Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 12:36:52 PM

Title: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 12:36:52 PM
If I understand this correctly, the argument is that the BBC shouldn't be doing anything that commercial organisations can or already do.  If this is the case, is there anything that a revamped BBC should be doing? 
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: jeremyp on July 16, 2015, 12:42:56 PM
If I understand this correctly, the argument is that the BBC shouldn't be doing anything that commercial organisations can or already do.  If this is the case, is there anything that a revamped BBC should be doing?

I don't accept it is the case. 
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 01:21:59 PM
If I understand this correctly, the argument is that the BBC shouldn't be doing anything that commercial organisations can or already do.  If this is the case, is there anything that a revamped BBC should be doing?

I don't accept it is the case.
How do you understand the review as announced this morning - with all advisors involved being known to be anti-BBC.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: jeremyp on July 16, 2015, 01:39:12 PM
How do you understand the review as announced this morning - with all advisors involved being known to be anti-BBC.

I understand it as a stitch up of the BBC because all the advisors are known to be anti-BBC.  That is why I do not accept it is the case that " the BBC shouldn't be doing anything that commercial organisations can or already do".



Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: floo on July 16, 2015, 02:06:12 PM
I just hope they don't remove the licence fee and import ghastly ads!
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: wigginhall on July 16, 2015, 02:11:17 PM
Here come the vandals. 
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 16, 2015, 02:13:42 PM
I suspect that our methods of consuming such media in the future will change fast enough to make such decisions before the govt.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Gordon on July 16, 2015, 02:30:12 PM
I heard a radio interview recently, in the run up to this, in which a chap was bemoaning that the BBC web-site was 'too good' and was without adverts, and that this was 'unfair' - presumably he'd prefer it that we either pay for a news website or wade through those that have more adverts than articles.       
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 02:34:36 PM
I suspect that most of us here would rather that the BBC remained more or less as it is at present.  What changes would we accept?
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: ProfessorDavey on July 16, 2015, 02:36:27 PM
I heard a radio interview recently, in the run up to this, in which a chap was bemoaning that the BBC web-site was 'too good' and was without adverts, and that this was 'unfair' - presumably he'd prefer it that we either pay for a news website or wade through those that have more adverts than articles.     
Yes and the commercial broadcasters - most notably Sky, cannot abide the funding model for the BBC. So they'd prefer an overall inferior offering to viewers, listeners and web users where quality is sacrificed on the alter of commercial free-marketism.

And Sky can decide to offer the best web-site around - sure it would cost and might mean that they have to give up their franchise for premier league football. But the flip side is that as a public service broadcaster funded largely through the licence fee the BBC cannot justify trying to compete with Sky on premier league football. Horses for courses.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: floo on July 16, 2015, 03:07:40 PM
I suspect that most of us here would rather that the BBC remained more or less as it is at present.  What changes would we accept?

The commercial channels can have all the progs I have no wish to watch! ;D
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 16, 2015, 03:08:45 PM
Agree with no ads and independence of the BBC.

Don't see why BBC needs to provide "entertainment" (soaps, chat, sport, murder mysteries, mainstream movies etc ...) where this is perfectly well handled by commercial channels.

Funding could be mixed, why rely on license mechanism? (in fact it is already mixed).

Needs to move away from broadcasting to exploiting interactive media - why isn't it hosting the public debate on the charter review rather than twitter etc ? - because it has reduced it's forum/debate capability to mush.

The first point in the current charter's set of "public purposes" is "Sustaining citizenship and civil society"
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 16, 2015, 03:24:50 PM
If you get rid of entertainment surely the BBC is then surely just a news provider?


I am less and less bothered with the idea that it disappears, in part because I think funding it will become an impossibility.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 03:37:51 PM
Agree with no ads and independence of the BBC.

Don't see why BBC needs to provide "entertainment" (soaps, chat, sport, murder mysteries, mainstream movies etc ...) where this is perfectly well handled by commercial channels.

Funding could be mixed, why rely on license mechanism? (in fact it is already mixed).
The BBC provide funds for a number of small films that commercial groups have refused to support - and which often end up as successes.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Films

Quote
Needs to move away from broadcasting to exploiting interactive media - why isn't it hosting the public debate on the charter review rather than twitter etc ? - because it has reduced it's forum/debate capability to mush.
It is hosting a debate about it - today's Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show for instance.  It couldn't stop any debte on any other form of social media.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Aruntraveller on July 16, 2015, 03:48:29 PM
Just as a general point - we pay an astonishingly extortionate* £2.79 per week per household for the BBC at the current licence fee cost.

You pay more than that through your weekly shop for the adverts that help to keep commercial TV going - and don't forget your SKY subscription too.

