Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on September 27, 2016, 05:09:24 PM
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Hi Everyone,
Here is an article from BBC on vegetarianism
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian
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People become vegetarians for a variety of reasons. Some do it to alleviate animal suffering, others because they want to pursue a healthier lifestyle. Still others are fans of sustainability or wish to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
No matter how much their carnivorous friends might deny it, vegetarians have a point: cutting out meat delivers multiple benefits. And the more who make the switch, the more those perks would manifest on a global scale.
In the US, for example, an average family of four emits more greenhouse gases because of the meat they eat than from driving two cars – but it is cars, not steaks, that regularly come up in discussions about global warming.
“Most people don’t think of the consequences of food on climate change,” says Tim Benton, a food security expert at the University of Leeds. “But just eating a little less meat right now might make things a whole lot better for our children and grandchildren.”
The results indicate that – largely thanks to the elimination of red meat – food-related emissions would drop by about 60%. If the world went vegan instead, emissions declines would be around 70%.
Should we all go vegetarian, ideally we would dedicate at least 80% of that pastureland to the restoration of grasslands and forests, which would capture carbon and further alleviate climate change. Converting former pastures to native habitats would likely also be a boon to biodiversity, including for large herbivores such as buffalo that were pushed out for cattle, as well as for predators like wolves that are often killed in retaliation for attacking livestock.
The remaining 10 to 20% of former pastureland could be used for growing more crops to fill gaps in the food supply.
Springmann’s computer model study showed that, should everyone go vegetarian by 2050, we would see a global mortality reduction of 6-10%, thanks to a lessening of coronary heart disease, diabetes, stroke and some cancers. Eliminating red meat accounts for half of that decline, while the remaining benefits are thanks to scaling back the number of calories people consume and increasing the amount of fruit and vegetables they eat. A worldwide vegan diet would further amplify these benefits: vegetarianism staves off about 7 million deaths per year, while veganism knocks that estimate up to 8 million. Fewer people suffering from food-related chronic illnesses would also mean a reduction in medical bills, saving about 2-3% of global gross domestic product.
One study found that simply conforming to the World Health Organization’s dietary recommendations would bring the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions down by 17% – a figure that would drop by an additional 40% should citizens further avoid animal products and processed snacks. “These are dietary changes that consumers would barely notice, like having a just-slightly-smaller piece of meat,” Jarvis says. “It’s not this either-or, vegetarian-or-carnivore scenario.”
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As given above, I think most meat eaters could try to reduce their meat consumption somewhat. This would itself have benefits.
I know some Christians and Muslims think that meat eating is a religious duty of some kind....but even they could reduce meat eating. Its good for the planet and for the individual.
Cheers.
Sriram
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When I drive to my French home, it entails a drive of about 500 miles.
For much of that time I drive past vast areas of cereals - maize, wheat, sorghum, alfalfa. My routes seldom take me past significant numbers of farms raising animals. I cross the vast plain, between Paris and the Loire, called La Beauce. I see endless areas of cereal - no hedges. Anywhere where the terrain is reasonably flat I see the same few crops.
These crops are not being grown to feed people, they are being grown to be turned into cattle feed. I do not know the precise percentages, but I get the impression that - perhaps - 20% of France is for animals, and 80% is for animal feed. Animals are reared intensively, animal feed is grown extensively.
I admit and I accept that I am a carnivore and that I like meat products - but I do feel that there is something wrong with the balance of agriculture. I am sure that we all could enjoy a more varied diet with a greater proportion of vegetables, but suspect that the way in which land is used and the food that we eat is available is mainly determined some strange economic model which values animal feed more than human needs.
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Zzzzz! Bacon butties all round.
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If I could make a suggestion Sriram. I agree that most of us eat more meat than is probably good for us and that does put a tremendous strain on agricultural land, however the majority of people are not going to give up meat totally. Maybe it would be better for us and the environment (and more realistic) if we could get a movement going for 'meat free days' ?
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That sounds like a very good idea, NS. It would certainly make a difference to the environment and be generally healthier. I'm committed already (& I quite like meat).
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Perhaps we can start with domestic pets ......... http://edition.cnn.com/2011/LIVING/03/26/dog.hybrid.mnn/
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If I could make a suggestion Sriram. I agree that most of us eat more meat than is probably good for us and that does put a tremendous strain on agricultural land, however the majority of people are not going to give up meat totally. Maybe it would be better for us and the environment (and more realistic) if we could get a movement going for 'meat free days' ?
