Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Hope on September 15, 2015, 08:19:10 AM
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I'll start off by pointing out that, though I have used the term in the thread title, I really dislike the current way the media are talking about 'Team Corbyn'. Did we ever get reference to 'Team Miliband', 'Team Cameron', 'Team Blair', etc ?
When John McDonnell was announced as the new Shadow Chancellor, the reporter on one channel I heard immediately referred to his previously stated intention of nationalising the banks.
What possible other policies have already been indicated by members of this new Shadow Cabinet - either in 'previous lives' or since the weekend?
By the way, what is the real purpose of nationalising the banks?
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Heaven help the UK if the nasty 'team corbyn' ever get voted into power! Communism will reign supreme, imo! >:( >:( >:(
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::)
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Heaven help the UK if the nasty 'team corbyn' ever get voted into power! Communism will reign supreme, imo! >:( >:( >:(
You have no idea about what communism is
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A game where you have to sing "The Red Flag" to the tune of the "The National Anthem"? :D
That's the only way the British electorate will vote them in!
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Heaven help the UK if the nasty 'team corbyn' ever get voted into power! Communism will reign supreme, imo! >:( >:( >:(
You have no idea about what communism is
Yes I do! ::)
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Go on then.
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I was just reading he has appointed some vegan women in a most unsuitable place :o
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11865225/Jeremy-Corbyn-puts-vegan-in-change-of-farming-policy.html
I want to laugh it's so ridiculous!
Or cry, not sure which.
Ok move on, the guy is a bigger Muppet than the last one. :o
Farmers are just going to love her!
Bloody hell!
So people should be denied certain jobs because they are vegans?
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Great, she sounds supremely unsuitable!
"She caused controversy in 2012 after branding a fellow train passenger a "lager drinking oaf" and suggesting he should "have been killed before he could breed" after being irritated by a man playing loud techno music on a train and wearing a T-shirt bearing an obscene message.
She later admitted the comments about breeding were "obviously flippant" but it was a strange outburst from someone who used to serve as Labour's social media tsar."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-appoints-a-vegan-to-deal-with-britains-farmers-10500157.html
If we stopped everyone who had ever said anything stupid in that way from being in the cabinet we'd have The Who's Tommy, Monty the Downing St cat and a vague feeling of ennui as its entire members
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I was just reading he has appointed some vegan women in a most unsuitable place :o
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11865225/Jeremy-Corbyn-puts-vegan-in-change-of-farming-policy.html
I want to laugh it's so ridiculous!
Or cry, not sure which.
Ok move on, the guy is a bigger Muppet than the last one. :o
Farmers are just going to love her!
Bloody hell!
So people should be denied certain jobs because they are vegans?
Not necessarily, but in a society that still sees veganism as something of a fringe/extremist position, it carries overtones of its own. Certainly I can see the Daily Mail talking up 'Team Corbyn's' lentil-eating veggie-lefty credentails off the back of it.
Does anyone know what the motivation of her veganism is?
O.
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Not necessarily, but in a society that still sees veganism as something of a fringe/extremist position, it carries overtones of its own. Certainly I can see the Daily Mail talking up 'Team Corbyn's' lentil-eating veggie-lefty credentails off the back of it.
Does anyone know what the motivation of her veganism is?
O.
That argument would also once have applied to her being a woman.
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NS I don't even see what's stupid about it - I have had that thought more than once in my life. OK I might not have articulated it - but I've definitely thought it.
Rose - I am not seeing that she being a vegan is a bar to her serving as a farming minister - one of the most costly, ineffective uses of our land is livestock rearing - if she encourages a move away from that to more productive use of the land - more power to her elbow, I say. Although some people seem to be forgetting that we still have another 4+ years of the bastards that are in power now before any change is possible. I suggest you focus on all the broken promises from their election manifesto already becoming apparent, rather than worrying about the what-ifs' of a possible future Labour administration.
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Don't like this
"9. Rent controls should be re-introduced, linking private rents to local earnings, and more council houses should be built. He also believes that council tenants' right to buy their homes should be extended to private sector renters.
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Private landlords may not want to be forced to sell their properties! It's a bit to left wing that one, to dictorial.
Lots to be concerned with here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34209478
It's where to start!
I think getting private landlords to sell individual properties directly is a bit much, but I can see a situation where the state could be buying rented accomodation as it goes onto the market for addition to the council-controlled social housing provision.
