Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: floo on March 18, 2016, 04:23:19 PM
-
deleted
-
The more complex life is the rarer it's going to be.
Nevertheless, with a big enough stage it's going to happen somewhere - and even that part of the universe of which we can conceive mathematically is vast beyond human comprehension. So I'd put good money on it. The idea that there's no life (intelligent or otherwise) anywhere else but on Earth is really quite laughably parochial, more suited to the tiny hole-and-corner universe of theism than science. An incredibly rare chance event, given a large enough stage and sufficient time, will occur repeatedly, thus making it not that rare over all.
-
Possibly. It would be arrogant of me, or anyone, to say there definitely isn't.
-
Yup, they could have had gay rights while we were still emerging from the mud! On the other hand they might be quite thick, or without any quality resembling compassion.
When I meet one I'll let you know.
-
If other intelligent life forms do exist, it is possible they are more advanced than us humans and have it all sussed.
We are 1% different to Chimpanzees. All our intelligence and everything about us is somewhere in that
1%.
The smartest Chimp I think can sign a few words to make a sentence. Our smartest brains have figured out when the universe started, and some of the laws that govern it.
Imagine meeting a species that was 2% different from us in the same direction that we are from Chimps!
-
I think the clever money says that microbial life will exist wherever there is a warm wet rocky planet with reasonable stability and no adverse issues. Much rarer than that would be complex multicellular life, and much rarer still intelligence and consciousness; the rarity being the main reason why we haven't found any little green men yet. I have an awful feeling that highly precocious life forms risk self-annihilation.
-
There's definitely life on whichever planet Vlad is on.
-
There's definitely life on whichever planet Vlad is on.
Remember that life need not include intelligent life.
-
Wonderful, you godless Earthlings can believe in the existence of intelligent life on other planets, without one shred of scientific evidence. Congrats on that, and I know you godless atheists have no choice but to believe, cause it's against your religion to believe Earthlings are special. Best to start taking Klingon language classes!
"Moves Like Jabba"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ftVPk-WZw
-
Wonderful, you godless Earthlings can believe in the existence of intelligent life on other planets
If we're Earthlings and by implication, you are not, doesn't mean there must be life on other planets?
"Moves Like Jabba"
You know Jabba was an enormous obese slug?
-
Wonderful, you godless Earthlings can believe in the existence of intelligent life on other planets, without one shred of scientific evidence. Congrats on that, and I know you godless atheists have no choice but to believe, cause it's against your religion to believe Earthlings are special. Best to start taking Klingon language classes!
"Moves Like Jabba"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ftVPk-WZw
I'm not 'Godless', OMW. I asked you on another thread, is it a requirement of the Christian faith to not believe in the possibility of life on other planets? If so, no-one has told me.
For the record, it is my view that Earthlings are very special, all of us. If there is another world out there with inhabitants, they will be special too.
-
I'm not 'Godless', OMW. I asked you on another thread, is it a requirement of the Christian faith to not believe in the possibility of life on other planets? If so, no-one has told me.
On the other hand I have heard some people state, apparently in all seriousness, that should humanity ever encounter intelligent extraterrestrial life, the first thing that needs to happen is that the aliens are saved by hearing the good news of Jesus ::)
-
On the other hand I have heard some people state, apparently in all seriousness, that should humanity ever encounter intelligent extraterrestrial life, the first thing that needs to happen is that the aliens are saved by hearing the good news of Jesus ::)
:o
Be Rational's aliens with the 2% extra intelligence meets the YEC
No wonder we can never pin down those flying saucers ;)
;D
👽💨
-
On the other hand I have heard some people state, apparently in all seriousness, that should humanity ever encounter intelligent extraterrestrial life, the first thing that needs to happen is that the aliens are saved by hearing the good news of Jesus ::)
That reminds me of the book,'The War of the Worlds' by H G Wells. A group of Christians led by the local vicar approached the crater where the aliens had landed, to welcome them and preach. That book had such an effect on me! I was very, very young when I first read it and used to wake in the morning and look out of my window onto the allotments that backed onto our garden, wondering if Martians had landed.
Anyway they never did and I outgrew looking for them.
-
I think life on other planets given the size of everything is virtually inevitable.
Whether it builds and explores like us, is debatable.
I don't know how probable it is that another creature could visit their moon for example.
