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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: SusanDoris on March 03, 2016, 03:58:53 PM

Title: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: SusanDoris on March 03, 2016, 03:58:53 PM
Here's a piece of rather useless info!!
The word properispomenon'means: a word which has a circomflex accent on the penultimate syllable!!


I googled its definition and this link came up:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/properispomenon

I'm sure that's made your day!! :D  But the one that's more useful is 'myoclonic jerk' which is the name for that jerk of a leg muscle just as you're going to sleep and which wakes you up thinking you are falling.


I read 'Mother Tongue' (and 'Made in America') many years ago and it is my current braille book.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: john on March 03, 2016, 05:30:27 PM
MY FAVOURITE ODD WORD

Anatidaephobia

Anatidaephobia is defined as a pervasive, irrational fear that one is being watched by a duck. The anatidaephobic individual fears that no matter where they are or what they are doing, a duck watches.

Anatidaephobia is derived from the Greek word "anatidae", meaning ducks, geese or swans and "phobos" meaning fear.

Anatidaephobia an irrational fear that one is being watched by a duck. The anatidaephobic individual fears that no matter where they are or what they are doing....a duck watches!
John 'Can’t shake this feeling that there is a duck watching me today, think I’m suffering from Anatidaephobia'

*looks outside the window*

*Menacing duck looking back with shifty eyes'

No wonder I can't sleep.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: SqueakyVoice on March 03, 2016, 06:19:12 PM
Shouldn't anatidaephobia be just a fear of ducks?

Anatidaescopophobia would be a fear of being watched by ducks.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Sebastian Toe on March 03, 2016, 06:21:38 PM
Floccinaucinihilipilification
The action or habit of estimating something as worthless.

eg
TW participates in the floccinaucinihilipilification process regularly, with regard to evolutionary theory, along with Spud they seem to be the forum mumpsimuses on the subject.
Although TW's appearances here are becoming thankfully fugacious.

 ;D ;D ;)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 03, 2016, 06:55:06 PM
The darker patch of sky always present between the bows of a double rainbow is known as: Alexander’s Band, named after the Greek Alexander Aphrodisias.

The Clumpton list: Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert and Grubb.   

Circe: another name for a vamp or temptress.

Clemed: old English for starved.

Shibboleth: A word used as a test for detecting people from another district or country by their pronunciation of a word or a sound very difficult for foreigners to pronounce correctly and lots more.

The painter El Greko’s actual name: Domenikos Theotokopoulos, thus El Greko.

A Lit: an old English word for a bat, (the flying kind).

Plumbago: old English for graphite.

Loppers: the pull out bars that support the drop down flap of a bureau.

Stribulation: the noise made by crickets.

Hummerdrews, (phonetic spelling): Noises that are not easily identified.


From my collection of words I pick up from time to time.

I'll apologise in advance for any spelling errors, not one of my string points.

Got loads of collective nouns, all filed under a Pete & Dud like tone of voice, "Did You Know".   

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: SusanDoris on March 04, 2016, 06:22:34 AM
It's a pity we don't have more opportunities to use all the interesting words above. :) The trouble is, of course, that if the opportunity did arise, we'd find that we'd forgotten the required word. Ah, well!
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 04, 2016, 06:55:38 AM
I love the word ululate. Not one I have call to use very often.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 04, 2016, 06:58:28 AM
And sidereal - 'of the stars'. Don't use that one either but just knowing it exists makes me glad.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 04, 2016, 07:02:39 AM
I love the word ululate. Not one I have call to use very often.

No doubt when you get to hell you will have more cause to use it!  ;)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Gordon on March 04, 2016, 08:00:50 AM

The Clumpton list: Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert and Grubb.   


It's 'Trumpton', but more worryingly what has happened to Dibble?
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 04, 2016, 09:36:16 AM
It's 'Trumpton', but more worryingly what has happened to Dibble?

You're right, I don't know how I managed to miss that one, the Clumpton lot are my brothers contribution, to our familie's taste for reasonably amusing but usless facts, words etc.

