Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: NicholasMarks on September 25, 2016, 04:23:16 PM
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Matthew 1-1:25 details the pedigree of Jesus Christ. He is of the highest stock…In his family linage is Abraham…remember him…he is the father of the Jewish nation…also David, who was the first king of Israel. With a line of descent like that Jesus was certainly going to be very special…especially as all 3 of them had direct help from Almighty God.
The Jews don’t accept Jesus but that is because the Rabbis and the high priests had forged a good social status among God’s people and no distant relative of their own authority was going to upset the apple-cart.
What Jesus did, in fact, is show us that all governing bodies can have elements of the same cancerous attitude. That regardless of what the image of the group, as presented, is, there are, among their number, hard-core, self-seekers, organising their own self-interest and pushing the voice of the whole group to follow their own cancerous policies.
Not until the general population gets wise to these tactics will there ever be any improvement and if we follow cancerous behaviour we will finish up a cancerous society...and we should know what that means.
Almighty God has given us a period to see where a cancerous society leads to. It leads to where we...the world...are today.
Well, we all got here by ignoring Jesus’ accurate teaching and so we can be certain that that is how to prevent this mess in the future…that is, after the new heavens and the new Earth comes into force.
It will all be less painful if we make a start before-hand…but that is up to us…as individuals.
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I'm noit sure that any of this has any relevance to Jesus' teachings, Nick. If anything, you seem to be hijacking his life for little or nothing.
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I'm noit sure that any of this has any relevance to Jesus' teachings, Nick. If anything, you seem to be hijacking his life for little or nothing.
What I am trying to do Hope is point out that what happened to Jesus had an emotional dynamic which we are subject to today, ourselves.
The linage shows us that right to this day...over a period of a few thousand years...the same controlling laws have existed, causing the same problems...and there is a way out...not by force or ignorance but by righteous patience and belief in the accurate teaching of Jesus. Born to be king for all eternity.
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Matthew 1-1:25 details the pedigree of Jesus Christ. He is of the highest stock…In his family linage is Abraham…remember him…he is the father of the Jewish nation
But Abraham is meant to be the ancestor of all the Jews. They would all have claimed descent from Abraham making Jesus nothing special.
…also David, who was the first king of Israel. With a line of descent like that Jesus was certainly going to be very special…especially as all 3 of them had direct help from Almighty God.
Except of course, it is Joseph who claimed descent from King David but Joseph was not Jesus' father, allegedly.
This problem destroys your premise, so we can safely ignore the rest of your post.
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But Abraham is meant to be the ancestor of all the Jews. They would all have claimed descent from Abraham making Jesus nothing special.
Except of course, it is Joseph who claimed descent from King David but Joseph was not Jesus' father, allegedly.
This problem destroys your premise, so we can safely ignore the rest of your post.
That wouldn't be wise jeremyp.
True Jesus was conceived by a virgin and this person was to become the Son of God...but Joseph was the husband of Mary and the rights that were Joseph's were inherited by the son. Jesus, who had no earthly father, in spiritual terms, certainly had a father in legal terms. We could play around with the Biblical facts and say that the linage spoken of in Luke were the ancestors of Mary but it isn't too important here. What is important is that Jesus had an inherited right to the throne of David both by marriage and by the law of God.
Of course, you can dismiss everything I say...I'm not important...except that I am the only person, telling you directly, what is in store for this planet and how, Biblically speaking, you can be saved...and, Biblically speaking, what to expect before hand and afterwards...and it is all courtesy of the belief that Abraham and David passed down their linage.
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The Pedigree is meaningless, a man-made irrelevance.
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What I am trying to do Hope is point out that what happened to Jesus had an emotional dynamic which we are subject to today, ourselves.
The linage shows us that right to this day...over a period of a few thousand years...the same controlling laws have existed, causing the same problems...and there is a way out...not by force or ignorance but by righteous patience and belief in the accurate teaching of Jesus. Born to be king for all eternity.
So, why not say that humans and human society suffer from the same problems as they did in Jesus' time. Why do you need to use all the fancy terminology that often makes little sense because it is jargonistic.
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Dear Nicholas,
Our Lords pedigree!
His pedigree as you call it is this, through his Teachings and life he founded the Greatest Religion man has ever known, his pedigree is that through his wisdom he distilled all of the greatest teachers the world has ever known into his Teachings, his pedigree is that the Son washed the feet of his followers, his pedigree is that he knew his fate but stayed the course, his pedigree is that he cried out to the Father, his pedigree is that he died on the Cross.
His pedigree is this,
John 13:34-35
Our Lord needs no other pedigree.
Gonnagle.
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Except of course, it is Joseph who claimed descent from King David but Joseph was not Jesus' father, allegedly.
This problem destroys your premise, so we can safely ignore the rest of your post.
Except that Jewishness is passed down the mother's line for Jews, and therefore it was as important for Mary to have been of David's line as it was Joseph.
