Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Harrowby Hall on July 01, 2015, 04:31:29 PM
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Sir Nicholas Winton has died at the age of 106.
He organised the rescue of nearly 700 Jewish children from occupied Czchoslovakia at the brink of WW2. He organised their journey to the United Kingdom and found homes for them.
His passing leaves us all poorer.
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A great man, interviewed by the BBC only recently as it happens.
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A good man indeed. He should have been given a peerage, not just a knighthood!
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A man worthy of the greatest respect.
Sir Nicholas - may your path to the Summerlands be smooth and bright and your stay peaceful
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Surely Schindler should have been "The German Winton"?
Not diminishing his remarkable achievements, but Schindler did make money out of some of the arrangements he made.
Winton did not.
What he did, he did in a true, unalloyed spirit of humanity, and his humility is an example to all.
Righteous among the nations.
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... all that and an atheist too ;)
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Surely Schindler should have been "The German Winton"?
Not diminishing his remarkable achievements, but Schindler did make money out of some of the arrangements he made.
Winton did not.
What he did, he did in a true, unalloyed spirit of humanity, and his humility is an example to all.
Righteous among the nations.
So are you suggesting that making money is wrong, Jim? If I remember, Schindler ensured that muh of what his Jews produced was actually of poor quality or simply didn't work.
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Surely Schindler should have been "The German Winton"?
Not diminishing his remarkable achievements, but Schindler did make money out of some of the arrangements he made.
Winton did not.
What he did, he did in a true, unalloyed spirit of humanity, and his humility is an example to all.
Righteous among the nations.
So are you suggesting that making money is wrong, Jim? If I remember, Schindler ensured that muh of what his Jews produced was actually of poor quality or simply didn't work.
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No.
I'm suggesting that Winton's achievements outshone those of Schindler.
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Righteous among the nations.
Indeed. However, although he was brought up a Christian, Sir Nicholas' ancestors were Jewish and the state of Israel has denied him that appellation.
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Surely Schindler should have been "The German Winton"?
Not diminishing his remarkable achievements, but Schindler did make money out of some of the arrangements he made.
Winton did not.
What he did, he did in a true, unalloyed spirit of humanity, and his humility is an example to all.
Righteous among the nations.
So are you suggesting that making money is wrong, Jim? If I remember, Schindler ensured that muh of what his Jews produced was actually of poor quality or simply didn't work.
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No.
I'm suggesting that Winton's achievements outshone those of Schindler.
I would dispute this strongly.
Sir Nicholas was, without doubt, a man worthy of great respect for what he did - over 800 children rescued from Prague in 1939.
Now, it is that date that is important. It is before the war had actually started, before the crystalisation of the 'Final solution to the Jewish Question'.
Schindler's factory was taken over by the Nazi's to produce goods for the German Army, pots, pans and shells among other things. His factory and workforce were moved to Auschwitz, I think, and it he used his contacts to do the best he could to keep his Jewish workforce from harm. He himself was under investigation by the Gestapo on more than one occasion and was lucky to survive by using Nazi's that he knew far too much about who were terriffied of what he might say if he were tortured.
As to charging the Jews to get them out, Schindler died destitute, he used the money he collected to pay bribes to the Nazi's to get his people out.
Please do not belittle Schindler because he was German and, initially a Nazi and a profiteer, his later conversion is thus all the more remarkable, or build up Sir Nicholas because he was British, they both deserve the greatest respect for what they accomplished.
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No.
I'm suggesting that Winton's achievements outshone those of Schindler.
I would dispute this strongly.
Sir Nicholas was, without doubt, a man worthy of great respect for what he did - over 800 children rescued from Prague in 1939.
Now, it is that date that is important. It is before the war had actually started, before the crystalisation of the 'Final solution to the Jewish Question'.
Schindler's factory was taken over by the Nazi's to produce goods for the German Army, pots, pans and shells among other things. His factory and workforce were moved to Auschwitz, I think, and it he used his contacts to do the best he could to keep his Jewish workforce from harm. He himself was under investigation by the Gestapo on more than one occasion and was lucky to survive by using Nazi's that he knew far too much about who were terriffied of what he might say if he were tortured.
As to charging the Jews to get them out, Schindler died destitute, he used the money he collected to pay bribes to the Nazi's to get his people out.
Please do not belittle Schindler because he was German and, initially a Nazi and a profiteer, his later conversion is thus all the more remarkable, or build up Sir Nicholas because he was British, they both deserve the greatest respect for what they accomplished.
Matt, I would have to agree with you. In the big picture, what they both did was worthy of the greatest of respect. However to suggest that one's actions 'outshone' the actions of the other is to miss the point. The contexts of the two sets of actions were so different as to put them on two different planes in my view and therefore not truly comparable. Rather, they were both actions of great humanitarian value.
Mind you, I wonder whether Winton's actions would make quite as compelling a film as Schindler's? ;) ;D
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Both are examples of great humanity and are humbling to consider. Both responded to the circumstances they found themselves in with actions that one doubts one would have the courage or foresight to do (but I, for one, doubt myself). Surely beyond that comparisons are odious?
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This is quite a moving video about him
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c0aoifNziKQ
He looks in good shape for someone who was 104 at the time of the interview.
He never told his story until much later, because he said he believed in looking to the future rather than the past.
I suppose he is right, do we think of getting children out from under the feet of Isis for example?
I guess that would be following his example.
🌹
A wonderful man, an inspiration to us all on how to make the world a better place.