Don't forget to always use the train spotters tone of voice when and if you feel the need to pass on any of these overwhelmingly interesting but usless facts.

I've noticed that you don't see so many yagies on the skylines of our towns any more, I just wondered if you had noticed as well?

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 04, 2016, 09:49:39 AM
I overheard my daughter explaining to her American friend what a barker was, and why our town council once tried to ban one.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ekim on March 04, 2016, 10:00:40 AM
It's 'Trumpton', but more worryingly what has happened to Dibble?
He became a police officer in Top Cat.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Gordon on March 04, 2016, 10:02:51 AM
You're right, I don't know how I managed to miss that one, the Clumpton lot are my brothers contribution, to our familie's taste for reasonably amusing but usless facts, words etc.

Don't forget to always use the train spotters tone of voice when and if you feel the need to pass on any of these overwhelmingly interesting but usless facts.

I've noticed that you don't see so many yagies on the skylines of our towns any more, I just wondered if you had noticed as well?

ippy

I was concerned for Dibble's welfare: he's a fireman y'know: which is a dangerous occupation.  :)

P.S note the smiley: I wasn't being serious earlier and thought you might have guessed that.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Gonnagle on March 04, 2016, 10:03:19 AM
Dear Susan,

Susurration, a low murmur, one of Terry Pratchett's favourite words.

Gonnagle.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Gordon on March 04, 2016, 10:06:37 AM
He became a police officer in Top Cat.

So he did: perhaps he was always a Yank, I mean we never did hear his native accent in Trumpton.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Aruntraveller on March 04, 2016, 10:08:08 AM
I don't know why but I have always loved the word 'antimacassar'.

Not a word you can casually slip into conversation that easily. :(
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ekim on March 04, 2016, 10:09:58 AM
There used to be some odd 'truce' words used by children in games which seems to vary across the country.  In one area it was 'fainites', in another 'scribs', somewhere else it was 'cree' or 'barley'.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 04, 2016, 10:26:03 AM
I don't know why but I have always loved the word 'antimacassar'.

Not a word you can casually slip into conversation that easily. :(

You can still buy vintage antimacassars at markets and on eBay.

Can you still get macassar oil though?
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 04, 2016, 10:30:34 AM
Pelisse. I'd like to have one.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 04, 2016, 10:40:09 AM
Dear Susan,

Susurration, a low murmur, one of Terry Pratchett's favourite words.

Gonnagle.

That could be one of those hummerdrews, you never know?

ippy zero
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 04, 2016, 10:46:44 AM
I was concerned for Dibble's welfare: he's a fireman y'know: which is a dangerous occupation.  :)

P.S note the smiley: I wasn't being serious earlier and thought you might have guessed that.

Any of these usless but interesting facts are a serious matter, it's only the others that don't take them seriously; I'm sure you'll have noticed.

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: bluehillside Retd. on March 04, 2016, 11:01:44 AM
Hi Rhi,

Quote
And sidereal - 'of the stars'. Don't use that one either but just knowing it exists makes me glad.

Oh dear. I've already corrected this one on a different thread:

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?topic=11359.msg578970#msg578970

You're welcome  ;)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 04, 2016, 02:58:08 PM
You can still buy vintage antimacassars at markets and on eBay.

Can you still get macassar oil though?

There's a lot of people against it.

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: wigginhall on March 04, 2016, 03:07:06 PM
There used to be some odd 'truce' words used by children in games which seems to vary across the country.  In one area it was 'fainites', in another 'scribs', somewhere else it was 'cree' or 'barley'.

I think they were collected by the Opies in their 'Lore and Language of Schoolchildren'.   They said that truce words were the most important for children, and also that adults don't use them.   Well, I say to my wife, 'barley bungalow', when she is thrashing me with a besom.

Many regional variations, e.g. fainites used to be common in London.   And some towns had their own truce words.  I wonder if they have died out?  Maybe not, because they are also used just to take a break, e.g. to have a pee in the middle of a game.   Just say, 'the referee's a wanker'.   
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 04, 2016, 03:54:05 PM
I think they were collected by the Opies in their 'Lore and Language of Schoolchildren'.   They said that truce words were the most important for children, and also that adults don't use them.   Well, I say to my wife, 'barley bungalow', when she is thrashing me with a besom.

