Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on July 15, 2016, 06:26:21 AM
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Hi everyone,
The BBC site does not show the France attack (NICE) as a breaking news or as a headline. Somewhere down below they have a video of Hollande. Surprising (shocking)!
Is this part of the Brexit strategy?
Cheers.
Sriram
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Well...actually the site is now showing some news on the top. when I looked some minutes back it wasn't there! Sorry!
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Hi everyone,
The BBC site does not show the France attack (NICE) as a breaking news or as a headline. Somewhere down below they have a video of Hollande. Surprising (shocking)!
Is this part of the Brexit strategy?
Cheers.
Sriram
Has it as top story with live updates viewing it from UK. Only news story on 5live currently.
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Yeah...maybe its different in the international edition.
Cheers.
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I am planning a trip to London, Paris, other parts of Europe with family, in August. Wonder if its safe! :(
I suppose it should be ok! Could get killed on Indian roads any day!!!
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I am planning a trip to London, Paris, other parts of Europe with family, in August. Wonder if its safe! :(
I suppose it should be ok! Could get killed on Indian roads any day!!!
I would think so, Sriram.
It's a rare event.
I would probably worry how safe India is, if I heard something similar, but I think it's fine, it's just natural to be concerned.
Have a nice time :)
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Hi everyone,
The BBC site does not show the France attack (NICE) as a breaking news or as a headline. Somewhere down below they have a video of Hollande. Surprising (shocking)!
Is this part of the Brexit strategy?
Cheers.
Sriram
It was the first item on the BBC Radio 4 news at 6am!
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The fact that it happened at about 11pm local time yesterday (or about 10pm British Summer Time) suggests that it is no longer breaking news. Mind you, BBC Breakfast has found it difficult to deal with much else.
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I support the Beeb, I think they do a good job.
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I support the Beeb, I think they do a good job.
For a refreshing change, I agree with you. (I know you from another forum, where I'm 'sprocket'.)
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I would think so, Sriram.
It's a rare event.
I would probably worry how safe India is, if I heard something similar, but I think it's fine, it's just natural to be concerned.
Have a nice time :)
Thanks.
But the security/immigration counter may give trouble when we enter, I guess. 'Guys with strange names (and beards) take the red channel pls'. :-[
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Thanks.
But the security/immigration counter may give trouble when we enter, I guess. 'Guys with strange names (and beards) take the red channel pls'. :-[
That's right, Sri. They always delay the guys with funny names and beards - especially when they are on their way home from France and their football team has done far better in a small tounament out there than was expected!! ;) ;)
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You'll be fine Sririam, worry not. We have loads of people here with funny names and beards, even airport staff (for all you know I could have a funny name and a beard). I hope you enjoy yourself here and wherever else you go and it is very good to see you again after your break.
Steve I agree that the BBC are, on the whole, pretty good.
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For a refreshing change, I agree with you. (I know you from another forum, where I'm 'sprocket'.)
I did wonder, WELCOME to the madhouse. :D
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You'll be fine Sririam, worry not. We have loads of people here with funny names and beards, even airport staff (for all you know I could have a funny name and a beard). I hope you enjoy yourself here and wherever else you go and it is very good to see you again after your break.
Steve I agree that the BBC are, on the whole, pretty good.
Thanks Brownie. Somehow I didn't think it proper to intervene in all the mourning, post brexit. Seemed a tad insensitive. ;)
I also like BBC. Watch it regularly out here.
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It's good to see you, nice to post on threads other than politics too :D though we have been understandably preoccupied.
There's been another attack in France, a one man show. Once again Nice; a lorry drove into the crowds mowing down dozens of people (it was Bastille Day in France), it was eventually stopped and the driver opened fire on surrounding people. He was shot. Explosives were foundin the lorry. Terrible tragedy.
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I am planning a trip to London, Paris, other parts of Europe with family, in August. Wonder if its safe! :(
I suppose it should be ok! Could get killed on Indian roads any day!!!
Go for it Sriram you'll be OK, walking out of your front door is taking a risk, the terrible things that have happened haven't made life in general unbearable yet, I'm inclined to be cautious myself and I'm not letting it put me off of going to these places in Europe nor are any of my family.
Good on you you'll enjoy.
It's not so much the danger on our roads, it's more that if someone sneezes when they're driving on any of our motorways it causes a ten mile tailback in minutes, yes it does sound as though I'm exaggerating, I wish.
ippy
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Go for it Sriram you'll be OK, walking out of your front door is taking a risk, the terrible things that have happened haven't made life in general unbearable yet, I'm inclined to be cautious myself and I'm not letting it put me off of going to these places in Europe nor are any of my family.
