Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on September 01, 2015, 05:34:19 PM
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Hi everyone,
Here is a BBC article on schooling, bullying and suicide in Japan.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34105044
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"My school uniform felt so heavy as if I was in armour," said Masa, who was bullied as soon as he started high school.
"I couldn't bear the school's ambience and my heart was pounding. I thought about killing myself, because that would have been easier."
Masa, which is not his real name, had an understanding mother who did not force him to go to school. Otherwise, he wrote for a newspaper for children who refuse to attend school, "I would have chosen to kill myself on 1 September when the new semester started".
Masa was not alone in thinking so bleakly in Japan, which has one of the world's highest suicide rates.
Last year, for the first time, the most common cause of death of those aged 10 to 19 in Japan was suicide.
And according to the cabinet office, 1 September is historically the day the largest number of children under 18 have taken their own lives.
Between 1972 and 2013, of the 18,048 children who killed themselves, on average 92 did so on 31 August, 131 on 1 September and 94 on 2 September.
The numbers were also high in early April when the first semester begins in the Japanese school calendar.
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Any views?
Sriram
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Hi everyone,
Here is a BBC article on schooling, bullying and suicide in Japan.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34105044
******************************************************************
"My school uniform felt so heavy as if I was in armour," said Masa, who was bullied as soon as he started high school.
"I couldn't bear the school's ambience and my heart was pounding. I thought about killing myself, because that would have been easier."
Masa, which is not his real name, had an understanding mother who did not force him to go to school. Otherwise, he wrote for a newspaper for children who refuse to attend school, "I would have chosen to kill myself on 1 September when the new semester started".
Masa was not alone in thinking so bleakly in Japan, which has one of the world's highest suicide rates.
Last year, for the first time, the most common cause of death of those aged 10 to 19 in Japan was suicide.
And according to the cabinet office, 1 September is historically the day the largest number of children under 18 have taken their own lives.
Between 1972 and 2013, of the 18,048 children who killed themselves, on average 92 did so on 31 August, 131 on 1 September and 94 on 2 September.
The numbers were also high in early April when the first semester begins in the Japanese school calendar.
*****************************************************************
Any views?
Sriram
Any views?
Yes, of course!
Any suicide, at any age, of either sex, anywhere in the world, for any reason, is a waste of a life, a demonstration of a lack of available help, medical or mental.
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Any views?
Yes, of course!
Any suicide, at any age, of either sex, anywhere in the world, for any reason, is a waste of a life, a demonstration of a lack of available help, medical or mental.
I don't think that's true at all. For a start, who is to claim that somebody else's life is a waste, rather than one's own? Sure, you can make that judgement about your own life, but that of another? I don't believe so, since it's not your life and you're not in possession of all the facts.
Such a sweeping generalisation doesn't take into account the context of the suicide, either. I don't think Ernest Hemingway's life was wasted, for example - he adhered to Nietzsche's dictum of dying at the right time.
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Any suicide, at any age, of either sex, anywhere in the world, for any reason, is a waste of a life, a demonstration of a lack of available help, medical or mental.
Not sure I'd go with that as a stand-alone statement, but in this instance it does seem deplorable that the situation should have been allowed to get to this point.
In general, there are times and situations where it makes sense for someone to be able to say 'I've had enough', and if there truly isn't anything we can do to improve their situation then maybe they're right. In this instance, though, it seems as though there was probably plenty that could have been done.
So sad :(
O.
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Obviously, it is well within the capabilities of the Japanese themselves to address the underlying cultural issues here and fix the problem, so what is stopping them doing it?
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I truly cannot understand how anyone could consider that the only solution to a ten-year-old's problems could be suicide. Or anyone of any other age for that matter.
The main reason people commit suicide is that they feel that there is no-one who can help, no-one they can turn to, and quite often before they have tried to find anyone - they are so isolated that the thought of speaking to someone is not an option.
How many times have the family of a suicide said that they had no idea their the relative was so troubled?
What makes anyone so separated from everyone around them that they think they don't care?
Would they have committed suicide if they could see the effect of their death upon their family?
I, and this, of course, is only my personal opinion, cannot see how suicide can ever be the only answer.
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I truly cannot understand how anyone could consider that the only solution to a ten-year-old's problems could be suicide. Or anyone of any other age for that matter.
The main reason people commit suicide is that they feel that there is no-one who can help, no-one they can turn to, and quite often before they have tried to find anyone - they are so isolated that the thought of speaking to someone is not an option.
How many times have the family of a suicide said that they had no idea their the relative was so troubled?
What makes anyone so separated from everyone around them that they think they don't care?
Would they have committed suicide if they could see the effect of their death upon their family?
I, and this, of course, is only my personal opinion, cannot see how suicide can ever be the only answer.
That depends on whether you believe that competent consenting adults are exactly that, and that people own themselves and their own lives, as I do. This wouldn't apply to many ten year olds, I agree, but to adults it certainly does.
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I truly cannot understand how anyone could consider that the only solution to a ten-year-old's problems could be suicide. Or anyone of any other age for that matter.
The main reason people commit suicide is that they feel that there is no-one who can help, no-one they can turn to, and quite often before they have tried to find anyone - they are so isolated that the thought of speaking to someone is not an option.
