Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: SweetPea on March 27, 2016, 09:50:18 AM
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..... for the wee band of Christians still remaining on this board.
Thank you, Yeshua for showing us the way out of the matrix of this world.
Have a wonderful day!
...... and fellow posters too!
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..... for the wee band of Christians still remaining on this board.
Thank you, Yeshua for showing us the way out of the matrix of this world.
Have a wonderful day!
...... and fellow posters too!
I was getting around to it, but thankfully you beat me to it...
He rose over 2,000 years ago. Easter isn't the same for me... He is already risen, alive and at the right hand of God the Father.
Whilst it is good to remember the passover for passover sake is more important. :)
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I was getting around to it, but thankfully you beat me to it...
He rose over 2,000 years ago. Easter isn't the same for me... He is already risen, alive and at the right hand of God the Father.
Whilst it is good to remember the passover for passover sake is more important. :)
Yes, I hear you. But, the last couple of years, what we celebrate at Easter means a lot to me as I'm a relatively new born-again in Christ.
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Oh SweetPea I thought you were someone else who used to post on another forum and has same nickname. She has been a Christian for donkeys' years so she isn't you! Did you do anything on Thursday SweetPea, a vigil or readings? Mine were only private, not in church, but I have to say I always found that particular evening very moving when I went to church.
I hope you had a happy Easter day.
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..... for the wee band of Christians still remaining on this board.
Thank you, Yeshua for showing us the way out of the matrix of this world.
Have a wonderful day!
...... and fellow posters too!
He is risen indeed!
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Oh SweetPea I thought you were someone else who used to post on another forum and has same nickname. She has been a Christian for donkeys' years so she isn't you! Did you do anything on Thursday SweetPea, a vigil or readings? Mine were only private, not in church, but I have to say I always found that particular evening very moving when I went to church.
I hope you had a happy Easter day.
I use to wonder if the same sweetpea as the other forum. Use to call my daughter the same name as a baby.
Popeye has a lot to answer for.. LOL. x
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Yes, I hear you. But, the last couple of years, what we celebrate at Easter means a lot to me as I'm a relatively new born-again in Christ.
As I have grown, I realise some pomp and ceremony are for the lack of realism in their spirituality.
Without love and truth these feasts would be nothing for any believer. Glad you have had a good Easter, Sp.
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Brownie and Sassy, I don't really 'do' forums, this is the only one I post on. I joined NGLR under another name for a short time only to have a go at another poster who was damning homosexuals.... just couldn't sit back and just read. Funny, I didn't even discover forums until after I retired.
Brownie, actually, I have been the same as you this past week and engaging in quiet contemplation when on my own. I attended church on Sunday. Wonderful, rousing Easter hymns.
Sassy, yes, even as a believer, I sometimes think we fall short of the huge, HUGE price that was paid for us through Yeshua. The gravity and meaning of the event is almost too much to comprehend.
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I sometimes think we fall short of the huge, HUGE price that was paid for us through Yeshua. The gravity and meaning of the event is almost too much to comprehend.
I hate to rain on your parade, Blossom, but people make/and have made equally huge sacrifices for their beliefs, or to protect their loved ones, throughout history.
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I hate to rain on your parade, Blossom, but people make/and have made equally huge sacrifices for their beliefs, or to protect their loved ones, throughout history.
Have they, Len. Perhaps you could name a single mere human being, who ever claimed to have been going to their death for the whole of humanity, or whose death was later claimed to be this extensive?
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Have they, Len.
Yes they have. In their many millions.
Perhaps you could name a single mere human being
Mere human being as opposed to what?
who ever claimed to have been going to their death for the whole of humanity, or whose death was later claimed to be this extensive?
You can claim to be a cheese and pickle sandwich or indeed anything if you won't scruple to cough up with the evidence for it.
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Have they, Len. Perhaps you could name a single mere human being, who ever claimed to have been going to their death for the whole of humanity, or whose death was later claimed to be this extensive?
Claiming it is fine: it being true is another thing entirely, which is where you need evidence supported by a methodology.