Yeah...meat free days, meat free meals, meat free outings. Lots of thinks people can think of.
In India for example....most meat eaters do not eat meat for breakfast, on certain days of the week, holy festival days, snacks and so on. Red meat is also normally avoided. Beef is forbidden, pork is rare, mutton is fairly common. Chicken & fish seem to be the favorite.
Also, meat dishes are almost never the main course. They are usually side dishes eaten with rice or chappatis.
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Perhaps we can start with domestic pets ......... http://edition.cnn.com/2011/LIVING/03/26/dog.hybrid.mnn/
Nooooo!!!!!!
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As I understand it, the 'benefits' of a meat-free diet are still open to debate. I am a carnivore, yes, but I'd probablycategorise myself as more of an omnivore than anything - especially as I have very few teeth left in my head and I have always found eating meat an effort. I will happily opt for a vegetarian meal if we go out for a meal, but still enjoy my meat. Rather than doing away with meat completely, the western worl need to understand the 'all things in moderation' maxim in this area - as with so many others.
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That's sensible, Hope; it is more or less what NS and I proposed, meat free days etc.
Not difficult for me, I only eat meat, poultry or fish when my husband is home and he works away four days a week.
When he retires properly we'll have to address the subject more vigorously.
Certainly, not having red meat very often is better for my digestion.
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Rather than doing away with meat completely, the western worl need to understand the 'all things in moderation' maxim in this area - as with so many others.
I'm not sure those being eaten would agree this maxim. If I were a sheep, I wouldn't say, OK, eat me just a little bit then, that's fair enough ;) We humans have a nasty habit of thinking as if everything revolved around us and our needs.
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I think all this fits in very well with the idea of spiritual development (being civilized). We can see that we are moving towards more humane, secular and universal thinking. Beliefs in gods not being very important.....and oddly enough, some religious people being more cruel and non empathetic than atheists.
Just 50-60 years ago I don't think such a positive view of vegetarianism would have been possible in the west. Most Indians were regarded as cranks for being vegetarians. It was considered as something odd and quirky. 'Vegetarian...rrreally?!!...Hmmm...how interesting!!' :D Even most Anglo-Indians, born and brought up in India, would behave like that. I know...I have faced it!
I am glad things are changing. :)
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There are potential dangers with strict vegetarian and vegan diets.
A friend of mine's daughter went on a vegan diet, basically to support her son who had become a vegan. After about a year she became very ill and urgent tests revealed that she was highly anaemic and was suffering from bone loss. It turned out that her son was taking supplements but had omitted to mention this to his mother!
Veganism is obviously more extreme that vegetarianism, but you still need to be careful.
Personally I prefer a mixed diet.
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Dear Sriram and Ekim,
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/LIVING/03/26/dog.hybrid.mnn/
Two very interesting articles, which sent me off on a little voyage of discovery, reducing our greenhouse gas emissions is a very complicated business, I would never have thought of putting the humble dog owner into the equation :o Or the fact that buying something as simple as flea powder can pose cancer risks to our kids :o
One very startling fact I found out, McDonalds just here in the UK Slaughter around 400,000 cattle a year, which to me means that in trying to reduce our carbon footprint we are up against big business, it also means you also have to factor in mans greed.
On a personal level I have been thinking for quite a while about my meat consumption, this was after reading posts from two of our members who are committed vegetarians ( Shaker and Rhiannon, come back soon ;) ) so I have been eating more pasta, but even then my favourite dish is Macaroni cheese ( milk and cheese ) so I might in a small way be reducing my meat consumption but only swapping one cow product for another :o
Less meat but doing nothing to reduce my carbon footprint, oh well! baby steps ::)
Gonnagle.
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Make sure the milk and cheese are organic, Gonnagle, at least the cows have a decent life and newborn calves aren't taken away from their mothers as soon as they are born; it's far more humane than the old way.
Free range eggs too.
Gluten free pasta (made from rice), is far better for the digestive system than anything wheat based, it tastes OK when covered with a sauce.
It is possible to be vegan and still consume sufficient calcium, magnesium and Vitamin D to avoid bone loss without supplements but it takes a lot of research and work. Just eating fruit and veg is not enough, the variety and balance have to be just right. I researched it some time ago and felt it was far too difficult for me as well as being rather extreme - but it is achievable. Vegetarianism is easier and personally I can't see anything wrong with cows sharing their milk with us as long as they are well looked after. Nothing is perfect of course.