I'm not in favour of 'right to buy', it's a big part of what got us into the situation where we have a dearth of social housing in the first place. If people can't afford to buy their own place on the open market that's what social housing is for - if we sell it this time we disregard the hard work of people who've bought at market value and lose the social housing provision for following generations.
We need to get over the idea that owning your own home is a right.
O.
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Not necessarily, but in a society that still sees veganism as something of a fringe/extremist position, it carries overtones of its own. Certainly I can see the Daily Mail talking up 'Team Corbyn's' lentil-eating veggie-lefty credentails off the back of it.
Does anyone know what the motivation of her veganism is?
O.
That argument would also once have applied to her being a woman.
I'm not sure it would have - certainly, wanting to be a women and a government minister might have been frowned upon, but being a woman isn't a viewpoint on an issue, it's a socio-biological reality. The only way the two could be equivalent is if you can explain someone's motivation for being a woman...?
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I was just reading he has appointed some vegan women in a most unsuitable place :o
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11865225/Jeremy-Corbyn-puts-vegan-in-change-of-farming-policy.html
I want to laugh it's so ridiculous!
Or cry, not sure which.
Ok move on, the guy is a bigger Muppet than the last one. :o
Farmers are just going to love her!
Bloody hell!
So people should be denied certain jobs because they are vegans?
They could not be a food critic for menus that contain meat.
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They should be denied certain jobs if they are well known for having such biased and strong veiws..... Yes!
She is an unsuitable choice IMO.
How is it 'biased'? Do you know why she's a vegan? Maybe it's a health issue? Even if it isn't, her likely respect for animal welfare doesn't invalidate her from the role, animal welfare is an important part of the remit of the department.
O.
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They should be denied certain jobs if they are well known for having such biased and strong veiws..... Yes!
She is an unsuitable choice IMO.
How is it 'biased'? Do you know why she's a vegan? Maybe it's a health issue? Even if it isn't, her likely respect for animal welfare doesn't invalidate her from the role, animal welfare is an important part of the remit of the department.
O.
I don't care why she is a vegan, what matters is whether she can do a good job and given her opinion on farmers, I don't think she can.
Unless you've got statements from her - not impossible, I admit - you are presuming her opinions based on the fact that she's a vegan. Politicians publicly promote policies that are out of keeping with their own personal sentiments all the time, that's because many of them see their role as to represent their constituents, not themselves.
Even then, a concern for animal welfare does not preclude her doing a good job, advocating good policies or standing up for important concerns in opposition. Even if she were to be the farming minister in government she would not be making policy alone.
O.
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But that's different, because a woman is what she is, she can't change that.
She is unsuitable because of her strong veiws in an area which involves her position and she can do real harm.
He couldn't have made a worse choice IMO.
It wasn't made in the best interests of farmers and their businesses, she is going to be prejudiced against them.
The things you can change argument doesn't work - it's a question of whether someone is suitable for a job - if you think someone is unsuitable, then it makes no difference if that is because of something they can change.
You seem to be arguing that a vegan must be against farming - surely that could apply to a meat eater if we are talking about arable farming?
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From what I have read on his support for hesbollah and his support for radical Muslim groups and his reported antisemitism, he doesn't sound too good.
Plus his policies.
Not sure I like the sound of him to be honest.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/jeremy-corbyn-to-appoint-a-special-minister-for-jews/
Still it's ages until the next election.
http://www.channel4.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-top-team-criticisms-over-lack-of-women
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11829462/Jeremy-Corbyn-must-publicly-reject-Hamas-and-Hezbollah-leading-Jewish-group-demands.html
It doesn't fill me with confidence.
So the first shadow cabinet with a majority of women worries you as not having enough women?
As to the top posts, that's surely notional - that we don't seem to regards Helth and Education as top posts says more about our structure than any criticism of Corbyn.
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It's a question of whether someone is suitable for the job and because of her very strong veiws, which are not inline with the job in hand or the rest of the country that makes her unsuitable. IMO.
No a meat eater doesn't have strong veiws about arable farming in the same way, you are being obtuse.
She is having to work with an industry which for a large part she doesn't seem to agree with, judging by the things she has done in the past.
We needed someone who could work with farmers, not put them more on edge by being anti.
How do you know what a meat eater has strong views on? All you are saying is you disagree with her. You have your view of what is right for farming - you suspect she disagrees with because she's a vegan. The minister for farming is not there to represent farmers but the electorate.
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"Anti-meat campaigner Kerry McCarthy was announced as the latest addition to the bearded socialist's Shadow Cabinet yesterday.