Since the very idea that this chap died 'for me' is patently ridiculous (whatever his fans claim) we do need something a little more convincing if it is to be considered a serious proposition.
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Claiming it is fine: it being true is another thing entirely, which is where you need evidence supported by a methodology.
Since the very idea that this chap died 'for me' is patently ridiculous (whatever his fans claim) we do need something a little more convincing if it is to be considered a serious proposition.
I'm sorry but now we need evidence supported by a methodology?
Sounds like you have lost the evidence argument and are adding a qualifier.
Goddodging seems to be your methodology.
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I'm sorry but now we need evidence supported by a methodology?
Yes. Precisely.
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I'm sorry but now we need evidence supported by a methodology?
Sounds like you have lost the evidence argument and are adding a qualifier.
Goddodging seems to be your methodology.
Psst! - in case you missed it, and I'd hate you to look foolish, the claim under discussion isn't mine.
Perhaps, if you'd like something useful to do, you could encourage Hope to explain himself.
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Psst! - in case you missed it, and I'd hate you to look foolish,
Oh no Gordon is threatening me with his powers ;D
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Psst! - in case you missed it, and I'd hate you to look foolish, the claim under discussion isn't mine.
Perhaps, if you'd like something useful to do, you could encourage Hope to explain himself.
Aye - he's done it before elsewhere, or rather, he says he has, which of course is a very different thing altogether.
Here, however, he seems to be finding it difficult to stump up with the goods. It's not a matter of writing out his so-called methodology for evaluating supernatural claims all over again because if, as he says, he's done it before a simple link would suffice.
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Oh no Gordon is threatening me with his powers ;D
C'mon Vlad - looking foolish seems to come naturally to you, and without any help from me (or indeed anyone).
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Vlad keeps on throwing out accusations of 'God-dodging' like it's evidence of something; in reality it doesn't even have any meaning.
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Vlad keeps on throwing out accusations of 'God-dodging' like it's evidence of something; in reality it doesn't even have any meaning.
It is the collected attempts by the individual to put God at arms length.
Atheists will therefore seek to debate biblical literalists and those who emphasise the old testament because they meet the caricature view they hold or cast those with whom they are debating in that mold.
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Brownie and Sassy, I don't really 'do' forums, this is the only one I post on. I joined NGLR under another name for a short time only to have a go at another poster who was damning homosexuals.... just couldn't sit back and just read. Funny, I didn't even discover forums until after I retired.
Brownie, actually, I have been the same as you this past week and engaging in quiet contemplation when on my own. I attended church on Sunday. Wonderful, rousing Easter hymns.
Sassy, yes, even as a believer, I sometimes think we fall short of the huge, HUGE price that was paid for us through Yeshua. The gravity and meaning of the event is almost too much to comprehend.
Thank you SweetPea, I'm with you (except for the rousing hymns but that's just personal taste).
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It is the collected attempts by the individual to put God at arms length.
Atheists will therefore seek to debate biblical literalists and those who emphasise the old testament because they meet the caricature view they hold or cast those with whom they are debating in that mold.
I see no atheist here dodging argument with any liberals or non-literalists. And atheists can't dodge a God that they don't believe in. Stop taking refuge in that argument as though is has a shred of meaning.
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I see no atheist here dodging argument with any liberals or non-literalists. And atheists can't dodge a God that they don't believe in. Stop taking refuge in that argument as though is has a shred of meaning.
I disagree................... i'm afraid this forum is replete with caricature.
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Celebrated Easter with friends at the lovely church of Aston le Walls with a packed congregation. We felt very privileged to take part in this wonderful celebration of Christ's resurrection.
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Have they, Len. Perhaps you could name a single mere human being, who ever claimed to have been going to their death for the whole of humanity, or whose death was later claimed to be this extensive?
Buffy Summers.
In fact, she did it twice.
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Have they, Len. Perhaps you could name a single mere human being, who ever claimed to have been going to their death for the whole of humanity, or whose death was later claimed to be this extensive?
