Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jeremyp on March 01, 2016, 09:08:46 AM
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On another thread I came across this assertion.
Look Gordon I do not believe Leprechauns exist. I cannot absolutely prove it but I can give supporting argument for my assertion,
So what are the arguments that leprechauns do not exist?
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On another thread I came across this assertion.
So what are the arguments that leprechauns do not exist?
Of course they exist! I'd like to see someone prove that they don't.
Seamus Doolittle, the lead scientist in ‘Project Leprechaun,’ described the creature as a “small, wrinkly old man with a bulbous nose and frizzy red beard.”
According to Doolittle, the leprechaun was wearing a pair of dark green knickerbockers, a frilly white shirt, buckled shoes, white stockings, and a top hat. He was also carrying a pot of gold.
“He stood about three feet high,” added Doolitttle, “which was a lot bigger than we expected him to be.”
Doolittle said he got the idea to catch a leprechaun after hearing colleagues say that the mythical creature did not exist.
“Most scientists don’t believe in leprechauns,” said Doolittle. “I wanted to prove them all wrong, so I set out to the woods to catch one myself.”
“And if there’s still any doubt,” added Doolittle, “tell those skeptics to come look at the little bugger in my lab. That’ll shut ‘em up.”
http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/28208/scientists-capture-leprechaun/
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Irish Scientists Claim To Have Found “REAL Life Leprechaun Cave”
Researchers at Trinity College Dublin have discovered a cave on Ireland’s northwest coast which they believe was once the actual home of a leprechaun. Scientific evaluation of the artifacts found in the small cave reveals that shoe-making equipment, maps and gold coins were apparently left behind by the leprechaun sometime between the years 1650 and 1700.
The initial discovery was made by two amateur cavers who are TCD students, on holiday in the fishing town of Killybegs. They heard myths recounted by locals about a small, mysterious cave hidden about 2 km up the shoreline, and set out to investigate. After several days of searching they found what appeared to be the entrance to a cave, well-camouflaged by large rocks and trees. The outcropping was engraved with what seemed to be a rudimentary form of Gaelic lettering. However, the cave was much too small for them to enter and explore, with the entrance only about 60 cm tall.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/06/irish-scientists-claim-to-have-found-real-life-leprechaun-cave-2967578.html
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Those are arguments that leprechauns do exist and are therefore off topic, I asked for arguments that leprechauns don't exist. Vlad says he has some, so there must be some.
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Those are arguments that leprechauns do exist and are therefore off topic, I asked for arguments that leprechauns don't exist. Vlad says he has some, so there must be some.
but you have to go through all the arguments that they do exist before you can refute them ;)
The main one for them existing is human experience and encounters and what people claim to have found.
If he wants to refute it, he needs to show that these particular experiences have no basis in reality.
Which can be subjective.
There are people out there who claim to have seen them, just like there are people who claim to have had a christian religious experience.
Why is one valid? And not the other?
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but you have to go through all the arguments that they do exist before you can refute them ;)
Good point.
There are people out there who claim to have seen them, just like there are people who claim to have had a christian religious experience.
Another excellent answer. It's beginning to look like Vlad doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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Crikey! If this is right, leprechauns even have protection under the EU.
You've heard of the horse whisperer
Now there was also a leprechaun whisperer
Know locally as McCoillte (Kevin Woods) is Irelands last Leprechaun Whisperer.
In 1989 a leprechaun suit, bones, and gold coins were found on Carlingford mountain in Co Louth Ireland.
No was was more sceptical than the Whisperer and he organised a leprechaun hunt that year to try and catch one but none were found.
In 2002 he found the gold coins in a stone wall on Ghan Road which enabled him to communicate with "Carraig" the elder of the 236 surviving leprechauns.
By 2009 they were afforded protected by the E.U.under the European Habitats Directive.
In 2010 he published his first book "The Last Leprechauns of Ireland" based on their lives.
http://www.thelastleprechaunsofireland.com/page_3106212.html
:)
Seriously? leprechauns have protection under the EU habitats directive?
That's more than Jesus has got, surely? 😉🌹
I wonder if " Nessie " is protected too?
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Leprechauns are just as real as the Biblical deity! ;D
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Super posts, Rose! How did you find all this stuff?? :D
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On another thread I came across this assertion.
So what are the arguments that leprechauns do not exist?