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…In his family linage is Abraham…
According to the New Testament account, there were about 40 generations between Abraham and Jesus. If we assume that only two children were produced by each descendent in each generation then there would have been more than 1,000,000,000,000 who could claim descent from Abraham.
Not only Jesus, but Judas Iscariot, Herod Antipas, Pontius Pilate and Cleopatra could claim descent from Abraham. Not much of a claim is it!
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Dear Nicholas,
Our Lords pedigree!
His pedigree as you call it is this, through his Teachings and life he founded the Greatest Religion man has ever known, his pedigree is that through his wisdom he distilled all of the greatest teachers the world has ever known into his Teachings, his pedigree is that the Son washed the feet of his followers, his pedigree is that he knew his fate but stayed the course, his pedigree is that he cried out to the Father, his pedigree is that he died on the Cross.
His pedigree is this,
John 13:34-35
Our Lord needs no other pedigree.
Gonnagle
No arguements there Gonnagle. The point I am making is this...I opened up the scripture on the first page of the NT and realised it was that boring page on the line of descent of Jesus and I decided to give it a little sparkle and see what others thought.
The geneolgy is in fact quite interesting in that there is a direct line of linage from Abraham to Jesus and it is the same model all other instituional monarchs use to establish their own right to rule...it's just that Jesus's is much more special than theirs
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Dear Nicholas,
Our Lords pedigree!
His pedigree as you call it is this, through his Teachings and life he founded the Greatest Religion man has ever known, his pedigree is that through his wisdom he distilled all of the greatest teachers the world has ever known into his Teachings, his pedigree is that the Son washed the feet of his followers, his pedigree is that he knew his fate but stayed the course, his pedigree is that he cried out to the Father, his pedigree is that he died on the Cross.
His pedigree is this,
John 13:34-35
Our Lord needs no other pedigree.
Gonnagle.
Absolutely, Gonners. Says it all! Jesus has no family history: He is Son of God, made human, and the conflicting genealogies in the NT are simply Midrashim, written to convince Jewish readers that Jesus was wholly Jewish.
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True Jesus was conceived by a virgin and this person was to become the Son of God...
Does this mean Jesus was a clone of his mother ?
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Does this mean Jesus was a clone of his mother ?
No...it.means that he was a clone of his heavenly father...perfect in every detail.
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So he wasn't really human at all then ?
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So he wasn't really human at all then ?
That's where Mary comes in to the equation.
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That's where Mary comes in to the equation.
If Jesus had no biological father then he would have been a clone, more or less identical to, his mother; including, he would have been a woman
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If Jesus had no biological father then he would have been a clone, more or less identical to, his mother; including, he would have been a woman
Only if you leave Almighty God out of the equation. If God made Adam and Eve he was certainly capable of putting the finest dna structure inside those cells he developed for this project and he would be much cleverer than you I in explaining what he did..
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Only if you leave Almighty God out of the equation. If God made Adam and Eve he was certainly capable of putting the finest dna structure inside those cells he developed for this project and he would be much cleverer than you I in explaining what he did..
Ah, I see, maybe Mary was used as a surrogate. Clever. But that does mean of course that Jesus was not really of David's line then.
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Ah, I see, maybe Mary was used as a surrogate. Clever. But that does mean of course that Jesus was not really of David's line then.
I have discovered torridon, that with the Holy Bible it isn't wise to form our own anti-conclusions too wildly because there is a better answer within its logic that we are unable, yet, to work out. We just aren't clever enough.
It is best to just accept it as true and work out why it is true rather than try to talk yourself out of resurrection.
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I have discovered torridon, that with the Holy Bible it isn't wise to form our own anti-conclusions too wildly because there is a better answer within its logic that we are unable, yet, to work out. We just aren't clever enough.
It is best to just accept it as true and work out why it is true rather than try to talk yourself out of resurrection.
I disagree, that is an example of poor critical reasoning, we can do better than that.
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Dear Nicholas,
No arguements there Gonnagle. The point I am making is this...I opened up the scripture on the first page of the NT and realised it was that boring page on the line of descent of Jesus and I decided to give it a little sparkle and see what others thought.
Fair enough old son ;) it is just one of my little foible's, Our Lord needs no CV, his Divinity shines out in the Gospels, oh and by the way!! when debating with unbelievers who use words like "clone" and "surrogate" , these are man made words, based on a science that changes with every new discovery.
Gonnagle.
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That wouldn't be wise jeremyp.
Yes it would.
True Jesus was conceived by a virgin and this person was to become the Son of God...but Joseph was the husband of Mary and the rights that were Joseph's were inherited by the son.
In that case, Josephs lineage was irrelevant.
What is important is that Jesus had an inherited right to the throne of David both by marriage and by the law of God.
Not necessarily. Even if he was in the direct male line, he need not have been the legal heir to the throne.
Anyway, why do you need to obsess about this? According to your religion, Jesus is God. Why would he care about a poxy little kingdom that was smaller than almost all of the US states.
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Yes it would.