The 30-year-old has claimed eating meat causes world hunger – and even warned that farting cows harm the environment.
During a 2009 debate she told bemused MPs: "It sounds like a joke but flatulent and burping cows do have an impact on greenhouse gases."
Ukip MEP Stuart Agnew slammed her appointment at the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (DEFRA).
He said: "Only Jeremy Corbyn could select a vegan to represent the Labour Party on agricultural matters.
"Kerry McCarthy will have little in common with either the producers or consumers of food and would be better described as the Corbynist who would like DEFRA to be renamed the Department for Eradication of Farmers and Rural Areas."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/605241/Jeremy-Corbyn-vegan-Kerry-McCarthy-farms-agriculture-DEFRA-cows-Labour-leader
People who appear to hold radical POV's shouldn't be appointed to posts where they can do harm, IMO.
It's how dictators get in and how countries end up in a mess.
It doesn't matter if the person involved is right or left wing.
This one just happens to be a labour MP.
I'd say the same about a UKIP MP.
I would suggest saying people shouldn't be appointed to positions for being a vegan is radical and dictatorial
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It's how dictators get in and how countries end up in a mess.
eh??????
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People who appear to hold radical POV's shouldn't be appointed to posts where they can do harm, IMO.
One name
Ian Duncan Smith.
Whatever fate befalls our meat producing industry IF this woman is in a position to affect anything - is as nothing to the effect this truly deplorable human being is having on the ill and disabled in this country NOW. Please get a grip Rose.
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Well she isn't, she holds veiws that are incompatible with the role.
I would prefer to be represented by someone who is more moderate and can make improvements without being to biased.
What is right for farming?
Someone who can see all sides and do the best for us, the country, and it's farmers.
Someone moderate who is not driven by their emotions.
She doesn't fit the bill.
If I wanted her, I'd be voting for the "green" party, but not many people do, because that isn't what they want.
She holds views you deem as incompatible with the role . You seem awfully driven by emotion on this
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I don't see that being a vegan is a necessary bar to the post.
In the past the appropriate section of our wonderful press complained that Barbara Castle was an unsuitable candidate for Transport Minister since she didn't drive. I don't recall that - somewhat earlier - thay had complained that Ernie Marples was unsuitable for the same post since he had a family interest in a road-building firm.
She may be able to bring some clear thinking into the current nature of agriculture. The quantity of land used just for producing cattle feed is far, far greater than the quantity of land used for cattle rearing. Is this really justifiable? Endless square kilometres of maize and sorghum in places like the Beauce may look like arable farming, but it is really disguised meat production.
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That's because it isn't because she is a vegan it's more than that.
It's because of the things she comes out with and the other organisations she belongs to.
Which are?
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That's because it isn't because she is a vegan it's more than that.
It's because of the things she comes out with and the other organisations she belongs to.
Which are?
I have posted some of it already above.
An irrlevant comment about someone making noise on a train which I already commented on. As regrads methane production from cows, it's a perfectly serious issue - why do you think it isn't?
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Yes, the RSPCA used to be an organisation that helped neglected animals, now it's overrun with political extremists that waste donations on lengthy court battles and political issues.
I don't want to see the same happen with our MPs, that damages our country by forcing their personal choices on others.
This women appears to be anti meat, not just vegan.
Anti Dairy too by the sound of it.
No I don't want tree huggers and bunny lovers dominating our politics like they have the RSPCA.
MMM 'tree huggers and bunny lovers' - how unemotional.
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From what I have read on his support for hesbollah and his support for radical Muslim groups and his reported antisemitism, he doesn't sound too good.
Plus his policies.
Not sure I like the sound of him to be honest.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/jeremy-corbyn-to-appoint-a-special-minister-for-jews/
Still it's ages until the next election.
http://www.channel4.com/news/jeremy-corbyns-top-team-criticisms-over-lack-of-women
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11829462/Jeremy-Corbyn-must-publicly-reject-Hamas-and-Hezbollah-leading-Jewish-group-demands.html
It doesn't fill me with confidence.
So the first shadow cabinet with a majority of women worries you as not having enough women?
As to the top posts, that's surely notional - that we don't seem to regards Helth and Education as top posts says more about our structure than any criticism of Corbyn.
He doesn't 'support' Hesbollah or radical Muslim groups, but he does recognise that they are groups with power and influence and that as grown ups we need to talk to these people in order to achieve peace.