How many times have the family of a suicide said that they had no idea their the relative was so troubled?
What makes anyone so separated from everyone around them that they think they don't care?
Would they have committed suicide if they could see the effect of their death upon their family?
I, and this, of course, is only my personal opinion, cannot see how suicide can ever be the only answer.
It's never the only answer - I can quite easily conceive of situations where it will be best solution, though I'm not for a moment suggesting that this situation was one of them.
I'm reasonably independent, I value my intellect and my capacity - although I'm married, and I'm aware that my wife is willing to look after me in the hard times, we're both of the opinion (having had disabled children) that being a carer isn't the same as being family.
Should I ever get to the point where I feel I'm a burden on my wife, where it starts to change the relationship we have to the point where she's longer a companion out of mutual gain but out of duty and pity, I'd want it to stop. I don't want to poison what we have by turning her into a nurse, and I'm confident she feels the same way.
In such a situation, hopefully many, many years away yet, I'd like for an option to be available. Why use up our children's inheritance and our partner's few remaining years on a substandard, unenjoyable existence? I don't suggest that it should even be suggested to other people in that situation, but for someone else to tell me that I have to live, to tell my wife that she either has to become a nurse for a dribbling idiot or abandon the man she loves is an horrific destiny.
O.
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People who are against suicide - assisted or otherwise - always wheel out the argument that people who feel themselves to be a burden will feel pressurised to do away with themselves.
I'm significantly less concerned about becoming a burden to others than becoming a burden to myself. If that point is ever reached, I'd certainly be taking a dirt nap. As Outrider rightly said:
In general, there are times and situations where it makes sense for someone to be able to say 'I've had enough', and if there truly isn't anything we can do to improve their situation then maybe they're right.
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This article goes some way to explaining the problems specific to Japan. It doesn't make it clear however, that (as I understand it) at the end of a child's education they get to take one exam with a grade necessary to get them into one college, which then guarantees their job for life. Fail and there is no college, or at least not a good one; there is the 'shame' of resits and reduced career prospects and a less prosperous future.
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/23/world/in-japan-even-toddlers-feel-the-pressure-to-excel.html?pagewanted=1
It scares the living daylights out of me every time our muppet governments look to 'achievement levels' in Japanese schools and elsewhere in the Far East and mutter about this being something we should emulate.
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I still see no situation that would be acceptable as a explantion of a ten-year-old committing suicide!
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http://counselingcenter.utk.edu/self-help-materials/the-issue-of-suicide/
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http://counselingcenter.utk.edu/self-help-materials/the-issue-of-suicide/
University of Tennessee!
Find something relevant to Japan!
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It scares the living daylights out of me every time our muppet governments look to 'achievement levels' in Japanese schools and elsewhere in the Far East and mutter about this being something we should emulate.
The 'much-loved' PISA test is based very much on Maths, Science, and Reading. The first two are basically - 'there is a single answer', whilst reading is all about accuracy. Some Eastern cultures have a distinct advantage over us Brits (and some other language groups) as their languages reflect the structure of Maths. For instance, in Korean, the number 21 is said '2 tens and 1', meaning that adding two such numbers is much easier than our rather more complicated naming of such numbers. There are other examples I could give from other languages (see Chapter 8 of Malcolm Gladwell's book - "Outliers - The Story of Success") Furthermore, Eastern education is very much about regurgitation of information in the same way as it went in. Here in the UK, our education system is much more 'use your own words', thus putting us at a further disadvantage as far as PISA is concerned, but at least on a par with Eastern students when it comes to creativity.
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http://counselingcenter.utk.edu/self-help-materials/the-issue-of-suicide/
University of Tennessee!
Find something relevant to Japan!
The link was relevant to any school related suicide and an interesting read IMV.
Thanks JC.
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http://counselingcenter.utk.edu/self-help-materials/the-issue-of-suicide/
University of Tennessee!
Find something relevant to Japan!
The link was relevant to any school related suicide and an interesting read IMV.
Thanks JC.
Including ten yera olds!
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You have a problem with the University of Tennessee dear angry Matty? What University did you graduate from? You have a problem with the article? Where do you disagree with the author? What studies have you conducted on suicide Matty? I have traveled through that great state, it's beautiful and the people are friendly. Even though you mock one of their universities, they would treat you well should you ever visit there. If you had been adult enough to actually read the article I think you would like it for the most part. Give it a try, I won't kill ya.
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I still see no situation that would be acceptable as a explantion of a ten-year-old committing suicide!
Mental health problems? We have depressed and suicidal children here too.
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You! Kill me?
1 - I doubt that you have the guts even to try!
2 - I doubt that you have the skills to succeed!
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O my World dearest matty! Spending the day staring at a monkey on a rock is a more productive thing for one to do than reading your posts.
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Hi everyone,
Somehow the reactions on here are not the same as I had expected. It seems to be more of a 'is suicide wrong' argument rather than about a systemic failure in preventing children from committing suicide. The reaction seems muted.
Just imagine for a moment that the same number of school children committed suicide in India or in a muslim country....would the reactions on here be the same or would it be more angry, vociferous and indignant.....I wonder?!
Cheers.
Sriram