-
That reminds me of the book,'The War of the Worlds' by H G Wells. A group of Christians led by the local vicar approached the crater where the aliens had landed, to welcome them and preach. That book had such an effect on me! I was very, very young when I first read it and used to wake in the morning and look out of my window onto the allotments that backed onto our garden, wondering if Martians had landed.
Anyway they never did and I outgrew looking for them.
Some how I reckon the thrumming of the Martians and the death ray was more scary in the 1950s version ;)
-
Wonderful, you godless Earthlings can believe in the existence of intelligent life on other planets, without one shred of scientific evidence. Congrats on that, and I know you godless atheists have no choice but to believe, cause it's against your religion to believe Earthlings are special. Best to start taking Klingon language classes!
"Moves Like Jabba"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ftVPk-WZw
Its possible that intelligent life exists elsewhere but it may not. We don't know.
-
Some how I reckon the thrumming of the Martians and the death ray was more scary in the 1950s version ;)
I've not seen the film, except extracts from it, the book was excellent. I suppose it still is, I might dip into it again.
-
On the other hand I have heard some people state, apparently in all seriousness, that should humanity ever encounter intelligent extraterrestrial life, the first thing that needs to happen is that the aliens are saved by hearing the good news of Jesus ::)
If Christianity is true, probably, they will already have heard the good news about Christ.
-
If Christianity is true, probably, they will already have heard the good news about Christ.
Rather cryptically, Jesus even states that he has other flocks elsewhere - whether that means here on earth or elsewhere in the universe is simply not explained.
-
Rather cryptically, Jesus even states that he has other flocks elsewhere - whether that means here on earth or elsewhere in the universe is simply not explained.
How remiss of him.
-
Rather cryptically, Jesus even states that he has other flocks elsewhere - whether that means here on earth or elsewhere in the universe is simply not explained.
[/queote]
Rather cryptically you believe Jesus stated etc etc, you nor anyone else knows that.
ippy
-
Wonderful, you godless Earthlings can believe in the existence of intelligent life on other planets, without one shred of scientific evidence.
While we have no direct evidence, we do have the evidence of what happened on this planet (life got going pretty much as soon as it could), evidence that planets are plentiful and evidence of just how big the minimum size of the universe is. All of that suggests that either what happened on Earth was extremely unlikely or there is life elsewhere.
I know you godless atheists have no choice but to believe, cause it's against your religion to believe Earthlings are special.
Drivel.
-
While we have no direct evidence, we do have the evidence of what happened on this planet (life got going pretty much as soon as it could), evidence that planets are plentiful and evidence of just how big the minimum size of the universe is. All of that suggests that either what happened on Earth was extremely unlikely or there is life elsewhere.
Drivel.
Seconded.
ippy
-
I think it would be totally incredible if Earth was the only planet to host intelligent life forms.
I think it is very likely microbial life will be found elsewhere in our Solar system, possibly Mars, in the next few decades.
Personally, I feel certain that intelligent life must also exist somewhere 'out there' but could be so far away that we will never have evidence.
-
I think it is very likely microbial life will be found elsewhere in our Solar system, possibly Mars, in the next few decades.
Personally, I feel certain that intelligent life must also exist somewhere 'out there' but could be so far away that we will never have evidence.
Mind readers can be very annoying.
Regards ippy
-
How remiss of him.
Why? Is it frustrating you because he doesn't tell us whether there is life outside the earth's atmosphere?
-
Why? Is it frustrating you because he doesn't tell us whether there is life outside the earth's atmosphere?
I think Shaker was making an ironic comment on the ridiculous notion that the views of a middle-eastern Jew who supposedly lived 2,000 or so years ago, as portrayed by his fans, would represent an authoritative view on extra-terrestrial life.
-
I think Shaker was making an ironic comment on the ridiculous notion that the views of a middle-eastern Jew who supposedly lived 2,000 or so years ago, as portrayed by his fans, would represent an authoritative view on extra-terrestrial life.
Unless of course, he was himself, an alien.
;)
-
I think Shaker was making an ironic comment on the ridiculous notion that the views of a middle-eastern Jew who supposedly lived 2,000 or so years ago, as portrayed by his fans, would represent an authoritative view on extra-terrestrial life.
Well, at least one person here gets irony. Certainly sorts out those who do from those who don't.