Why a Jewish faction should be able to demand he drop support for particular groups given Israel's continued occupation of lands in defiance of UN resolutions confuses me, to be honest, and the man has presumably addressed the criticisms over the 'lack of women' in his team, with his 50% female shadow cabinet.
O.
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And her green resolution?
Her grand " animal welfare" answer?
Perhaps she has a different one to killing them all?
A cork strategically placed?
Sorry, you seemed to have become so emotional that you have stopped making any form of sense? Are you saying that there no one should raise an issue without having a solution you agree with?
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I'm not nominated for the job.
She is.
But if you think being emotional affects one's judgment, how can you judge her?
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Yes, the RSPCA used to be an organisation that helped neglected animals, now it's overrun with political extremists that waste donations on lengthy court battles and political issues.
I don't want to see the same happen with our MPs, that damages our country by forcing their personal choices on others.
This women appears to be anti meat, not just vegan.
Anti Dairy too by the sound of it.
No I don't want tree huggers and bunny lovers dominating our politics like they have the RSPCA.
MMM 'tree huggers and bunny lovers' - how unemotional.
I hope you all realise you're being trolled - this is the same one who was going to go squealing to the mods because she thought people were encouraging a poster to commit suicide ::)
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Who trolleth the troll?
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Rose
All you need to know about IDS
http://www.welfareweekly.com/iain-duncan-smiths-directory-death/
I realise that this isn't all your fault as this thread wasn't started by you - but I think worrying about an MP who is in a position in the shadow cabinet now - who almost certainly won't be in the same position in 4 years time even if (and this is a big if) the Labour Party form the next government is pointless - and that there are much more pressing problems than speculating about whether or not she is a tree hugger.
I don't know about you but I'd rather have a tree hugger over a murderer anyday.
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People who appear to hold radical POV's shouldn't be appointed to posts where they can do harm, IMO.
One name
Ian Duncan Smith.
Whatever fate befalls our meat producing industry IF this woman is in a position to affect anything - is as nothing to the effect this truly deplorable human being is having on the ill and disabled in this country NOW. Please get a grip Rose.
700 karma app;lause clicks, TV
IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.
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So people should be denied certain jobs because they are vegans?
Well you wouldn't put a vegan in charge of the abattoir unless your aim was to close down the abattoir.
I don't mean that in a flippant way, maybe Corbyn's plan is to put the squeeze on the British meat production industry. Then it will be one of the policies by which he stands or falls at the next General Election.
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So people should be denied certain jobs because they are vegans?
Well you wouldn't put a vegan in charge of the abattoir unless your aim was to close down the abattoir.
I don't mean that in a flippant way, maybe Corbyn's plan is to put the squeeze on the British meat production industry. Then it will be one of the policies by which he stands or falls at the next General Election.
How does Simon Rimmer manage to run a vegetarian restaurant when he eats meat.?
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700 karma app;lause clicks, TV
IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.
Not a fan of IDS but I do have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart, I despise and loath people who think they speak for me, you do not.
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700 karma app;lause clicks, TV
IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.
Not a fan of IDS but I do have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart, I despise and loath people who think they speak for me, you do not.
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No, I don't.
However, I do speak for the forty orr so disabled members of my local disability forum, who were of one accord in utterly condemning IDS and his Tory henchmen's policies toward those with disabilities, whether physical, sensory or learning disabilities.
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Well you wouldn't put a vegan in charge of the abattoir unless your aim was to close down the abattoir.
Or, unless you wanted someone to ensure that the abattoir abided by the animal welfare regulations that were in place?
There are any number of people on here - me included - who despair of the mentality that accepts the Big Boy's Jewish Book of Bedtime Stories and it's increasingly tedious sequels, but who would not advocate banning religion, even if we had the capacity.
You can disagree with someone's point of view and still respect their right to it. She can be concerned with animal welfare, be a vegan because of her own personal feelings, but still appreciate that people have a right to eat meat if it's humanely delivered.
O.
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Well you wouldn't put a vegan in charge of the abattoir unless your aim was to close down the abattoir.
Or, unless you wanted someone to ensure that the abattoir abided by the animal welfare regulations that were in place?
There are any number of people on here - me included - who despair of the mentality that accepts the Big Boy's Jewish Book of Bedtime Stories and it's increasingly tedious sequels, but who would not advocate banning religion, even if we had the capacity.
You can disagree with someone's point of view and still respect their right to it. She can be concerned with animal welfare, be a vegan because of her own personal feelings, but still appreciate that people have a right to eat meat if it's humanely delivered.