Many regional variations, e.g. fainites used to be common in London.   And some towns had their own truce words.  I wonder if they have died out?  Maybe not, because they are also used just to take a break, e.g. to have a pee in the middle of a game.   Just say, 'the referee's a wanker'.

 I'm ex Londoner and I have a lot of family in the Cleethorps, Grimsby area and I love the difference in the way we word various things, I would say "look at that over there in the distance", they would say "look way up yonder over there", sherbert, is kayli powder to them, there are loads of things of a similar nature where we differ, I enjoy hearing these differences.

I went to UCL in London a while back and the automatic voice telling us to mind the doors etc, on the lift; I noticed the London accent, I've been living in northern essex working mostly in the Cambridge area since 1970, and must have lost the usual familarity I would have had were I still living there and no I don't miss London, perhaps the art gallerys and the museums, not much else

Ippy
 
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Enki on March 04, 2016, 04:04:28 PM
How about these words for certain birds:

wind cuffer- kestrel

water pleep-snipe

couterneb-razorbill

And two of my favourites:

cattie face- short eared owl

little footie arse- little grebe
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: wigginhall on March 04, 2016, 04:07:58 PM
And peewit for lapwing; dabchick for little grebe. 
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 04, 2016, 04:19:19 PM
How about these words for certain birds:

wind cuffer- kestrel

water pleep-snipe

couterneb-razorbill

And two of my favourites:

cattie face- short eared owl

little footie arse- little grebe

Old English: Merle, a Blackbird

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Brownie on March 04, 2016, 05:57:13 PM
'Myoclonic' isn't an odd word!  It's a commonly used medical term, particularly in neurology, describing muscle spasm.  There are also ''tonic, clonic seizures''.  All those words are used to describe involuntary actions caused by disturbance neurotransmitter pathway.

The other words cited are extremely odd!
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: SusanDoris on March 04, 2016, 06:02:44 PM
Brownie

Thank you - I didn't know that! :)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Brownie on March 05, 2016, 04:39:26 PM
I almost wished I hadn't said anything after posting, SusanDoris.  Seemed a bit know-it-all, it wasn't meant like that :-[.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 05, 2016, 04:43:36 PM
Old English: Merle, a Blackbird

ippy

Merle Oberon was Anglo-Indian.  :)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Brownie on March 05, 2016, 04:48:26 PM
Indeed she was Len.  Very pretty.  Blackbirds are pretty too, not just to look at but they make a very mellow sound, so she was well named.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 05, 2016, 05:00:57 PM
Indeed she was Len.  Very pretty.  Blackbirds are pretty too, not just to look at but they make a very mellow sound, so she was well named.

I think the blackbird's orison is the most beautiful of the common birds.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Samuel on March 05, 2016, 05:15:32 PM
Amphidromic is nice. it relates to tidal patterns.

Gramfers, westcountry dialect word for woodlice

emmets - a word for ants
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: SusanDoris on March 05, 2016, 05:19:37 PM
I almost wished I hadn't said anything after posting, SusanDoris.  Seemed a bit know-it-all, it wasn't meant like that :-[.
I'm very glad you did post it! I thought it was very interesting.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Brownie on March 05, 2016, 08:00:46 PM
Thanks, makes me feel better.

Agree with you Len about the song of the blackbird.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 05, 2016, 08:18:45 PM
Brownie, never feel bad about imparting knowledge. It's one of the joys of this forum.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Ricky Spanish on March 06, 2016, 12:18:03 PM
There used to be some odd 'truce' words used by children in games which seems to vary across the country.  In one area it was 'fainites', in another 'scribs', somewhere else it was 'cree' or 'barley'.

For some reason, we used Keys/Keys'd as a truce word...
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 01:08:29 PM
Illeism - the practice of referring to oneself in the third person.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 06, 2016, 01:11:35 PM
Illeism - the practice of referring to oneself in the third person.