In that case, Josephs lineage was irrelevant.
Not necessarily. Even if he was in the direct male line, he need not have been the legal heir to the throne.
Anyway, why do you need to obsess about this? According to your religion, Jesus is God. Why would he care about a poxy little kingdom that was smaller than almost all of the US states.
According to my understanding, jeremyp, Jesus is the Son of God...you see...you are suffering from brain-washing imposed on the early church to support false prophets steering that church.
I obsess about this because the signs are that those who don't obsess about righteousness will find that they have rejected a science which is the ultimate science in repairing health and peoples, world-wide, including that massive United States and this tiddily little island...and a few others beside. Look at the Jews thriving with only God's OT guidence...but they will come to regret rejecting Jesus.
As I mentioned earlier, the linage of Joseph will have a deeper meaning than we can yet possibly understand, but it will be true, in God's eyes, else he wouldn't have said it. It is like a test really, believe in what God and Jesus Christ say, else don't expect to be part of the future deal...and the signs say that that future deal isn't so very far off.
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.and the signs say that that future deal isn't so very far off.
How far off then Nick?
Could it be any (http://any)of the following?
5 days
5 weeks
5 months
5 years
5 decades
5 centuries
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According to my understanding, jeremyp, Jesus is the Son of God...you see...you are suffering from brain-washing imposed on the early church to support false prophets steering that church.
Or more likely, it might be that you are suffering 'brain-washing', induced by thousands of years of cultural conditioning underlaid by a complex of legacy human biases.
I obsess about this because the signs are that those who don't obsess about righteousness will find that they have rejected a science which is the ultimate science in repairing health and peoples, world-wide, including that massive United States and this tiddily little island...and a few others beside. Look at the Jews thriving with only God's OT guidence...but they will come to regret rejecting Jesus.
You appear to have no idea of what science is. Science is a process, a bunch of methods for finding things out. I'm sure someone must have already pointed this error out to you before.
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How far off then Nick?
Could it be any (http://any)of the following?
5 days
5 weeks
5 months
5 years
5 decades
5 centuries
No one knows the hpur or the day Seb...except Almighty God who is in Heaven...you already know that so why not read all the signs that Biblically pin it to soon. Make it yourown personal project because we have all noticed just how concerned you are.
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Or more likely, it might be that you are suffering 'brain-washing', induced by thousands of years of cultural conditioning underlaid by a complex of legacy human biases.
You appear to have no idea of what science is. Science is a process, a bunch of methods for finding things out. I'm sure someone must have already pointed this error out to you before.
Oh ye of little faith...your God is way ahead of us on science. He tells us constantly in his written word and Jesus...the son of Joseph and the son of God was an instrument sent to enable us to understand that science....when the time is ripe.
Ps...I have worked out why Jesus is in truth the son of Joseph...or at least...I have worked out the best answer. It is really quite startling...but...there we go.
Most of my science is built upon best answers when comparing the Holy Bible with modern science whereby the Holy Bible is always correct and the scientifc bible is stuck.
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torri,
You appear to have no idea of what science is. Science is a process, a bunch of methods for finding things out. I'm sure someone must have already pointed this error out to you before.
Many, many times :'(
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Ps...I have worked out why Jesus is in truth the son of Joseph...or at least...I have worked out the best answer. It is really quite startling...but...there we go.
You don't mean that Joseph and Mary were doing the old horizontal tango?
Quick pass the smelling salts.
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You don't mean that Joseph and Mary were doing the old horizontal tango?
Quick pass the smelling salts.
No...that would call God a liar and anyway disgusting things aren't encouraged in righteous circumstances. No...it is much more startling than that...but it highlights certain experiences of a number of people in this day and age and proves that Almighty God is the most fantastic scientist and biologist this planet has ever known...but we already know this because of Adam and Eve.
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No...it is much more startling than that...but it highlights certain experiences of a number of people in this day and age and proves that Almighty God is the most fantastic scientist and biologist this planet has ever known...but we already know this because of Adam and Eve.
SO are you going to share this startling revelation - or do we have to carry on guessing?
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SO are you going to share this startling revelation - or do we have to carry on guessing?
Sometimes you have to weigh-up whether all the abuse is worth it. It seems that when people have convinced themselves there is no God...the sudden realisation that there is becomes too much for them to contain and I get the brunt of it, here...so...patience...all will be revealed in due course. But...be warned...we are looking at an omnipotent God who is watching our every move and who offers no salvation to the unrepentant.
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Sparky,
It seems that when people have convinced themselves there is no God...
You misunderstand. The atheist finds there to be no cogent argument for "God". "God" still might be, as indeed any other conjecture might be but your endless assertions here with no argument of any kind to support them are just so much white noise to anyone possessed of a functioning intellect.
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Sparky,
You misunderstand. The atheist finds there to be no cogent argument for "God". "God" still might be, as indeed any other conjecture might be but your endless assertions here with no argument of any kind to support them are just so much white noise to anyone possessed of a functioning intellect.