O.
Nope, it's another witch, burn her as well
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700 karma app;lause clicks, TV
IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.
Not a fan of IDS but I do have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart, I despise and loath people who think they speak for me, you do not.
No, I don't.
Good man.
However, I do speak for the forty orr so disabled members of my local disability forum, who were of one accord in utterly condemning IDS and his Tory henchmen's policies toward those with disabilities, whether physical, sensory or learning disabilities.
You are an appointed representative?
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Well you wouldn't put a vegan in charge of the abattoir unless your aim was to close down the abattoir.
Or, unless you wanted someone to ensure that the abattoir abided by the animal welfare regulations that were in place?
There are any number of people on here - me included - who despair of the mentality that accepts the Big Boy's Jewish Book of Bedtime Stories and it's increasingly tedious sequels, but who would not advocate banning religion, even if we had the capacity.
You can disagree with someone's point of view and still respect their right to it. She can be concerned with animal welfare, be a vegan because of her own personal feelings, but still appreciate that people have a right to eat meat if it's humanely delivered.
O.
Nope, it's another witch, burn her as well
Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?
O.
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Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?
O.
Only if they float
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Well you wouldn't put a vegan in charge of the abattoir unless your aim was to close down the abattoir.
I don't mean that in a flippant way, maybe Corbyn's plan is to put the squeeze on the British meat production industry. Then it will be one of the policies by which he stands or falls at the next General Election.
How does Simon Rimmer manage to run a vegetarian restaurant when he eats meat.?
People who eat meat rarely have objections to eating or preparing vegetarian food. Vegans, on the other hand, do have problems with most aspects of meat consumption. That's the normal reason for being a vegan.
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People who eat meat rarely have objections to eating or preparing vegetarian food. Vegans, on the other hand, do have problems with most aspects of meat consumption. That's the normal reason for being a vegan.
But does not mean you can assume they wouldn't run an abattoir efficiently.
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People who eat meat rarely have objections to eating or preparing vegetarian food. Vegans, on the other hand, do have problems with most aspects of meat consumption. That's the normal reason for being a vegan.
But does not mean you can assume they wouldn't run an abattoir efficiently.
One of the former heads of the British Pork Pie Marketing Board (or whatever its name was) was a vegetarian, as I recall.
ETA: That's what I was thinking of:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143615/I-dont-eat-meat-reveals-Melton-Mowbray-pork-pie-ambassador.html
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People who eat meat rarely have objections to eating or preparing vegetarian food. Vegans, on the other hand, do have problems with most aspects of meat consumption. That's the normal reason for being a vegan.
But does not mean you can assume they wouldn't run an abattoir efficiently.
Given that most vegans are morally opposed to any kind of animal suffering, I would think running an abattoir would be anathema to them and the best reasonable course would be to shut down the abattoir in an orderly fashion. If one is appointed as the manager, it sends a certain message to the workers that they might not like.
This appointment sends a message to farmers and the public in general that meat farming and production is to be discouraged; the new shadow minister has claimed that meat farming is a waste of resources (not always the case, not all land on which you can farm animals is suitable for arable).
If that is the message that Corbyn wants to send, it is fine by me, even though I don't agree with it and I certainly wouldn't claim that this makes Kerry McCarthy unsuitable for her job.
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Given that most vegans are morally opposed to any kind of animal suffering, I would think running an abattoir would be anathema to them and the best reasonable course would be to shut down the abattoir in an orderly fashion. If one is appointed as the manager, it sends a certain message to the workers that they might not like.
They can be opposed to animal suffering, and therefore interested in animal welfare from birth through to slaughter - they can accept the realities of the food industry, and the freedom of people to eat meat without giving up the principles that guide their own choices.
This appointment sends a message to farmers and the public in general that meat farming and production is to be discouraged; the new shadow minister has claimed that meat farming is a waste of resources (not always the case, not all land on which you can farm animals is suitable for arable).
No, this appointment sends a message to farmers and the public that they have a shadow minister that is interested in animal welfare and doesn't just see the financial bottom line. Meat farming is more resource intensive than other crops, and although not all grazing land is suitable for agriculture much of it is.
If that is the message that Corbyn wants to send, it is fine by me, even though I don't agree with it and I certainly wouldn't claim that this makes Kerry McCarthy unsuitable for her job.
But then, if you've decided what their message is before they've had the opportunity to tell you for themselves, then your judgment of her suitability for the job is just you being judgmental, not a reasoned response to the situation.
