Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Literature, Music, Art & Entertainment => Topic started by: Harrowby Hall on October 01, 2015, 10:09:14 PM

Title: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 01, 2015, 10:09:14 PM
Anyone who did not watch this programme tonight should do so on iPlayer.

Its central story is the partition of Pakistan from India and the massacre of Hindu women and girls in order to spare them from falling into Muslim hands.

I don't think that any tv programme has ever moved, horrified, depressed me as much as this one has.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: trippymonkey on October 01, 2015, 10:40:17 PM
OMG I was in tears when Anita was told the story of a Muslim mob who came to this Sikh family's door demanding a young, beautiful girl, then they'd leave them alone. !!! Yeah RIGHT !!!
The girls accepted their deaths at the hands of their FATHERS than have the shame of, very likely, horrendous rape & murder ?!?!!??

I defy ANYONE to watch it & not be horrified !!!!!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 06:33:06 AM
HH

I suggest you find solutions for the organised rapes and child abuses that are happening today in the west (refer the 'polygamist' thread) ...(not to mention school shootings!).... and stop being 'horrified' by things that happened 60 years ago in India and elsewhere. 

Funnily no one appears to make documentaries and TV programs on such matters!

Very selective sense of morality many of you seem to have!!  ::)
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 02, 2015, 06:47:24 AM
Sriram

You haven't seen the programme. You are making assumptions about its content. In the absence of any real understanding of the nature of the programme you risk making a public fool of yourself.

Don't make judgements on things of which you have no knowledge.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 07:41:16 AM
Sriram

You haven't seen the programme. You are making assumptions about its content. In the absence of any real understanding of the nature of the programme you risk making a public fool of yourself.

Don't make judgements on things of which you have no knowledge.


What you have mentioned in the OP is enough.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 02, 2015, 08:26:24 AM
Sriram

You haven't seen the programme. You are making assumptions about its content. In the absence of any real understanding of the nature of the programme you risk making a public fool of yourself.

Don't make judgements on things of which you have no knowledge.


What you have mentioned in the OP is enough.

You know neither the content of the programme not its context. You should learn to control your knee-jerk reactions. The content of the programme is seen entirely through Indian (educated, compassionate, articulate British Indian) eyes.

If you ever do get to see the programme then I look forward to seeing your apology on this forum.

Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: trippymonkey on October 02, 2015, 08:30:36 AM
Sriram-Ji
I know exactly what you're saying as you know I visit India regularly & it's my second home & friends there, Muslim. Hindu etc, are my second family now. 8)

Would you please explain why you feel as you do about NOW as well as what the prog was on about, please ????
BTW People ARE making docs on the more 'modern' versions of these events !!!

Best
Nick
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 08:45:19 AM
Sriram-Ji
I know exactly what you're saying as you know I visit India regularly & it's my second home & friends there, Muslim. Hindu etc, are my second family now. 8)

Would you please explain why you feel as you do about NOW as well as what the prog was on about, please ????
BTW People ARE making docs on the more 'modern' versions of these events !!!

Best
Nick

Well Nick....my reaction is based on the propensity of HH (and some others on here), to highlight, express horror and indignation over many things that have happened in the past in India or are happening there now ....but taking similar things happening in the west or other 'developed' countries, in a matter of fact way.   Things like rapes, child abuse, trafficking, discrimination, killings and so on.

News reporters and documentary makers in the west are not very different.   

And this bias is not just about India, its about all traditional societies including muslims (presumably because of the perceived influence of religion).
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: trippymonkey on October 02, 2015, 08:55:00 AM
Accha So you feel they're being a bit 'selective' in their comments???

This post is about that prog though. It would make the post many pages long if we step to one side & start discussing what going on 'here', so to speak, na?

I DO agree much more can be done NOW & maybe we should dwell a bit less on the past & use our energies to sort out awful abuses NOW but, again, we must stress this isn't about East V West.

Nick
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 02, 2015, 09:18:12 AM
If anything in our recent history we've tiptoed around the issue of race, culture and the abuse of women, as in our failure to protect young girls in Rotherham, Oxford and elsewhere.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 02, 2015, 09:23:07 AM
HH

I suggest you find solutions for the organised rapes and child abuses that are happening today in the west (refer the 'polygamist' thread) ...(not to mention school shootings!).... and stop being 'horrified' by things that happened 60 years ago in India and elsewhere. 

Funnily no one appears to make documentaries and TV programs on such matters!

Very selective sense of morality many of you seem to have!!  ::)

Actually Sriram they do make documentaries and TV programs on such matters.

The holocaust and how people suffered across Europe in ww2.

Or how very poor workers and children were treated in the UK in factories, years ago where there were no safety guards to protect them and human life was not considered valuable.

Children were stuck down mines all day,  dragging coal to the surface.

I am going to watch it, but it seems to me ( reading the op) it is about how beastly people can be to each other, and how lives are regarded sometimes by people who are perceived to belong to a different group.

There are many such documentaries, India isn't immune, any more than anywhere else.

It  sounds like a tragic human story.

From what I can gather there is a mix of opinion as the whether the women killed themselves willingly, or were killed/ordered to kill themselves by the men in the community who could not endure the 'shame' of having their women raped by men from other religions.

There's been coverage recently given to the systematic rape of German women by the Russians at the end of WW2. I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west - but is is about using the abuse of women as a weapon of war.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Andy on October 02, 2015, 09:26:54 AM
I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west
Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 02, 2015, 09:30:45 AM
I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west
Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?

Fair point.

One major step towards stopping atrocities like this from happening might be to stop dividing humanity up into 'them' and 'us'.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Andy on October 02, 2015, 09:31:24 AM
I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west
Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?

Sriram probably has no idea what " who do you think you are?" Is.

No one gave him the context, so don't be to hard on him.

Perhaps he should educate himself first before flying off the handle and making an arse of himself. It isn't my job nor anyone else's to spoon feed his ignorance.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 02, 2015, 09:34:29 AM
I don't think for a minute anyone thinks this is about East v west
Anyone other than Sriram, you mean?

Sriram probably has no idea what " who do you think you are?" Is.

No one gave him the context, so don't be to hard on him.

He thinks our response to the story on the LDS abuses in the States is a load of excuses for the West as well.

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=10932.0
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Andy on October 02, 2015, 09:49:09 AM
Yes, it is ignorance. I was ignorant of some of the things that went on before I watched the programme last night, now I'm not. See, I watched it first to give me a foundation in order to comment from. It's how I know he's talking bollocks

I'm sure he's a big enough boy to actually educate himself first before passing judgement.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 11:06:25 AM
Accha So you feel they're being a bit 'selective' in their comments???

This post is about that prog though. It would make the post many pages long if we step to one side & start discussing what going on 'here', so to speak, na?

I DO agree much more can be done NOW & maybe we should dwell a bit less on the past & use our energies to sort out awful abuses NOW but, again, we must stress this isn't about East V West.

Nick


Of course it is about east & west...knowing HH and his propensity to interject irrelevant negative posts about India into every thread!!

I don't see how the program about some lady of Indian origin tracing her fathers past has anything to do with these boards. (And not one of the mods bothers to shift the thread from the Science boards to wherever it belongs??!!).   

Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 02, 2015, 11:19:45 AM
Thank you for pointing that out, Sriram.

Although clicking 'report to moderator' is generally more efficient.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 11:22:09 AM
Thank you for pointing that out, Sriram.

Although clicking 'report to moderator' is generally more efficient.


You have posted on this thread. You should have known without anyone pointing it out!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Andy on October 02, 2015, 11:30:22 AM
Thank you for pointing that out, Sriram.

Although clicking 'report to moderator' is generally more efficient.


You have posted on this thread. You should have known without anyone pointing it out!

Well at least now you're showing your magnanimity...
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 02, 2015, 11:39:58 AM
Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 11:47:06 AM
Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 02, 2015, 12:09:45 PM
Absolutely. 15 - and in those days girls were pretty young at fifteen in many ways - is just the kind of age to get caught up in the glamour of Naziism. The rape of German women did nothing to change what the Nazzis did, it just created more suffering and more hate.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 12:24:37 PM


What is this about the Russians raping the Germans? Why only Russians (always the bad guys...these Russians)? British always the nice gentlemanly guys...what?!

I bet many British, French and American soldiers also raped German women during the war, besides women of many other nationalities.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 02, 2015, 01:23:51 PM
Confession time. I'm not sure why I posted under this subject. It was late at night and I was very tired. Perhaps it was because television is technology! Apologies


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)

On the basis of a couple of posts about caste and a further one about a British Indian couple being convicted - in a criminal court - of treating a woman, who was deliberately employed by them because she was from a low caste, as a slave, Sriram has decided that somehow I am anti-India. I am not.