Good on you you'll enjoy.
It's not so much the danger on our roads, it's more that if someone sneezes when they're driving on any of our motorways it causes a ten mile tailback in minutes, yes it does sound as though I'm exaggerating, I wish.
ippy
Thanks Ippy. :)
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It's good to see you, nice to post on threads other than politics too :D though we have been understandably preoccupied.
There's been another attack in France, a one man show. Once again Nice; a lorry drove into the crowds mowing down dozens of people (it was Bastille Day in France), it was eventually stopped and the driver opened fire on surrounding people. He was shot. Explosives were foundin the lorry. Terrible tragedy.
Its the same attack I was referring to I think! Not another one I hope!
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I don't know why but I thought there were two attacks. It appears there was one only. Small mercies.
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I did wonder, WELCOME to the madhouse. :D
Thanks! :-)
Re. The Beeb: the fact that everyone, left, right and centre, accuses the beeb of being biased against them strongly suggests that in general they are fair and dispassionate, and therefore piss everyone off equally.
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Thanks! :-)
Re. The Beeb: the fact that everyone, left, right and centre, accuses the beeb of being biased against them strongly suggests that in general they are fair and dispassionate, and therefore piss everyone off equally.
I think you are right.
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I think you are right.
Floo look very carefully at the BBC has loads of unchallenged religious programming going out on the radio and TV all the time, have a look and tell me the next time you see a non-religious person or programme that goes out without challenge.
I haven't got a problem with the religious programming the BBC puts out, it's just that I would like to see or hear a programme about non-religious beliefs on the BBC that goes out unchallenged, say for an hour a month and be set for broadcast at a similar time that a similar unchallenged religious programme would normally go out on air.
And what could be more of a BBC bias than "Thought for the Day" on the radio's "Today" programme six days a week, the non-religious are not allowed to appear on "Thought for the Day", they are banned from appearing, an outright ban; and the BBC isn't biased?
In the later part of last year the BBC did a series of programmes about Freethinking; it went out at eleven PM, wait for it --------on BBC Radio three, had it not been for the BBC's constant record of consistently sidelining any non-religious output, had this just by chance as say a one off well yes you could look at this and think it must happen from time to time with the BBC's busy schedules, unfortunately where non-religious content is concerned on the BBC I wish it were a one off.
ippy
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Floo look very carefully at the BBC has loads of unchallenged religious programming going out on the radio and TV all the time, have a look and tell me the next time you see a non-religious person or programme that goes out without challenge.
I haven't got a problem with the religious programming the BBC puts out, it's just that I would like to see or hear a programme about non-religious beliefs on the BBC that goes out unchallenged, say for an hour a month and be set for broadcast at a similar time that a similar unchallenged religious programme would normally go out on air.
And what could be more of a BBC bias than "Thought for the Day" on the radio's "Today" programme six days a week, the non-religious are not allowed to appear on "Thought for the Day", they are banned from appearing, an outright ban; and the BBC isn't biased?
In the later part of last year the BBC did a series of programmes about Freethinking; it went out at eleven PM, wait for it --------on BBC Radio three, had it not been for the BBC's constant record of consistently sidelining any non-religious output, had this just by chance as say a one off well yes you could look at this and think it must happen from time to time with the BBC's busy schedules, unfortunately where non-religious content is concerned on the BBC I wish it were a one off.
ippy
But doesn't hard arsed atheism want to remain ''fringe''. After all would non believers want to be identified as establishment intellectual experts since that is not flavour of the month in this country.
I think H arsed atheists like being some faux oppressed minority.
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The fact that religious broadcasting is not highly publicised and often goes on air at odd times shows how unpopular it is. I don't know anyone who watches or listens to it and I watch and listen to a lot of stuff, and am constantly going through the 'Guide' to see what's on.
There's a Freeview channel called TBN which broadcasts preachers from the USA, that seems to be on when most people are asleep. I'm only aware of it because I often get up in the night and flick through to see what's on, anyway that's not the Beeb,
Strange how opinions change: only a few years ago Christians on forums were complaining about the BBC's anti-Christian bias in many areas! Post after post was complaining about that, floo may remember. I never saw the bias and don't see the opposite now, 'Songs of Praise' may be a bit naff (if it's still going), but I always thought it was so nothing new there.
