Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Walt Zingmatilder on November 25, 2015, 08:41:15 PM
-
They won't admit it but Labour have forced a U Turn on tax credits
and police spending.
Now that is what an opposition is for.
Corbyn 2 Miliband 0
-
They won't admit it but Labour have forced a U Turn on tax credits
and police spending.
Now that is what an opposition is for.
Corbyn 2 Miliband 0
But they couldn't have done it without the Lords!!
-
They won't admit it but Labour have forced a U Turn on tax credits
and police spending.
Now that is what an opposition is for.
Corbyn 2 Miliband 0
I thought Labour had voted for them. The real opposition seems to be that bete noire - the House of Lords. Perhaps we'd better keep them until we get an opposition with a spine.
-
I thought Labour had voted for them. The real opposition seems to be that bete noire - the House of Lords. Perhaps we'd better keep them until we get an opposition with a spine.
Well, yes, so it's really the Lords, chiefly, who scuppered the posh boys!
-
I wouldn't say necessarily the Lords - there was a huge mobilisation of people through organisations like 38 degrees who put pressure on the Lords and the commons - without that grassroots pressure I doubt there would have been as much of U-turn as there has been.
-
This would be the cuts in tax credits that Labour originally abstained on?
-
This would be the cuts in tax credits that Labour originally abstained on?
Yep that would be the Blairite Milibandite rump, the players safe.
Labour peers were instrumental in the bald opposition to them.
Also Corbyn pushed the point about maintaining the police.
Of course the ''real'' narrative is that the money was found elsewhere and it was the plan all along not to bring these in and if you don't buy that.......it was Rupert Murdoch and Tory Backbenchers wot won it.
-
Ah Labour Lords, how democratic!
-
Dear Vlad,
Did the SNP have anything to do with this, it's a brave new world, grown up government, why am I not convinced, can a Leopard truly change it's shorts.
Confused, yes I am, the tory party has a heart, aye right!!
Gonnagle.
-
Did the SNP have anything to do with this, ...
Probably not, Gonners.
On a slightly different tack, I was trying to work out when we last had a Government that truly represented the UK as a whole, and when we last had an opposition that did the same. In fact, have we ever had such a Government or opposition, especially when one remembers that the two traditional 'big' parties don't stand in Northern Ireland (and, yes, I am aware that the NI parties are often loosely affiliated to one or other of the mainland parties).
-
Dear Vlad,
Did the SNP have anything to do with this, it's a brave new world, grown up government, why am I not convinced, can a Leopard truly change it's shorts.
Confused, yes I am, the tory party has a heart, aye right!!
Gonnagle.
Depends what the opinion polls said, , this seems to dictate Snp policy.
-
Depends what the opinion polls said, , this seems to dictate Snp policy.
Ah so a party that voted against it consistently are being held up as bad as opposed to abstain, against?
-
Ah so a party that voted against it consistently are being held up as bad as opposed to abstain, against?
No never said that.
-
No never said that.
So, what are you saying? Cos' voting against something consistently seems reasonable and not about what opinion polls say?
-
So, what are you saying? Cos' voting against something consistently seems reasonable and not about what opinion polls say?
I'm simply saying that SNP seem to follow the polls on many of their policies, almost like they are New Labour 2.0.
-
I'm simply saying that SNP seem to follow the polls on many of their policies, almost like they are New Labour 2.0.
And the evidence for that here would be? They voted consistently against something. Labour flip flopped, and then so did George.
-
I'm simply saying that SNP seem to follow the polls on many of their policies, almost like they are New Labour 2.0.
Is that not, though, possibly just a good indicator that they think their mandate is to represent their constituents and that they have a pretty good handle on what those constituents want?
O.
-
You can bet that whatever the papers and the BBC are saying about what is happening in the party isn't accurate.
It is too early in the political cycle for the Tories not to be everything to everybody. The press and the BBC have been successful in preserving the national narrative.....that Labour are destined to fail in 2020...because after all, we elect governments for three terms by ignoring Osborne's U turn and defeat and focussing on Corbyn.
The BBC's response was shoddier of course than the press who are merely representing the interest of their backers. By trumpeting on the PM programme that at least one MP had called for Corbyn's resignation.....One MP?
Of course all it's about is that large groups of the public should never count for anything since things of course are achieved by ''great men'' be they politicians or BBC broadcasters.
Replace the corporation now with the British Broadcasting Commission. Readvertise the main managerial and presentation jobs. No need to change the logo or the headed notepaper.
-
You can bet that whatever the papers and the BBC are saying about what is happening in the party isn't accurate.
Why isn't what is actually being said by members of the Labour Party, both MPs and members, accurate, OS?
The BBC's response was shoddier of course than the press who are merely representing the interest of their backers. By trumpeting on the PM programme that at least one MP had called for Corbyn's resignation.....One MP?
As far as I can make out, the BBC were simply reporting what has been happening (after all, they give lots of time to what 'one MP' says on the Parliamentary channel, not to mention events like the Budget!!)