I am against the institutionalising of differences - be they differences of sex, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, national origin or cultural origin. Sriram maintains that caste is of no importance in modern India. I think that he is being disingenuous - it is how he would like the world to perceive modern India.

I am sure that at the "official" level caste is now outlawed in India and it is little importance among the metropolitan elite. But at other levels and in other places? A mere edict will not remove it.

I referred to an article in a serious journal, written by a respected academic of Indian origin, about the existence of caste-related behaviour among the Indian diaspora in Britain. Sriram rubbished it.

Few people on this forum, I am sure, have any antipathy towards India, but Sriram chooses to perceive things differently. I described my reactions to the tv programme I saw last night and was immediately insulted for doing so.

You are to be commended for defending the honour of your homeland, Sriram, but don't do it blindly. Nowhere is perfect, certainly not Britain and certainly not India.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 01:33:49 PM
Confession time. I'm not sure why I posted under this subject. It was late at night and I was very tired. Perhaps it was because television is technology! Apologies


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)

On the basis of a couple of posts about caste and a further one about a British Indian couple being convicted - in a criminal court - of treating a woman, who was deliberately employed by them because she was from a low caste, as a slave, Sriram has decided that somehow I am anti-India. I am not.

I am against the institutionalising of differences - be they differences of sex, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, national origin or cultural origin. Sriram maintains that caste is of no importance in modern India. I think that he is being disingenuous - it is how he would like the world to perceive modern India.

I am sure that at the "official" level caste is now outlawed in India and it is little importance among the metropolitan elite. But at other levels and in other places? A mere edict will not remove it.

I referred to an article in a serious journal, written by a respected academic of Indian origin, about the existence of caste-related behaviour among the Indian diaspora in Britain. Sriram rubbished it.

Few people on this forum, I am sure, have any antipathy towards India, but Sriram chooses to perceive things differently. I described my reactions to the tv programme I saw last night and was immediately insulted for doing so.

You are to be commended for defending the honour of your homeland, Sriram, but don't do it blindly. Nowhere is perfect, certainly not Britain and certainly not India.

Now what?! Am I supposed to applaud and wipe my moist eyes or something?  :D

There you go...you managed to start a India thread after all!  I seriously think a 'India' section would be in order. There is so much discussion about it.....much more than about Hindu philosophy.

Anyway...thanks HH.   Just jump to it and show the same indignation and scorn when rape and abuse happen elsewhere. That's all! 

Cheers.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 02, 2015, 01:35:55 PM


What is this about the Russians raping the Germans? Why only Russians (always the bad guys...these Russians)? British always the nice gentlemanly guys...what?!

I bet many British, French and American soldiers also raped German women during the war, besides women of many other nationalities.

It is entirely possible that some British, American and French soldiers raped German women towards the end of WW2 in Europe. However, it was not used as a deliberate military tactic as it was by the Russians. Don't forget: Russia started WW2 as Germany's allies and then suffered privation, starvation and 27 million fatal casualties - more than all the other allies combined.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Udayana on October 02, 2015, 02:08:53 PM
I haven't yet watched the programme, although I do generally watch this series, I hadn't expected Anita's story to be one about partition.

This is history, it has to be examined so that we can learn how to deal with the same or worse issues in our own time and geography, wherever we are. Although, looking at Syria, ISIL, the ME and North Africa, etc we don't seem to be much good at learning anything at all.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 02, 2015, 03:18:12 PM
Sriram this is the best I can do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3255063/To-hear-brutal-changed-Strictly-star-Anita-Rani-left-stunned-discovering-grandfather-s-wife-killed-India-raped-savage-violence-Partition.html


It gives you an idea of what the programme was about.

🌹


Thanks Rose. I'll try to watch it.  I do know what the programme is about....but I'll watch it tonight all the same (if the link works).
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 02, 2015, 05:01:19 PM
Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)

OOOO touchy aren't we!

You have posted enough on various threads here that could well be as equally racist (which is what you are screaming on about without the guts to actually say - type - the word) about the British/English that you really ought to calm down and realise just how much of an arse you are making of yourself, but then, like a lot of people of colour, you probably deem only white people can be called racists.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 03, 2015, 05:23:08 AM
I think it is a shame Sriram can't see the programme , because he might have had a more empathic response and could have given us perhaps an insight into the cultural background of the family involved.


Actually Rose....I live in the south which is almost completely insulated from such happenings.  Its like people in Spain are insulated from happenings in Norway.  Life in the south is relatively more peaceful and less disturbed as compared to the North and particularly the North-west.  This has been so from the  days of Alexander the Great.....to the partition.

I do know some people from the north who work in the south and almost every person would have at least one family member who has gone through the travails of partition.  It was a major movement of millions of people from one part to the other leaving behind all their property and belongings.  I am sure it could have been done in a more planned manner.....but emotions were running high during those times and expecting discipline and patience might have been asking for too much.

So...I don't have any direct experience of partition (it was before my time) and nor do I know anyone who has gone through it themselves.


Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 03, 2015, 05:55:18 AM


I am against the institutionalising of differences - be they differences of sex, sexual orientation, ethnic origin, national origin or cultural origin. Sriram maintains that caste is of no importance in modern India. I think that he is being disingenuous - it is how he would like the world to perceive modern India.

I am sure that at the "official" level caste is now outlawed in India and it is little importance among the metropolitan elite. But at other levels and in other places? A mere edict will not remove it.

I referred to an article in a serious journal, written by a respected academic of Indian origin, about the existence of caste-related behaviour among the Indian diaspora in Britain. Sriram rubbished it.



Hi HH

I don't think anyone on these boards would know India as well as I do. I have lived here in South India all my life, lived in the north and eastern parts for some years and traveled to almost all parts of the country.... and I speak more than five languages.

India's diversity and varied culture, customs and lifestyle.... is something you cannot even fathom! Social scientists and historians who have been working on this for decades are unable to get a grip on it.

I know westerners like to make a song and dance about caste and Sati and dowry and arranged marriages....(even eating with fingers and saris)... and so on. 'Oh Indians do that...oh Indians do this' 'Its all so quaint and strange' etc.....as though we are some deviant species and owe everyone else an explanation!   >:(

They have been doing that from the 18th and 19th centuries.....and nothing much has changed in their reporting even today.... though lot has changed in the society.  Its all about what you want to see and about stereotyping and dubbing entire communities as such and such.

Its probably less confusing and less bothersome to do that than actually find out details and segregate people into  different regions and different communities etc. Its much easier to adopt a simplistic ...'oh..these people are all like that'! But it is nevertheless wrong!

The point is that, as probably the sole rep of India here...I cannot accept sweeping generalizations and stereotyping....especially when I  know for a fact that it is not true.   :)


 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 03, 2015, 08:21:20 AM

The point is that, as probably the sole rep of India here...I cannot accept sweeping generalizations and stereotyping....especially when I  know for a fact that it is not true.   :)

But you are quite happy to make similar sweeping generalisations and stereotyping of Western nations and peoples.

If you read these boards you will find that almost all posters have, at one time or another, accepted that the history of their racial or religious group is littered with incidents of various durations of which they are not proud and which the would much prefer had never happened - but the did.

They accept that these things happened and see them dissected and discussed and made public in the media - you, apparently are unable to do the same.

Let's face it when was the last time you heard of the sisters of an adulterous Londoner being sentenced to be raped and paraded through the streets naked!     
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 03, 2015, 08:38:28 AM
Thank you for your considered reply, Sriram. And thank you for not stereotyping me. I am not a member of the "let's knock India" brigade. In my quarter century as a lecturer in higher education I have associated with - as students and colleagues - people from many ethnic and cultural backgrounds as well as people of all sexual orientations. They have enriched my life.

I have never been to India (though have flown over it - but since there was total cloud cover at the time, I cannot even claim to have seen India). I welcome your observations about life in your homeland.

A couple of points.

The tv programme related tales of fathers killing their own daughters, husbands killing their own wives to save them from the indignations (understatement) they believed they would receive. Women killed themselves for the same reasons. I was not commenting on the funny habits of primitive natives - which I think appeared to be your interpretation of my post. I was distressed by the thought of it happening and the unimaginable despair that caused it.

There is a sizable Hindu population in Britain and in some places, Leicester and Wembley come to mind, they have developed significant communities. Many of these people are second, third even fourth generation inhabitants. The original immigrants may well have arrived with firm attitudes about caste which they have passed on to their children. In schools, teachers have noted - among some children of Indian origin - signs of bullying in which caste is being invoked. You mention elsewhere suicides among school children - being bullied has been mentioned as a prime cause for this. Bullies will always look for a potential weakness and position in a social hierarchy plays into their hands.

And in India, the effects and influence of traditional social ordering may have been outlawed at the administrative and organisational levels, but it probably lingers on in individuals particularly in remote rural locations.

