Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on August 24, 2015, 10:40:00 PM

Title: The other shoe
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 24, 2015, 10:40:00 PM
Anyone with a pension based on equity, it all gets worse. We have lost what was hoped for on the giant Ponzi scheme.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Hope on August 24, 2015, 11:04:15 PM
Anyone with a pension based on equity, it all gets worse. We have lost what was hoped for on the giant Ponzi scheme.
But, then, we've just been enjoying a vibrant bull market, whereby the pensions were growing unexpectedly.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 24, 2015, 11:11:25 PM
Anyone with a pension based on equity, it all gets worse. We have lost what was hoped for on the giant Ponzi scheme.
But, then, we've just been enjoying a vibrant bull market, whereby the pensions were growing unexpectedly.
depends on definition of time, but the last twenty five years have had no growth.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 24, 2015, 11:15:51 PM
Actually no, there has not been a huge market growth for anyone in the UK? Care to cite, Hope. But given that the market in the UK is now less than it was 20 years ago - tell me about what you think it is a bull market?
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: jeremyp on August 24, 2015, 11:48:49 PM
Anyone with a pension based on equity, it all gets worse. We have lost what was hoped for on the giant Ponzi scheme.
But, then, we've just been enjoying a vibrant bull market, whereby the pensions were growing unexpectedly.
depends on definition of time, but the last twenty five years have had no growth.

Well my pension must have bucked the trend then.

Or perhaps you exaggerate.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 25, 2015, 05:50:14 AM


Well my pension must have bucked the trend then.

Or perhaps you exaggerate.

Yes, indeed I did, it's twenty not twenty five years since in the UK we have had a flat stock market, and there has been growth elsewhere if one was invested
 The growth though other than in some of the other markets has been in comparison to the previous hundred years at a low level. To have the main (for the majority of UK investors) investment market flat for 20 years and currently falling will have an effect on all our pensions.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Hope on August 25, 2015, 06:23:27 AM
Actually no, there has not been a huge market growth for anyone in the UK? Care to cite, Hope. But given that the market in the UK is now less than it was 20 years ago - tell me about what you think it is a bull market?
Actually, over parts of a 25 year period, growth has been bigger than we sometimes realise.  The problem has been the massive drop in growth that resulted from the financial crash of the mid-noughties that wiped out the growth of the previous 10-15 years.  For the last year or so, the world's stock markets have been doing 'very well, thank you' based on the double-figure growth that China has been experiencing.  However, the last 7-10 days have seen a massive crash in that economy, and hence in the confidence of markets around the world, resulting in hundreds of billions of pounds'-worth of value being wiped off those markets.  Your and my pensions are heavily tied into the values of those stock markets.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 25, 2015, 06:55:47 AM
Most of your money will be in the UK stock market which has been static for 20 years and had no significant growth in the last year. There is not a bull market in the US. The Chinese stock market has been volatile rather than a bull market in the last year.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: jeremyp on August 25, 2015, 07:59:17 AM


Yes, indeed I did, it's twenty not twenty five years since in the UK we have had a flat stock market, and there has been growth elsewhere if one was invested

Pension funds do not necessarily track the stock market.  The FTSE indexes don't index much except the London Stock Exchange.

Quote
To have the main (for the majority of UK investors) investment market flat for 20 years and currently falling will have an effect on all our pensions.

Which index are you using, by the way?
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: jeremyp on August 25, 2015, 08:02:46 AM
Most of your money will be in the UK stock market which has been static for 20 years

No it hasn't.

I distinctly recall it crashing in 2008/9 and losing nearly half it's value and then recovering to previous levels over the next few years.  That is not static.  A good (or lucky) pension fund manager would have made a packet on that.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Hope on August 25, 2015, 09:04:14 AM
Most of your money will be in the UK stock market which has been static for 20 years and had no significant growth in the last year. There is not a bull market in the US. The Chinese stock market has been volatile rather than a bull market in the last year.
OK, if that's the case, perhaps you ought to inform the BBC's and other media outlets' financial commentators who have been pontificating on the issue in recent days.  In fact, I used the term 'bull market' because it had just been used by one of said commentators on the BBC's Radio News.
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Sassy on September 07, 2015, 11:14:00 AM
Anyone with a pension based on equity, it all gets worse. We have lost what was hoped for on the giant Ponzi scheme.
I have a pension which has been with a company for over 30 years how will that work out?
Title: Re: The other shoe
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 07, 2015, 11:24:17 AM
Anyone with a pension based on equity, it all gets worse. We have lost what was hoped for on the giant Ponzi scheme.
I have a pension which has been with a company for over 30 years how will that work out?

Difficult to say without looking at the individual risk spread and the type of pensionyou have but if it is mainly in UK equities you would have a reasonable return for the first ten years, then it would have been relatively static. At base pensions are posited on continuing growth. That is not guaranteed, and while I admit to having been somewhat   doommongering with the OP, we cannot assume that growth will continue. Further the crash of 2007, has not lead to any real changes in the banking system and much of the problems that caused that are likely to re-emerge