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The fact that religious broadcasting is not highly publicised and often goes on air at odd times shows how unpopular it is. I don't know anyone who watches or listens to it and I watch and listen to a lot of stuff, and am constantly going through the 'Guide' to see what's on.
There's a Freeview channel called TBN which broadcasts preachers from the USA, that seems to be on when most people are asleep. I'm only aware of it because I often get up in the night and flick through to see what's on, anyway that's not the Beeb,
Strange how opinions change: only a few years ago Christians on forums were complaining about the BBC's anti-Christian bias in many areas! Post after post was complaining about that, floo may remember. I never saw the bias and don't see the opposite now, 'Songs of Praise' may be a bit naff (if it's still going), but I always thought it was so nothing new there.
Brownie, how do you account for the ban by the BBC of non-religious voices on "Thought for the Day"?
ippy
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I don't, I didn't know about it and haven't listened to "Thought for the day" for years. If that is the case, I think it is wrong. I didn't know it was always some sort of religious thought anyway. Was it not briefly on TV late at night at one time or was that something else?
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It seems that this ... err .... debate has been going for some time. TFTD has its own Wikipedia entry which states that in 2002 following a letter signed by 102 people from the National Secular Society, British Humanist Society and Rational Press Association, Richard Dawkins (no less) was allowed two and a half minutes to deliver an atheist message - though not in the TFTD slot.
The BBC consider that TFTD provides a unique faith-based contribution in the middle of an essentially secular 3 hour long news programme.
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You don't need non religious voices on programmes that specifically come at something from a "religious" POV of various faiths.
There are plenty of programmes on politics to science that put the non religious POV.
And other thoughts.
A programme like TFTD just caters for the religious POV.
It's like campaigning to have non religious songs on Songs of Praise. ::)
TFTD should change its name to " Religious thought for the day"
It would stop the NSS and the rest from sulking because they feel they have missed something.
::)
The remit of the programme is religious TFTD.
Some programmes cater for a minority group, TFTD is one.
It wouldn't be the same if any old Tom, Dick or Harry was on it :P
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I don't, I didn't know about it and haven't listened to "Thought for the day" for years. If that is the case, I think it is wrong. I didn't know it was always some sort of religious thought anyway. Was it not briefly on TV late at night at one time or was that something else?
Brownie, T4TD is a small part of BBC's radio 4 programme "Today" six days a week, ask the BBC why they refuse to have any non-religious contributions on T4TD, the answer starts with: It's an opertunity; see if you can manage to get your head around this explaination, talk about twisted logic.
ippy
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Oh well it does seem a bit twisted I suppose but I would have to listen to it first. Rose says it caters for a religious point of view for a few minutes in the midst of secular programmes. Does it only 'do' Christianity or other religious view points catered for. It's many years ago but I have a recollection of a JW speaking once. It was very quick though.
I'll have a look in the paper and see when it's on.
Later: googled it. It's on during the midnight news (I seem to remember it being on earlier than that that was years ago), so will have a minority audience. I might give it a listen, if I remember. All religions can contribute, not a specifically Christian programme.
The Moral Maze looks quite good!
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Does it only 'do' Christianity or other religious view points catered for.
Over the years there have been a number of non-Christian contributors (though I cannot recall a JW) including Rabbi Lionel Blue and Indarjit Singh who were both very popular.
Later: googled it. It's on during the midnight news.
It's on at about 7,50am during the Today programme.
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Oh well it does seem a bit twisted I suppose but I would have to listen to it first. Rose says it caters for a religious point of view for a few minutes in the midst of secular programmes. Does it only 'do' Christianity or other religious view points catered for. It's many years ago but I have a recollection of a JW speaking once. It was very quick though.
I'll have a look in the paper and see when it's on.
Later: googled it. It's on during the midnight news (I seem to remember it being on earlier than that that was years ago), so will have a minority audience. I might give it a listen, if I remember. All religions can contribute, not a specifically Christian programme.
The Moral Maze looks quite good!
Any religion can be and are reflected on T4TD the point I was making about the difference between how religious and the non-religious people are represented by the BBC is very clever and it's so easily mised.
Seriously Brownie just take note of the religious programmes on the BBC where the religion goes on air without a challenge of any kind and then take note of the programmes that include various non-religious people, that go out to air unchallenged.