When you finally realise that the entire universe is the product of a wonderful, dynamic energy, that is the foundation stone of all science...sciences that are hardly known by modern science and that Almighty God via his 'word' made that science known to us...you may be in with a shout bluehillside...as it is you are haphazardly denying something which could have saved you...but if we are honest, that is getting less likely by the day.
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How far off then Nick?
Could it be any (http://any)of the following?
5 days
5 weeks
5 months
5 years
5 decades
5 centuries
No one knows the hpur or the day Seb...except Almighty God who is in Heaven...you already know that so why not read all the signs that Biblically pin it to soon.
Well Nick, the reason I ask you is because it is you who has seemingly done all the 'research' and after all of that 'research' you have concluded that it will be 'soon'.
So please give us the benefit of your conclusions.
Where in the list I have given do you conclude it is most likely to fall.
Please not that I am not asking for a direct and 'accurate' date, just your best guess because we know that you cannot actually 'know' based on your reply above.
I'm sure that your God will not hold that against you as a guess is not a hard prediction is it?
(even although it is obvious, especially to him as he knows your every inner thoughts, that you have been trying for years to scare people with your hints at 'soon', 'just around the corner', 'imminent' etc!)
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Sparky,
When you finally realise that the entire universe is the product of a wonderful, dynamic energy, that is the foundation stone of all science...sciences that are hardly known by modern science and that Almighty God via his 'word' made that science known to us...you may be in with a shout bluehillside...as it is you are haphazardly denying something which could have saved you...but if we are honest, that is getting less likely by the day.
How would you propose that I go about realising something I've been given no reason to think to be true?
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Well Nick, the reason I ask you is because it is you who has seemingly done all the 'research' and after all of that 'research' you have concluded that it will be 'soon'.
So please give us the benefit of your conclusions.
Where in the list I have given do you conclude it is most likely to fall.
Please not that I am not asking for a direct and 'accurate' date, just your best guess because we know that you cannot actually 'know' based on your reply above.
I'm sure that your God will not hold that against you as a guess is not a hard prediction is it?
(even although it is obvious, especially to him as he knows your every inner thoughts, that you have been trying for years to scare people with your hints at 'soon', 'just around the corner', 'imminent' etc!)
You are missing the point Seb...as you always do...Everyone who wants salvation must have a working knowledge of why righteousness is good for you...your family...your neighbours....your friends...and your relationship with God's dynamic energy...if others can do it so can you. It all starts with the Gospels...it is between you and Jesus...I'm just trying to help you help yourself.
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Sparky,
How would you propose that I go about realising something I've been given no reason to think to be true?
Now that is untrue, Blue! Nick has given year all of his knowledge and still you know nothing about God!
Oh, wait a minute though ... How can all of that knowledge add up to zero? is there a mathematician in the house, please?
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Ps...I have worked out why Jesus is in truth the son of Joseph...or at least...I have worked out the best answer. It is really quite startling...but...there we go.
Oooh, does that mean I have stimulated you into some more original thinking ? Not sure whether I have done a good thing here or not. :-\
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Sparky,
How would you propose that I go about realising something I've been given no reason to think to be true?
More or less what I just told Seb, bluehillside...do your own research...find out for yourself...Read the Gospels...do it privately and quietly...and do it by following Jesus accurately avoiding iniquity...and, you will be in with a shout.
I don't know your history...so no guarantees...but Almighty God does.
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Oooh, does that mean I have stimulated you into some more original thinking ? Not sure whether I have done a good thing here or not. :-\
Yes...I don't like addmiting it but it seems that the answer just presented itself after chewing over the fat a little and your post was certainly part of the gristle.
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;D ;D
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Sparky,
More or less what I just told Seb, bluehillside...do your own research...find out for yourself...Read the Gospels...do it privately and quietly...and do it by following Jesus accurately avoiding iniquity...and, you will be in with a shout.
I don't know your history...so no guarantees...but Almighty God does.
I can read them 'til I'm blue in the face thanks. The question remains though: why would I find them to be anything other than a collection of early texts trying to make sense of the world to the best of the abilities of the authors, who themselves knew less science than a modern nine-year-old?
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Sparky,
I can read them 'til I'm blue in the face thanks. The question remains though: why would I find them to be anything other than a collection of early texts trying to make sense of the world to the best of the abilities of the authors, who themselves knew less science than a modern nine-year-old?
Oh dear...the power of brain-washing...you have convinced yourself, aided by dawkinism, ooops...you don't like that word do you...aided by atheism that you are right when you are wrong. I cannot see how the world with all its beauty and nature can be in such a terrible state...until I realised that atheists are ruling the roost and these have no understanding of spiritual matters...so I thought I would help them.
Part of God's teaching is written for a 9 year old scientific intellect as we were 4000 years ago...but it also contains knowledge which can be opened up into a wonderful scientific text book which begins...In the beginning was the word and that word, which was with God, is the entire science of the universe.