He went to his death because he upset the authorities of his church and refused to back down. If he ever actually claimed to be dying for other people's sins, he was suffering from delusions of grandeur.
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I agree with you, Len. As it happens I don't think he ever made such a claim; we undertook his ministry knowing that on teaching people a good way of living he'd quite possibly end up on the wrong side of powerful people. If anything that makes him a more interesting and sympathetic character than the one with the cosmic get out of jail free card that's been peddled by the church.
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I agree with you, Len. As it happens I don't think he ever made such a claim; we undertook his ministry knowing that on teaching people a good way of living he'd quite possibly end up on the wrong side of powerful people. If anything that makes him a more interesting and sympathetic character than the one with the cosmic get out of jail free card that's been peddled by the church.
Yes, I fear Mammon is a powerful adversary for righteousness.
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PS to SweetPea. Good for you for joining that other forum in order to speak out against those who were posting homophobic comments. Nice to see a poster who sticks up for principles.
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I'm quite taken with the notion that muslim martyrs have been labouring all these years under a mistranslation - apparently they don't get 72 virgins after all (who presumably would have no choice in the matter in any case) but rather they get 72 golden sultanas.
OK, I admit it...it's the potential for a slogan that's doing it for me:
He is Raisin!
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I'm quite taken with the notion that muslim martyrs have been labouring all these years under a mistranslation - apparently they don't get 72 virgins after all (who presumably would have no choice in the matter in any case) but rather they get 72 golden sultanas.
OK, I admit it...it's the potential for a slogan that's doing it for me:
He is Raisin!
Blast, I thought it would be 73!
ippy
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I wonder if potential martyrs have considered what it would be like to have 72 virgins? Who would seriously want that?
The women would be martyrs are promised something different. I'm sure they are grateful not to be given 72 virgin men.
Sorry SP, off topic.
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I wonder if potential martyrs have considered what it would be like to have 72 virgins? Who would seriously want that?
The women would be martyrs are promised something different. I'm sure they are grateful not to be given 72 virgin men.
Sorry SP, off topic.
I agree, say one romp per day with a new one each time.
What do you do after two and a bit months?
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Plus some of them could be quite difficult. Sounds unbelievably boring to me. However they believe it is all allegorical so makes no difference. I was merely wondering if any of them had seriously considered what that would be like, I bet they haven't.
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What has 72 virgins to do with the raising of Jesus Christ. Have you no respect for the beliefs of others or the sections of the forum?
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For all your talk of.... 'allowing people to believe what they want as long as they don't force their views on others'.... you atheist groups jump in very fast when you see any two people quietly discussing a matter of their faith.
Why don't you leave them alone to discuss their faith without barging in with your usual atheist grind again and again?!!!
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That's what the Faith Sharing sub-forum is for.
This isn't the Faith Sharing sub-forum - challenge and critique of beliefs is allowed.
So stop whining.
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That's what the Faith Sharing sub-forum is for.
This isn't the Faith Sharing sub-forum - challenge and critique of beliefs is allowed.
So stop whining.
That's no reason why you should have this compulsive & obsessive need to barge in and blurt out your often repeated scorn and malice.......every time someone talks of Jesus or faith. Normal respect for others will not come amiss. You should try it!
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That's no reason why you should have this compulsive & obsessive need to barge in and blurt out your often repeated scorn and malice.......every time someone talks of Jesus or faith. Normal respect for others will not come amiss. You should try it!
No thanks. Debate and discussion are what forums exist for in the first place. That's why we're here. If you have a problem with that, and you clearly do, online forums are probably not for you.
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No thanks. Debate and discussion are what forums exist for in the first place. That's why we're here. If you have a problem with that, and you clearly do, online forums are probably not for you.
Oh.... please! Don't dignify your compulsive scorn and derision by calling it 'debate and discussion'! ::)
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Point proven.
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That's no reason why you should have this compulsive & obsessive need to barge in and blurt out your often repeated scorn and malice.......every time someone talks of Jesus or faith. Normal respect for others will not come amiss. You should try it!
