Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Anchorman on September 21, 2015, 06:42:59 PM

Title: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Anchorman on September 21, 2015, 06:42:59 PM
Bullingdon boy...don't you just love 'em?
You couldn't make this up - but, fortunately, you don't have to......


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242550/Cameron-pig-bemused-look-face-future-PM-took-outrageous-initiation-ceremony-joining-Oxford-dining-society.html
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: wigginhall on September 21, 2015, 06:47:18 PM
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/download/file.php?id=12858
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 21, 2015, 07:05:11 PM
It wasn't enough that I tried to cover this subtly elsewhere and sometimes not so subtly, we need a thread on it? It has been very funny on twitter today, but in the end it is an irrelevance.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Anchorman on September 21, 2015, 07:12:03 PM
It wasn't enough that I tried to cover this subtly elsewhere and sometime Mrs not so subtly, we need a thread on it? It has been very funny on twitter today, but in the end it is an irrelevance.


-
Still funny, though!
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on September 21, 2015, 07:31:43 PM
It wasn't enough that I tried to cover this subtly elsewhere and sometime Mrs not so subtly, we need a thread on it? It has been very funny on twitter today, but in the end it is an irrelevance.


-
Still funny, though!
Lol, and this little piggy went to Oxford,,,,,,,
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: jeremyp on September 21, 2015, 08:21:30 PM
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/download/file.php?id=12858

Apparently there are photos of the event and for a minute, I thought this was going to be one of them. Given that I'm on a crowded train, I'm quite relieved at the real subject matter.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Anchorman on September 21, 2015, 09:43:41 PM
As usual, the Wee Ginger Dug brings his usual blend of wit and insight into the reason Hameron and his upper class numpties joined the daft clubs and did the daft things they did.

https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/the-answer-in-the-mouth-of-a-pig/
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Rhiannon on September 22, 2015, 06:54:06 AM
My eldest and I had fun imagining future history text books.

'PM Cameron became the first British Prime Minister to resign because...'
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 22, 2015, 09:02:50 AM
It wasn't enough that I tried to cover this subtly elsewhere and sometime Mrs not so subtly, we need a thread on it? It has been very funny on twitter today, but in the end it is an irrelevance.


-
Still funny, though!
What's even funnier is that although most young people, whatever their age, go through a comparable initiation ceremony - be that at school or at university, its only ever ones like the Bullingdon Club or Cambridge's equivalent, The Pitt Club, that get into the news.  Some of the pranks that 'ordinary' students at 'ordinary' universities and colleges got up to during Rag Week (do they still have these weeks) would stand comparison with the behaviour of the Bullingdon and Pitt.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Gordon on September 22, 2015, 09:06:30 AM
It wasn't enough that I tried to cover this subtly elsewhere and sometime Mrs not so subtly, we need a thread on it? It has been very funny on twitter today, but in the end it is an irrelevance.


-
Still funny, though!
What's even funnier is that although most young people, whatever their age, go through a comparable initiation ceremony - be that at school or at university, its only ever ones like the Bullingdon Club or Cambridge's equivalent, The Pitt Club, that get into the news.  Some of the pranks that 'ordinary' students at 'ordinary' universities and colleges got up to during Rag Week (do they still have these weeks) would stand comparison with the behaviour of the Bullingdon and Pitt.

Do 'most' do this - how do you know?
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Anchorman on September 22, 2015, 09:10:27 AM
You had to ask, Gordon - you just had to......
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Alien on September 22, 2015, 10:07:12 AM
Bullingdon boy...don't you just love 'em?
You couldn't make this up - but, fortunately, you don't have to......


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3242550/Cameron-pig-bemused-look-face-future-PM-took-outrageous-initiation-ceremony-joining-Oxford-dining-society.html
It might be worth finding out if it is true first though.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Rhiannon on September 22, 2015, 10:15:21 AM
Didn't the co-author of the book say she didn't know if it was or not?
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Outrider on September 22, 2015, 10:19:20 AM
Let's assume for a moment that this initiation ritual did happen, that Cameron did take part as described - how does that make the slightest bit of difference to his capacity to be Prime Minister?