You may wonder where Jesus features in this...well he delivered God's word by living it...whilst telling us what to expect in those 'last days'.
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Sparky,
Oh dear...the power of brain-washing...you have convinced yourself, aided by dawkinism, ooops...you don't like that word do you...aided by atheism that you are right when you are wrong. I cannot see how the world with all its beauty and nature can be in such a terrible state...until I realised that atheists are ruling the roost and these have no understanding of spiritual matters...so I thought I would help them.
Part of God's teaching is written for a 9 year old scientific intellect as we were 4000 years ago...but it also contains knowledge which can be opened up into a wonderful scientific text book which begins...In the beginning was the word and that word, which was with God, is the entire science of the universe.
You may wonder where Jesus features in this...well he delivered God's word by living it...whilst telling us what to expect in those 'last days'.
No - the logic leads where the logic leads. That you can never answer the questions you're actually asked just continues to undermine your un-argued and un-evidenced assertions here.
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Sparky,
No - the logic leads where the logic leads. That you can never answer the questions you're actually asked just continues to undermine your un-argued and un-evidenced assertions here.
It all brings the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ to the forefront of our thinking...You bluehillside refuse to acknowledge the slightest possibility that modern science could be right and that a powerful energy is at the root of everything...I have simply shown how we have known this for as long as the Holy Bible has been in existance. It has forged mighty nations and it has reached into the turmoil of the oppressed...in their millions. It is the structure behind every worthwhile institution...and all charity is best expressed by its teaching. A few old men shouting out that it doesn't exist wont make the slightest difference to the amount of goodness it is responsible for...but those old men should be warned...God's plan is near its final stages.
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Anyway, why do you need to obsess about this? According to your religion, Jesus is God. Why would he care about a poxy little kingdom that was smaller than almost all of the US states.
Nicky boy has been in part influenced by the Jehovah's Witnesses, and adopts the view of Arius about Jesus. Of course, he wanders away from the JWs' ideas whenever his flights of fancy take over.
I think he still tends to quote from the New World Translation though - not much, just the same old reiteration of three or four verses
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No one knows the hpur or the day Seb...except Almighty God who is in Heaven...you already know that so why not read all the signs that Biblically pin it to soon. Make it yourown personal project because we have all noticed just how concerned you are.
Jesus said he didn't know the day or hour, but knew the generation - his own.
Your favourite part of the Bible - Revelation - states at the beginning "every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him" - a pretty clear indication that those who crucified him would still be alive to see Jesus' return.
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You are missing the point Seb...as you always do...Everyone who wants salvation must have a working knowledge of why righteousness is good for you...your family...your neighbours....your friends...and your relationship with God's dynamic energy...if others can do it so can you. It all starts with the Gospels...it is between you and Jesus...I'm just trying to help you help yourself.
No, it is you, Super Slippy Nick, who is avoiding the point yet again.
You claim to have 'accurately' studied the coming of Wormwood and you tell us with graet bravado and confidence and assurance that it will be here 'soon', ' imminently' etc. Yet when asked to put your cards on the table for a rough estimate of even a guess - you go all shy all of a sudden.
Has your ' accuracy' the ability to dissappear for a period of time, only when you are pressed, then suddenly a short time later it appears again when you think nobody has noticed.
The mark of a shyster and con - man Nick.
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Dear Seb,
Shyster and con - man!! You do know old friend that there is on this forum a rule, a unwritten rule, why! because it is so bloody obvious to all, well if you have a modicum of intelligence, you can just ignore posters, you can walk away with dignity if the answers you receive are not to your liking, you can say to yourself, that guy or gal is a fuckwit, but there is no need to express that feeling in words, especially if that guy or gal is in general a nice guy or gal.
I myself have done it many times ( I am always right, even when I am wrong, me wrong! that's a hoot ) anyway, no need for name calling, just say conversation closed or we are getting nowhere here.
Just to add, politeness is a key mark of a West Coast man, especially when we have dinked you over the head with our empty ( empty is important ) buckfast bottle.
Gonnagle.
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Jesus said he didn't know the day or hour, but knew the generation - his own.
Your favourite part of the Bible - Revelation - states at the beginning "every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him" - a pretty clear indication that those who crucified him would still be alive to see Jesus' return.
If I started explaining that one Dicky you would be even more aggressive towards righteous truth...but I will introduce you to that truth.
It all revolves around resurrection. The crux of Jesus' teaching is that we can all be resurrected from one generation to the next...from our old bludgeoned vessel to a new vessel...as long as we follow his teaching. It isn't a question of consulting Almighty God every time...it is a question of how the electric mechanics of the world, and the universe work.
There will come a time when even those left in the ether will be reborn but only briefly. They are destined for Wormwood unless they can grasp righteous truth and repent in time. I suspect that time is now...and the lack of self discipline and moral decline throughout the world suggests I'm right.
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Dear All...
I know it's not what you want to hear...but is still best answer on this Biblical mystery. It has points of evidence from experiences of a number of people alive today and is certainly within the capability of those who made Adam & Eve in their own image.
