Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Science and Technology => Topic started by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 12:58:47 PM

Title: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 12:58:47 PM
 ...   or so suggests Professor Stephen Hawking.

Three of the examples of potential danger he refers to are nuclear war, global warming and genetically-engineered viruses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-35344664

I have sometimes wondered whether the popularity of trying to keep people alive longer and longer may also be a potential threat to our society.

Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Shaker on January 19, 2016, 01:04:17 PM
Can't be doing with the man, myself.

He might be a genius and what have you, but I think he sets a terrible example to his kids, sitting in front of a computer all day.

Seriously, I think the danger of a nuclear war is lower now than it has been since nuclear weapons were invented seventy years ago. Genetically-engineered viruses also seem a remote possibility (though he's bound to know more about the subject than I do). Of the three, overpopulation and climate change are what will royally screw us, because nobody has the minerals to do what needs to be done.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Owlswing on January 19, 2016, 01:15:05 PM
Can't be doing with the man, myself.

He might be a genius and what have you, but I think he sets a terrible example to his kids, sitting in front of a computer all day.

Seriously, I think the danger of a nuclear war is lower now than it has been since nuclear weapons were invented seventy years ago. Genetically-engineered viruses also seem a remote possibility (though he's bound to know more about the subject than I do). Of the three, overpopulation and climate change are what will royally screw us, because nobody has the minerals to do what needs to be done.

Agreed.

It is the mindless destruction and use of the planet's resources without any real attempts to find alternatives that will, in all probability, seal humanity's death warrant.

On the matter of nuclear war, there are, as at today's date, two potential flash points that might ignite a nuclear war and they are both the result of hatred directed against America - North Korea and the Middle East. The main problem here is that in attempting to wipe out America it is quite possible that all life, including the instigators of the conflict, are likely to be wiped out, especially in view of America's most probable response.

Attitudes like those of Donald Trump are doing nothing to lessen the possibility of that conflict. Only my opinion of course!

Note to self - Do NOT post while tired or pissed or both - it causes unnecessary typo's!
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Shaker on January 19, 2016, 01:40:16 PM
On the matter of nuclear war there are, as at today's date two potential flash points that might ignite a nuclear war and they are both the result of hatred dierected against America - North Korea and the Midle East. The main proble here is that in attempting to wipe out America it is quite possible that all life, including the instigators of the conflict, are likely to be wiped out, especially in view of America's most probable response.

The greater danger of the two, I would suggest, is North Korea - but even then, is the regime really insane enough to instigate a course of action which will rain down radioactive death and destruction on a country so many times smaller than the US? I find it hard to believe.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 19, 2016, 01:42:43 PM
The greater danger of the two, I would suggest, is North Korea - but even then, is the regime really insane enough to instigate a course of action which will rain down radioactive death and destruction on a country so many times smaller than the US? I find it hard to believe.

It only needs one nut to press the button.  >:(
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Shaker on January 19, 2016, 01:44:51 PM
It only needs one nut to press the button.  >:(
Actually no - because even in the land of pudgy little dictators with bad haircuts, there are protocols to follow to initiate the deployment of nuclear weapons. These things aren't left in the hands of just one individual, just as we don't let my dad have the remote control for the telly.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 19, 2016, 01:46:40 PM
Actually no - because even in the land of pudgy little dictators with bad haircuts, there are protocols to follow to initiate the deployment of nuclear weapons. These things aren't left in the hands of just one individual, just as we don't let my dad have the remote control for the telly.

I hope you are right!  :)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 01:47:47 PM
Seriously, I think the danger of a nuclear war is lower now than it has been since nuclear weapons were invented seventy years ago. Genetically-engineered viruses also seem a remote possibility (though he's bound to know more about the subject than I do). Of the three, overpopulation and climate change are what will royally screw us, because nobody has the minerals to do what needs to be done.
I suppose it depends on what one defines as a 'genetically-engineered virus'.  Is it simply one that is developed in a laboratory, or is it one that results from the overuse/abuse of medications?  As for overpopulation, I think the real issue is the lack of access to water in many pats of the globe - regardless of whether or not it is clean.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 19, 2016, 01:49:49 PM
I suppose it depends on what one defines as a 'genetically-engineered virus'.  Is it simply one that is developed in a laboratory, or is it one that results from the overuse/abuse of medications?  As for overpopulation, I think the real issue is the lack of access to water in many pats of the globe - regardless of whether or not it is clean.