Given what this Tory government is currently attempting to do with it's extremist right-wing state-sector shrinkage is this really the most important and telling thing we can raise to question the suitability of this government to lead us forward?

O.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Enki on September 22, 2015, 10:22:03 AM
All this, of course, is assuming it's all true, and not down to the revenge motives of a certain person who wanted a higher profile in the government simply because he was a huge donor of the Tories, a higher profile which Cameron wasn't prepared to give.
Still, I suppose it makes enjoyable reading, and provides plenty of ammunition to those wanting to discredit Cameron.

The same sort of thing is happening to Corbyn at the moment with the media in a frenzy to discredit him by digging up as many embarrassing things about Corbyn's past as they think they can get their hands on.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: jakswan on September 22, 2015, 12:45:24 PM
Let's assume for a moment that this initiation ritual did happen, that Cameron did take part as described - how does that make the slightest bit of difference to his capacity to be Prime Minister?

Given what this Tory government is currently attempting to do with it's extremist right-wing state-sector shrinkage is this really the most important and telling thing we can raise to question the suitability of this government to lead us forward?

Yes I'd much prefer politicians and commentators to focus on the issues rather then who put their penis where and who did/did not sing the national anthem.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 22, 2015, 12:54:00 PM
Though there are places where they might put their penis and circumstances surrounding it which would be important.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 22, 2015, 12:56:54 PM
I thought this was a good piece on the subject


http://www.robfahey.co.uk/blog/the-pm-the-pig-and-musings-on-power/
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: jakswan on September 22, 2015, 01:08:32 PM
Though there are places where they might put their penis and circumstances surrounding it which would be important.

Its a once in a generation thing. :)
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on September 22, 2015, 02:15:48 PM
"It was the most degrading thing I've ever done in my life and I'd much rather forget all about it,"






.........the pig said today.


Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 22, 2015, 02:19:11 PM
Though there are places where they might put their penis and circumstances surrounding it which would be important.

Its a once in a generation thing. :)

Je suis leur chef, if faut que je les suives - LeDru Rollin
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 22, 2015, 02:36:34 PM
Do 'most' do this - how do you know?
I have attended three different colleges and universities over the years; my father, brother and the older of my two sisters attended 2.  My younger sister attended 1, as did my 2 daughters.  Having been a member of the Student Union Council and a delgate to 2 NUS conferences during my initial teacher training course, I got to read and hear reports of Rag Weeks (and other query-able student-led activities) from the NUS's regular news updates.  That they still occur is something that I have inferred from news reports I've read over the years.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: jakswan on September 22, 2015, 03:02:28 PM
Do 'most' do this - how do you know?
I have attended three different colleges and universities over the years; my father, brother and the older of my two sisters attended 2.  My younger sister attended 1, as did my 2 daughters.  Having been a member of the Student Union Council and a delgate to 2 NUS conferences during my initial teacher training course, I got to read and hear reports of Rag Weeks (and other query-able student-led activities) from the NUS's regular news updates.  That they still occur is something that I have inferred from news reports I've read over the years.

Your father, brother and the older of your two sisters sisters did something comparable to sticking their privates in a pig?

Wow!
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Aruntraveller on September 22, 2015, 03:53:16 PM
I don't recall any initiation of any sort. All anecdotal of course.

Mind, when I went to college you couldn't afford pigs.

I feel bereft.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 22, 2015, 05:04:16 PM
Other than the occasional game of Cardinal Puff and specific teasing, I don't remember any initiations but we did have pigs heads on occasion. It was discussed yesterday with some of my alumni friendas that the head did get a certain amount of ceremony - it would be taken to somewhere and placed incongrously and/or mildly threateningly. Incongrous was the time that the traffic lights went from Red - Red Amber - Pig. One of the other times it was escorted by people in gowns with hoods up chanting to be placed on the doorstep of the Vice Principal and his door anointed with an inverted  mayonnaise (at least it was supposed to be mayonnaise) cross. However tadger action was not normal in regard to the porcine adornment. Those dinners those were mixed and I cannot answer for single sex ones as I never attended any on principle.