Sorry and not sorry apologies for breaking in on your exchange, but I felt that I couldn't let go the part of your post where you have said about, "normal respect for others will not come amiss".
Having respect for others that have a half blue elephant half man and they think this kind of thing is a god worthy of worship that's no better than someone that believes in someone that they think has come back from the dead, both beliefs preposterous and you want respect for these beliefs and having these beliefs?
It's not like the two things about religions I have referred to above are on their own, there are many more equally preposterous things contained within these beliefs.
It's a very tall order for me to have any respect for any of those beliefs, I don't have any respect for them, so really it's not surprising the people like us that you refer to as atheists hand out a fair bit of stick to people like you and in your case Sriram you really believe in these rather daft to me ideas and you even have some kind of superiority complex about yourself, it's your own fault, you turn yourself into such an obvious target.
It also makes me wonder why you're so surprised when you get some stick, this time from Shaker.
ippy
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Have they, Len. Perhaps you could name a single mere human being, who ever claimed to have been going to their death for the whole of humanity, or whose death was later claimed to be this extensive?
The claim for this was unquestionably made for him later - principally by Paul. The earliest gospel to be written (Mark) goes no further than one enigmatic sentence "To give his life as a ransom for many".
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I agree with you, Len. As it happens I don't think he ever made such a claim; we undertook his ministry knowing that on teaching people a good way of living he'd quite possibly end up on the wrong side of powerful people. If anything that makes him a more interesting and sympathetic character than the one with the cosmic get out of jail free card that's been peddled by the church.
Agreed, Rhiannon, though the Catholic Church and the more mainstream Protestant Churches do seem to have put forward a rather uneasy alliance between the "Faith + Works" ideas.
Just picked up a copy of the Mabinogion. Apparently there's a story therein about dead men being thrown into a cauldron who come back to life the next day.....
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Only just been able to get to this thread, due to having no wi-fi access.... (which incidentally, is bliss at times, haha).
Thank you all for the replies, but I meant this thread really to be only for Christian members (see the first line of the OP). I was just sending out a message to fellow followers of Christ at a time of celebrating a very important event in our faith.
Mods, could you split this thread please. Put it on the faith sharing topic, if you must. Thanks.
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Agreed, Rhiannon, though the Catholic Church and the more mainstream Protestant Churches do seem to have put forward a rather uneasy alliance between the "Faith + Works" ideas.
Just picked up a copy of the Mabinogion. Apparently there's a story therein about dead men being thrown into a cauldron who come back to life the next day.....
Indeed, Dicky. Enjoy, the Mab's great.
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He is Raisin!
You is Plum!
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That's what the Faith Sharing sub-forum is for.
This isn't the Faith Sharing sub-forum - challenge and critique of beliefs is allowed.
So stop whining.
It is a Christian topic what has Islam to do with Christ or Christianity?
How about staying on topic. If you want to discuss Islam why not go to the appropriate section?
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Sassy, it was meant lightheartedly. You may consider it to be inappropriate but it was not intended to be offensive. However SP has asked for the thread to be split which is fair enough, then no-one can feel uncomfortable.
Ippy I am surprised by some of your post. There's no compulsion for you to respect my faith or anyone else's but surely you have some respect for us and our right to believe; likewise I respect your right not to believe or to believe in something else.
Bluehillside, I am the Plum! That is a fact and will be confirmed by many others.
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Bluehillside, I am the Plum! That is a fact and will be confirmed by many others.
Especially Little Jack Horner.
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Never be rude before sunset Len.
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Never be rude before sunset Len.
Oh dear me, another senior moment. Explain, please
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Sassy, it was meant lightheartedly. You may consider it to be inappropriate but it was not intended to be offensive. However SP has asked for the thread to be split which is fair enough, then no-one can feel uncomfortable.
Ippy I am surprised by some of your post. There's no compulsion for you to respect my faith or anyone else's but surely you have some respect for us and our right to believe; likewise I respect your right not to believe or to believe in something else.