As someone once sang:

"Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone."
*Heavy sarcasm alert
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 16, 2015, 03:50:13 PM
There is still plenty of non-news that needs public support: Art, culture, science, education, history, children's programs, documentaries, comedy ... many areas where commercial services don't or couldn't do a good job.

It could still make ... Eastenders, Strictly, Master chef etc and sell for broadcast on commercial channels (as it already does with many repeat programs) and/or allow download/streaming on an ad-free subscription basis.



Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 03:55:00 PM
Just as a general point - we pay an astonishingly extortionate* £2.79 per week per household for the BBC at the current licence fee cost.

You pay more than that through your weekly shop for the adverts that help to keep commercial TV going - and don't forget your SKY subscription too.
Apparently, the existing commercial/advertising pot barely suffices for the existing needs oif ITV, Sky, Channels 4 & 5, etc.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 16, 2015, 03:56:12 PM
...
It is hosting a debate about it - today's Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show for instance.  It couldn't stop any debte on any other form of social media.

In this day and age with the web etc I really can't regard a Jeremy Vines phone in as a "debate"... or even the phone in programmes on Radio 5.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 04:00:56 PM
...
It is hosting a debate about it - today's Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show for instance.  It couldn't stop any debte on any other form of social media.

In this day and age with the web etc I really can't regard a Jeremy Vines phone in as a "debate"... or even the phone in programmes on Radio 5.
Surely debates are all about people sharing their opinions, Ud.  Whether it's in 142 characters or over a minute or so via the telephone, being broadcast to the nation, aren't they debates?  Aren't we having one here?
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 16, 2015, 04:04:33 PM
Just as a general point - we pay an astonishingly extortionate* £2.79 per week per household for the BBC at the current licence fee cost.

You pay more than that through your weekly shop for the adverts that help to keep commercial TV going - and don't forget your SKY subscription too.

As someone once sang:

"Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone."
*Heavy sarcasm alert

I wouldn't want it slashed to make way for Sky etc but only for it to improve output, provide what is needed and move on. What's the point of repeating Dads Army forever when you could screen it on Dave or Gold, or just allow downloads for those that want keep viewing it?

Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: L.A. on July 16, 2015, 04:18:29 PM
If I understand this correctly, the argument is that the BBC shouldn't be doing anything that commercial organisations can or already do.  If this is the case, is there anything that a revamped BBC should be doing?

The BEEB has undergone a tremendous expansion in recent years, spending huge amounts on prestigious productions and it's website, so I think it is quite reasonable to question whether this should all be paid for by what is essentially a tax.

Personally, I would like to see the BEEB cut-down somewhat. Maybe sell-off Radio One and some of their 'blockbuster' TV productions and concentrate on nurturing new talent and material.

Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 16, 2015, 04:19:57 PM
...
It is hosting a debate about it - today's Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show for instance.  It couldn't stop any debte on any other form of social media.

In this day and age with the web etc I really can't regard a Jeremy Vines phone in as a "debate"... or even the phone in programmes on Radio 5.
Surely debates are all about people sharing their opinions, Ud.  Whether it's in 142 characters or over a minute or so via the telephone, being broadcast to the nation, aren't they debates?  Aren't we having one here?

Yes, this is more of a debate - because it's possible to follow arguments, rather than being a series of sound bites. QT, for example, is good, but still does not get down to the details of any issue - because it can't in that format.

But can we regard a discussion here as a "public" debate? - a platform of national scope is needed.

The BBC should resurrect its message board capability and allow discussion of programmes, politics etc ("Sustaining citizenship and civil society") and engage with the public - eg by using volunteer/elected moderators rather than try to control everything itself.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: ippy on July 16, 2015, 06:31:33 PM
I'd like to see Ofcom take over from the present cosy in house BBC trust arrangement.

ippy

   
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 16, 2015, 07:15:24 PM
There is still plenty of non-news that needs public support: Art, culture, science, education, history, children's programs, documentaries, comedy ... many areas where commercial services don't or couldn't do a good job.

It could still make ... Eastenders, Strictly, Master chef etc and sell for broadcast on commercial channels (as it already does with many repeat programs) and/or allow download/streaming on an ad-free subscription basis.

This just feels like subsidising your taste.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 16, 2015, 07:17:06 PM
The BBC should resurrect its message board capability and allow discussion of programmes, politics etc ("Sustaining citizenship and civil society") and engage with the public - eg by using volunteer/elected moderators rather than try to control everything itself.
IIRC, they cut these facilities because of reduced funding as a result of the last charter review.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: jeremyp on July 16, 2015, 07:44:23 PM
I heard a radio interview recently, in the run up to this, in which a chap was bemoaning that the BBC web-site was 'too good' and was without adverts, and that this was 'unfair'

Well obviously.  The right of the newspaper publisher that he is almost certainly linked with to make money off us trumps our right to have accurate and unbiased news.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: jeremyp on July 16, 2015, 07:48:07 PM
...
It is hosting a debate about it - today's Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show for instance.  It couldn't stop any debte on any other form of social media.