And then there is the effect of subculture, and the arbitrary rules and mores used to enforce conformity within the group. In Britain, we are seeing cases of literally hundreds of children and adolescent girls - almost all of whom are in care - being used as sex objects and prosititutes by men. Virtually all the men involved appear to have come from Moslem communities - possibly seeing the girls as having no value as human beings because they are not Moslems. That is one example of the influences of a subculture. There is a second subculture at work here - the "social worker" subculture (riddled with political correctness) which forbids any intimation at all that the perpetrators of this evil may come from a particular ethnic and religious background.

So you see, it isn't just India ....

Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 05, 2015, 06:20:50 AM
Hi HH,

 
Quote

And then there is the effect of subculture, and the arbitrary rules and mores used to enforce conformity within the group. In Britain, we are seeing cases of literally hundreds of children and adolescent girls - almost all of whom are in care - being used as sex objects and prosititutes by men. Virtually all the men involved appear to have come from Moslem communities - possibly seeing the girls as having no value as human beings because they are not Moslems. That is one example of the influences of a subculture. There is a second subculture at work here - the "social worker" subculture (riddled with political correctness) which forbids any intimation at all that the perpetrators of this evil may come from a particular ethnic and religious background.


Any group can be responsible for such activities. They just happen to be muslims in that particular case.

In India many white foreigners (Britishers in many cases) have been caught and jailed for abuse and pornography in the guise of running  orphanages, schools and NGO's.  This is quite common.  We come across at least one case every couple of years. 

Is this because of a subculture of sexual abuse and pedophilia  in the west?!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: jakswan on October 05, 2015, 07:36:21 AM
Moderator:

I did; we're discussing where best to move it to. A subject this serious isn't exactly 'entertainment'.


You should start a 'India' section and post it there.  HH, Johnny, Jakswan, KO and others can also spend their time gleefully discussing caste, partition, Delhi rape, poverty, Sati and so on on that board. Condition should be that only negative aspects are discussed, of course!     ::)

If i make 100 posts one might mention India and even then it's in response to some biased drivel you have posted. Lose the chip on your shoulder and you might be less biased.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 05, 2015, 08:27:35 AM

 We come across at least one case every couple of years. 


In a country the size of India (qv your various statements about population, diversity, cultures, religion etc) this counts for being quite common?

Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 05, 2015, 08:35:17 AM

 We come across at least one case every couple of years. 


In a country the size of India (qv your various statements about population, diversity, cultures, religion etc) this counts for being quite common?



What has the size of the country got to do with it? The number of foreigners running orphanages is not very high. Many of them end up being imprisoned for abuse and pedophilia and trafficking.


Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 05, 2015, 10:22:31 AM

 We come across at least one case every couple of years. 


In a country the size of India (qv your various statements about population, diversity, cultures, religion etc) this counts for being quite common?



What has the size of the country got to do with it? The number of foreigners running orphanages is not very high. Many of them end up being imprisoned for abuse and pedophilia and trafficking.

Sririam

Every post you make on this thread makes you look a bigger arse than the previous one!

Your attitude on this thread stinks - you are pushing an agenda that is obviously racist, based upoin trhe fact that the programme was made in Britain and found family history in India!

Give it, and us, a bloody rest!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 05, 2015, 02:02:54 PM
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 05, 2015, 02:33:50 PM
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.

For a short period of time I worked with two Indian ladies ( at the same time)  no idea if they came from the same part.

One was Hindu and the other was Muslim.

The thing they seemed to have in common was that had they been living in India they would have both been living with their mother in law, who apparently ruled the roost.

Both seemed to be glad to have escaped being under her thumb.

Not sure how common that is in India, to live and be told what to do by the mothering law.

It's just something they shared with me that seemed to be in their culture.
 :o

If what I heard while living on the borders of Southall the Queen Mother-in-Law is social disgrace thgat hgas been imported lock stock and barrel.

At least two girls that I worked with stated that the reason they were dating non-Indian subcontinent origin males was precisely because their ndian subcontinent origin males that they had dated had informed them that the M-I-L would be "in charge" of them if they married.

Walk through Southall or Hounslow today or any day and you will still see wives dutifully walking three paces behind their husbamds.

Because the UK is the only country in the world to enact race discrimination laws that duscriminate against the indiginous population and its laws and traditions of a thousand years the multi-cultural UK will have no British culture left soon.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 05, 2015, 02:38:57 PM
What laws are these that discriminate against the indigenous population?
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 05, 2015, 02:52:41 PM
What laws are these that discriminate against the indigenous population?

How many times have you seen Muslims screeching race and religious hate at public meetings - any arrests - No!


Yell about the iniquities of Islam and there is a riot - any arrests - NO.

After the July 7 bombings there was a protest meeting held attended by people who were mostly white bit with more than a few Afro-Carribeans protesting at the bombings and demanding action to stop any further such activity by Muslims. It was quickly stopped by a large police presence as being likely to cause problems and possible violence.

100 yards away was a group of Muslims praising the bombers and calling for more and bigger bombings. Action by the police - none - they had been told to let the meeting go on as to try and stop would certainly result in violence.

I found this out from and old school friend who was in the police in the area.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 05, 2015, 02:54:07 PM
Those aren't laws that discriminate, even were your anecdotal reports true.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 05, 2015, 03:46:06 PM
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.


LOL!  Precisely what I believed the OP was trying to highlight (surreptitiously)! You have proved my point Rhiannon!
All that beady eyed innocence and being appalled at my first post didn't work for long did it?!  ;D
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 05, 2015, 04:06:51 PM
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 05, 2015, 04:07:09 PM
It's smoke and mirrors designed to deflect our attention from how women were and are treated in parts of India.

For a short period of time I worked with two Indian ladies ( at the same time)  no idea if they came from the same part.

One was Hindu and the other was Muslim.

The thing they seemed to have in common was that had they been living in India they would have both been living with their mother in law, who apparently ruled the roost.

Both seemed to be glad to have escaped being under her thumb.

Not sure how common that is in India, to live and be told what to do by the mothering law.

It's just something they shared with me that seemed to be in their culture.
 :o


Yes Rose.  I know that in Britain and in many western countries the 'family' has lost its value. People are very self centered.   Let alone the in-laws, many people are unable to live with their own parents, husbands, wives and children.

In India it is not so.  In India as in many other traditional societies, families are still important and are very much the centre of our lives. We don't send elders to Homes run by the Govt. We keep them at home with ourselves. So....some adjustment issues will arise. That's the way families work. 

As can be expected, many western people might see their own lifestyle as more progressive, liberal and superior....but we see it as self centered and indulgent.  So....each to their own life style and way of life.  No point is trying to make them meet. 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 05, 2015, 04:11:19 PM
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.


I didn't cry 'racism'. There is no 'race' issue here'. You are bringing in 'race'....not me.

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 05, 2015, 04:20:53 PM
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.


I didn't cry 'racism'. There is no 'race' issue here'. You are bringing in 'race'....not me.

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!

Sririam - you are as blind as Sassy and Alien - you can see no point of view but yoiur own.

This being the case, discussion with you is impossible and attempting it a waste of time. Wallow away in your cesspit of female degradation and pretend that it no longer exists - it is you and people like you who are ensuring that it will never become history as you will not take action to end it because you will not acknowledge that it exists. 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 05, 2015, 04:26:13 PM
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.


I didn't cry 'racism'. There is no 'race' issue here'. You are bringing in 'race'....not me.

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!

It's strange you find stating facts about the abuse of women so amusing.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 05, 2015, 04:30:04 PM
Women are abused the world over, Sriram. Crying 'racism!' every time abuse in India gets a mention does you no credit.


I didn't cry 'racism'. There is no 'race' issue here'. You are bringing in 'race'....not me.

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!

It's strange you find stating facts about the abuse of women so amusing.

Relax, Lady Rhi, he cannot help it. To do otherwise would be to deny all that he has posted and he will not do that.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 05, 2015, 04:57:32 PM


In the UK Sriram families are a lot smaller and often it is parents who want to keep their independance.

Neither of my parents who are divorced want to come and live with me, they both value their independance to much.

My Dad is in his 90's now and is fiercely independant. He is getting frailer but getting him to move out of where he is now is going to be an issue as I think he will fight to stay there even if it ultimately becomes his demise.

My husbands job means I am not close, but fortunately he has some lovely neighbours.

My mother loves being where she is in a ground Floor  flat ( being disabled) with a garden she loves.

It would break her heart to leave it behind.

Neither of them want to go into a home, but they don't want live with me either.

What do you do?

We do value family in the UK, but just because people are old doesn't mean they don't value their independance.

It isn't quite like you seem to want to portray, Sriram.