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There are potential dangers with strict vegetarian and vegan diets.
A friend of mine's daughter went on a vegan diet, basically to support her son who had become a vegan. After about a year she became very ill and urgent tests revealed that she was highly anaemic and was suffering from bone loss. It turned out that her son was taking supplements but had omitted to mention this to his mother!
Veganism is obviously more extreme that vegetarianism, but you still need to be careful.
Personally I prefer a mixed diet.
Its all a question of what your system is adapted to. People around the world have such varied diets that having one standard norm is impossible.
If people have been eating meat through the centuries then their body may have a problem extracting protein and other nutrients from other foods. If people have maintained a veg diet for centuries, their body is adapted to it and will be able to extract sufficient nutrients from the food taken. So...if people want to become vegetarians...it may take a few generations before their system adapts. Its better to have a mix initially.
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I think all this fits in very well with the idea of spiritual development (being civilized).
Unfortunately, civilisation is the problem
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There's a programme on BBC1 tonight at 9pm entitled 'The truth about meat' which might be interesting.
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Dear Sriram and Ekim,
Less meat but doing nothing to reduce my carbon footprint, oh well! baby steps ::)
Gonnagle.
Hi Gonnagle
These might interest you ? depress you!
This one indicates the problem .... http://www.overshootday.org/newsroom/infographics/
This one, amongst other things, illustrates the livestock butchery frequency as it happens ..... http://www.poodwaddle.com/worldclock/soc/
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Hi Everyone,
Here is an article from BBC on vegetarianism
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian
**********
People become vegetarians for a variety of reasons. Some do it to alleviate animal suffering, others because they want to pursue a healthier lifestyle. Still others are fans of sustainability or wish to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
No matter how much their carnivorous friends might deny it, vegetarians have a point: cutting out meat delivers multiple benefits. And the more who make the switch, the more those perks would manifest on a global scale.
In the US, for example, an average family of four emits more greenhouse gases because of the meat they eat than from driving two cars – but it is cars, not steaks, that regularly come up in discussions about global warming.
“Most people don’t think of the consequences of food on climate change,” says Tim Benton, a food security expert at the University of Leeds. “But just eating a little less meat right now might make things a whole lot better for our children and grandchildren.”
The results indicate that – largely thanks to the elimination of red meat – food-related emissions would drop by about 60%. If the world went vegan instead, emissions declines would be around 70%.
Should we all go vegetarian, ideally we would dedicate at least 80% of that pastureland to the restoration of grasslands and forests, which would capture carbon and further alleviate climate change. Converting former pastures to native habitats would likely also be a boon to biodiversity, including for large herbivores such as buffalo that were pushed out for cattle, as well as for predators like wolves that are often killed in retaliation for attacking livestock.
The remaining 10 to 20% of former pastureland could be used for growing more crops to fill gaps in the food supply.
Springmann’s computer model study showed that, should everyone go vegetarian by 2050, we would see a global mortality reduction of 6-10%, thanks to a lessening of coronary heart disease, diabetes, stroke and some cancers. Eliminating red meat accounts for half of that decline, while the remaining benefits are thanks to scaling back the number of calories people consume and increasing the amount of fruit and vegetables they eat. A worldwide vegan diet would further amplify these benefits: vegetarianism staves off about 7 million deaths per year, while veganism knocks that estimate up to 8 million. Fewer people suffering from food-related chronic illnesses would also mean a reduction in medical bills, saving about 2-3% of global gross domestic product.
One study found that simply conforming to the World Health Organization’s dietary recommendations would bring the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions down by 17% – a figure that would drop by an additional 40% should citizens further avoid animal products and processed snacks. “These are dietary changes that consumers would barely notice, like having a just-slightly-smaller piece of meat,” Jarvis says. “It’s not this either-or, vegetarian-or-carnivore scenario.”
**********
As given above, I think most meat eaters could try to reduce their meat consumption somewhat. This would itself have benefits.
I know some Christians and Muslims think that meat eating is a religious duty of some kind....but even they could reduce meat eating. Its good for the planet and for the individual.
Cheers.
Sriram
Getting rid of cows altogether might help.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/10/cow-methane-reduction-california-dairy-industry
Just existing they cause the pollution.
Would you be in favour of getting rid of the cattle, Sriram?
Because eating them is only part of the problem.
Cattle produce large quantities of methane, whether we eat them or not.
If you don't cut the numbers of cattle, it won't make much difference.