It needs to be said because many of the all powerful statements made by your omnipotent God are brought to universal accuracy when we build it into our understanding. I am of course talking about Joseph's linage being associated directly with Jesus Christ.
Best answer states rhat Joseph was taken from this planeet as an abductee by righteous forces and his genetic material extracted...cleaned up a bit, before being implanted in Mary via a similar route. This is why there were no arguments with the angels...both Joseph and Mary knew they were both dealing with very superior beings.
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There will come a time when even those left in the ether will be reborn but only briefly. They are destined for Wormwood unless they can grasp righteous truth and repent in time. I suspect that time is now...and the lack of self discipline and moral decline throughout the world suggests I'm right.
Back to scaremongering again Nick.
If there is a God then we don't need to worry, God will take care of business, he will do whatever is best for us. If he is unable to save us from Wormwood Scrubs then he is feeble and therefore not God. If he doesn't want to save us then he is evil and therefore not God.
Scaremongering is not consistent with righteousness.
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Dear All...
I know it's not what you want to hear...but is still best answer on this Biblical mystery. It has points of evidence from experiences of a number of people alive today and is certainly within the capability of those who made Adam & Eve in their own image.
It needs to be said because many of the all powerful statements made by your omnipotent God are brought to universal accuracy when we build it into our understanding. I am of course talking about Joseph's linage being associated directly with Jesus Christ.
Best answer states rhat Joseph was taken from this planeet as an abductee by righteous forces and his genetic material extracted...cleaned up a bit, before being implanted in Mary via a similar route. This is why there were no arguments with the angels...both Joseph and Mary knew they were both dealing with very superior beings.
I always understood that Jews took adoption very seriously and if a person (or couple), assumed parentage of a child, that child was theirs as much as if they were biological parents, more so than adoptive parents do in our culture. That is why Joseph's lineage (descended from the House of David), is considered to be so relevant to Jesus, he rightfully inherited it even if not biologically. I believe Mary was a Levite, descended from the House of Aaron, the High Priest.
However the theory you put forward is an interesting one, certainly not something that has ever occurred to me.
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Best answer states rhat Joseph was taken from this planeet as an abductee by righteous forces and his genetic material extracted...cleaned up a bit, before being implanted in Mary via a similar route. This is why there were no arguments with the angels...both Joseph and Mary knew they were both dealing with very superior beings.
No need for abduction to do this, a drop of saliva is all you need to decode someone's genome.
Not sure what 'cleaned up' would mean in this context. Eliminate heritable disease, OK, but most things coded for are characteristics; there is no such thing as a 'correct' eye colour or nose shape.
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Back to scaremongering again Nick.
If there is a God then we don't need to worry, God will take care of business, he will do whatever is best for us. If he is unable to save us from Wormwood Scrubs then he is feeble and therefore not God. If he doesn't want to save us then he is evil and therefore not God.
Scaremongering is not consistent with righteousness.
It's perhaps best to read your Holy Bible and find out exactly what Jesus Christ says about Almighty God's Judgement, torri.
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No need for abduction to do this, a drop of saliva is all you need to decode someone's genome.
Not sure what 'cleaned up' would mean in this context. Eliminate heritable disease, OK, but most things coded for are characteristics; there is no such thing as a 'correct' eye colour or nose shape.
There you go again torri...thinking you know better than the angels.
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I don't see the sense in the idea that God endows man with reasoning ability and then expect him to not use it. What would be the point in having legs if we all refuse to walk ?
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I don't see the sense in the idea that God endows man with reasoning ability and then expect him to not use it. What would be the point in having legs if we all refuse to walk ?
It strikes me torri...mainly because I am familiar with the Holy Bible...that Almighty God is working to a plan. That plan tells me that the human being, regardless of its sinful state at the moment, is capable of much better and we are each encouraged to find that much better. It is very important that we try because there are strong influences in everones lives that are pulling us apart at the seams.
Don't be one of them torri...look at the wonderful pedigree of Jesus Christ and know...Almighty God means business.
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It strikes me torri...mainly because I am familiar with the Holy Bible...that Almighty God is working to a plan. That plan tells me that the human being, regardless of its sinful state at the moment, is capable of much better and we are each encouraged to find that much better. It is very important that we try because there are strong influences in everones lives that are pulling us apart at the seams.
Don't be one of them torri...look at the wonderful pedigree of Jesus Christ and know...Almighty God means business.
Nobody improves themselves by ditching their reasoning ability. If it offends against reason, then it is probably wrong imo.
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Nobody improves themselves by ditching their reasoning ability. If it offends against reason, then it is probably wrong imo.
It's not a question of ditching our reasoning ability but a question of restoring it so that we can all live in peace and harmony.
Those that don't like peace and harmony have unfortunately reasoned themselves out of a wonderful future built around truth, honesty and everlasting life.