By the way I have no problem with unchallenged religious programming, allthough naturaly I don't listen or watch any of it.
ippy
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7.50 on the Today programme, thanks HH. Used to hear a lot more from Rabbi Lionel Blue, I really liked him and have read a couple of his books. Love Indarjit Singh. Yes there was a JW chap, fairly young, talking about what his faith meant to me. No proselytation but T42day is not a platform for that.
I'll try to remember to tune in at that time.Ippy, if someone has a short slot to talk about something important to them, I wouldn't challenge them.
If it is a debate, I would, but that's quite different. I accept that we all believe different things - at different times too, that includes you and me. Unless someone is broadcasting hate or obsenity, or advocating violence, it isn't my business what they say.
Back in the day when I did hear Thought for Today my opinion was that it was not unpleasant, gentle, fairly innocuous, sometimes interesting but, most of all, quite brief. It may have changed, when i've heard it a couple of times I will give you an up-to-date opinion.
Certainly I see no reason why Secular Humanists cannot speak on the programme. I would very much love to hear a Ba'hai.
The important thing for all the contributors, religious or not, is not to use the programme to do down any other belief system. There are plenty of discussion programmes for that on TV and radio. However I doubt anyone would do that on 'Thought".
Anyway thanks for reminding me of this small programme, I look forward to hearing it and think I will enjoy it.
Just thought: How did the move go?
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I listened to three episodes of 'Thought for Today' last night before retiring, and will listen to more. It was so much easier to find them on Radio 4's site than to make an appointment to listen to them when they go outon air, I'd be bound to forget. I heard : Akhandadi Das (? sp), Rev Giles Fraser and Rev Michael Banner (the latter was talking about prisons which particularly interests me). I hope I've remembered their names correctly. Very very interesting. Now what is the problem? The fact that they are all people of religion?
Nothing to stop humanists writing to the BBC and asking if they can join or even have a 'Thought for Today' for themselves. I'm happy with the one that i;, from what I heard, what is said is just as relevant to people of no faith.
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I listened to three episodes of 'Thought for Today' last night before retiring, and will listen to more. It was so much easier to find them on Radio 4's site than to make an appointment to listen to them when they go outon air, I'd be bound to forget. I heard : Akhandadi Das (? sp), Rev Giles Fraser and Rev Michael Banner (the latter was talking about prisons which particularly interests me). I hope I've remembered their names correctly. Very very interesting. Now what is the problem? The fact that they are all people of religion?
Nothing to stop humanists writing to the BBC and asking if they can join or even have a 'Thought for Today' for themselves. I'm happy with the one that i;, from what I heard, what is said is just as relevant to people of no faith.
I can quite understand the desire of non-faith organisations to join the roster of presenters for Thought for the Day and I don't think that this little slot would suffer. The majority of presenters make no attempt to proselytise nor engage in polemics - merely present a point of view influenced by their philosophy.
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I agree HH. It's up to them to campaign for it. On the other hand, the BBC is largely secular, indeed many people of faith object to the anti-faith bias of the BBC (I've never noticed it nor has it bothered me but I've heard it said often), so why bother? Well, that's up to them I suppose, they see it differently.
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7.50 on the Today programme, thanks HH. Used to hear a lot more from Rabbi Lionel Blue, I really liked him and have read a couple of his books. Love Indarjit Singh. Yes there was a JW chap, fairly young, talking about what his faith meant to me. No proselytation but T42day is not a platform for that.
I'll try to remember to tune in at that time.Ippy, if someone has a short slot to talk about something important to them, I wouldn't challenge them.
If it is a debate, I would, but that's quite different. I accept that we all believe different things - at different times too, that includes you and me. Unless someone is broadcasting hate or obsenity, or advocating violence, it isn't my business what they say.
Back in the day when I did hear Thought for Today my opinion was that it was not unpleasant, gentle, fairly innocuous, sometimes interesting but, most of all, quite brief. It may have changed, when i've heard it a couple of times I will give you an up-to-date opinion.
Certainly I see no reason why Secular Humanists cannot speak on the programme. I would very much love to hear a Ba'hai.
The important thing for all the contributors, religious or not, is not to use the programme to do down any other belief system. There are plenty of discussion programmes for that on TV and radio. However I doubt anyone would do that on 'Thought".
Anyway thanks for reminding me of this small programme, I look forward to hearing it and think I will enjoy it.
Just thought: How did the move go?
Brownie, have a listen to the BBC radio or TV any channel/station and make a note of when you hear an unchallenged non-religious voice of any kind, it'll be a long job, it won't take too many of your fingers when counting, if any, why?