I don't believe they exist either, which is of course the default position.
I do not however, believe that they do NOT exist.
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They definitely do exist, I've seen them on the telly. They are quite small and shy and generally only children see them (Ralph on 'The Simpsons' knows them well), but as I've got older I have seen them occasionally.
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Super posts, Rose! How did you find all this stuff?? :D
I'm always interested in the odd and strange ;) I always have been.
I'm not a believer, and don't go in for the theories, but just like looking and wondering.
I like speculating :D
I even investigated a UFO once, for my local UFO club. ( when I was about 19)
Interviewed and recorded the guy who saw it, went to my local garage to find out if the effects to his car was even possible.
Really interesting stuff.
With the internet I can read up even more on interesting folk law and legends and find out things.
I enjoy it, I suppose.
It's much easier now with the Internet, plus you can also read the opposing views too, which is less so with a book.
Sometimes, it makes me laugh, a book I have ATM describes where I live in really conspiracy theory terms which involves devil worship.
It's hilarious, it even involves a club I am close to. ( pagan roots but in this book pagan = devil worship)
All illuminati, secret societies and theories why we have owls on our buildings and the relevance of street names and positioning of buildings.
Even Dick Turpin is in there ;)
I tend to read things like leprechauns and legends because it interests me, the one on the book about where I live because it made me laugh more than most comedies.
;D
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They definitely do exist, I've seen them on the telly. They are quite small and shy and generally only children see them (Ralph on 'The Simpsons' knows them well), but as I've got older I have seen them occasionally.
I would expect a Brownie to be able to see them
http://galatiansfour.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/fairies-gnomes-elves-and-more.html?m=1
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I don't believe they exist either, which is of course the default position.
I do not however, believe that they do NOT exist.
Sorry but Vlad says you need arguments in order to justify your lack of belief in leprechauns.
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I don't believe they exist either, which is of course the default position.
I do not however, believe that they do NOT exist.
If you don't believe they exist either, then you believe they don't exist.
If you never encountered stories of leprechauns, then you wouldn't have an opinion on it, not until someone told you.
You have assumed you hold the default position, I'd challenge that.
The default position is held by someone who has never heard of them, you obviously have, therefore you have an opinion.
That they do not exist.
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Sorry but Vlad says you need arguments in order to justify your lack of belief in leprechauns.
We all have arguments one way and another for what we believe either does or doesn't exist.
Individuals weigh up the arguments differently.
All this nonsense about babies being born atheist is of th same ilk. IMO.
An atheist is someone who has weighed up the available evidence and expressed an opinion on it.
A baby doesn't do that until it is older.
We have no way of knowing what all babies believe, probably based on their very limited experience.
Atheist is not a default position.
( it's all a plot by the atheists to make themselves the centre of the universe :P ;) )
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Really floo? Another day of your, making fun of God? "...just as real as the Biblical deity" Isn't that interesting, are leprechauns just as real as your famous Tesco cookie or your fireplace Jesus? You have no shame lady!
Jeremy,
I wouldn't be surprised that they exist. And hey, many atheists will tell ya that they think aliens exist on other planets, but they will produce NO evidence when challenged.
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Sorry but Vlad says you need arguments in order to justify your lack of belief in leprechauns.
I lack a belief in a potentially infinite number of things.
I do not have enough time.
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I lack a belief in a potentially infinite number of things.
I do not have enough time.
It's something I find interesting, exploring and sorting through stuff, coming to my own conclusions.
I think of it more as a hobby.
To me, it's what makes life interesting.
Just finding out is fun, you don't have to believe anything.
Sometimes it's just interesting, because people are interesting.
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I lack a belief in a potentially infinite number of things.
I do not have enough time.
That's your problem. Vlad says you need an argument for each and every one of the things you don't believe in, but leprechauns specifically.
Actually, it seems odd to me that he hasn't posted his arguments here yet. Maybe he has a particularly matte turd that needs polishing.
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That's your problem. Vlad says you need an argument for each and every one of the things you don't believe in, but leprechauns specifically.
Actually, it seems odd to me that he hasn't posted his arguments here yet. Maybe he has a particularly matte turd that needs polishing.
It all boils down to the same argument. It doesn't take too long.
Having not seen one, I want evidence outside human experience that cannot be falsified and is reliable.