Rose... you brought up your Indian friends and their mothers-in-law.  Not me.  It all not quite what you want to portray either....!  You need to see that too.


Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 05, 2015, 06:21:30 PM


In the UK Sriram families are a lot smaller and often it is parents who want to keep their independance.

Neither of my parents who are divorced want to come and live with me, they both value their independance to much.

My Dad is in his 90's now and is fiercely independant. He is getting frailer but getting him to move out of where he is now is going to be an issue as I think he will fight to stay there even if it ultimately becomes his demise.

My husbands job means I am not close, but fortunately he has some lovely neighbours.

My mother loves being where she is in a ground Floor  flat ( being disabled) with a garden she loves.

It would break her heart to leave it behind.

Neither of them want to go into a home, but they don't want live with me either.

What do you do?

We do value family in the UK, but just because people are old doesn't mean they don't value their independance.

It isn't quite like you seem to want to portray, Sriram.



Rose... you brought up your Indian friends and their mothers-in-law.  Not me.  It all not quite what you want to portray either....!  You need to see that too.


I mentioned the Mother-in-Law thing as well, but you are ignoring my posts - you gutless coward!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 05, 2015, 06:42:44 PM

I knew for a fact that HH was trying to bring up issues regarding treatment of women in India by highlighting a 65 year old incident which was quite irrelevant in any context here.  You claimed his innocence....and you couldn't help yourself finally! LOL!

You knew nothing of the sort. You are so riddled with your own racism that you see it in other people. Your statement here is contemptible. It is also possibly libellous (I absolve the forum from any responsibility).

I watched a tv programme and was moved by the responses the situation generated in a sensitive woman. I was horrified by the sacrifices men and women endured following what was clearly a botched political decision.



Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: jeremyp on October 05, 2015, 08:15:05 PM
I know that in Britain and in many western countries the 'family' has lost its value.
Clearly you are as uninformed about Britain as we are about India.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: jakswan on October 05, 2015, 08:23:33 PM
As can be expected, many western people might see their own lifestyle as more progressive, liberal and superior....but we see it as self centered and indulgent.  So....each to their own life style and way of life.  No point is trying to make them meet.

Yes we in the west see the caste system as a barbaric.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Udayana on October 05, 2015, 09:53:25 PM
I know that in Britain and in many western countries the 'family' has lost its value.
Clearly you are as uninformed about Britain as we are about India.

One does wonder sometimes ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-34442716

"A daughter "kissed her mother goodbye" before being told she was actually still alive and hospital staff had got the wrong body, it has been revealed."
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 06, 2015, 05:12:23 AM
I know that in Britain and in many western countries the 'family' has lost its value.
Clearly you are as uninformed about Britain as we are about India.

One does wonder sometimes ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-34442716

"A daughter "kissed her mother goodbye" before being told she was actually still alive and hospital staff had got the wrong body, it has been revealed."


Ha! Ha! Ha!.....Good one!  Very likely in Britain!! LOL!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 06, 2015, 05:28:18 AM
I know that in Britain and in many western countries the 'family' has lost its value.
Clearly you are as uninformed about Britain as we are about India.

Yes I was hoping he could share a few insights without taking a stab at Britain because of some imagined slight, but I was out of luck.

Rose,

Actually...there is nothing to share.  Its all about an attitude, not about information. All of us have all the information we need. We just need to see things in the right light.

HH may shout from the top of the roof that he meant no harm....but his thread has no context at all on these boards which is perhaps why he dumped it in the Science section.  ::)  The fact that Rhiannon picked up the issue of women being ill treated etc.....proves what the thread is trying to bring out.  :D


Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 06, 2015, 05:34:18 AM

I just found it interesting that two women both shared shared some cultural aspect about India when they came from different religious traditions.

I wasn't trying to portray anything, actually.


So then...it was not about the women being 'under the thumb' of their mothers in law who were 'ruling the roost'?!! Really?!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 06, 2015, 07:18:09 AM
It was a programme about the abuse of women in India. It's not surprising then that the discussion has been about the abuse of women in India. Had the programme been about the abuse of women elsewhere we would be discussing that. There have been various high profile rape and murder cases on India that have been reported over the past couple of years that have been discussed here but we also discuss our own failings such as in the Oxford and Rotherham abuse scandals, the Jimmy Savile cover-up, and right now the Ched Evans case.

You owe HH an apology.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: trippymonkey on October 06, 2015, 08:14:40 AM
Do I need to remind people just what exactly THIS thread is-WAS all about???
Please all reread the title & the first post !!!

Nick
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 06, 2015, 02:13:07 PM
Hi everyone,

I don't know from where the issue of 'racism' has suddenly been brought up. This is obviously a straw man. I never called anyone a racist.

My issue  was with HH who is a past 'offender'... and who (among others) has several times brought up negative matters related to India into irrelevant threads.   I have already mentioned that.  I have no patience to dig them out now for your reference.

So....any thread started by him containing negative references about India and which is obviously out of context... is dubious and possibly a wind up. That is all it is about.

The fact that so many people are rushing so vehemently to support HH makes it all the more dubious IMO!  :D

If I repeatedly mentioned in irrelevant threads...

... the number of single teenage mothers in UK

... or school shootings in the US

... or black killings by cops in the US

... or the number of  married women (mothers) in UK and US taking up jobs in the porn industry to make ends meet

... or girls being kidnapped and kept as sex slaves for decades

... or young children being killed by their parents (in washing machines, beaten with rods, in microwaves, in hot car parks)

... or young girls raped by their step fathers or biological fathers helped along by the mothers

... or groups where designated persons are used to rape women in front of their husbands

... and many more such matters....

most of you will not like it and will raise objections, I am sure.   I am also doing the same thing....nothing more.

Cheers.

Sriram 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 06, 2015, 03:08:07 PM
Hi everyone,

I don't know from where the issue of 'racism' has suddenly been brought up. This is obviously a straw man. I never called anyone a racist.

My issue  was with HH who is a past 'offender'... and who (among others) has several times brought up negative matters related to India into irrelevant threads.   I have already mentioned that.  I have no patience to dig them out now for your reference.

So....any thread started by him containing negative references about India and which is obviously out of context... is dubious and possibly a wind up. That is all it is about.

The fact that so many people are rushing so vehemently to support HH makes it all the more dubious IMO!  :D

If I repeatedly mentioned in irrelevant threads...

... the number of single teenage mothers in UK

... or school shootings in the US

... or black killings by cops in the US

... or the number of  married women (mothers) in UK and US taking up jobs in the porn industry to make ends meet

... or girls being kidnapped and kept as sex slaves for decades

... or young children being killed by their parents (in washing machines, beaten with rods, in microwaves, in hot car parks)

... or young girls raped by their step fathers or biological fathers helped along by the mothers

... or groups where designated persons are used to rape women in front of their husbands

... and many more such matters....

most of you will not like it and will raise objections, I am sure.   I am also doing the same thing....nothing more.

Cheers.

Sriram

What a load of rubbish.

What you are trying to defend is murder or suicide as a defence against religiously inspired rape!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 06, 2015, 04:22:27 PM
I think he's saying we're Indianist.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 06, 2015, 04:46:51 PM
CHALLENGE

Quote
My issue  was with HH who is a past 'offender'... and who (among others) has several times brought up negative matters related to India into irrelevant threads.   I have already mentioned that.  I have no patience to dig them out now for your reference.

So....any thread started by him containing negative references about India and which is obviously out of context... is dubious and possibly a wind up. That is all it is about.

Find the patience to identify and present the "several times" I have "brought up negative matters" about India - indicating why they are negative, providing appropriate evidence for your view.

Identify "any thread ... containing negative references about India" and show that it is "out of context", providing evidence why it would be "dubious and possibly a wind up".

You won't be able to. You have appointed yourself prosecutor, judge and jury in your own drumhead court and are manufacturing your own evidence.

You know nothing about me at all and yet you presume to know my thoughts, attitudes and opinions. You are exposing yourself as being very, very, foolish.



Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 06, 2015, 04:47:46 PM
I think he's saying we're Indianist.

If defending women from the horrendous chauvenist values championed by Sririam is being Indianist - you're damned right I am!

Just becasue they are traditional and only practiced rurally does not mean they are in any way acceptable. IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: jakswan on October 07, 2015, 12:38:18 PM
Hi everyone,

I don't know from where the issue of 'racism' has suddenly been brought up. This is obviously a straw man. I never called anyone a racist.

My issue  was with HH who is a past 'offender'... and who (among others) has several times brought up negative matters related to India into irrelevant threads.   I have already mentioned that.  I have no patience to dig them out now for your reference.

So....any thread started by him containing negative references about India and which is obviously out of context... is dubious and possibly a wind up. That is all it is about.

The fact that so many people are rushing so vehemently to support HH makes it all the more dubious IMO!  :D

If I repeatedly mentioned in irrelevant threads...