Bluehillside, I am the Plum! That is a fact and will be confirmed by many others.
I have every respect for any individuals but that doesn't mean I have to respect ideas that I think are ridiculous and obviously man made fantasy.
Respect for the individual, yes.
Respect for most religious ideas, no.
I'm a Secular Humanist, people should have the right to believe whatever they like, perhaps have a look at the Secular site and see what secularism stands for instead of being misinformed, in other words straight from the horses mouth.
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion.
ippy
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I'm a Secular Humanist,
You've been brainwashed.
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..... for the wee band of Christians still remaining on this board.
Thank you, Yeshua for showing us the way out of the matrix of this world.
Have a wonderful day!
...... and fellow posters too!
Does that way out happen to include spending the rest of your life trying to convince your god not to burn you after you've died?
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Only just been able to get to this thread, due to having no wi-fi access.... (which incidentally, is bliss at times, haha).
Thank you all for the replies, but I meant this thread really to be only for Christian members (see the first line of the OP). I was just sending out a message to fellow followers of Christ at a time of celebrating a very important event in our faith.
Mods, could you split this thread please. Put it on the faith sharing topic, if you must. Thanks.
I'm wondering why my request has been ignored. But perhaps I have not been very clear.
Mods, could you split this thread please and put the first seven replies on the faith sharing topic, please; and perhaps the other half can be joined to Floo's 'Jesus died, not such a big deal' thread.
It seems absurd that a Christian cannot create a thread on the Christian Topic to send a message out to fellow Christians on the day of the most important event in their faith...... just one thread, without it being invaded by the 'other side'.
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Does that way out happen to include spending the rest of your life trying to convince your god not to burn you after you've died?
'My God' does not burn any of us after we die. That is a fallacy brought about by the RCC. Manmade doctrine.
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You've been brainwashed.
No I've never been subjected to any kind of torture, can't help you there Vlad.
ippy
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I think the Orthodox and, for example, the Armenian Apostolic Church, who were around quite a while before Catholics, taught the same SweetPea. I don't know if they still do. I do know the Catholic Church hasn't done so for a long time (I'm a liberal, some would say ''lapsed'', Catholic), though there will undoubtedly be some ultra-Traditional fringe groups who still believe that. Most Christians cannot reconcile that teaching with what we know of the character of Jesus.
(Speaking of brainwashing, and Humanism, not really relevant to this thread but hopefully it will be split, as SP requests: when I was 15-16 I was very interested in Humanism. To me, who was not sure what she believed in, it seemed a 'kind' alternative to any religion. Apart from the young male contingent, which interested me at least as much as the subject :D, there was a prominent local figure, an older lady, who was a well respected humanist. She was also active in the peace movement which sat well with me. Still alive as far as I know - Barbara Smoker. I think the organisation was called, ''The National Secular Society'').
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I think the Orthodox and, for example, the Armenian Apostolic Church, who were around quite a while before Catholics, taught the same SweetPea. I don't know if they still do. I do know the Catholic Church hasn't done so for a long time (I'm a liberal, some would say ''lapsed'', Catholic), though there will undoubtedly be some ultra-Traditional fringe groups who still believe that. Most Christians cannot reconcile that teaching with what we know of the character of Jesus.
(Speaking of brainwashing, and Humanism, not really relevant to this thread but hopefully it will be split, as SP requests: when I was 15-16 I was very interested in Humanism. To me, who was not sure what she believed in, it seemed a 'kind' alternative to any religion. Apart from the young male contingent, which interested me at least as much as the subject :D, there was a prominent local figure, an older lady, who was a well respected humanist. She was also active in the peace movement which sat well with me. Still alive as far as I know - Barbara Smoker. I think the organisation was called, ''The National Secular Society'').
Ms Brown, our Vlad was on the wind, he meant indoctrination and said brainwashed, brainwashing was last attempted in the early fifties it was found to be ineffective and doesn't really happen any more it involves torture where indoctrination only involves torture when the subject is boring. It's a very common misuse of a word.
ippy
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'My God' does not burn any of us after we die. That is a fallacy brought about by the RCC. Manmade doctrine.