In this day and age with the web etc I really can't regard a Jeremy Vines phone in as a "debate"... or even the phone in programmes on Radio 5.

But in comparison with Twitter...
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Harrowby Hall on July 17, 2015, 09:00:09 AM
It is in the nature of British politicians to meddle with satisfactorily operating organisations in order to show that they are in control. You have only to look at the number of reorganisations and "initiatives" taken in the NHS. Some, after a change in governing party, before any opportunity for the previous changes to show any effect.

It happens with education, too. We now have a Secretary of State who is so mathematically illiterate that she considers it possible for all schools to be "above average".

The BBC is equally vulnerable. Changes to the BBC may well be the result of politicians taking part in a hairy chest competition.

I would not suggest that the BBC should not subject to critical examination, but there is something which the meddling politicians ought to consider. The BBC is probably the only British brand which isn't just world class - but top world class. Any reduction in the world's perception of the BBC will directly affect the perception of Britain itself.

We have a government system that believes that the highest artistic, cultural and intellectual achievement of human kind has been the invention of cost accounting. And we have a prime minister who barely adequate to the task of governing, who is more concerned with the state of his party than of the nation. He is constantly looking over his shoulder - in fear of the paeliolithic throwbacks his party always attracts.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on July 17, 2015, 09:04:04 AM
We have a government system that believes that the highest artistic, cultural and intellectual achievement of human kind has been the invention of cost accounting.
I thought it thought that the 'highest artistic, cultural and intellectual achievement of human kind has been the invention of' creative accounting   ;)

Quote
And we have a prime minister who barely adequate to the task of governing, who is more concerned with the state of his party than of the nation. He is constantly looking over his shoulder - in fear of the paeliolithic throwbacks his party always attracts.
So, no different to any of the Prime Ministers who have held the post since Harold Wilson!!
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 17, 2015, 10:17:35 AM
There is still plenty of non-news that needs public support: Art, culture, science, education, history, children's programs, documentaries, comedy ... many areas where commercial services don't or couldn't do a good job.

It could still make ... Eastenders, Strictly, Master chef etc and sell for broadcast on commercial channels (as it already does with many repeat programs) and/or allow download/streaming on an ad-free subscription basis.

This just feels like subsidising your taste.

We should subsidise stuff that needs subsidising, not what is already commercially viable.  The BBC was originally set up to fund the creation of the broadcasting infrastructure that otherwise would not have been viable at the time. Later there was the BBC micro, digital, BSkyB, etc
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 17, 2015, 10:23:29 AM
The BBC should resurrect its message board capability and allow discussion of programmes, politics etc ("Sustaining citizenship and civil society") and engage with the public - eg by using volunteer/elected moderators rather than try to control everything itself.
IIRC, they cut these facilities because of reduced funding as a result of the last charter review.

Maybe, but imo it was a retreat backwards to their comfort zone.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 17, 2015, 10:28:18 AM
...
It is hosting a debate about it - today's Jeremy Vine's Radio 2 show for instance.  It couldn't stop any debte on any other form of social media.

In this day and age with the web etc I really can't regard a Jeremy Vines phone in as a "debate"... or even the phone in programmes on Radio 5.

But in comparison with Twitter...

Well it's Rona Fairhead herself (BBC Trust Chairman) that has suggested the BBC should host a "proper public debate" on twitter.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/online/bbc-should-host-twitter-debate-about-its-new-charter-10021614.html
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Udayana on July 25, 2015, 06:35:57 PM
They have launched a survey for input to the charter review:

https://consultations.external.bbc.co.uk/bbc/tomorrows-bbc
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Gonnagle on July 25, 2015, 08:09:43 PM
Dear Harrowby,

Post 27, excellent post, there is another poster on here ( forgot his name, seems like an intelligent sort ) who is repeatedly telling anyone who will listen that the Tory party are anti British.

Gonnagle.
Title: Re: BBC Charter Review
Post by: Hope on August 01, 2015, 09:18:07 PM
Just caught the end of the National Lottery Show.  2 questions, at least.  Does this need to be on the BBC?  Who pays for the prizes - the British public through the licence fee or Camaelot?  On a wider note, who pays for the prize money for other quiz programmes?  Again is the licence fee payers, or is something like Pointless self-funding through sales of the programme and/or concept to other broadcasters?