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Matthew 1-1:25 details the pedigree of Jesus Christ. He is of the highest stock…In his family linage is Abraham…remember him…he is the father of the Jewish nation…also David, who was the first king of Israel. With a line of descent like that Jesus was certainly going to be very special…especially as all 3 of them had direct help from Almighty God.
The Jews don’t accept Jesus but that is because the Rabbis and the high priests had forged a good social status among God’s people and no distant relative of their own authority was going to upset the apple-cart.
What Jesus did, in fact, is show us that all governing bodies can have elements of the same cancerous attitude. That regardless of what the image of the group, as presented, is, there are, among their number, hard-core, self-seekers, organising their own self-interest and pushing the voice of the whole group to follow their own cancerous policies.
Not until the general population gets wise to these tactics will there ever be any improvement and if we follow cancerous behaviour we will finish up a cancerous society...and we should know what that means.
Almighty God has given us a period to see where a cancerous society leads to. It leads to where we...the world...are today.
Well, we all got here by ignoring Jesus’ accurate teaching and so we can be certain that that is how to prevent this mess in the future…that is, after the new heavens and the new Earth comes into force.
It will all be less painful if we make a start before-hand…but that is up to us…as individuals.
Here's someone who knows far more about genetics than you or I telling us.....
That's why everyone alive in the Holy Land at the time of Jesus would have been able to claim David for an ancestor.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19331938
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Here's someone who knows far more about genetics than you or I telling us.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19331938
A nice submission Khatru but you have missed the vital point. This is that if Joseph had none of the necessary contact with Mary, before hand, how can he be included in the genetic line from Abraham??
I have given the best answer...but that doesn't make it correct it just means that us mere mortal earthlings have got a better answer than 'no answer' proving that we don't know everything whilst Almighty God always speaks the truth.
A confidence we build-up within us when we take his word seriously.
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It's not a question of ditching our reasoning ability but a question of restoring it so that we can all live in peace and harmony.
OK, well remember that the next time you ask us to just 'accept' things on faith.
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Sparky,
It strikes me torri...mainly because I am familiar with the Holy Bible...that Almighty God is working to a plan.
This'll be lost on you, but that's called a non sequitur. You can be as familiar with the "Holy" Bible as you like - really you could read it from cover-to-cover forwards, backwards, hanging from the rafters and translated into 27 languages (including Swahili) if you like. And still all you would know is what that book says. That's it - no logic, no argument, no anything to enable you to map its contents to a reality outside of its pages.
If you seriously ever wanted to make an argument to explain why you think it to be true then you'd need to step outside of the what the Bible claims and into a logic that supports your contentions.
Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? Seriously, why?
Every time someone asks you why you think the Bible is correct you just tell us more of what it says. What on earth makes you think that that's an answer to the question?
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Sparky,
This'll be lost on you, but that's called a non sequitur. You can be as familiar with the "Holy" Bible as you like - really you could read it from cover-to-cover forwards, backwards, hanging from the rafters and translated into 27 languages (including Swahili) if you like. And still all you would know is what that book says. That's it - no logic, no argument, no anything to enable you to map its contents to a reality outside of its pages.
If you seriously ever wanted to make an argument to explain why you think it to be true then you'd need to step outside of the what the Bible claims and into a logic that supports your contentions.
Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? Seriously, why?
Every time someone asks you why you think the Bible is correct you just tell us more of what it says. What on earth makes you think that that's an answer to the question?
I have only one thing to say to you bluehillside...'The Grand Unification of All the Field Forces.'
Here is your separate, scientific answer. Everything unifies together scientifically...but science can't do it...even though they have spent billions trying.
The secret is that all their particles start life as a watery type substance. An electric plasma that isn't yet mass but becomes mass when you go step by step along the production process of every possible permitation.
This superabundant raw material is listed in the Holy Bible and not even you can deny that. I have taken it a step further and am showing you it is all included in the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
But I'm not just telling you bluehillside, I am telling all those that will listen that this is the bed-rock behind all of Jesus' teaching because it is owned by Almighty God and will deliver repair, resurrection and everlasting life if we comply with God's righteous laws.
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Sparky,
I have only one thing to say to you bluehillside...'The Grand Unification of All the Field Forces.'
Here is your separate, scientific answer. Everything unifies together scientifically...but science can't do it...even though they have spent billions trying.
The secret is that all their particles start life as a watery type substance. An electric plasma that isn't yet mass but becomes mass when you go step by step along the production process of every possible permitation.
This superabundant raw material is listed in the Holy Bible and not even you can deny that. I have taken it a step further and am showing you it is all included in the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
But I'm not just telling you bluehillside, I am telling all those that will listen that this is the bed-rock behind all of Jesus' teaching because it is owned by Almighty God and will deliver repair, resurrection and everlasting life if we comply with God's righteous laws.
Assertions noted. Now then - WHY do you think any of that to be true?
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Dear Blue,
Assertions noted. Now then - WHY do you think any of that to be true?