... the number of single teenage mothers in UK

... or school shootings in the US

... or black killings by cops in the US

... or the number of  married women (mothers) in UK and US taking up jobs in the porn industry to make ends meet

... or girls being kidnapped and kept as sex slaves for decades

... or young children being killed by their parents (in washing machines, beaten with rods, in microwaves, in hot car parks)

... or young girls raped by their step fathers or biological fathers helped along by the mothers

... or groups where designated persons are used to rape women in front of their husbands

... and many more such matters....

most of you will not like it and will raise objections, I am sure.   I am also doing the same thing....nothing more.

Cheers.

Sriram

The theme of your posts very often is 'issue in Western society' in itself no major issue however when you say 'issue in Western society much better in Indian society' then you make a comparative statement.

This in turns suggest you are advocating that the Western society should be more like Indian society, so when we express an opinion that it isn't, e.g. the caste is system is disgusting, its a fair comment, in light of the discussion that very often you started.

Who Do You Think You Are is a popular TV show and this was quite a moving episode. Lose the chip on your shoulder.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 07, 2015, 02:38:01 PM
Hi everyone,

I don't know from where the issue of 'racism' has suddenly been brought up. This is obviously a straw man. I never called anyone a racist.

My issue  was with HH who is a past 'offender'... and who (among others) has several times brought up negative matters related to India into irrelevant threads.   I have already mentioned that.  I have no patience to dig them out now for your reference.

So....any thread started by him containing negative references about India and which is obviously out of context... is dubious and possibly a wind up. That is all it is about.

The fact that so many people are rushing so vehemently to support HH makes it all the more dubious IMO!  :D

If I repeatedly mentioned in irrelevant threads...

... the number of single teenage mothers in UK

... or school shootings in the US

... or black killings by cops in the US

... or the number of  married women (mothers) in UK and US taking up jobs in the porn industry to make ends meet

... or girls being kidnapped and kept as sex slaves for decades

... or young children being killed by their parents (in washing machines, beaten with rods, in microwaves, in hot car parks)

... or young girls raped by their step fathers or biological fathers helped along by the mothers

... or groups where designated persons are used to rape women in front of their husbands

... and many more such matters....

most of you will not like it and will raise objections, I am sure.   I am also doing the same thing....nothing more.

Cheers.

Sriram

The theme of your posts very often is 'issue in Western society' in itself no major issue however when you say 'issue in Western society much better in Indian society' then you make a comparative statement.

This in turns suggest you are advocating that the Western society should be more like Indian society, so when we express an opinion that it isn't, e.g. the caste is system is disgusting, its a fair comment, in light of the discussion that very often you started.

Who Do You Think You Are is a popular TV show and this was quite a moving episode. Lose the chip on your shoulder.

The chip on Sririam's shoulder in the matter that he hates the fact that practices that the British and other Europeans attempted to stamp out as being barbaric still exist and the British and other Europeans still consider them barbaric is of such a size that, if chopped up into managable pieces, it woulkd supply KFC and McDonals both for years.

His consistent postings relating to the failings of the West strike me as being the attempts of someone with a huge inferiority complex to reduce the cause of their inferiority complex to a level that they can manage without conytinuing to feel inferior.

If Sririam concetrated upon the good things that India has achieved instead of trying to justify the negatives that still exist in India it would be better.

One of the things that needs to improve in India is the matter under discussion, the barbaric treatment of woman in the rural areas whcih no-one in a place of power in India seems to consider worth attending to; another is the horredous void that exists between the rich and those living at a level of poverty that few in this country can even concieve.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on October 07, 2015, 05:10:19 PM
Sriram,
let me understand you. You don't like it when, after you put up a post critical of the west, I put up one about the same goings on in your India. And here you are doing exactly that. HH mentions a horror that happened in your country and you want us to focus on something bad going on in the west. I would laugh at you if this wasn't such a tragic story.

My parents close friends were missionaries in India for over twenty years. When their time in India was drawing to a close they came across a young boy who was living on garbage in the back streets of Bombay. You see his Hindu family kicked him out of the home when he was about 5 or 6yrs old. Why? Because this boy was an albino and his hindu parents believed he was full of bad spirits and because of his presence in their house, would bring bad things on the family. So after getting Chandra to a childrens home and a couple years of working through the maze of the Indian government, this boy was allowed to leave India for Canada and our friends adopted him. The last time I saw him he had grown up and was running our church's children camp. From what I have heard he is now blind but happy and well.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 08, 2015, 06:43:22 AM
Sriram,
let me understand you. You don't like it when, after you put up a post critical of the west, I put up one about the same goings on in your India. And here you are doing exactly that. HH mentions a horror that happened in your country and you want us to focus on something bad going on in the west.


Hi Johnny,

I am glad you admit that every time I post something critical of the west ...you put up one about the same goings on in India.  That was exactly my point. Thank you for that. At least you are honest.  :)

And it is not just you, there are some others who do the same too. No one else has however admitted it honestly....as expected.  ::) 

And this does not happen only when I discuss social issues of the west....it happens even when I discuss spirituality, reincarnation, karma and Hindu philosophy...someone or the other gleefully brings up some social issue in India as a means of putting me down. They don't seem to be able to stop themselves....its automatic.  LOL!  What a bunch!!

The point is simple. This is a forum started by a British person and most people here are British and some are possibly Americans. I am the only Indian here.  So...posting social problems related to the UK or US cannot be considered as unusual or unwarranted. When we are not discussing religion and spirituality here we should be discussing social issues related to these countries.

Posting issues connected to Britain or America...is not without context or without relevance because that's what this forum calls for and that's what the General Discussion section is for!  Merely because I happen to be an Indian does not in any way mean that I should not post problems connected to Britain or America in this forum.  They are perfectly relevant here regardless of who posts them.

On the other hand...how are issues related to India of any relevance to these boards and what do any of you know about India in the first place besides picking up random news items and taking delight in pointing out its problems??!! As you admitted...its just a way of showing me up.....nothing more. 

If 100 people in India who have never lived in or been to Britain, start off discussions about social issues in Britain...and if a lone British person tries to explain or defend his country....they start a tirade against him. That would be ridiculous and spiteful! That is exactly what you people are doing.  >:(

And the fact that you have again chosen this thread to point out some irrelevant and perhaps 50 year old second hand information about a albino boy...brings out what I am trying to say. You are just looking for reasons to post such matters without any context or relevance and take delight in it.  And that is my objection.

Ok...I am done explaining myself here.   :D

Thanks & Cheers.

Sriram



 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 08, 2015, 08:07:38 AM

On the other hand...how are issues related to India of any relevance to these boards and what do any of you know about India in the first place . . .

Sriram


It is about time you got shot of the "everybody is against me" chip on your shoulder; most of what the posters on this board know of India comes either from you or from the media, Western media frequently quoting India media, and you instantly jumping to defend you country, its population and its attitudes and practices with virtually no regard for the way in which these things are viewed in the West as being indefensible does ypou no credit.

Yes, the West has many things oin it's past that are far from commendable and, for the most part, we are not exactly proud of them but will admit to them.

The main point of criticism of your view of India is the fact that you appear to consider that practices such as those under discussion in this thread, condsidered by the West to be not only outdated but truly barbaric, are justified by the fact that India is a large place with places where modern civilsation and civilised values have not yet reached, or, where they have reached, have been rejected.

Added to this it should also be noted that there is nowhere in the West where western religions are the basis for violent and barbaric attempts to force those religions onto others who, quite obviously, do not want those religions. Let's dace it, the partition of India and Pakaistan was necessary because of the treatment of the minority Muslims by the Sikhs and Hindus.

You are, I have no doubt, truly sincere in you patriotism but you do, on many occasions, allow that patriotism to blinker you to the deficiencies in your country and of your countrymen.   
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: jakswan on October 08, 2015, 09:15:33 AM
Hi Johnny,

I am glad you admit that every time I post something critical of the west ...you put up one about the same goings on in India.  That was exactly my point. Thank you for that. At least you are honest.  :)

And it is not just you, there are some others who do the same too. No one else has however admitted it honestly....as expected.  ::) 

I've explained what I do so don't bracket me with JC.

Quote
The point is simple. This is a forum started by a British person and most people here are British and some are possibly Americans. I am the only Indian here.  So...posting social problems related to the UK or US cannot be considered as unusual or unwarranted. When we are not discussing religion and spirituality here we should be discussing social issues related to these countries.

Not it isn't and when you don't make a comparison to India I don't either.

Quote
Posting issues connected to Britain or America...is not without context or without relevance because that's what this forum calls for and that's what the General Discussion section is for!  Merely because I happen to be an Indian does not in any way mean that I should not post problems connected to Britain or America in this forum.  They are perfectly relevant here regardless of who posts them.