One is not amused!  >:(
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 01:25:13 PM
Don't say I never edumacate you hignorant rabble ...

Since we're discussing language, allow me to introduce the concept of Siamese Twins. The term is now rather frowned upon to refer to people - the preferred term is conjoined twins - but it persists in linguistics to refer to an idiomatic phrase where two words always appear together in a certain order, and sound odd if they're reversed. Technically it's known as an irreversible binomial - the two words aren't literally irreversible but it sounds peculiar if they are. It doesn't affect the meaning of the phrase; it just looks and sounds strange. Examples include fish and chips, black and blue and so on. Brenda works in a fish and chip shop is a perfectly normal phrase in standard English; Brenda works in a chips and fish shop isn't. John was beaten black and blue is what we're all used to; John was beaten blue and black isn't. We don't talk about mouth and foot disease and we don't give the house a really good tidy and leave it span and spick.

If you can have binomials, you can also have trinomials, with three words habitually in a certain order. Jack bought the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel is a prime example; Jack bought the whole thing, barrel, lock and stock is just weird. If we're poorly we're generally not able, willing and ready to go to the throat, nose and ear hospital.

So now you can bore your family and irritate your friends by knowing what an irreversible binomial is. Thank me later ;)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 01:47:18 PM
I'm ex Londoner and I have a lot of family in the Cleethorps, Grimsby area and I love the difference in the way we word various things, I would say "look at that over there in the distance", they would say "look way up yonder over there", sherbert, is kayli powder to them
It's kayli here in Leicestershire too - next door to Lincolnshire so no surprise, really.

I grew up around mostly old people so took on a fairly old-fashioned rural Leicestershire dialect (as opposed to Leicester accent - there's nobody well-known that I can think of with a Leicester accent, that of Gary Lineker having been almost totally obliterated). A few words of proper Leicestershire dialect that spring to mind:

Okey - ice cream (hence okey man);

Corsey - back yard;

Cob - bread roll;

Black over Bill's mother's - (mother rhymes with bother): A very dark grey, overcast sky full of rainclouds, shortly before a downpour.

Jitty - a narrow alleyway or path (my home village is stiff with them);

Nesh - feeling the cold easily.

More here: http://goo.gl/aUZ1Uv

Out in the sticks where I come from - cowshit country - it's a little different to how it's written on that list but ossletternipupumfrit really does mean I shall need to return home to retrieve said item, just as bardaregwumfersumsnap means I shall return to my abode in order to partake of luncheon.

There used to be an splendid audio clip online of a proper old Leicestershire dialect but I've just looked again and it's disappeared :( The phrase I remember, perfectly comprehensible to any native Chisit*, was the straightforward enquiry weerweryanooweryerwee, which obviously is Where were you and who were you with?

* A native of Leicester. From the popular phrase heard at Leicester market or indeed in any shop where pricing is unclear: Amma chisit?
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 06, 2016, 02:35:53 PM
Not really dialect but accents - I grew up in the neither/nor part of Greater London which can't really decide if it's East London or Essex, although since I've left it's definitely far more the former as East Enders have headed out. No need to describe the slang I grew up around, although as my family were the real deal when it comes to having a proper East End accent I have a fine ear for the difference between that and the Estuary accent (my own, pretty much), something not often noticed by tv producers, even on EastEnders itself.

Now I live in rural Essex; here there are still pockets of the old accent but it's dying out. In my part it's an amalgam of the burr of Suffolk and the flatness of the fens; there are a few younger people who have it but generally they speak poshed-up Estuary, no doubt caused in part by the migration in of families such as my own.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: SusanDoris on March 06, 2016, 02:41:03 PM
Referring to them thar irreversible whatsits - it's to do with the vowel sounds, isn't it, and the way the mouth can relax with an 'a', as in apple, sound; also the open and closed consonants. I read that somewhere, and it makes sense I think.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 02:54:06 PM
Merle Oberon was Anglo-Indian.  :)

Like your deep philosophical line of thought Len, a good one ;D.

ippy

Apparently, more of the deep stuff, Merlot wine was named as such by the French due to its colour being similar to the reddish brown of young blackbirds.

ippy 
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 03:03:47 PM
Just a thought, isn't it so that Londoners speak English and then anywhere outside of London we get all of the various accents that are a sport off of London English?