Of course all it's about is that large groups of the public should never count for anything since things of course are achieved by ''great men'' be they politicians or BBC broadcasters.
Which is, of course, why the Chancellor ignored the opinion of the vast proportion of the British public and ditched the welfare reforms he had been trailing for so long.
Replace the corporation now with the British Broadcasting Commission. Readvertise the main managerial and presentation jobs. No need to change the logo or the headed notepaper.
And why should this make any difference. We could end up with just as balanced a leadership and reportage as we currently do. Remember that many reports from independent groups place the BBC slighly left of centre.
-
Is that not, though, possibly just a good indicator that they think their mandate is to represent their constituents and that they have a pretty good handle on what those constituents want?
O.
Are the polls UK-wide or only Scotland-wide? If the former, are they actually speaking for their constituents; if the latter, are they in a position to dictate to the rest of the UK?
-
Why isn't what is actually being said by members of the Labour Party, both MPs and members, accurate, OS?
As far as I can make out, the BBC were simply reporting what has been happening (after all, they give lots of time to what 'one MP' says on the Parliamentary channel, not to mention events like the Budget!!)
Which is, of course, why the Chancellor ignored the opinion of the vast proportion of the British public and ditched the welfare reforms he had been trailing for so long.
And why should this make any difference. We could end up with just as balanced a leadership and reportage as we currently do. Remember that many reports from independent groups place the BBC slighly left of centre.
All of this can be answered by being aware of the hyperbole and clichéd nature of the reporting. Does this as Robinson on the Today programme really mark how people will view the party in four and a half years time. Didn't Robinson also say that about the Little Red Book incident.
The whole point is is that in BBC reporting they are working from a narrative that the opinion of one or two labour MP's trumps the opinion of the membership. That is establishmentism writ large. That is how the BBC conducts itself superimposed by the bbc as a model for how the country should work.
The BBC gets the difference between the membership and one or two MP's arse about face because in the BBC there is a powerful elite.
That of course should be scrapped. Osborne U Turned really because people who voted for him who he thought he could do anything to made noises that that wasn't the case.
The BBC is paid for by the licence fee and yet it's future is being decided between people who are paid from that and the government. If the government want the level of management they are exercising they should put it to referendum or bring the payment of it into taxation.
The BBC therefore operates on the elite great man principle. That is wrong. The BBC should not be the bastard offspring of celebrity and the public school system but should be representative of the licence payers.
That way there may be more care of it by the public and less political interference.
-
Remember that many reports from independent groups place the BBC slighly left of centre.
Meaningless since slightly left of centre now means David Davis.
-
And the evidence for that here would be? They voted consistently against something. Labour flip flopped, and then so did George.
SNP's spin is top class at least as good as Blair's, whilst the speak left they act in the centre ground.
SNP are consistent apart from not wanting the pound then wanting it, not wanting to be in NATO and then out of it, they might flip on Syria as well.
-
Is that not, though, possibly just a good indicator that they think their mandate is to represent their constituents and that they have a pretty good handle on what those constituents want?
I think they are an excellent well run party that stand for Scotland, I'm not Scottish so they are bad for me.
-
SNP are consistent apart from not wanting the pound then wanting it, not wanting to be in NATO and then out of it, they might flip on Syria as well.
Not to mention wanting to stay in Europe yet backing a process that will probably see them thrown out, at least temporarily.
-
Meaningless since slightly left of centre now means David Davis.
Not sure that most of these independent groups have quite as jaundiced view as you - and probably have a more realistic one than you do.
-
The whole point is is that in BBC reporting they are working from a narrative that the opinion of one or two labour MP's trumps the opinion of the membership. That is establishmentism writ large. That is how the BBC conducts itself superimposed by the bbc as a model for how the country should work.
Having listened to the BBC for many years now, I have never experienced this disconnect you like to make out occurs. Over the years, Auntie has been happy to criticise any- and everyone. The bulk of what I have heard about this latest situation - via the BBC - has been from pro-Corbyn MPs and party members. That suggests that the occasional different report is an attempt to give balance.
That of course should be scrapped. Osborne U Turned really because people who voted for him who he thought he could do anything to made noises that that wasn't the case.
OS, I didn't vote for him, personally or party-cularly, yet I wrote to him and my Tory MP explaining why I believe that the progamme that he had in mind was erroneous.
The BBC is paid for by the licence fee and yet it's future is being decided between people who are paid from that and the government. If the government want the level of management they are exercising they should put it to referendum or bring the payment of it into taxation.
Interestingly, there has been a massive consultation exercise going on with Joe Public for the last few months. The advantage of this is that it isn't a simplistic 'Yes/No' referendum, but asking for ideas from everyone.
That way there may be more care of it by the public and less political interference.
I think there are attempts at political interference simply because all political parties would like the Beeb to appear more sympathetic to their politics. This suggests that she is actually pretty balanced.
[/quote]