And I have said you shouldn't.

Quote
On the other hand...how are issues related to India of any relevance to these boards and what do any of you know about India in the first place besides picking up random news items and taking delight in pointing out its problems??!! As you admitted...its just a way of showing me up.....nothing more. 

What on earth are you on about, if you post an issue in the UK it doesn't mean you show me up, and vice versa, we don't run countries.

Quote
If 100 people in India who have never lived in or been to Britain, start off discussions about social issues in Britain...and if a lone British person tries to explain or defend his country....they start a tirade against him. That would be ridiculous and spiteful! That is exactly what you people are doing.  >:(

We have a mix of posters here, I'll defend what I say, no one speaks for me apart from me. Apart from a few rabid Scots and you nationality is largely irrelevant to these boards. 

Quote
And the fact that you have again chosen this thread to point out some irrelevant and perhaps 50 year old second hand information about a albino boy...brings out what I am trying to say. You are just looking for reasons to post such matters without any context or relevance and take delight in it.  And that is my objection.

Fair point needs to be addressed to JC, I'm not defending him because he in no way represents me.

Quote
Ok...I am done explaining myself here.   :D

Nope.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 08, 2015, 09:17:59 AM
We have a mix of posters here, I'll defend what I say, no one speaks for me apart from me. Apart from a few rabid Scots and you nationality is largely irrelevant to these boards. 

Irony alert! Irony alert!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: jakswan on October 08, 2015, 09:54:56 AM
We have a mix of posters here, I'll defend what I say, no one speaks for me apart from me. Apart from a few rabid Scots and you nationality is largely irrelevant to these boards. 

Irony alert! Irony alert!

Please expand.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 08, 2015, 10:39:56 AM
We have a mix of posters here, I'll defend what I say, no one speaks for me apart from me. Apart from a few rabid Scots and you nationality is largely irrelevant to these boards. 

Irony alert! Irony alert!

Please expand.

Let's see - all these rabid Scots - a few must be at least 3. Jim, you might argue but he's very clearly and continually emphasised his civic nationalism. Of the forum, King Oberon is probably the next most vociferous but again is a civic nationalist. Who else?

As to it just being those of us Scots who are rabid and Srsiram - I'd suggest that there are people on here arguing that we shouldn't accept refugees because of the damage to 'our' culture who are more easily categorised as bringing up nationality in this way.


Therefore I suspect that it is your antipathy to the SNP that is causing your view and is therefore irony.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Udayana on October 08, 2015, 10:45:19 AM
I don't see why we should have any restrictions on discussion topics related to nation or nationality. It is true that there is much ignorance, but discussion is one way of reducing this. People may, or may not, make their own moral judgments about issues in different countries, but the board is hardly trying to establish an international moral pecking order.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: The Accountant, OBE, KC on October 08, 2015, 10:57:56 AM
Hi HH,

 
Quote

And then there is the effect of subculture, and the arbitrary rules and mores used to enforce conformity within the group. In Britain, we are seeing cases of literally hundreds of children and adolescent girls - almost all of whom are in care - being used as sex objects and prosititutes by men. Virtually all the men involved appear to have come from Moslem communities - possibly seeing the girls as having no value as human beings because they are not Moslems. That is one example of the influences of a subculture. There is a second subculture at work here - the "social worker" subculture (riddled with political correctness) which forbids any intimation at all that the perpetrators of this evil may come from a particular ethnic and religious background.


Any group can be responsible for such activities. They just happen to be muslims in that particular case.

In India many white foreigners (Britishers in many cases) have been caught and jailed for abuse and pornography in the guise of running  orphanages, schools and NGO's.  This is quite common.  We come across at least one case every couple of years. 

Is this because of a subculture of sexual abuse and pedophilia  in the west?!
The idea that the abuse by predatory Pakistani gangs in Rotherham was only aimed at white girls has been revised after further investigation showed that Pakistani girls were also abused by members of their community but were afraid to approach social services or the police for help. 

The girls in care did not speak out because they were threatened by their abusers, or when they did speak out nothing was done by social services or the police. The girls from ethnic minority communities, which often tend to be conservative communities, did not speak out because they were worried about being killed by their abuser, worried they wouldn't be believed or that social services or the police would not help and also worried about being ostracised by their families for bringing shame on themselves and their families by being sexually abused.

IMO both the programme in the OP about India and the sexual abuse cases in Rotheram highlight the specific problems caused by the cultural idea that the 'value' of women is connected to some notion of sexual purity and that a family member connected to a 'devalued' woman is also somehow devalued or shamed. That is an interesting value to explore and IMO that value should be challenged and eradicated.

That is not intended to deflect attention from or minimise the specific problems highlighted by Sriram about  the sub-culture that lead to groups of relatively rich Western sexual tourists or NGOs in India sexually abusing Indian children in a systematic way by exploiting the economic disparity between abuser and victim. Of course the sense of privilege, superiority and abuse of power from having money should also be challlenged and eradicated.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: jakswan on October 08, 2015, 11:13:16 AM
Let's see - all these rabid Scots - a few must be at least 3. Jim, you might argue but he's very clearly and continually emphasised his civic nationalism. Of the forum, King Oberon is probably the next most vociferous but again is a civic nationalist. Who else?

I don't think you are a rabid Scot, I'll rephrase to a couple.

Quote
As to it just being those of us Scots who are rabid and Srsiram - I'd suggest that there are people on here arguing that we shouldn't accept refugees because of the damage to 'our' culture who are more easily categorised as bringing up nationality in this way.

I forgot how pedantic you can be let me totally rephrase:-

Nationality is rarely brought up on these forums, it is brought up by Siriam who makes comparative statements, actually that it is normally more cultural, East v West, but in the post it was Britain / India. It is often brought up by a couple of Scots, actually its mainly one who goes on and on and on, and who in my opinion is rabid.

Quote
Therefore I suspect that it is your antipathy to the SNP that is causing your view and is therefore irony.

No I've said that SNP is fantastic political party and I have much respect to them, I don't like what they stand for but that is my political view.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Udayana on October 08, 2015, 11:36:04 AM
...
IMO both the programme in the OP about India and the sexual abuse cases in Rotheram highlight the specific problems caused by the cultural idea that the 'value' of women is connected to some notion of sexual purity and that a family member connected to a 'devalued' woman is also somehow devalued or shamed. That is an interesting value to explore and IMO that value should be challenged and eradicated.

That is not intended to deflect attention from or minimise the specific problems highlighted by Sriram about  the sub-culture that lead to groups of relatively rich Western sexual tourists or NGOs in India sexually abusing Indian children in a systematic way by exploiting the economic disparity between abuser and victim. Of course the sense of privilege, superiority and abuse of power from having money should also be challlenged and eradicated.

Certainly agree that the paternalistic regressive attitudes equating sexual "purity" of a woman with family honor or shame should be eliminated. But the issue was far worse than this at the time of partition. Women would either be murdered after being raped or taken into sexual slavery. Men would mostly be killed outright.

The closest we have today is the systematic rape and enslavement of the Yazidi women and massacres by ISIS. Many would consider suicide as the preferable option if they were defeated or unable to fight. Captured children are separated and indoctrinated, forced to become ISIS fighters or abused and killed.

This is also similar to some of the crimes committed by the LRA in Africa and not really comparable to the exploitation of third world children by paedophiles, sex tourists or "charity" workers - which of-course must also be eliminated.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: The Accountant, OBE, KC on October 08, 2015, 11:58:10 AM
Yes - there was an article about how a woman's body was considered a trophy by mobs during partition and how the sexual slavery of women was a way of consuming and eradicating and humiliating the other community - so Hindu, Sikh and Muslim women were abducted and kept by members of the other community.

http://www.womenundersiegeproject.org/blog/entry/rape-accounts-still-surface-from-indias-partition-65-years-on

This is an interesting read to identify reasons why it is important to remember these horrific historical events, even though they are painful to think about. It compares partition to the atrocities of Japan's sexual slavery and how talking about these events could influence attitudes today.

http://www.india-seminar.com/2001/497/497%20urvashi%20butalia.htm
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: The Accountant, OBE, KC on October 08, 2015, 12:15:24 PM
This is also similar to some of the crimes committed by the LRA in Africa and not really comparable to the exploitation of third world children by paedophiles, sex tourists or "charity" workers - which of-course must also be eliminated.
The exploitation of 3rd world children and the crimes in Rotherham against white and ethnic minority children might well be better discussed on different threads from this one but they do seem to be forms of sexual slavery enforced through violence.