Depending on what there is determines if I believe it exists. It's all shades of grey really.
Leprechauns, unicorns, fairies, Nessie , I don't think the sort of evidence exists therefore I don't think they exist.
Dinosaurs I believe existed because there is enough evidence, all over the world, from different sources.
As I come across and read new ones, I make choices based on what I can find out.
Sometimes I make choices based on how likely it is.
Life on other planets for example. Which I think is very likely.
But a lot of the arguments are still subjective.
It depends what you use to support the arguments.
With leprechauns, they are most unlikely, one of their attributes is being all male.
How do you get little leprechauns for a start ?
And why are they always old with a ginger beard?
And why are they all cobblers, tapping out minute shoes?
So is it likely there is a species of male only, short, ginger bearded, drunken cobblers, with a pot of gold?
Not to mention the world that then opens up with who they are making shoes for.........?
I think the only place you might find such a congregation of males talking cobblers while drunk ,matching those features might be at some football stadiums ;D
But I'd best not generalise ::)
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Of course they do. The word 'leprechaun' basically comes from the Old Irish words 'lu' - small - and 'corp'- body. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=leprechaun
There are a whole host of this kind of being across the world, and they would have started out their lives as little more than precisely that - people described by certain physical features. Over the centuries, probably for a number of reasons (perhaps that particular feature became rarer) societies began to endow them with more than just physical powers. Why? I have no idea, but I've heard it suggested that this might have something to do with a belief that such people - having been 'short-changed' in some respects - had other powers to make up for that.
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Leprechauns, unicorns, fairies, Nessie , I don't think the sort of evidence exists therefore I don't think they exist.
A unicorn was spotted in California on Saturday. Its all there on the BBC website ;) so it must be true
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Leprechauns reproduce by binary fission.
Unicorns have become extinct but they were beautiful creatures back in the day - not that I remember them of course.
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Leprechauns reproduce by binary fission.
Unicorns have become extinct but they were beautiful creatures back in the day - not that I remember them of course.
Really, that does surprise me! ;D ;D ;D
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I lack a belief in a potentially infinite number of things.
I do not have enough time.
yep. Lost count of the number of times I've pointed this out.
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yep. Lost count of the number of times I've pointed this out.
But but but ........ It's interesting ;)
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Really, that does surprise me! ;D ;D ;D
;)
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On another thread I came across this assertion.
So what are the arguments that leprechauns do not exist?
Saint Patrick's day is approaching - so, it's that time of year when we all need to believe in leprechauns (and it's not so difficult if you consume a few jars of stout)
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http://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/event/7609013-st-patricks-day-2016
☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘☘🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀☘☘☘☘☘
🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻☘🍀
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jeremyp,
bluehillside's fourth maxim: "If an argument for god works equally for leprechauns, it's probably a bad argument".
The reason I introduce leprechauns into the discussions here is to make just that point - "I experience it", "you can't disprove it", "other people agree with me" etc and wearingly etc are just some of the many logically broken attempts some here make for an objectively true god, so it's a short cut response to point out that - if they think it's ok to use them for that purpose - then it's OK to use them for anything else, leprechauns included.
Sadly it's taking longer than I'd hoped to sink in, but hey - cock-eyed optimist that I am - you never know when the lightbulb might go on for somebody here...
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jeremyp,
bluehillside's fourth maxim: "If an argument for god works equally for leprechauns, it's probably a bad argument".
In Vlad the fourth Maxim is ''science is successful in the same way that Brobat toilet cleaner is successful''
Four a) is '' Science is not an ontology whatever that geyser Hillside says''
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jeremyp,
bluehillside's fourth maxim: "If an argument for god works equally for leprechauns, it's probably a bad argument".
The reason I introduce leprechauns into the discussions here is to make just that point - "I experience it", "you can't disprove it", "other people agree with me"
Hang on isn't it you who are suggesting that experiencing the little chaps is flawed?
And why is it flawed, why is it unreal?
Because Leprechauns are little chaps dressed in green. And therefore seeing them is a distorted homoncularising hallucination.
What is God a hallucination of?
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Hang on isn't it you who are suggesting that experiencing the little chaps is flawed?
And why is it flawed, why is it unreal?
Because Leprechauns are little chaps dressed in green. And therefore seeing them is a distorted homoncularising hallucination.