Sometimes it seems to be an unchallenged non-religious voice and then you realise, of course there's a voiceover and stil no unchallenged non-religious voice again, as usual.
ippy
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Maybe the discussion isn't one to be challenged, for example if there was a street riot and vandalism and a person of religion commented on it, talking about lack of values, disenchanted youth, umemployment, uncaring parents, the fact that the speaker is a religionist is irrelevant. Anyone could say those things.
However I will make a note when I come across anything that gives a specifically religious viewpoint with no opportunity for anyone else to contradict, then we can ask why.
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Maybe the discussion isn't one to be challenged, for example if there was a street riot and vandalism and a person of religion commented on it, talking about lack of values, disenchanted youth, umemployment, uncaring parents, the fact that the speaker is a religionist is irrelevant. Anyone could say those things.
However I will make a note when I come across anything that gives a specifically religious viewpoint with no opportunity for anyone else to contradict, then we can ask why.
If it happened that the NON-religious missed out now and again and happend to be challenged from time to time; I really wouldn't bother to make a comment, how ever it does make one think when NON-religious people on BBC radio and tv, are NOT able to make any unchallenged comments, it is quite reasonable to wonder why?
I'm not awaiting your comments on this subject, I'm pointing out to you how it is, if you like to think I'm talking out of my hat, that's up to you; do have a look or listen for yourself and I dare say you will find there are in fact no broadcasts anywhere on the BBC where a NON-religious person is able to speak out freely in the same way any religious person want's to do and is able to do so at more or less any time they like.
Again I am a secularist and would never want to restrict the freedom of religion or the freedom from religion, so, I don't listen to religious broadcasting and at the same time don't want to stop it being broadcast.
You seem to have misunderstood my previous mailing, that's why this lot.
ippy
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I do get it ippy. My problem is I am a bit vague when watching TV and listening to the radio, I miss loads. Sometimes I'll watch something with concentration for three quarters of the time it is on and then zone out for the last quarter. I've always been like that I'm afraid, much prefer the written word. Occasionally I watch things again to pick up on what I missed first time around.
I did like the T42day clips that I listened to last night but they were short and to the point.
Being as most non-drama programmes are not religious and do not have people of religion in them, and there are plenty of questions, challenges and arguments, I don't really see what you are getting at but I'll make an effort.
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7.50 on the Today programme, thanks HH. Used to hear a lot more from Rabbi Lionel Blue, I really liked him and have read a couple of his books.
Towards the end, he became a bit of a parody of himself. He was definitely past his sell-by date. However, he will always be better than Jonathan Sacks.
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I do get it ippy. My problem is I am a bit vague when watching TV and listening to the radio, I miss loads. Sometimes I'll watch something with concentration for three quarters of the time it is on and then zone out for the last quarter. I've always been like that I'm afraid, much prefer the written word. Occasionally I watch things again to pick up on what I missed first time around.
I did like the T42day clips that I listened to last night but they were short and to the point.
Being as most non-drama programmes are not religious and do not have people of religion in them, and there are plenty of questions, challenges and arguments, I don't really see what you are getting at but I'll makee an effort.
Brownie, how about the NON-religious rarely get to represent our views anywhere on the BBC without an ever present chaperone, unlike the way the religious are able to present more or less freely and unchallenged programmes about their beliefs, almost at will.
I suspect you would notice very quickly if the BBC were to present their programming visa versa to the above.
ippy
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Brownie, how about the NON-religious rarely get to represent our views anywhere on the BBC without an ever present chaperone,
Have you ever listened to The Infinite Monkey Cage? Sometimes they have religious people on, but not usually and religion gets short shrift when it comes up.
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I do get it ippy. My problem is I am a bit vague when watching TV and listening to the radio, I miss loads. Sometimes I'll watch something with concentration for three quarters of the time it is on and then zone out for the last quarter. I've always been like that I'm afraid, much prefer the written word. Occasionally I watch things again to pick up on what I missed first time around.
I did like the T42day clips that I listened to last night but they were short and to the point.
Being as most non-drama programmes are not religious and do not have people of religion in them, and there are plenty of questions, challenges and arguments, I don't really see what you are getting at but I'll make an effort.
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You've quoted my last post ippy and it certainly does look as though I contradicted myself, sorry. I hear what you are saying but haven't seen programmes with secular people presenting their views, chaparoned. That's something I don't understand but probably would if I saw it for myself and compared it to a similar programme featuring a religious speaker. However I don't like sanitised religious programmes so never watch them. It would take a great effort on my part to tune in to something like that, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is 'Songs of Praise' and I've not seen that for years. Watching or listening to a debate is something that would capture my interest but that isn't what you are talking about. So - we are in status quo (which may be better than being in dire straits...).