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ekim on March 06, 2016, 03:13:35 PM
It always seems strange to me how many British pop song singers lose there normal accent and switch into an almost Americanised accent when they sing.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 03:18:32 PM
Just a thought, isn't it so that Londoners speak English and then anywhere outside of London we get all of the various accents that are a sport off of London English?

ippy
Not so fast Mr Bond! Many linguists believe that Received Pronunciation - what's regarded as neutral standard English or BBC English - grew out of East Midlands English, since that was the language of court around the beginning of the 15th century (i.e. Chaucer's time).
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 06, 2016, 03:20:13 PM
I'm not even sure what London English is.

The other dominant accent here is Home Counties, but that isn't posh enough to count as RP.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 03:49:43 PM
Not so fast Mr Bond! Many linguists believe that Received Pronunciation - what's regarded as neutral standard English or BBC English - grew out of East Midlands English, since that was the language of court around the beginning of the 15th century (i.e. Chaucer's time).

Yes that's possible, but is it likely?

If I could chose an English accent that I would see as neutral, I'll have Richard Briars, "The Good Life", one any day, not posh just correct and easy on the ear.

ippy
 
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 03:53:43 PM
If I could have anybody's voice it would be Samuel L. Jackson's in Jackie Brown. And Mike Reid's laugh.

Then again, this one of course, who I could listen to reading out the phone directory: https://youtu.be/7M3JIUCT2kM
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Gordon on March 06, 2016, 04:23:49 PM
One things I've noticed on TV and occasional forays into England is the odd use of the word 'floor'. I'd use it, and I think other Scots would, to refer only to the floor in buildings, so to say 'put it on the floor you'd be inside' and if outside it would be 'put it on the ground'.

I'm sure though I've heard some of you guys down south refer to the 'ground', which I think of as always outside, as being the 'floor'.

It is clearly a boring Sunday afternoon in this neck of the woods  :)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 06, 2016, 04:41:32 PM
Ground outside, floor inside here, G.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 06, 2016, 04:52:44 PM
The richness of our (often infuriating) language is a joy. Sometimes looking for words reminds me of the way children try to grab dandelion seeds blowing on the wind. Just do it for fun.

(I put this on the Moving On thread but really it's more appropriate for this one.)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 05:02:03 PM
One things I've noticed on TV and occasional forays into England is the odd use of the word 'floor'. I'd use it, and I think other Scots would, to refer only to the floor in buildings, so to say 'put it on the floor you'd be inside' and if outside it would be 'put it on the ground'.

I'm sure though I've heard some of you guys down south refer to the 'ground', which I think of as always outside, as being the 'floor'.

It is clearly a boring Sunday afternoon in this neck of the woods  :)

Not all but a large amount of Glaswegians I really can't understand, I get something like about one in ten words without asking them to say it again.

For me, it's the least understandable British accent, closely followed by Newcastle and around that area.

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Rhiannon on March 06, 2016, 05:07:10 PM
When I did a media course at college we went to a film festival and ended up watching a documentary on sea coaling. My friends couldn't make head nor tail of it so I translated, having had a dad who liked watching Auf Weidershen, Pet.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 05:09:02 PM
When I did a media course at college we went to a film festival and ended up watching a documentary on sea coaling. My friends couldn't make head nor tail of it so I translated, having had a dad who liked watching Auf Weidershen, Pet.
I have rellies from Newcastle and I've spent quite a bit of time up there so I can tune in to it at the drop of a hat. Love that dialect :)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 07:44:11 PM
I have rellies from Newcastle and I've spent quite a bit of time up there so I can tune in to it at the drop of a hat. Love that dialect :)

Yes I like the dialects, it's the understanding, it's usually the difference that's fun.

ippy

Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 08:02:24 PM
I have rellies from Newcastle and I've spent quite a bit of time up there so I can tune in to it at the drop of a hat. Love that dialect :)

Can't remember where but I heard that Newcastle was in the forefront of the origins of our English language originally a sport off of Danish shipped over from Friesland, and if you listen to their people speaking the rhythm and tone of a Frieslander speaker speaking is still very similar in its overall sound to the Newcastle and around accent.

