Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: jeremyp on August 08, 2016, 08:43:03 PM
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On the passport thread, I was challenged by two people about how I would fix the EU if we stay in instead of running away like craven cowards (NB running away is still not a foregone conclusion). I said I wouldn't discuss it on that thread but if they started a thread about the subject I would contribute. Neither of the people who challenged me on the passport thread have got around to starting the new thread yet, so I thought I would do so.
I think we need some ground rules though. This is a thread about how to fix the problems of the EU, it's not a thread for throwing mud at the EU. By all means, identify faults, but then say how you will fix them.
And we'll take it as read that one possible means of "fixing" the EU is to dismantle it, but if you want to talk about that, please make sure you say how you will mitigate the chaos this will cause.
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Not exactly sure how thgis could or should be done, but I'd suggest perhaps the most important thing is getting annual accounts properly signed off.
I would involve a lot more scrutiny of expenditure, but why isn't it do-able?
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The first thing that needs to be done is to decouple the EU from the Euro. New members o the EU should not be made to join it, in fact, I think we'd find that no new member will ever join the Euro and nor will any existing members who are not in the Euro.
Then we need to clarify and simplify the power structure of the EU. There should be a policy board consisting of the heads of government of the member countries (or their delegates). There should be an executive responsible for turning the policy decisions into directives and the EU parliament should vote positively on the directives before they can be made into law.
The structure is actually very similar to what exists now but very few people really understand the relationships between all the councils and commissions etc.
The president of the executive should be elected by popular vote at the same time as the EU parliament. The nationality of successive presidents cannot be the same.
The EU accounts need to be sorted out. Any expenditure must be transparently accounted or will cease.
The EU parliament will have a single permanent home. There will be no expensive upping of sticks and moving to Strasbourg, unless the Parliament's permanent home is determined to be in Strasbourg.
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Not exactly sure how thgis could or should be done, but I'd suggest perhaps the most important thing is getting annual accounts properly signed off.
I would involve a lot more scrutiny of expenditure, but why isn't it do-able?
Our posts crossed, but yes, the accounts are in a criminal state (almost literally).
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The first thing that needs to be done is to decouple the EU from the Euro. New members o the EU should not be made to join it, in fact, I think we'd find that no new member will ever join the Euro and nor will any existing members who are not in the Euro.
Then we need to clarify and simplify the power structure of the EU. There should be a policy board consisting of the heads of government of the member countries (or their delegates). There should be an executive responsible for turning the policy decisions into directives and the EU parliament should vote positively on the directives before they can be made into law.
The structure is actually very similar to what exists now but very few people really understand the relationships between all the councils and commissions etc.
The president of the executive should be elected by popular vote at the same time as the EU parliament. The nationality of successive presidents cannot be the same.
The EU accounts need to be sorted out. Any expenditure must be transparently accounted or will cease.
The EU parliament will have a single permanent home. There will be no expensive upping of sticks and moving to Strasbourg, unless the Parliament's permanent home is determined to be in Strasbourg.
Window dressing.
You have left out how you would convince those in power now to give up their power, and that the people running the EU are the bankers, corporations and the lobbyists. They won't ever give up the power base they have. Basically what you are up against is wonton human nature. They will fight to the bitter end and the whole affair will come crashing down as the USSR did and how WWII got out of control - massive polarization.
That is the problem with the Left and politics they think they can control things, even human nature and hubris, but find that their rationality and great utopian plans leads them to total irrationality and chaos.
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The first thing that needs to be done is to decouple the EU from the Euro. New members o the EU should not be made to join it, in fact, I think we'd find that no new member will ever join the Euro and nor will any existing members who are not in the Euro.
I agree, but even more important, it needs to be cast in stone, that EURO members follow the rules!
If you don't like the rules, don't join the EURO!
Then we need to clarify and simplify the power structure of the EU. There should be a policy board consisting of the heads of government of the member countries (or their delegates). There should be an executive responsible for turning the policy decisions into directives and the EU parliament should vote positively on the directives before they can be made into law.
I agree - and it should all be transparent.
The structure is actually very similar to what exists now but very few people really understand the relationships between all the councils and commissions etc.
The president of the executive should be elected by popular vote at the same time as the EU parliament. The nationality of successive presidents cannot be the same.
It's the same old problem - bureaucracy hates scrutiny - but like it or not, we need a certain amount of bureaucracy - so if the system is to work, the bureaucrats need to be totally open with us - and be aware that they are the servants.
The EU accounts need to be sorted out. Any expenditure must be transparently accounted or will cease.
Strangely, some of the things that the Brexitors complained of actually require giving slightly more power to the EU to fix.
The EU parliament will have a single permanent home. There will be no expensive upping of sticks and moving to Strasbourg, unless the Parliament's permanent home is determined to be in Strasbourg.
Those arrangements do look a bit silly today, and are very difficult to justify on any basis.
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I agree, but even more important, it needs to be cast in stone, that EURO members follow the rules!
If you don't like the rules, don't join the EURO!
The problem is that no-ne has followed the rules since the Euro was first thought of. When it was first due to be introduced, they realised that only 3 EC members would actually pass the economic requirements, and 2 of those weren't even planning to join the Euro.
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Window dressing.
You have left out how you would convince those in power now to give up their power, and that the people running the EU are the bankers, corporations and the lobbyists. They won't ever give up the power base they have. Basically what you are up against is wonton human nature. They will fight to the bitter end and the whole affair will come crashing down as the USSR did and how WWII got out of control - massive polarization.
That is the problem with the Left and politics they think they can control things, even human nature and hubris, but find that their rationality and great utopian plans leads them to total irrationality and chaos.
In the OP I asked you to refrain from mere mud slinging.
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The problem is that no-ne has followed the rules since the Euro was first thought of. When it was first due to be introduced, they realised that only 3 EC members would actually pass the economic requirements, and 2 of those weren't even planning to join the Euro.
Agreed, in the rush of enthusiasm to get the project off the ground there was a lot of 'fudging' but Greece was an extreme case even by those lax standards. I would say that if the EURO is going to have a future, the ECB needs to have greater powers to control the economies of Eurozone countries - and that probably won't be popular.
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In the OP I asked you to refrain from mere mud slinging.
What mud slinging? What I said are the facts and poignant points.
There's no point in having a plan if you have no idea of the reality on the ground, that's an idiots agenda.