There is a valid point that initiations are about 'binding' peopel and can be taken too far but other than enjoying the memes on Twitter yesterday it is not relevant to Cameron now As noted in the other thread where I mentioned this, I think that we sell arms to Saudi is far more worrying than any nonsense at teh Piers Gaveston Society or similar.


Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Rhiannon on September 22, 2015, 05:10:51 PM
Surely the most  worrying thing is the power and influence Osborne has? the man scares me to death.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 22, 2015, 05:45:28 PM
Your father, brother and the older of your two sisters sisters did something comparable to sticking their privates in a pig? 
Did I say that?  No.  What I said was that I have heard stories about comparable behaviour from people who have attended college and university, through reports to NUS conferences and documents, and also through information members of my family - over 3 generations of university and college attendance - have passed on to me over the years.  I know of one guy who 'kidnapped' a female student as a Rag Week prank, and following an excessive intake of alcohol, raped her.  He was a fellow student of mine at my first teacher training college.  He was charged and found guilty and served a term in jail.  Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 22, 2015, 05:47:19 PM
Surely the most  worrying thing is the power and influence Osborne has? the man scares me to death.
Does he have any greater power than any Chancellor has had?
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Rhiannon on September 22, 2015, 06:22:07 PM
Surely the most  worrying thing is the power and influence Osborne has? the man scares me to death.
Does he have any greater power than any Chancellor has had?

No, but he's the brains behind the Tory policies - Cameron is the acceptable face. Having a leader who sounds like Piers Fletcher Dervish wasn't going to win them jack. In years to come we won't be talking about Cameronism. What even is that?
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Aruntraveller on September 22, 2015, 07:59:15 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Rhiannon on September 22, 2015, 08:00:13 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?

Applaud.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 22, 2015, 08:05:11 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?
Is sticking your privates in a pig a sin, or was that voided by the new covenant?
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Rhiannon on September 22, 2015, 08:10:23 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?
Is sticking your privates in a pig a sin, or was that voided by the new covenant?

 ;D
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Andy on September 22, 2015, 08:14:48 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?
Is sticking your privates in a pig a sin, or was that voided by the new covenant?
You can... but only if you drive it off a cliff first.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 22, 2015, 08:19:23 PM
No, but he's the brains behind the Tory policies ...
In other words, he's no different from most previous Chancellors, from whatever party.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Rhiannon on September 22, 2015, 08:29:13 PM
No, but he's the brains behind the Tory policies ...
In other words, he's no different from most previous Chancellors, from whatever party.

But scarier. Much, much scarier.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: jakswan on September 22, 2015, 08:50:24 PM
Did I say that?  No. 

Which is why it was posed as a question.

Quote
What I said was that I have heard stories about comparable behaviour from people who have attended college and university, through reports to NUS conferences and documents, and also through information members of my family

No what you said was 'most young people, whatever their age, go through a comparable initiation ceremony be that at school or at university', now its heard stories about some people. I've heard stories about the severn bridge being for sale, wanna buy it?

You then listed experience of you attending three colleges and universities, your father, and your sister attending two and your other sister one. That is seven experiences in total yet none of you went through a 'comparable initiation ceremony'.

Seems like your 'most' is actually 'no one I know'.

Quote
I know of one guy who 'kidnapped' a female student as a Rag Week prank, and following an excessive intake of alcohol, raped her.  He was a fellow student of mine at my first teacher training college.  He was charged and found guilty and served a term in jail.  Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

No that sounds sick and isn't comparable. I'd ask you though if you think it is comparable?