Arr I faintly remember something to do with Melvin Bragg about our language a while back, TV I think.   

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 10:39:24 PM
Can't remember where but I heard that Newcastle was in the forefront of the origins of our English language originally a sport off of Danish shipped over from Friesland, and if you listen to their people speaking the rhythm and tone of a Frieslander speaker speaking is still very similar in its overall sound to the Newcastle and around accent.

Arr I faintly remember something to do with Melvin Bragg about our language a while back, TV I think.   

ippy
Ipples, you may (I don't know) be thinking of Frisian, which is a minority dialect of Dutch only spoken now by a very small number of predominantly older people on the scattered Frisian islands off the coast of Holland. Thirty-odd years ago when I was still a youngster there was a superb BBC TV series called The Story of English (I still have the accompanying wonderful book in its original first edition hardback)* that filmed the few last quite elderly people who spoke/speak Frisian, and the amazing thing is that as a Germanic language how incredibly similar it is to English in many respects. There was a piece of film showing a Frisian speaker with his bicycle (as I remember it) speaking a different language but able to make himself understood to a Breton-speaking Frenchman from Brittany (where do you think the word 'Britain' comes from?). Spoken, it sounds like a foreign language - like Dutch - but has the same rhythm and feel as nearly-almost-not-quite-a bit like-but-not-quite-English. For example: what do you think this means - een kopje kaffee?. This is a short video with the fragrant Eddie Izzard gamely trying to converse with a Frisian farmer in old English and just about getting away with it: https://goo.gl/leXY3z

I'm reasonably good with languages; but I wish I'd learnt Frisian properly. These little languages with only a few usually elderly people speaking them are dying out, and that's a desperate tragedy.

A hell of a long time ago we all used to speak a bit like this. How absolutely fantastic and amazing is that :D

* http://goo.gl/30FpK4
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 11:18:07 PM
Ipples, you may (I don't know) be thinking of Frisian, which is a minority dialect of Dutch only spoken now by a very small number of predominantly older people on the scattered Frisian islands off the coast of Holland. Thirty-odd years ago when I was still a youngster there was a superb BBC TV series called The Story of English (I still have the accompanying wonderful book in its original first edition hardback)* that filmed the few last quite elderly people who spoke/speak Frisian, and the amazing thing is that as a Germanic language how incredibly similar it is to English in many respects. Spoken, it sounds like a foreign language - like Dutch - but has the same rhythm and feel as nearly-almost-not-quite-a bit like-but-not-quite-English. For example: what do you think this means - een kopje kaffee?

I'm reasonably good with languages; but I wish I'd learnt Frisian properly. These little languages with only a few usually elderly people speaking them are dying out, and that's a tragedy.

* http://goo.gl/30FpK4

Sounds about right, I think there was some changing of hands between the Dutch and Danes, so it looks like my sketchy memory was somewhere about right and I'm sure it was good old Melvin B that presented the series and probably researched & prduced it too.

ippy




Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 06, 2016, 11:30:55 PM
Shakes, just a thought that Melvins prog must have been where I heard that the American accent is a  mix of Norfolk & West Country accents, not as it seems a little like an Irish accent,

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 06, 2016, 11:39:09 PM
Shakes, just a thought that Melvins prog must have been where I heard that the American accent is a  mix of Norfolk & West Country accents, not as it seems a little like an Irish accent,

ippy
The consensus of opinion ippy is that what we think of as a bog-standard American accent grew out of a south-western English dialect, because of the number of English people from that corner of the realm who went across the water to the new world. South-western English accents are strongly rhotic (they pronounce and roll their Rs - farrrrrrm) which you can still hear to this day in an American accent.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 07, 2016, 09:35:29 AM
Rubbish!