It stands to reason that unless population control is achieved in one way or another, our future is bleak.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Shaker on January 19, 2016, 01:51:12 PM
I hope you are right!  :)

The number of near-misses, almosts and very-nearlies with regard to nuclear weapons during the Cold War is absolutely staggering - don't read up on this if you want to sleep soundly at night ever again (although it's absolutely fascinating - to me, anyway). At least two Russian military men are known to have averted a nuclear exchange between the USA and the USSR (as it was), at least one of them by deliberately disobeying training and orders:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Rhiannon on January 19, 2016, 01:57:42 PM
The number of near-misses, almosts and very-nearlies with regard to nuclear weapons during the Cold War is absolutely staggering - don't read up on this if you want to sleep soundly at night ever again (although it's absolutely fascinating - to me, anyway). At least two Russian military men are known to have averted a nuclear exchange between the USA and the USSR (as it was), at least one of them by deliberately disobeying training and orders:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov


Yes, I'd read this too. It is incredible, but doesn't keep me awake at night. Something my brain has the ability to park I guess.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 19, 2016, 01:58:24 PM
The number of near-misses, almosts and very-nearlies with regard to nuclear weapons during the Cold War is absolutely staggering - don't read up on this if you want to sleep soundly at night ever again (although it's absolutely fascinating - to me, anyway). At least two Russian military men are known to have averted a nuclear exchange between the USA and the USSR (as it was), at least one of them by deliberately disobeying training and orders:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Oh gawd ... I want my mum!  :'(
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Shaker on January 19, 2016, 02:01:43 PM
Oh gawd ... I want my mum!  :'(

Don't read this then:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24183879

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Goldsboro_B-52_crash

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/timeline-nuclear-weapons-accidents-mishaps-near-misses

http://www.history.com/news/9-tales-of-broken-arrows-thermonuclear-near-misses-throughout-history
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 02:08:19 PM
It stands to reason that unless population control is achieved in one way or another, our future is bleak.
I wondering wheth these drug-resistant organisms will act as population control.   ;)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 19, 2016, 02:09:53 PM
I wondering wheth these drug-resistant organisms will act as population control.   ;)

We have to become extinct sooner or later!  :)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: jakswan on January 19, 2016, 02:12:24 PM
I have sometimes wondered whether the popularity of trying to keep people alive longer and longer may also be a potential threat to our society.

Yes much safer in the old days when killing people was in fashion.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 02:16:37 PM
Yes much safer in the old days when killing people was in fashion.
Hadn't thought of that system, jaks - was actually thinking of people being allowed to die naturally rather than encouraged (perhaps even forced, in some cases) to live beyond their natural span - ie those who opt not to be resucitated - yet are; or who are loaded up with so many drugs to keep them alive as to make them little more than mobile pill-boxes!!
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 02:17:30 PM
We have to become extinct sooner or later!  :)
We as individuals or as a species?  Is there an evolutionary imperative for the latter?
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Shaker on January 19, 2016, 02:18:03 PM
Yes much safer in the old days when killing people was in fashion.
That's something that's never out of fashion.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 19, 2016, 02:26:16 PM
Hadn't thought of that system, jaks - was actually thinking of people being allowed to die naturally rather than encouraged (perhaps even forced, in some cases) to live beyond their natural span - ie those who opt not to be resucitated - yet are; or who are loaded up with so many drugs to keep them alive as to make them little more than mobile pill-boxes!!

What colour is the sky in your world? (a) everyone dies naturally, (b) there hasn't been a time when we didn't try to save people, we just got good at it, (c) if you go down to the ironymonger's shop I've got them to put aside some for you to help you read posts.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 19, 2016, 02:31:06 PM
We as individuals or as a species?  Is there an evolutionary imperative for the latter?


You've heard the words 'evolutionary imperative' and just decided to bung them in a sentence to make it all spiffy, haven't you? If it's not that, I'm struggling to begin to make sense of your post.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Owlswing on January 19, 2016, 02:48:15 PM
Actually no - because even in the land of pudgy little dictators with bad haircuts, there are protocols to follow to initiate the deployment of nuclear weapons. These things aren't left in the hands of just one individual, just as we don't let my dad have the remote control for the telly.

Are you really sure about that?

In North Korea do you really think, even knowing the little we do know of the internal workings of the country, that Kim would allow anyone but homself to make the final decision "to launch or not to launch"?
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 19, 2016, 03:16:29 PM
Are you really sure about that?

In North Korea do you really think, even knowing the little we do know of the internal workings of the country, that Kim would allow anyone but homself to make the final decision "to launch or not to launch"?


Somebody mention North Korea


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ

Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 19, 2016, 07:18:35 PM
We as individuals or as a species?  Is there an evolutionary imperative for the latter?

As a species. Most species either evolve into something else or become extinct.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Enki on January 19, 2016, 09:09:33 PM
It only needs one nut to press the button.  >:(

Thank goodness Brazil doesn't have nuclear weapons then. ;)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Shaker on January 19, 2016, 09:10:18 PM
Good grief.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 10:27:19 PM
As a species. Most species either evolve into something else or become extinct.
So, there isn't an evolutionary imperative that species have to become extinct.   ;)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 19, 2016, 10:30:20 PM
...(b) there hasn't been a time when we didn't try to save people, we just got good at it, ...
and I'm simply asking whether we have become too good at it?  It seems to be that the means of extending people's lives is almost the main job of medical scientists now.  Perhaps something to do with our - Western, at least - fear or dislike of death.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 20, 2016, 05:38:43 AM
So, there isn't an evolutionary imperative that species have to become extinct.   ;)

Except that of the evolving universe! Planet earth is doomed sooner or later.  :(
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Gonnagle on January 20, 2016, 11:46:38 AM
Dear Leonard,

Quote
It stands to reason that unless population control is achieved in one way or another, our future is bleak.