O.
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700 karma app;lause clicks, TV
IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.
Not a fan of IDS but I do have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart, I despise and loath people who think they speak for me, you do not.
No, I don't.
Good man.
However, I do speak for the forty orr so disabled members of my local disability forum, who were of one accord in utterly condemning IDS and his Tory henchmen's policies toward those with disabilities, whether physical, sensory or learning disabilities.
You are an appointed representative?
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Well, I'm chair, if that's what you mean.
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But then, if you've decided what their message is before they've had the opportunity to tell you for themselves, then your judgment of her suitability for the job is just you being judgmental, not a reasoned response to the situation.
I haven't decided it, it is the reality of the situation. By appointing Ms McCarthy — a very outspoken vegan — to the post, the message is sent automatically. This is a fact of politics. If that was not the message intended, then Mr Corbyn can manage it through his media advisors.
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But then, if you've decided what their message is before they've had the opportunity to tell you for themselves, then your judgment of her suitability for the job is just you being judgmental, not a reasoned response to the situation.
I haven't decided it, it is the reality of the situation. By appointing Ms McCarthy — a very outspoken vegan — to the post, the message is sent automatically. This is a fact of politics. If that was not the message intended, then Mr Corbyn can manage it through his media advisors.
Is outspoken vegan like a militant atheist?
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She was the "World at One" today and sounded entirely reasonable, not outspoken at all.
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Somebody who's a vegan and says so, you mean? In the eyes (unfortunately not the brains) of some that's all it takes to be a "militant atheist."
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700 karma app;lause clicks, TV
IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.
So might we change your original statement to:
'I despise and loathe IDS and so do forty other people who I represent'.
If we take out the rhetoric we might change your statement to:
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Somebody who's a vegan and says so, you mean? In the eyes (unfortunately not the brains) of some that's all it takes to be a "militant atheist."
The only person so far who has compared her to "militant atheists" is Nearly Sane. I said she was outspoken on the grounds that she has some fairly anti meat farming views and hasn't been afraid to express them. I do not criticise her for expressing her views even though I don't agree with her. I also do not criticise Corbyn for appointing her except to say that the media reaction was predictable and if he didn't want it, he could have managed it better.
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I haven't decided it, it is the reality of the situation. By appointing Ms McCarthy — a very outspoken vegan — to the post, the message is sent automatically. This is a fact of politics. If that was not the message intended, then Mr Corbyn can manage it through his media advisors.
No, the message has not been sent - no message has been sent yet. You've made assumptions based on your limited information, nothing more.
That was probably foreseeable, but that doesn't mean that was the message.
O.
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700 karma app;lause clicks, TV
IDS is a disgrace to humanitarian politics, despised and loathed by all who have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart.
In other words, a Cameronite.
Not a fan of IDS but I do have the best interests of disadvantaged people at heart, I despise and loath people who think they speak for me, you do not.
Whilst I prefer to despise and loathe actions not people I agree completely with this.
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Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?
O.
Only if they float
They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.
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Somebody who's a vegan and says so, you mean? In the eyes (unfortunately not the brains) of some that's all it takes to be a "militant atheist."
The only person so far who has compared her to "militant atheists" is Nearly Sane. I said she was outspoken on the grounds that she has some fairly anti meat farming views and hasn't been afraid to express them. I do not criticise her for expressing her views even though I don't agree with her. I also do not criticise Corbyn for appointing her except to say that the media reaction was predictable and if he didn't want it, he could have managed it better.
Agreeing with you, Jeremy. We have a public with little intent to go vegetarian or vegan and the USA with its far lower standards on welfare within farming doing some trade deal with the EU to get its produce on our tables. If Corbyn's new minister has the intent to protect hill farmers whilst improving welfare standards she will be onto a winner but if her policies are the eradication of livestock farming from England and Wales the potential consequences - loss of livelihoods, yet another increase in farmer suicides, a knock on effect for the landscape and lower rather than higher animal welfare standards - will cost him.
For info:
http://www.fwi.co.uk/farm-life/suicide-investigating-a-farming-taboo.htm
I know Anchorman is aware of the tragic situation with farmers and suicide in Scotland.
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Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?
O.
Only if they float
They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.
That was sort of supposed to be part of the irony... :)
O.
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Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?
O.
Only if they float
They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.
That was sort of supposed to be part of the irony... :)
O.
Vegans don't do irony.