The degrees of violence in each case might be different - it's difficult to know until the media decide to publicise it. Certainly ISIS sex slavery and sexual violence in the Democratic Republic of Congo have been well publicised. And German atrocities against Russian women and Russian atrocities against German women in WW2 are also well publicised. So I don't see the problem of discussing atrocities that took place during Partition.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 08, 2015, 08:37:10 PM

The exploitation of 3rd world children and the crimes in Rotherham against white and ethnic minority children might well be better discussed on different threads from this one . . .


OK -I am white - well pink actually - but hey - a rose by any other name . . . but I disagree that this should be on another thread.

The abuse in Rotherham was carried out exlusively by men from the Indian sub-continent. It was stated several times during the trial that the men involved considered that the white girls did not deserve any respect at all they, like many males, and not just first-generation immigrants, from India/Pakistan subscribe to the belief that "white girls are easy!"

Unfortunately far too many are exactly that. However this kind of systematic abuse of girls was not a problem until the Indian/Pakistani attitude that sees all women as being less entitled to respect entered the equation via immigration and the attitude was passed oen from fathers to sons. Importantly however, not from all fathers to sons.

As far as I am concerned there is nowhere in the world where any female, regardless of age, should be considered to have a lesser right to the same level of respect as is given to males.

Sririam seems to consider that because there are matters, specified in a lengthy post above, in which the West is far from perfect, it jutifies his view that we in the West should ignore similar impoerfections in India and Pakistan.

Ye Gods and Goddesses, I am the first to admit that I, personally, am far from perfect, that the U K is far from perfect and problem free in the treatment of women and that the Western world could do with a vigourous shake in the same area, but this does not mean that we have to condone the behaviour somehere where the barbarity and unacceptability of such behaviour, just because it is "traditional" is accepted, in fact, is frequently ignored at every level of the society, especially by those who have the authority to act against it.

This is not a matter of racism - it is a matter of being civilised regardless of race.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Udayana on October 09, 2015, 11:18:35 AM
Matthew,
Agree entirely.

Though it should be noted that the street child exploitation gangs were not Indian origin, even Muslim Indian, and based on attitudes and "modus operandi" developed within the UK Pakistani sub-culture - not to say that it does not have equivalents elsewhere or has not since been adopted by others.

Nowhere is perfect and, further, there is no perfect system, as people have a natural inclination to skew things in their own favour, exploiting others and ultimately corrupting and pulling down the whole edifice.

And why not? As there is no accepted absolute morality or ultimate purpose to anything there is no universal rule that women should be equal to men or children should not be thrown down wells or whatever. Ultimately it is your own choice: if you want to live in, or work towards,, a world that runs in accordance with what you feel, believe or have concluded is moral, the only way of doing that is to discuss, educate, persuade and, above all, demonstrate that your way works and is actually best for all concerned - together with other likewise minded, civilised and reasonable people.
 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: BashfulAnthony on October 09, 2015, 01:45:04 PM

The exploitation of 3rd world children and the crimes in Rotherham against white and ethnic minority children might well be better discussed on different threads from this one . . .


OK -I am white - well pink actually - but hey - a rose by any other name . . . but I disagree that this should be on another thread.

The abuse in Rotherham was carried out exlusively by men from the Indian sub-continent. It was stated several times during the trial that the men involved considered that the white girls did not deserve any respect at all they, like many males, and not just first-generation immigrants, from India/Pakistan subscribe to the belief that "white girls are easy!"

Unfortunately far too many are exactly that. However this kind of systematic abuse of girls was not a problem until the Indian/Pakistani attitude that sees all women as being less entitled to respect entered the equation via immigration and the attitude was passed oen from fathers to sons. Importantly however, not from all fathers to sons.

As far as I am concerned there is nowhere in the world where any female, regardless of age, should be considered to have a lesser right to the same level of respect as is given to males.

Sririam seems to consider that because there are matters, specified in a lengthy post above, in which the West is far from perfect, it jutifies his view that we in the West should ignore similar impoerfections in India and Pakistan.

Ye Gods and Goddesses, I am the first to admit that I, personally, am far from perfect, that the U K is far from perfect and problem free in the treatment of women and that the Western world could do with a vigourous shake in the same area, but this does not mean that we have to condone the behaviour somehere where the barbarity and unacceptability of such behaviour, just because it is "traditional" is accepted, in fact, is frequently ignored at every level of the society, especially by those who have the authority to act against it.

This is not a matter of racism - it is a matter of being civilised regardless of race.

I trust you don't have the hypocrisy to include yourself in the "civilised" group!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 09, 2015, 04:15:33 PM

The exploitation of 3rd world children and the crimes in Rotherham against white and ethnic minority children might well be better discussed on different threads from this one . . .


OK -I am white - well pink actually - but hey - a rose by any other name . . . but I disagree that this should be on another thread.

The abuse in Rotherham was carried out exlusively by men from the Indian sub-continent. It was stated several times during the trial that the men involved considered that the white girls did not deserve any respect at all they, like many males, and not just first-generation immigrants, from India/Pakistan subscribe to the belief that "white girls are easy!"

Unfortunately far too many are exactly that. However this kind of systematic abuse of girls was not a problem until the Indian/Pakistani attitude that sees all women as being less entitled to respect entered the equation via immigration and the attitude was passed oen from fathers to sons. Importantly however, not from all fathers to sons.

As far as I am concerned there is nowhere in the world where any female, regardless of age, should be considered to have a lesser right to the same level of respect as is given to males.

Sririam seems to consider that because there are matters, specified in a lengthy post above, in which the West is far from perfect, it jutifies his view that we in the West should ignore similar impoerfections in India and Pakistan.

Ye Gods and Goddesses, I am the first to admit that I, personally, am far from perfect, that the U K is far from perfect and problem free in the treatment of women and that the Western world could do with a vigourous shake in the same area, but this does not mean that we have to condone the behaviour somehere where the barbarity and unacceptability of such behaviour, just because it is "traditional" is accepted, in fact, is frequently ignored at every level of the society, especially by those who have the authority to act against it.

This is not a matter of racism - it is a matter of being civilised regardless of race.

I trust you don't have the hypocrisy to include yourself in the "civilised" group!

Better than you who would trust Jesus if he gave you a nine-bob note - yes I do - I meant exactly what I said that the practices that Seririam is either defending or claiming are acceptable because they only exist in backward and rural areas are barbaric and uncivilised, but then, to you, anyone who questions your values, comments or religion is a hypocrite.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on October 10, 2015, 12:18:12 AM
Sriram,
What do you mean second hand news? Chandra is only a couple years younger than I so we were in the same Sunday school until my family left for the country life. His adopted parents were missionaries supported by the congregation and they were friends of my parents probably 20 years before I was adopted. No, it's not second hand when you know and were actually a part of the event. By this I mean I remember when they came home on furlough and brought the situation with Chandra to the congregations attention. We all got behind and supported this couple with prayers and with letter writing and financial help eventually getting the fella to Canada and adopted by this couple. Is it hard for you to fathom that some people are superstitious about albinos? You won't deny that that city is the street children capital of the world will you?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amZsgS3wnn0
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 10, 2015, 05:51:17 AM

Johnny,

I have never ever heard of albinos being abandoned or ill treated in India. I have seen plenty of albinos around and they get along as normally as any one else (some are even mistaken for white foreigners sometimes!).  I knew one girl in school in the 60's who was an albino and she even married later....though she developed major problems with her eyesight subsequently.  She was treated perfectly normally at school and everywhere else.

So....please stop pulling rabbits out of hats!  You are clearly obsessed with India issues....and you are allowing your negative programming about India to influence you rather more than is wise. Just get over it.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 10, 2015, 07:12:17 AM

. . .  you are allowing your negative programming about India to influence you rather more than is wise. Just get over it.


Translation - I have dropped a damn great gooley on this thread and am now trying to back out of it!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 10, 2015, 08:22:17 AM
Rose,

There is no such fear of albinos or any superstition or anything of that sort in India. There are plenty of albinos around and as normal as anyone else.

Johnny is just developing a compulsive disorder I think.  :) 

He keeps coming up with something or the other at random!   Seems to keep a ready stock of negative anecdotes about India and starts firing at the first hint of any discussion on it.   ;)

PS: But  I don't feel any malice or spite from him somehow...which is why I bother to reply and clarify to his posts. So far so good!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 10, 2015, 08:59:09 AM
Rose,

There is no such fear of albinos or any superstition or anything of that sort in India. There are plenty of albinos around and as normal as anyone else.

Johnny is just developing a compulsive disorder I think.  :) 

He keeps coming up with something or the other at random!   Seems to keep a ready stock of negative anecdotes about India and starts firing at the first hint of any discussion on it.   ;)

PS: But  I don't feel any malice or spite from him somehow...which is why I bother to reply and clarify to his posts. So far so good!

So far, so good?