Hans Rosling is your man, ending poverty is the answer.

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth

Gonnagle.

Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 20, 2016, 12:29:48 PM
Dear Leonard,

Hans Rosling is your man, ending poverty is the answer.

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth

Gonnagle.

Sounds like a good start.  :)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: floo on January 20, 2016, 02:40:51 PM
It only needs one nut to press the button.  >:(

Like Donald Trump if the US electorate were ever crazy enough to vote him in as President!
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Owlswing on January 20, 2016, 03:55:13 PM
Like Donald Trump if the US electorate were ever crazy enough to vote him in as President!

The problem here is that they are just, as a mob, stupid enough as to be likely to do so.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Hope on January 20, 2016, 04:27:17 PM
Like Donald Trump if the US electorate were ever crazy enough to vote him in as President!
Will Sarah Palin's endorsement help or hinder him?
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 07:53:01 PM

Attitudes like those of Donald Trump are doing nothing to lessen the possibility of that conflict. Only my opinion of course!

I reckon this desperate rhetoric from the US is because they know they are weakening. You never get this stressed out verbiage from the strong. 
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 07:55:39 PM
It only needs one nut to press the button.  >:(
Shouldn't that be a loose screw!
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 21, 2016, 07:59:54 PM
Shouldn't that be a loose screw!

 :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 08:08:51 PM
As for overpopulation, I think the real issue is the lack of access to water in many pats of the globe - regardless of whether or not it is clean.
I agree, but I think it will be more of a perfect storm where many issues conflate. So not just water but food i.e. bad crops due to storms and lack of rain in our bread bowls. Migration, which is going on now, cause of shortages in given area and fleeing from wars. Financial and political break down especially because of the heinous greed of the Elites which has left the people in an impoverished state of affairs.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 08:15:36 PM
The number of near-misses, almosts and very-nearlies with regard to nuclear weapons during the Cold War is absolutely staggering - don't read up on this if you want to sleep soundly at night ever again (although it's absolutely fascinating - to me, anyway). At least two Russian military men are known to have averted a nuclear exchange between the USA and the USSR (as it was), at least one of them by deliberately disobeying training and orders:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
There was a TV programme on this some years ago. I think one of these events happened in the 80's (?). Scared the shit out me to know just how easy it is for things to be misread with mega issues like this.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 21, 2016, 08:18:57 PM
There was a TV programme on this some years ago. I think one of these events happened in the 80's (?). Scared the shit out me to know just how easy it is for things to be misread with mega issues like this.

(Smuggly) When you get to my age it doesn't worry you too much!  :)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 08:22:11 PM
Oh gawd ... I want my mum!  :'(
That's mummy!

Come on Leonard regress properly, no half measures here PLEASE!!!
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 08:26:05 PM
I wondering wheth these drug-resistant organisms will act as population control.   ;)
Oh I forgot things like bird flu epidemics. Being so globally linked these things can spread like wild fire.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 21, 2016, 08:27:14 PM
That's mummy!

Come on Leonard regress properly, no half measures here PLEASE!!!

When I was a child, mummy was considered a bit sissy if you were referring to your mother.  :)
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 08:29:23 PM
(Smuggly) When you get to my age it doesn't worry you too much!  :)
You were crying for your mummy a minute ago.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 21, 2016, 08:30:46 PM
When I was a child, mummy was considered a bit sissy if you were referring to your mother.  :)
But that is what regression is all about.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Leonard James on January 21, 2016, 08:31:39 PM
You were crying for your mummy a minute ago.

Nah, that was my mum. Mummies are embalmed dead people.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Jack Knave on January 22, 2016, 07:33:08 PM
Nah, that was my mum. Mummies are embalmed dead people.
I see! Very telling.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: jeremyp on January 22, 2016, 07:36:22 PM
The problem here is that they are just, as a mob, stupid enough as to be likely to do so.

If you talk to most Americans, you'll find they do not think it at all likely that Trump will get in. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt until he does.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 22, 2016, 07:49:19 PM
If you talk to most Americans, you'll find they do not think it at all likely that Trump will get in. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt until he does.
So you have talked to a majority of the US population/electorate?
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: jeremyp on January 23, 2016, 08:57:12 AM
So you have talked to a majority of the US population/electorate?
Pollsters have.
Title: Re: Humans at risk of lethal 'own goal' ...
Post by: Owlswing on January 23, 2016, 03:27:05 PM
Pollsters have.

I very much doubt that- the usual polling ratio is about one in ten to fifty thousand.