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Agreeing with you, Jeremy. We have a public with little intent to go vegetarian or vegan and the USA with its far lower standards on welfare within farming doing some trade deal with the EU to get its produce on our tables.
It gets worse - if TTIP goes through, there's the prospect of American farming companies suing the government if they impose standards above those of the US for lost potential profits as soon as they make any sort of change to the standards.
O.
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Are we allowed to toast marshmallows? Or are they too vegan?
O.
Only if they float
They aren't vegan - or vegetarian - as they are made with gelatin.
That was sort of supposed to be part of the irony... :)
O.
Vegans don't do irony.
I'm pretty sure I was told that spinach and broccoli are high in irony?
O.
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Agreeing with you, Jeremy. We have a public with little intent to go vegetarian or vegan and the USA with its far lower standards on welfare within farming doing some trade deal with the EU to get its produce on our tables.
It gets worse - if TTIP goes through, there's the prospect of American farming companies suing the government if they impose standards above those of the US for lost potential profits as soon as they make any sort of change to the standards.
O.
I heard that, although I did hope it was hysterical press speculation.
Apparently not.
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I heard that, although I did hope it was hysterical press speculation.
Apparently not.
If anything, Rhi, O was probably understating the reality of what could happen.
The US have a number of this kind of agreement - with different parts of the world - I believe.
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So if TTIP is indeed worse than this and there are various agreements around the world, can we have cited the cases brought under these which have already happened?
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I heard that, although I did hope it was hysterical press speculation.
Apparently not.
If anything, Rhi, O was probably understating the reality of what could happen.
The US have a number of this kind of agreement - with different parts of the world - I believe.
Indeed, TTIP is the start of a race to the loosest regulatory framework setting the standard - on a day when the Tory government announced swingeing cuts to the benefit system, the newspapers were filled with stories of Jeremy Corbyn not singing at a memorial event - what chance something like this gets reasonable time?
O.
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Good God, man, singing, God, the Queen, wearing a suit - the Empire was built upon these things, upon the playing fields of Eton, 'Forty years on, when afar and asunder, Parted are those who are singing today'. Ah, what bliss, now where was I?
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So if TTIP is indeed worse than this and there are various agreements around the world, can we have cited the cases brought under these which have already happened?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement
- Discusses the issue in some detail and provides examples of previous disputes. Because of the nature of these cases I expect that many are resolved without the need for public disclosure.
Fairly sure this has been discussed before ???
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Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.
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Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.
They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.
As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics.
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Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.
They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.
As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics.
I'ts pointless, baseless, bullshit attention seeking, so yes the Tories playing politics - that's to be expected of them, no-one's going to be disappointed.
By changing their tune and suddenly deciding to vote against, though, Corbyn's Labour suddenly look like they're playing politics, and they're supposed to be different.
O.
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Interesting change of plan so that Labour will now vote against Osborne's spending plans.
They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.
As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics.
I'ts pointless, baseless, bullshit attention seeking, so yes the Tories playing politics - that's to be expected of them, no-one's going to be disappointed.
By changing their tune and suddenly deciding to vote against, though, Corbyn's Labour suddenly look like they're playing politics, and they're supposed to be different.
Agree Labour would be better off explaining its a total waste of time and just abstain / not bother turning up for the vote.
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So to ridicule the bill they were going to vote for it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34519164
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So to ridicule the bill they were going to vote for it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34519164
No idea, it looks to me that it was a trap to show labour up as fiscally irresponsible, they were going to avoid the trap by voting for it. Now it looks like they will fall for it and look like they don't know what they were doing.
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So to ridicule the bill they were going to vote for it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34519164
No idea, it looks to me that it was a trap to show labour up as fiscally irresponsible, they were going to avoid the trap by voting for it. Now it looks like they will fall for it and look like they don't know what they were doing.
Are the Lib Dems falling for it by voting against it? Is that even though it was not adhered to by any Tory govt between 79 and 97? Or that it is not an enforceable law by the constitution? Is voting for a non enforceable and so far non implementable law avoiding a trap? Perhaps having a govt or opposition with a vague understanding of the constitution or history or economics would be good?
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They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.
As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics.
So clearly Labour are playing politics because they seemed to be in agreement with the 'flaky' charter only 2 weeks ago.
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So to ridicule the bill they were going to vote for it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34519164
No idea, it looks to me that it was a trap to show labour up as fiscally irresponsible, they were going to avoid the trap by voting for it. Now it looks like they will fall for it and look like they don't know what they were doing.