I guess the vast majority of Christians would disagree with you on that but what is Christianity other than thousands of competing denominations, sects and cults.
What does your god do to us after we've died?
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Ms Brown, our Vlad was on the wind, he meant indoctrination and said brainwashed, brainwashing was last attempted in the early fifties it was found to be ineffective and doesn't really happen any more it involves torture where indoctrination only involves torture when the subject is boring. It's a very common misuse of a word.
ippy
Thanks ippy. 'Indoctrination' is a better fit.
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I guess the vast majority of Christians would disagree with you on that but what is Christianity other than thousands of competing denominations, sects and cults.
What does your god do to us after we've died?
Paradise or oblivion is what the vast majority of CHristians believe Khatru. Not eternal conscious punishment.
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I think the Orthodox and, for example, the Armenian Apostolic Church, who were around quite a while before Catholics, taught the same SweetPea.
Yes, I agree, Brownie. The problem is it is not Biblical doctrine. You only have to look to Revelations to find the true doctrine.
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Mods, can you please do something with this thread. Otherwise give me an explanation why you are not doing anything.
Thank you.
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Revelation is open to many interpretations SP and when the Bible was being put together, there were several apocalyptic writings. The one we have in our Bibles is the one chosen as being ''less dangerous'' than the others. It still needs to be read with great care though. When I was at school and Christian religious education was the norm, we didn't touch Revelation until or unless we were going to take RE at 'A' level.
I have read the book several times and no doubt see it differently to you.
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Just seen your most recent post and I back you on that, please split the thread Mods. Maybe a pm from you to admin would draw it to their attention.
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No I've never been subjected to any kind of torture,
We have. Your posts.
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Oh dear me, another senior moment. Explain, please
I'm too shy :-[.
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Yes, I agree, Brownie. The problem is it is not Biblical doctrine. You only have to look to Revelations to find the true doctrine.
Revelation is the true doctrine?
Well, it does say that we're judged by our works. None of this nonsense about judging you by your faith.
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Mods, can you please do something with this thread. Otherwise give me an explanation why you are not doing anything.
Thank you.
Moderator:
Certainly;
First you didn't report it much earlier, and I've just noted your request when browsing this thread, which is now several pages in, and secondly we don't split threads on demand: and in this case we're not prepared to.
1. If you want a faith-based discussion then you should have posted this in the Faith Sharing Area to start with, since by posting it on this Board members are free to respond (and I see looking back that this was noted much earlier in the thread).
2. Unless we are splitting a thread to remove 'problem posts' from view then it would be necessary to ensure that both the split-off post and the remaining posts in the source thread both constitute meaningful threads post-split, which requites that the earliest post being 'split' constitutes a decent OP. This is much harder when a thread is well advanced
3. That you'd prefer replies of a certain type is insufficient reason to remove from view numerous posts that other members have made in this thread in good faith.
4. When a thread has progressed through 3 or more pages and remains active then it does seem unfair to those members participating to interfere in it (unless there was a conduct problem).
The important point here is to report things as early as possible.
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Oakey, Doke. Thanks, Gordon, for the explanation.
I did note in reply #44 though that I've been unable to get to this thread due to no Wi-Fi access, i.e. I didn't just let the thread run.
Anyway, guess we'll have to leave it at that.
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We'll try to get back on track SP. I replied to your post where you mentioned Revelation (a couple of posts back), and someone else did too.
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..... for the wee band of Christians still remaining on this board.
Thank you, Yeshua for showing us the way out of the matrix of this world.
Have a wonderful day!
...... and fellow posters too!
Thank you SweetPea :) He is risen indeed, Hallelujah!
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Thanks ippy. 'Indoctrination' is a better fit.
Well it's not really just a better fit, brainwashed was the completely wrong word for the things Vlad was trying to describe, they are two completely different things.
ippy