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Brownie, how about the NON-religious rarely get to represent our views anywhere on the BBC without an ever present chaperone, unlike the way the religious are able to present more or less freely and unchallenged programmes about their beliefs, almost at will.
I suspect you would notice very quickly if the BBC were to present their programming visa versa to the above.
ippy
Not sure that I would, ippy; after all, I don't recall the likes of David Attenborugh and Brian Cox being 'chaperoned'; if anything, it's the religious folk who seem to 'suffer' from this behaviour. Mind you, if one is going to have a decent debate, then one needs a chair or co-ordinator to 'chaperone' the debate.
Perhaps you're watching a different BBC to most of us - the Basildon Broadcasting Corporation, perhaps? ;)
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Not sure that I would, ippy; after all, I don't recall the likes of David Attenborugh and Brian Cox being 'chaperoned'; if anything, it's the religious folk who seem to 'suffer' from this behaviour. Mind you, if one is going to have a decent debate, then one needs a chair or co-ordinator to 'chaperone' the debate.
Perhaps you're watching a different BBC to most of us - the Basildon Broadcasting Corporation, perhaps? ;)
Nothing surprising there Hope, just about what I would have expected from yourself.
ippy.
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I read Hope's post earlier today and was quite relieved in a way because I had begun to think I might be the only person on the planet who did not notice the sort of bias you talked about, also the only one not to know what current programmes are. I spent ages scouring the TV guide.
No doubt you think Hope has a bias too, opposite to yours, but you cannot think I do so I have concluded that, if there are such programmes on BBC, they are so few and far between as to be hardly noticed.
(The marvellous David Attenborough and Brian Cox programmes are not things I would have put in the same category, never seen any bias in those and are enjoyed by all I would have thought.)
The BBC is pretty good on the whole. Steve said much the same earlier in the thread, also something of the ilk that it when it pisses people off, it does so equally and I'd agree with that. Quite honestly I've heard more Christians over the years moan about the Beeb than any other group (& I don't know why).
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I read Hope's post earlier today and was quite relieved in a way because I had begun to think I might be the only person on the planet who did not notice the sort of bias you talked about, also the only one not to know what current programmes are. I spent ages scouring the TV guide.
No doubt you think Hope has a bias too, opposite to yours, but you cannot think I do so I have concluded that, if there are such programmes on BBC, they are so few and far between as to be hardly noticed.
(The marvellous David Attenborough and Brian Cox programmes are not things I would have put in the same category, never seen any bias in those and are enjoyed by all I would have thought.)
The BBC is pretty good on the whole. Steve said much the same earlier in the thread, also something of the ilk that it when it pisses people off, it does so equally and I'd agree with that. Quite honestly I've heard more Christians over the years moan about the Beeb than any other group (& I don't know why).
It looks as though you have found a BBC programme where the NON-religious go unchallenged then; could you let me know which programme it was on and was it TV, or was it on the radio?
I've asked you the above because I've never seen anything that would be the NON-religious equivalent of, just for example, "An Island Parish", which is unadulterated religious propaganda.
Where is there anywhere on the BBC's coverage a programme especially set up for the now over 50% of Non-religious viewers and listeners? Perhaps a programme about Humanism?
Humanists and other Non-religious people as things are with the BBC, are seen and heard at present but, not without challenge, we are not seen and heard in the same way religious programmes are, where they are given free reign almost anywhere and whenever and without challenge.
Don't misread me I may not have any kind of high regard for the BBC's religious broadcasting attempts but there is no way I would want to prevent religious people having equal space on air.
ippy
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It looks as though you have found a BBC programme where the NON-religious go unchallenged then; could you let me know which programme it was on and was it TV, or was it on the radio?
I've asked you the above because I've never seen anything that would be the NON-religious equivalent of, just for example, "An Island Parish", which is unadulterated religious propaganda.
Where is there anywhere on the BBC's coverage a programme especially set up for the now over 50% of Non-religious viewers and listeners? Perhaps a programme about Humanism?
Humanists and other Non-religious people as things are with the BBC, are seen and heard at present but, not without challenge, we are not seen and heard in the same way religious programmes are, where they are given free reign almost anywhere and whenever and without challenge.