What is God a hallucination of?
Perhaps leprechauns manifest in the physical realm as little chaps dressed in green, like this god does as Jesus...
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Andy,
Perhaps leprechauns manifest in the physical realm as little chaps dressed in green, like this god does as Jesus...
That is my personal faith belief, and therefore it must be true for you too.
Can I have some tax breaks, charitable status and the right to teach leprechaunology as factually true to your children therefore please? Oh, and a slot on Thought for the Day would be nice too please.
And the point of course wasn't to examine the nature of leprechauns - rather it was to to point out that an argument for "God" that also works for leprechauns is probably a bad argument. Its such a simple - and obvious - point, but it seems to be lost on some nonetheless.
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Perhaps leprechauns manifest in the physical realm as little chaps dressed in green, like this god does as Jesus...
The problem with that argument is that 1) there are allegedly a multitude of leprechauns who have existed down the centuries (I use the word 'allegedly' carefully, because we know very weel that there have been plenty of smaller than average people down the centuries) and 2) Jesus was an historical person and there has only ever been one of him.
Trying to compare natural with supernatural is somewhat moot
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In Vlad the fourth Maxim is ''science is successful in the same way that Brobat toilet cleaner is successful''
Four a) is '' Science is not an ontology whatever that geyser Hillside says''
I hadn't realised that Hillside was a spout of boiling water ;)
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Hope,
The problem with that argument is that 1) there are allegedly a multitude of leprechauns who have existed down the centuries (I use the word 'allegedly' carefully, because we know very weel that there have been plenty of smaller than average people down the centuries) and 2) Jesus was an historical person and there has only ever been one of him.
Trying to compare natural with supernatural is somewhat moot
You've missed it. The point rather was that - once you posit the supernatural - then anything goes because there are no rules to bound the possibilities. A man/god alive, dead for a bit and alive again? Sure, why not? Little green chaps flitting in and and out of existence so as to leave pots of gold at the ends of rainbows? Knock yourself out.
Oh, and you can't have it both ways - either Jesus was all mortal (a sort of early David Koresh figure, which incidentally I think to be likely) or he was a man/god, in which case you must allow the same dual natural/non-natural status to anything else, leprechauns included.
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The problem with that argument is that 1) there are allegedly a multitude of leprechauns who have existed down the centuries (I use the word 'allegedly' carefully, because we know very weel that there have been plenty of smaller than average people down the centuries) and 2) Jesus was an historical person and there has only ever been one of him.
There's only ever been one of anybody ::)
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Hope, I bet you must be counting all of those brownie points you 'think' you're gaining by declaring how much evidence you have to support your declared god belief and how much in spite of the absence of this 'evidence', you are still an 'I'll do it god', god believer; those brownie points must be in the millions for you by now, well don't be calling us.
It was probably the devil that made me post this, that must mean minus brownie points, oh dear.
ippy
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There's only ever been one of anybody ::)
Quite a lot of people claiming to be messiahs though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants
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Quite a lot of people claiming to be messiahs though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants
Bleedin' ijuts!
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Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone but I am really a messiah, in disguise! ;D
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Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone but I am really a messiah, in disguise! ;D
Secretly, Sassy knows this, and she is just fighting against it. She will surrender in the end!
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I thought Shaker's point, there's only ever been one of anybody, was wonderful. Funny and insightful, all in one.
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Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone but I am really a messiah, in disguise! ;D
After three..........''what if God was one of us, just a slob like one of us?''
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After three..........''what if God was one of us, just a slob like one of us?''
Speak for yourself, I ain't no slob!
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Speak for yourself, I ain't no slob!
You obviously failed to get the joke.........but don't worry because I did and after all, that's what counts.
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I thought Shaker's point, there's only ever been one of anybody, was wonderful. Funny and insightful, all in one.
One tries, you know ;)
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There's only ever been one of anybody ::)
yep that's the human experience which is why I think God identifies with us most through a single incarnation.
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How many miles to the gallon do you get out of the Assertatron, Vlad?
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How many miles to the gallon do you get out of the Assertatron, Vlad?
Since when has think meant know?
The A stands for assertatron of course.
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Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anyone but I am really a messiah, in disguise! ;D
No, I'm the Messiah and so's my wife.
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jeremyp,
No, I'm the Messiah and so's my wife.
No, she's the Missusiah.