A West Country ( or south western ) accent is nothing like an American one.

Americans have a wide variety of accents, America is a big place.

Having lived in the south west for the majority of my life, and heard it spoken around me, it sounds about as American as the Brummie or Scottish accent.

And the Irish accent sounds very different ( they speak very fast for a start, which isn't so in the south west)

Someone who is Irish with an accent would stand out just like a Scottish or Brummie accent.

Bristolian is also a different accent  to the part of the West Country I grew up in, ( it sounds similar to Welsh to me as their tones differ)

None of them sound American.

Btw they don't say farrrrrrm, it's "varm".

As in "down on the Varm"

John Wayne does not sound like he comes from the West Country, at least to a local.

I'm a local.
But unless you're extremely old you weren't a local four hundred years ago - linguistic analysis demonstrates that the British settlers took their rhotic accents with them. Hence the rhoticism of American accents.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 07, 2016, 09:40:46 AM
Rubbish!

A West Country ( or south western ) accent is nothing like an American one.

Americans have a wide variety of accents, America is a big place.

Having lived in the south west for the majority of my life, and heard it spoken around me, it sounds about as American as the Brummie or Scottish accent.

And the Irish accent sounds very different ( they speak very fast for a start, which isn't so in the south west)

Someone who is Irish with an accent would stand out just like a Scottish or Brummie accent.

Bristolian is also a different accent  to the part of the West Country I grew up in, ( it sounds similar to Welsh to me as their tones differ)

None of them sound American.

Btw they don't say farrrrrrm, it's "varm".

As in "down on the Varm"

John Wayne does not sound like he comes from the West Country, at least to a local.

I'm a local.

The American accent isn't a specialist area of mine Rose, but perhaps there is an explaination for where Shakes and myself have heard the same West Country and Norfolk mix origins of the American accent, I didn't imagin that I heard this and Melvin Bragg isn't that well known for making things up, well I've not heard anything to that effect.

Although it's a subject where I'm no authority about the inns and outs of, but I can read and I do wonder why your views seem to conflict with some other, not that lightweight voices?

By the way I'm not your enemy and I'm not trying to get one over on you, I'm just talking about things I've read and heard; I suspect Shakes is speaking to you in a similar manner to me, entirely out of interest and  not contest.

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Sebastian Toe on March 07, 2016, 09:47:55 AM
Here are interesting examples of how Shakespeare would have sounded and by extension, the accent taken by the early settlers to America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi-rejaoP7U
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 07, 2016, 09:49:02 AM
Rose appears to think not ... ::)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 07, 2016, 09:57:28 AM
It just doesn't sound anything like an American accent ippy.
Are you familiar with the fact that a language, written or spoken, can change pretty substantially in four hundred years?
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Sebastian Toe on March 07, 2016, 10:00:33 AM


Btw they don't say farrrrrrm, it's "varm".

As in "down on the Varm"


The salient point which you seem to have missed is the fact that you pronounce it 'vaRm' - that is rhotic.

And not 'vahm' which is non-rhotic

this explains simply;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pCKdk7LTXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au57KSivkG8

and this much more interestingly, concentrating on the Boston accent which is very non-rhotic;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9DwPz52UhQ&ebc=ANyPxKqeahcaEMvnb2f_by2hJoXb8IZgaA_eEl-DVEuajLxt7CPBS3A4GO33_Jk68vTwpBMaeSul5RgtmjFrZxuocZ0C1WjR1w
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Sebastian Toe on March 07, 2016, 11:46:59 AM
Shakespeare, globe theatre
Old pronouciations

http://youtu.be/gPlpphT7n9s

I already posted a link!