-
I'm still mourning the loss of Sooty :(
;)
-
I'm still mourning the loss of Sooty :(
;)
The clangers would have the answer to this thread, your post reminded me Rose.
My mum was a Rose, long gone unfortunatly
ippy
-
The clangers would have the answer to this thread, your post reminded me Rose.
My mum was a Rose, long gone unfortunatly
ippy
🌹 :)
-
🌹 :)
Come to think of it Rose there's a lot of people that don't even believe in the Clangers.
ippy
-
On the other hand I have heard some people state, apparently in all seriousness, that should humanity ever encounter intelligent extraterrestrial life, the first thing that needs to happen is that the aliens are saved by hearing the good news of Jesus ::)
Ray Bradbury wrote a short story about that. It's rather good as I remember, it involves a priest meeting aliens who look like balloons, so he has to rethink the image of the crucifixion since obviously one cannot crucify a balloon.
-
On the other hand I have heard some people state, apparently in all seriousness, that should humanity ever encounter intelligent extraterrestrial life, the first thing that needs to happen is that the aliens are saved by hearing the good news of Jesus ::)
When what will happen is that antitheists will try to SELL them copies of The God Delusion.
-
When what will happen is that antitheists will try to SELL them copies of The God Delusion.
Why are theists so obsessed with Richard Dawkins and The God Delusion? It's far from Dawkins' best work IMO and I thought Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett was a better critique of religion.
-
Why are theists so obsessed with Richard Dawkins and The God Delusion? It's far from Dawkins' best work IMO and I thought Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett was a better critique of religion.
I'd agree with your initil observation re. 'The God Delusion', SKoS. Not sure about the bit that proceeds it, though. This is just about the only forum I've been involved with where the book is even referenced (apart from when it first came out) and, I'd suggest, in fairly equal measure by theists and atheists. Haven't read the Dennett book, but friends who have - both religious and non-religious have told me that it 'ain't much cop' (to quote one non-religious person).
-
I'd agree with your initil observation re. 'The God Delusion', SKoS. Not sure about the bit that proceeds it, though. This is just about the only forum I've been involved with where the book is even referenced (apart from when it first came out) and, I'd suggest, in fairly equal measure by theists and atheists. Haven't read the Dennett book, but friends who have - both religious and non-religious have told me that it 'ain't much cop' (to quote one non-religious person).
The 'equal measure' can be reduced to
a) Vlad constantly mentions him (albeit because he likely both fears and has a crush on him)
b) other people respond to a)
-
The 'equal measure' can be reduced to
a) Vlad constantly mentions him (albeit because he likely both fears and has a crush on him)
b) other people respond to a)
Fear Dawkins? You wish.
Crush? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
-
Why are theists so obsessed with Richard Dawkins and The God Delusion? It's far from Dawkins' best work IMO and I thought Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett was a better critique of religion.
Atheism: The Case Against God by George H. Smith remains the single best demolition job on theism that I've ever read, however. Excellent book; wish it was better known.
http://goo.gl/ibi4KV
Dawkins's best book IMO is the little-read (because difficult) The Extended Phenotype.
-
I must admit I'm not sure how reading anything can convince one way or the other as to the existence of God, although I am sure there are some fine books on the subject. For me the most important things are personal experience and honest inner searching, whatever conclusion you reach.
-
I must admit I'm not sure how reading anything can convince one way or the other as to the existence of God, although I am sure there are some fine books on the subject. For me the most important things are personal experience and honest inner searching, whatever conclusion you reach.
Exactly - although IME reading widely around a subject can introduce you to points or arguments you'd never thought of before.
-
Atheism: The Case Against God by George H. Smith remains the single best demolition job on theism that I've ever read, however. Excellent book; wish it was better known.
http://goo.gl/ibi4KV
Dawkins's best book IMO is the little-read (because difficult) The Extended Phenotype.
I haven't read the George H. Smith but I'll check it out - thanks!
I thought The Extended Phenotype was good too. More accessible (but longer) is The Ancestor's Tale which I also enjoyed.
-
Exactly - although IME reading widely around a subject can introduce you to points or arguments you'd never thought of before.