If no, then you would be stupid to list this, an incomparable initiation ceremony to support your assertion of a comparable one. If yes then your a sick stupid twat.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 22, 2015, 09:09:53 PM

Is sticking your privates in a pig a sin, or was that voided by the new covenant?
You can... but only if you drive it off a cliff first.
Gearbox in the new covenant is a real pig!
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on September 23, 2015, 01:23:28 AM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?

You reap what you sow!  ::)
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Sebastian Toe on September 23, 2015, 01:36:41 AM
Is it true that Samantha has asked her lawyer if pigamy can be used as a ground for divorce?
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 23, 2015, 03:06:03 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?
Not sure that society believes that, even if Christianity does.  Remember that we have been talking about how society views what the 'Bullingdon' folk did.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Aruntraveller on September 23, 2015, 03:24:01 PM
Quote
Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

Really I thought all sins were equal?
Not sure that society believes that, even if Christianity does.  Remember that we have been talking about how society views what the 'Bullingdon' folk did.

I'm sorry. You appeared to be making a personal observation when you said "I'm not sure" - you probably meant to say "society's not sure". Easy mistake.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 23, 2015, 03:51:27 PM
I'm sorry. You appeared to be making a personal observation when you said "I'm not sure" - you probably meant to say "society's not sure". Easy mistake.
Sorry, TV; if I'd been making a purely personal observation, I'd have made that clear.  As it is, I was actually making a fairly general comment based on the comments on this thread.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Hope on September 23, 2015, 04:01:45 PM
No what you said was 'most young people, whatever their age, go through a comparable initiation ceremony be that at school or at university', ...
You then listed experience of you attending three colleges and universities, your father, and your sister attending two and your other sister one.

Seems like your 'most' is actually 'no one I know'.
Actually I made no comment regarding whether any of us had or had not experienced any such initiation.  The list was just that  - a list of the people who had been to one or more places of higher education within my family - which was then added to by my reference to information I have had as a result of being a part of the NUS and the Student Council at college.

Quote
No that sounds sick and isn't comparable. I'd ask you though if you think it is comparable?
Actually, I'd suggest that this is far worse than what Cameron et al are purported to have done, but this was effectrively a ritual process as it was a part of a Rag week prank.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: jakswan on September 23, 2015, 05:52:07 PM
Actually I made no comment regarding whether any of us had or had not experienced any such initiation.  The list was just that  - a list of the people who had been to one or more places of higher education within my family - which was then added to by my reference to information I have had as a result of being a part of the NUS and the Student Council at college.

No you didn't but you did say 'most young people, whatever their age, go through a comparable initiation ceremony be that at school or at university' so its logical to think that 'most people' would include some or all of your family. Otherwise why bring it up?

Quote
Actually, I'd suggest that this is far worse than what Cameron et al are purported to have done, but this was effectrively a ritual process as it was a part of a Rag week prank.

Phew, you never know with you 'all sins are equal' concept.

So, its not a comparable initiation ceremony. Why didn't you just say 'I've heard these initiation ceremonies are quite common and things happen which are comparable or worse'.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Aruntraveller on September 23, 2015, 06:49:18 PM
I'm sorry. You appeared to be making a personal observation when you said "I'm not sure" - you probably meant to say "society's not sure". Easy mistake.
Sorry, TV; if I'd been making a purely personal observation, I'd have made that clear.  As it is, I was actually making a fairly general comment based on the comments on this thread.

Well it all seemed personal, anecdotal type stuff to me:

Quote
I know of one guy who 'kidnapped' a female student as a Rag Week prank, and following an excessive intake of alcohol, raped her.  He was a fellow student of mine at my first teacher training college.  He was charged and found guilty and served a term in jail.  Mind you, I'm not sure that that is on a par with sticking his privates in a pig.  It may be in your mind.

So excuse me for not thinking you were talking in general terms.
Title: Re: Caneron brings home the bacon for britain.
Post by: Shaker on September 27, 2015, 11:56:08 PM
Hogwarts:

(1) A fictional school for wizards in the Harry Potter series by J. K. Rowling;

(2) What David Cameron probably has on his willy.