Here are interesting examples of how Shakespeare would have sounded and by extension, the accent taken by the early settlers to America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlpphT7n9s



..please pay attention!  :P
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Hope on March 07, 2016, 12:47:53 PM
I've also had different reactions from different accents speakers to my own accents.
My (Aussie) wife really struggles with her accent.  She often gets told how strong her accent is by new chiropody clients, only to then be told that that accent has completely disappeared by Australians she meets or speaks with by phone.  I can't really hear any Aussie accent in her voice - the only indication for me is that she sometimes uses Aussie phraseology.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 09, 2016, 04:45:00 PM
Yes, so many people hear different things  :o :)

I find the Ausies like our Scottish friends where you can insult the hell out all aspects of their countries and get just as good and well formed insults back and then after a couple of friendly drinks all walk off laughing afterwards.

Pro Oz and Scots.

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Hope on March 10, 2016, 04:09:47 PM
I find the Ausies like our Scottish friends where you can insult the hell out all aspects of their countries and get just as good and well formed insults back and then after a couple of friendly drinks all walk off laughing afterwards.
The only times I'd disagree is when one of them gets physically violent rather laughing the insult off.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: floo on March 10, 2016, 04:13:17 PM
My (Aussie) wife really struggles with her accent.  She often gets told how strong her accent is by new chiropody clients, only to then be told that that accent has completely disappeared by Australians she meets or speaks with by phone.  I can't really hear any Aussie accent in her voice - the only indication for me is that she sometimes uses Aussie phraseology.

Did you meet your wife in the UK or OZ?
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Hope on March 10, 2016, 04:14:10 PM
Did you meet your wife in the UK or OZ?
Neither - I met her when we both worked at an international school in S. India!!
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: floo on March 10, 2016, 04:19:58 PM
Neither - I met her when we both worked at an international school in S. India!!

Riiiiiiight! :)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Brownie on March 10, 2016, 05:20:16 PM
Some of us have led very exciting lives!  I always fancied India when I was younger, now going to Whitstable is a big event for me.

The best way to know how we sound is to record our own telephone answering message and play it back.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 10, 2016, 07:59:54 PM

The best way to know how we sound is to record our own telephone answering message and play it back.

I first heard myself speaking when tape recorders became available, and it sent me scuttling to elocution classes.  :)
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Hope on March 10, 2016, 10:31:21 PM
Some of us have led very exciting lives!  I always fancied India when I was younger, now going to Whitstable is a big event for me.
Since our time in India (Kay 1981-4; myself 1982-4), we have lived in Wales for 8 years (1984-1992), Nepal for about 7.5 with our two daughters in attendance with us (1992-2000) and then Wales for another 17 years (2000-date).
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: ippy on March 11, 2016, 07:03:21 PM
The only times I'd disagree is when one of them gets physically violent rather laughing the insult off.

That's the thing the Ozies and Scots know the score and hand it back ysually with interest, insults, not open warfare, I sometimes wonder about you Hope.

It seems to me that you are unable to understand even the simplest of things about anything unless it's written out in torturous detail, without a misplaced comma or full stop? You can' t be that thick very few people are that bad.

ippy
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 11, 2016, 07:06:14 PM
That's the thing the Ozies and Scots know the score and hand it back ysually with interest, insults, not open warfare, I sometimes wonder about you Hope.

It seems to me that you are unable to understand even the simplest of things about anything unless it's written out in torturous detail, without a misplaced comma or full stop? You can' t be that thick very few people are that bad.

ippy

It's quite obvious to everybody that Hope, along with Sassy and a few others, resort to pretended thickness when they have no sensible answers.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 11, 2016, 07:07:37 PM
You're a better man than I'll ever be, youngster; you used the word 'pretended.'
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 11, 2016, 07:11:19 PM
You're a better man than I'll ever be, youngster; you used the word 'pretended.'

Well, I'm with Ippy on this one ... nobody on this forum could really be that thick.
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Shaker on March 11, 2016, 07:15:49 PM
Well, I'm with Ippy on this one ... nobody on this forum could really be that thick.
As I said ...
Title: Re: 'Mother Tongue' odd words
Post by: Leonard James on March 11, 2016, 07:21:27 PM
As I said ...

You really are a cynical old sod at times, Steve!  :)