Yes!! Our Nicholas does that to some posters :P :P Me! I am more relaxed regarding his Science of Righteousness, it has a nice ring to it, if you follow some of his stuff it is backed up by, well lets call it "real science".
I remember one time he was chuntering on about nervous energy and linking it to football crowds, it turns out there are real scientific studies into crowd behaviour at football matches, wasted energy, and also real scientific studies into nervous energy, linking it to anxiety.
So relax Blue, chill out, join our Nicholas and Prof Hawking in looking for The Grand Unification of all the Field Forces :P Although I think Prof Hawking has another name for it ::)
Gonnagle.
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I have only one thing to say to you bluehillside...'The Grand Unification of All the Field Forces.'
Here is your separate, scientific answer. Everything unifies together scientifically...but science can't do it...even though they have spent billions trying.
The secret is that all their particles start life as a watery type substance. An electric plasma that isn't yet mass but becomes mass when you go step by step along the production process of every possible permitation.
This superabundant raw material is listed in the Holy Bible and not even you can deny that. I have taken it a step further and am showing you it is all included in the accurate teaching of Jesus Christ.
But I'm not just telling you bluehillside, I am telling all those that will listen that this is the bed-rock behind all of Jesus' teaching because it is owned by Almighty God and will deliver repair, resurrection and everlasting life if we comply with God's righteous laws.
Particles don't start from a watery substance, they collapse from a probability wave. Don't get confused with ocean waves being watery now. It would seem that Jesus had a poor understanding of quantum theory.
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I suspect that time is now...
Nick,I've mislaid my Sparky's dictionary of misused and abused words.
Can you please tell me if 'now' means before - or - after, 'soon'?
That would help put your post in context.
Many thanks..... :)
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A nice submission Khatru but you have missed the vital point. This is that if Joseph had none of the necessary contact with Mary, before hand, how can he be included in the genetic line from Abraham??
From the article....
Theory tells us that not only would all of Jesus's contemporaries be descended from King David, but that this would probably be the case even if Solomon had been into monogamy.
We can make this sort of prediction because over the past 15 years or so, these ideas have been studied as part of the research into understanding patterns in our own genome.
Note that Joseph would come under "all of Jesus's contemporaries.
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From the article....
Note that Joseph would come under "all of Jesus's contemporaries.
Yes, that's right. Not just Jesus, but everyone living in the region would have been a descendent of both David and Abraham simply by virtue of the way human family trees grow over extended periods of time. Similarly all modern Europeans can justly claim to be descendants of Charlemagne the Great, the last common ancestor of Europeans is calculated to be around 1400AD. The last common ancestor for the entire human population of Earth is calculated to be around 1400BC IIRC.
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The last common ancestor for the entire human population of Earth is calculated to be around 1400BC IIRC.
It's just pity they were such a dick!
Surely there are some peoples whose interaction with people descended from that person is not sufficient for that to be that case? Thinking of some of the populations who have only been discovered in last 50 years or so?
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It's just pity they were such a dick!
Surely there are some peoples whose interaction with people descended from that person is not sufficient for that to be that case? Thinking of some of the populations who have only been discovered in last 50 years or so?
Yes I suppose we would have to exclude recently discovered tribal peoples from that statistic, but of course numerically they are insignificant. To include them we would have to factor in the last Out Of Africa migrations
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Yes I suppose we would have to exclude recently discovered tribal peoples from that statistic, but of course numerically they are insignificant. To include them we would have to factor in the last Out Of Africa migrations
I wonder if you could model a prediction on when that wouldn't be necessary.
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Yes, that's right. Not just Jesus, but everyone living in the region would have been a descendent of both David and Abraham simply by virtue of the way human family trees grow over extended periods of time. Similarly all modern Europeans can justly claim to be descendants of Charlemagne the Great, the last common ancestor of Europeans is calculated to be around 1400AD. The last common ancestor for the entire human population of Earth is calculated to be around 1400BC IIRC.
These are reckonings I struggle to grasp.
Far be it from me to question the work of geneticists but following recent news, does it follow that the xommon ancestor for all humanity is an Australian Aborigine?
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These are reckonings I struggle to grasp.
Far be it from me to question the work of geneticists but following recent news, does it follow that the xommon ancestor for all humanity is an Australian Aborigine?
Highly unlikely to be an Australian Aborigine. More likely he/she would have been a resident of the Middle East.
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Dear Blue, Yes!! Our Nicholas does that to some posters :P :P Me! I am more relaxed regarding his Science of Righteousness, it has a nice ring to it, if you follow some of his stuff it is backed up by, well lets call it "real science". I remember one time he was chuntering on about nervous energy and linking it to football crowds, it turns out there are real scientific studies into crowd behaviour at football matches, wasted energy, and also real scientific studies into nervous energy, linking it to anxiety. So relax Blue, chill out, join our Nicholas and Prof Hawking in looking for The Grand Unification of all the Field Forces :P Although I think Prof Hawking has another name for it ::) Gonnagle.
Er.....he's not the only one with another name for it.......