Which might well explain why I find the argument put forward by folk like yourself, Shakes, to be so limiting. For instance, it doesn't take many pages of reading books like Ehrman's 'How Jesus Became God' or 'Lost Christianities' to see flaws in his arguments; or books by the likes of Grayling, Hitchens or Dawkins to see inconsistencies in their arguments. As I've mentioned before, although I was brought up ina Christian family, I didn't become a Christian until I was nigh-on 18. The school library was full of philosophical and other material that I read quite avidly. It was as I understood the emptiness of so much that I turned 'back', first to Hinduism and Buddhism and then to Christianity.
-
Which might well explain why I find the argument put forward by folk like yourself, Shakes, to be so limiting. For instance, it doesn't take many pages of reading books like Ehrman's 'How Jesus Became God' or 'Lost Christianities' to see flaws in his arguments; or books by the likes of Grayling, Hitchens or Dawkins to see inconsistencies in their arguments.
Haven't noticed any. Name some.
-
Haven't noticed any. Name some.
Yes, Hope, please do. Perhaps a new thread so we can discuss these flaws and inconsistencies...?
-
Exactly - although IME reading widely around a subject can introduce you to points or arguments you'd never thought of before.
Well, yes - it was reading books on theism that were completely nonsensical that started me questioning.
Not sure that was their intended purpose mind.
-
Very likely not!
-
Haven't noticed any. Name some.
Try Michael Onfray Shakes, if you haven't already done so, Hope would probably not like it that much, so that on its own would be inclined to award his books at the very least 5 or 6 merit points.
ippy
-
Try Michael Onfray Shakes, if you haven't already done so, Hope would probably not like it that much, so that on its own would be inclined to award his books at the very least 5 or 6 merit points.
ippy
Got it, read it. Several times ;)
-
Which might well explain why I find the argument put forward by folk like yourself, Shakes, to be so limiting. For instance, it doesn't take many pages of reading books like Ehrman's 'How Jesus Became God' or 'Lost Christianities' to see flaws in his arguments; or books by the likes of Grayling, Hitchens or Dawkins to see inconsistencies in their arguments.
Unfortunately Hope, if we use your 'flaw finding' arguments used recently against the Book of Mormon elsewhere on this forum, you will pardon my indifference to any 'inconsistency' claims that you might be making. ::)
-
Wonderful, you godless Earthlings can believe in the existence of intelligent life on other planets, without one shred of scientific evidence. Congrats on that, and I know you godless atheists have no choice but to believe, cause it's against your religion to believe Earthlings are special. Best to start taking Klingon language classes!
"Moves Like Jabba"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ftVPk-WZw
More disingenuous tosh.
What I don't believe in are the assertions made by believers that magic and the supernatural really do exist.
When we talk about the possibility of life existing elsewhere in the universe we are still referring to the natural universe and not some extra-dimensional realm dreamed up by believers.
-
Did anybody catch the mini-series of Childhood's End shown over the past three weeks on (I think) Sky Atlantic? It was a poor attempt to movie-fy a great novel by the late, great Arthur C. Clarke but it did raise some very interesting points (less so than the book, which as is mostly the case far better at communicating ideas) about alien life.
-
Did anybody catch the mini-series of Childhood's End shown over the past three weeks on (I think) Sky Atlantic? It was a poor attempt to movie-fy a great novel by the late, great Arthur C. Clarke but it did raise some very interesting points (less so than the book, which as is mostly the case far better at communicating ideas) about alien life.
Super book.
-
Super book.
Absolutely damn straight. Not a very good attempt at bringing it to the small screen, sadly. I'm glad I've seen it - Charles Dance, a superb actor at the best of times, was the best thing about it - but I fear I won't be rushing out to buy the DVD.
-
Did anybody catch the mini-series of Childhood's End shown over the past three weeks on (I think) Sky Atlantic? It was a poor attempt to movie-fy a great novel by the late, great Arthur C. Clarke but it did raise some very interesting points (less so than the book, which as is mostly the case far better at communicating ideas) about alien life.
Recorded (it was Sky 1) - still got to watch the last episode. Very, very long time since I read the book...
-
Absolutely damn straight. Not a very good attempt at bringing it to the small screen, sadly. I'm glad I've seen it - Charles Dance, a superb actor at the best of times, was the best thing about it - but I fear I won't be rushing out to buy the DVD.
There's a great film to be made that's for sure.
-
There's a great film to be made that's for sure.
Provided Hollywood don't get hold of it, yes.