Don't misread me I may not have any kind of high regard for the BBC's religious broadcasting attempts but there is no way I would want to prevent religious people having equal space on air.
ippy
No I haven't ippy, certainly not one where people of no religion actually say, "I do not follow any religion but here are my thoughts based on my philosophy".
Nothing to stop it happening, you could campaign for it and contact organisations such as the BHA for possible speakers. No-one would object, this is a free country and we are living in times where there is room for all. Might be quite interesting.
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No I haven't ippy, certainly not one where people of no religion actually say, "I do not follow any religion but here are my thoughts based on my philosophy".
Nothing to stop it happening, you could campaign for it and contact organisations such as the BHA for possible speakers. No-one would object, this is a free country and we are living in times where there is room for all. Might be quite interesting.
I have been for years and you wouldn't believe me if I was to tell you how duplicitous the BBC is in dealing with any complaints of this nature.
ippy
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Well I am going to write to the BBC, ippy, not with a complaint but a suggestion. No-one usually takes much notice of me :) anytime, anywhere, but if enough wrote with the same suggestion, they might take notice.
I do feel all opinions should be represented, however the 'religious' stuff is far less popular than it was and declining rapidly so the Beeb may feel it's not worth the effort to put on something similar but without the relig. I don't feel that way and think it would be of interest to many, especially if the speaker was pretty good. We'll see.
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Well I am going to write to the BBC, ippy, not with a complaint but a suggestion. No-one usually takes much notice of me :) anytime, anywhere, but if enough wrote with the same suggestion, they might take notice.
I do feel all opinions should be represented, however the 'religious' stuff is far less popular than it was and declining rapidly so the Beeb may feel it's not worth the effort to put on something similar but without the relig. I don't feel that way and think it would be of interest to many, especially if the speaker was pretty good. We'll see.
Making a complaint or a suggestion in this area makes little difference to the BBC, however if you were to write to them with your suggestions, you'll be surprised by them, if you persist you'll, no doubt, find out how it feels to to run in relentlessly thickening treacle.
ippy
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The Today programme has one four minute slot in which a religious person says something.
It has three four minute slots devoted to sport and yet you never hear non sports fans complaining that there are no non sport slots.
Just a thought.
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The Today programme has one four minute slot in which a religious person says something.
It has three four minute slots devoted to sport and yet you never hear non sports fans complaining that there are no non sport slots.
Just a thought.
Well, exactly, what about us non-skiers? I keep going on at the BBC about neglecting non-skiing, which is a well-known hobby. Why do I pay my license fee?
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Making a complaint or a suggestion in this area makes little difference to the BBC, however if you were to write to them with your suggestions, you'll be surprised by them, if you persist you'll, no doubt, find out how it feels to to run in relentlessly thickening treacle.
ippy
I wouldn't be in the least surprised. Some years ago I made a complaint to the BBC about something that happened in a drama, before the watershed. Apparently nearly 400 people felt the same way and wrote in. All we got was a standard reply full of platitudes.
Still it's worth a go.
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Well, exactly, what about us non-skiers? I keep going on at the BBC about neglecting non-skiing, which is a well-known hobby. Why do I pay my license fee?
Some might like to hear about humanism or perhaps how secularism could help.
The French national TV has one hour a month alotted to non-religious beliefs, I'd settle for that.
Or say a programme about living an ethical and moral life without the need to have a religious belief, anything like this could be an eye opener and possibly comfort for all sorts of people in knowing for they're not the only ones that have and live similar life styles and hadn't realised how many there are of us that share these non-religious outlooks.
ippy
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Some might like to hear about humanism or perhaps how secularism could help.
The French national TV has one hour a month alotted to non-religious beliefs, I'd settle for that.
Or say a programme about living an ethical and moral life without the need to have a religious belief, anything like this could be an eye opener and possibly comfort for all sorts of people in knowing for they're not the only ones that have and live similar life styles and hadn't realised how many there are of us that share these non-religious outlooks.
ippy
I have no problem with programmes about humanism or secularism. The thing that is non sensical is having programmes about <<not-the-subject>> just because you have a programme about <<subject>>.
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I get what you mean jp but think what ippy (& others) would like, is a programme where, eg, humanists, speak positively about their philosophy and ethics, not as a contrast to any other philosophy/belief but as a legitimate view in its own right. A humanist speaker would not say, "I don't believe in (this or that)", but "My belief is....".
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"My belief is ..." and the rest of the programme would be either be blank or a rant against Muslims or other people with "literalist" beliefs.
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If so, that would be wrong. Not what I had in mind, nor Ippy from what he has said.