Are the Lib Dems falling for it by voting against it? Is that even though it was not adhered to by any Tory govt between 79 and 97? Or that it is not an enforceable law by the constitution? Is voting for a non enforceable and so far non implementable law avoiding a trap? Perhaps having a govt or opposition with a vague understanding of the constitution or history or economics would be good?
I don't think the Lib dems have an image problem with regard to their economic creditials.
Watched daily poltics show and part of the reason for the change was Snp spinning this out as Labour supporting Osborne and austerity... not honest but that is the Snp for you.
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I don't think the Lib dems have an image problem with regard to their economic creditials.
Two words - tuition fees
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I don't think the Lib dems have an image problem with regard to their economic credentials.
Two words - tuition fees
Is that in regard to the economy or a wider thing, you are not confusing me with some tribal follower of the LibDems are you.
They cocked up on tuition fees and paid the price at the hands of the electorate.
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I don't think the Lib dems have an image problem with regard to their economic credentials.
Two words - tuition fees
Is that in regard to the economy or a wider thing, you are not confusing me with some tribal follower of the LibDems are you.
They cocked up on tuition fees and paid the price at the hands of the electorate.
and given it was related to the economy illustrates they have an image problem in relation to their economic credentials
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I don't think the Lib dems have an image problem with regard to their economic credentials.
Two words - tuition fees
Is that in regard to the economy or a wider thing, you are not confusing me with some tribal follower of the LibDems are you.
They cocked up on tuition fees and paid the price at the hands of the electorate.
and given it was related to the economy illustrates they have an image problem in relation to their economic credentials
Whatever I don't think anyone is paying much attention to the LibDems these days. I'm not sure what you are arguing for, are you suggesting Labour handled this issue well?
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It certainly indicates that the Lib Dems can't work out basic economics. They didn't understand that they couldn't afford to offer the same level of university education without fees. The Tories had a fee scrapping policy but dumped it once they did their sums and actually admitted it was wrong if them to have had it. It pains me to say it, but for the Lib Dems not to have figured that out made them inept. If they had figured that out then they were liars.
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They are voting against fiscal charter, which would require Governments in a growing economy to sustain a surplus.
As I understand it the charter is flaky as hell, the Tories playing politics.
So clearly Labour are playing politics because they seemed to be in agreement with the 'flaky' charter only 2 weeks ago.
They all play politics all of the time sometimes they allow the facade to slip so much that everyone can see.
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All politicians play politics, that's why they are politicians. I merely take most of what's said with a pinch of salt. If the Prime Minister can stand up in public, as he did at the Conservative Conference, and lie and double talk as he did, then you can take nothing as gospel.
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It certainly indicates that the Lib Dems can't work out basic economics. They didn't understand that they couldn't afford to offer the same level of university education without fees. The Tories had a fee scrapping policy but dumped it once they did their sums and actually admitted it was wrong if them to have had it. It pains me to say it, but for the Lib Dems not to have figured that out made them inept. If they had figured that out then they were liars.
Does it show those things, the LibDems didn't get into power so they had to negotiate what was spent. I thinks its complex issue, the electorate doesn't have patience to get into the complexities so short little quips wins the day.
We'll be hearing lots more 'deficit deniers', 'votes with the Tories' over the next few years.
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Yep, it precisely shows those things, don't make pledges that you haven't costed, because when you break the pledge it makes you look like idiots or liars.
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Yep, it precisely shows those things, don't make pledges that you haven't costed, because when you break the pledge it makes you look like idiots or liars.
Whatever I don't think anyone is paying much attention to the LibDems these days. I'm not sure what you are arguing for, are you suggesting Labour handled this issue well?
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and given it was related to the economy illustrates they have an image problem in relation to their economic credentials
Yes but only in the sense that every government policy has an effect on the economy one way or the other.
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Just ffs
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11982482/Jeremy-Corbyn-criticised-for-not-bowing-deeply-enough-at-Cenotaph-on-Remembrance-Sunday.html
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Just ffs
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11982482/Jeremy-Corbyn-criticised-for-not-bowing-deeply-enough-at-Cenotaph-on-Remembrance-Sunday.html
They're just pissed off he didn't do this
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/03/04/article-1255300-03622FA60000044D-359_468x324.jpg
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Just ffs
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11982482/Jeremy-Corbyn-criticised-for-not-bowing-deeply-enough-at-Cenotaph-on-Remembrance-Sunday.html
I actually thought it was a spoof when I saw a link to this on Facebook, but apparently not :o