That is more than can be said for your attempts to justify the barbaric actions that are the subject of the OP! A subject from which you have spectacularly failed to divert attention.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on October 10, 2015, 07:51:25 PM
Excuse me Sirarm. I didn't claim this was wide spread in India at all. It was a case that i know personally and that family was told to get the boy out of the house by a Hindu religious leader.  A Hindu priest with superstitions is not unusual.

http://lexquest.in/study-on-albinism-in-india-and-its-social-impact/
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 12, 2015, 07:00:12 AM
Excuse me Sirarm. I didn't claim this was wide spread in India at all. It was a case that i know personally and that family was told to get the boy out of the house by a Hindu religious leader.  A Hindu priest with superstitions is not unusual.

http://lexquest.in/study-on-albinism-in-india-and-its-social-impact/

Johnny,

It is not just NOT widespread...but discrimination against albinos is something I have not even heard of in India!  You really must stop pulling out such individual incidents and highlighting them as though they are a way of life. 

I have heard of redheads being attacked in Britain (some very recent incidents too!).  You don't want the world to think that this is a way of life in Britain..do you?! 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 12, 2015, 09:21:10 AM
Excuse me Sirarm. I didn't claim this was wide spread in India at all. It was a case that i know personally and that family was told to get the boy out of the house by a Hindu religious leader.  A Hindu priest with superstitions is not unusual.

http://lexquest.in/study-on-albinism-in-india-and-its-social-impact/

Johnny,

It is not just NOT widespread...but discrimination against albinos is something I have not even heard of in India!  You really must stop pulling out such individual incidents and highlighting them as though they are a way of life. 

I have heard of redheads being attacked in Britain (some very recent incidents too!).  You don't want the world to think that this is a way of life in Britain..do you?!

JC knows nothing of life in Britain - he is on the other side of the Atlantic!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Leonard James on October 12, 2015, 10:20:34 AM


JC knows nothing of life in Britain - he is on the other side of the Atlantic!

JC's view of life is sadly biased by his odd beliefs.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 12, 2015, 11:01:03 AM
Sriram, people can be attacked for being redheads, dressing a certain way (a girl was murdered in a park not so long ago because she was a 'goth' ie dressed a certain way), or being fat. We are in many ways still a 'lookist' society and a consumerist one, and a lot of people are insecure about who they are, which makes them lash out at others. Add to that the drinking culture and there are real problems. Across society as a whole this doesn't usually result in violence, but it does lead to low self esteem, which you could say is almost epidemic given the links between it and depression, anxiety, weight gain, eating disorders, binge drinking etc etc.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: BashfulAnthony on October 12, 2015, 02:02:36 PM


JC knows nothing of life in Britain - he is on the other side of the Atlantic!

JC's view of lif...

Everybody is wrong, or biased, except you of course.  Does it not enter your "thinking,"  that you are extremely atronising?
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 12, 2015, 02:14:22 PM


JC knows nothing of life in Britain - he is on the other side of the Atlantic!

JC's view of lif...

Everybody is wrong, or biased, except you of course.  Does it not enter your "thinking,"  that you are extremely atronising?

One - the word has a 'p' at the beginning 'patronising; - except in America where it is, incorrectly, spelt patronizing.

Two - JC can be the MOST patronising of Christians and Transatlantics when his opinions are questioned.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on October 12, 2015, 05:05:18 PM
Sriram,
You will agree that Mumbai is the street children capital of the world?

Dearst matty,
At least I've been to your UK and I happen to love the UK. You have never been to N America and spout you vile against the USA out of your complete and total pig-ignorance.

Leo,
I find much of what you spew is a product of you anger at Christianity and God. You are a very biased fella yourself.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Sriram on October 12, 2015, 05:27:17 PM
Sriram,
You will agree that Mumbai is the street children capital of the world?


Yes...so what's that got to do with anything? There are 400 million poor people in India. You have any problems with that or plan to do anything about it?!

Don't just throw any old thing at me... please.

Come on Johnny...you are not normally a malicious fella. You just have a bee in your bonnet about India. Get over it.   Lots of good things in India too....and its getting better. There are lots of Canadians and Americans who have made India their home and love it.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: trippymonkey on October 12, 2015, 06:35:59 PM
JC
Ever been to ANY part of India, well... besides Goa maybe?? Probably not....
Now, I HAVE & many, many times.
Even went over to Sri Lanka to extend my Visa once. NOW Sri lanka has a very different aura & feel to it ?!?!?

Nick
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 12, 2015, 08:27:32 PM


Dearst this word is spelt dearEst matty,
At least I've been to your UK and I happen to love the UK. You have never been to N America and spout you vile the word you want is "bile" against the USA out of your complete and total pig-ignorance.


I have been to San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and Dallas mand I can honestly say that I like America but cannot stand Americans.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on October 14, 2015, 11:58:05 PM
My special friend Matty,
America is it's people. Really, you expect me to believe you have been to those cities with all your pig-ignorant remarks about America? Thanks for all the spelling corrections. I think you should be more concerned about your bacterial puffs than my spelling, but whatever puts the bubbles in your cauldron.
I think the word you want is AND. "...mand I can honestly say..."  Too funny you!
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 15, 2015, 01:17:40 AM
My special friend Matty,
America is it's people. Really, you expect me to believe you have been to those cities with all your pig-ignorant remarks about America? Thanks for all the spelling corrections. I think you should be more concerned about your bacterial puffs than my spelling, but whatever puts the bubbles in your cauldron.
I think the word you want is AND. "...mand I can honestly say..."  Too funny you!

PDNFCFR
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 15, 2015, 08:51:06 AM


Dearst this word is spelt dearEst matty,
At least I've been to your UK and I happen to love the UK. You have never been to N America and spout you vile the word you want is "bile" against the USA out of your complete and total pig-ignorance.


I have been to San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and Dallas mand I can honestly say that I like America but cannot stand Americans.

I can't stand some Americans and some American ideals that some Americans have. But I grew up around Americans because of my mum's work, and the majority I knew/know are kindly, thoughtful and without a doubt among the most generous people I've ever encountered.

And one of my kids has an American best friend, and she's a lovely person to be around.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 15, 2015, 09:38:08 AM


Dearst this word is spelt dearEst matty,
At least I've been to your UK and I happen to love the UK. You have never been to N America and spout you vile the word you want is "bile" against the USA out of your complete and total pig-ignorance.


I have been to San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and Dallas mand I can honestly say that I like America but cannot stand Americans.

I can't stand some Americans and some American ideals that some Americans have. But I grew up around Americans because of my mum's work, and the majority I knew/know are kindly, thoughtful and without a doubt among the most generous people I've ever encountered.

And one of my kids has an American best friend, and she's a lovely person to be around.

Oh, I don't doubt that there are some Americans who a thoroughly decent people. However, when in a large group and on home territory . . .

My time in the States was during the Vietnam war, and I was there with a show from Sydney after we received an invitation as a "Thank You" for our contribution to the R and R effort in Sydney. The thing that irritated the Aussies and the Kiwis in our party was the Americans pointblank refusal to accept that America and Americans were not Numero Uno in absolutely eveyrthing and would argue all night with anyone who disgreed. 
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Rhiannon on October 15, 2015, 11:19:18 AM
I remember going out to dinner with a bunch of Americans and spending the entire evening trying to explain to one of them that England is a country and not the equivalent to a U.S. state.  ;D

I think the States was a different place before and during Vietnam - they've learned a lot, including how much they are hated by many. But then Americans are taught in school to love and respect their country, which doesn't happen much here.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 15, 2015, 12:00:46 PM
I remember going out to dinner with a bunch of Americans and spending the entire evening trying to explain to one of them that England is a country and not the equivalent to a U.S. state.  ;D

I think the States was a different place before and during Vietnam - they've learned a lot, including how much they are hated by many. But then Americans are taught in school to love and respect their country, which doesn't happen much here.

True.

The other thing that really riled the Aussies in particular, was that, while being entertained by Aussie volunteers, they would state y=thet they could not wait to get back to "the real world" - the US. When expressed during parties on boats in Sydney harbour this resulted in more than a few Americans swimming home.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: OH MY WORLD! on October 15, 2015, 03:51:07 PM
Dearest Matty,
Some guest you were. They send you and invitation and you go there and tell them that they are not number one? Ya, right. Actually they were correct but now China has emerged. Do you like the Chinese? How about the Cubans? You like the countries but not the people? There is a word for people like you.
Title: Re: Who Do You Think You Are
Post by: Owlswing on October 15, 2015, 04:04:50 PM
Dearest Matty,
Some guest you were. They send you and invitation and you go there and tell them that they are not number one? Ya, right. Actually they were correct but now China has emerged. Do you like the Chinese? How about the Cubans? You like the countries but not the people? There is a word for people like you.

PDNFCFR