The few religious programmes that exist on the BBC don't rile against those of no religious belief, do they? I don't watch them so don't know.
It was just an idea Udayana. A debate was not what I was thinking of, that takes two with opposing views - or more, like on this forum.
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That's basically the problem. I don't believe in "god" but after that there's not much to say on the subject apart from attacking other peoples beliefs. At least the religious have some beliefs or ideas to push.
There are plenty of programmes on nature, science, ethics, politics, philosophy, morality and so on. No religious/anti-religious views required to participate.
I think that's also why TftD doesn't invite non-religious speakers. The rest of the programme covers everything from a non-religious stance, so the BBC religion dept. doesn't want to give up its 2-3 minutes for something non-religious.
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You have a point Udayana. It's difficult for me to judge; I'm a Christian and am happy that there is the odd religious programme, as long as the speakers aren't dissing other faiths or people of no faith, like the T42D. I just want to be fair really. We don't know how such a programme would pan out unless there is one, it would be worth a try I'd have thought - but the BBC may well decide, if they haven't already, that it isn't.
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You have a point Udayana. It's difficult for me to judge; I'm a Christian and am happy that there is the odd religious programme, as long as the speakers aren't dissing other faiths or people of no faith, like the T42D. I just want to be fair really. We don't know how such a programme would pan out unless there is one, it would be worth a try I'd have thought - but the BBC may well decide, if they haven't already, that it isn't.
Well, there's already "A Point of View", broadcast at 8:50 a.m on Sundays, and repeated at least one other time. This slot consists of short essays by a very wide variety of writers, religious and non-religious (probably more non-religious). Since it's a slightly longer slot than T42D, the speakers have the opportunity to say something with a bit of cogency and bite.
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I have no problem with programmes about humanism or secularism. The thing that is non sensical is having programmes about <<not-the-subject>> just because you have a programme about <<subject>>.
If that had been advocated I would have to agree with you J P.
ippy
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Well, there's already "A Point of View", broadcast at 8:50 a.m on Sundays, and repeated at least one other time. This slot consists of short essays by a very wide variety of writers, religious and non-religious (probably more non-religious). Since it's a slightly longer slot than T42D, the speakers have the opportunity to say something with a bit of cogency and bite.
Ippy see the above from Dicky.
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I get what you mean jp but think what ippy (& others) would like, is a programme where, eg, humanists, speak positively about their philosophy and ethics, not as a contrast to any other philosophy/belief but as a legitimate view in its own right. A humanist speaker would not say, "I don't believe in (this or that)", but "My belief is....".
And as the first sentence of my last post stated, I have no problem with such a programme.
O
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Nor me. Seems there is one already, 'A Point of View'; I'll look out for it.
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Nor me. Seems there is one already, 'A Point of View'; I'll look out for it.
Radio 4
Friday evening - 20.50, repeated on Sunday morning at 08.50.
It occupies the slots of - and replaces - Alistair Cooke's Letter From America.
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Thanks HH.
Looks interesting, I can hear a few over the next couple of days.
Ippy, take a look at this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qng8/episodes/player
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I usually listen to A Point of View after Any Questions. They vary lot .. Lisa Jardine's were always great. Will Self can be good sometimes, other times is droning on about some pointless nonsense :)
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I find Choral Evensong a perpetual irritant. It's always popping up in the afternoon on R3 and I'm forced to switch to a different channel.
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I recommend Not-Chess, which is usually on Sunday evening, can't remember the channel. Basically, a few people gather together to not play chess, and discuss no chess problems. You would be surprised how much controversy this can generate, I remember one chap getting quite heated about his dahlias. There you are, if you don't want to play chess, this is the programme for you.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07dknm1
Self's search for meaning.
Have to admit that I only found this after switching over to avoid Choral Evensong :)
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Ippy see the above from Dicky.
I will have a look Brownie or listen but knowing the ingenuity of the BBC I'm sure there's some way they have managed to get their sticky fingers in there somehow they are so subtle and I have to hand it to them they're so clever with it; years of practice I suppose.
This moving house business is doing me in, I'll get back when I can stop falling asleep when I get an opportunity to sit down, 50 empty collapsed cardboard boxes going back to the removals co tomorrow, building shelves after that, reset my Hi Fi system, rearrange badly designed fitted wardrobes in bedroom, mow the 130 m lawn again after the rain, bathroom rehash going on, new CH boiler, look for rejuvenating pills at Boots.
ippy