Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on October 02, 2016, 07:47:38 AM
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Hi everyone,
Today is Mahatma Gandhi's birthday...celebrated as Gandhi Jayanti in India. He is regarded as the Father of the Nation and was the inspiration and leader who guided millions of Indians over more than 30 years towards a non violent struggle for Independence from British rule. He led millions of uneducated Indians across class, caste, religion and region to make sacrifices and take up a bold stand against British rule.
He is not seen just as a political leader but as a saint and moral guide on non violence, truthfulness and simplicity.
He nevertheless had great respect for the British and was foremost in supporting the British during the World War (right in the middle of the fight for independence). Millions of Indian soldiers died in the War fighting for the British Empire, while still demanding freedom for their country.
Gandhi did not believe that the End justified the Means. The Means we employ are as important as the End.
Albert Einstein once said of him... "Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this ever in flesh and blood walked upon this earth".
Here is a link to the Oscar winning film 'Gandhi' made by Sir Richard Attenborough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elGNe56QIXI
Please watch it fully.
Cheers.
Sriram
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Namaste Sriram bhaiya !!!
A most wonderful character & forever in Indian, nay WORLD history !!! 8)
Does make one wonder how the British came into 'control' of India in the first place & has it been worth it all, in the end - na ?????? ???
Nick
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Namaste Sriram bhaiya !!!
A most wonderful character & forever in Indian, nay WORLD history !!! 8)
Does make one wonder how the British came into 'control' of India in the first place & has it been worth it all, in the end - na ?????? ???
Nick
Namaste Nickji! Hope you are well.
I believe in destiny and most of our selfish intentions are used by destiny (God?) for some purpose in the long run.
For example, the British conquered some parts of the world, set up trading companies in other places and finally took over the country. It was all done for selfish economic & military reasons...but it resulted in integrating and uniting the world under one common language and culture. Destiny works in mysterious ways.
But for British rule, India itself may not have been one nation. It would probably have been several independent princely states. Technology and common infrastructure such as the railways, roads, postal system, electricity grid etc. were planned and set up by the Britiish for their own selfish purposes, which nevertheless helped India a lot.
The British Empire has also helped in globalization and in creating an international common culture. So it all worked out well in the final analysis.
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He nevertheless had great respect for the British and was foremost in supporting the British during the World War (right in the middle of the fight for independence). Millions of Indian soldiers died in the War fighting for the British Empire, while still demanding freedom for their country.
Hi Sriram, I'm with you on most of your post, except for the 'millions of Indian soldiers died' bit.
I would have thought that tens of thousands would have been more accurate?
Where did you get your figures from?
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Seb - Come on, this is India !!! ;) :)
Sriram bhai - Totally agree. Many I chat with IN India, yes I've been soooooo many times now it's my 2nd home, say it was the British who 'united' India in a common language ie ENGLISH as India is a continent with so many differing ways of doing things. Each state can have several different languages in it !!!! Wonderful !!!
Nick
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Hi Sriram, I'm with you on most of your post, except for the 'millions of Indian soldiers died' bit.
I would have thought that tens of thousands would have been more accurate?
Where did you get your figures from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_in_World_War_II
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At the height of the World War, more than 2.5 million Indian troops were fighting Axis forces around the globe.[8]
"In 1939 the Indian Army numbered 205,000 men. It took in volunteers and by 1945 was the largest all-volunteer force in history, rising to over 2.5 million men.[13] These forces included tank, artillery and airborne forces. Indian soldiers earned 30 Victoria Crosses during World War II."
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And from here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Army_during_World_War_II
World War II cost the lives of over 87,000 soldiers, air crews and mariners from the Indian Empire,[98] This included 24,338 killed and 11,754 missing in action.[131] the overwhelming majority being members of the Indian Army. Another 34,354 more were wounded,[98]
So, millions fought and tens of thousands died.
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And from here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Army_during_World_War_II
So, millions fought and tens of thousands died.
Yeah....fair enough. Millions fought and about 87000 died. Sorry about that.
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One of my icons, wonderful man. I've seen the film a few times Sririam, my favourite film of all time. When it was first shown I remember a lot of Indian people saying, "That was not the Gandhi we knew"; fair enough I suppose (they weren't being negative about the Mahatma, just saying he wasn't quite like he was portrayed in the film). It was still a great film and from what I read, historically accurate and captured the mood of the time.
When I was younger, and more fanciful, I used to say I looked forward to meeting Mahatma Gandhi one day in Heaven :).
There is a Mahatma Gandhi Hall in central London. Now a youth hostel, when I was a teenager it was a well known meeting place for people involved in the peace movement. There were lectures and groups would often assemble there before commencing a peace march.
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Yeah....fair enough. Millions fought and about 87000 died. Sorry about that.
cheers. That was what was puzzling me about your original statement. :)
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Namaste Nickji! Hope you are well.
I believe in destiny and most of our selfish intentions are used by destiny (God?) for some purpose in the long run.
For example, the British conquered some parts of the world, set up trading companies in other places and finally took over the country. It was all done for selfish economic & military reasons...but it resulted in integrating and uniting the world under one common language and culture. Destiny works in mysterious ways.
But for British rule, India itself may not have been one nation. It would probably have been several independent princely states. Technology and common infrastructure such as the railways, roads, postal system, electricity grid etc. were planned and set up by the Britiish for their own selfish purposes, which nevertheless helped India a lot.
The British Empire has also helped in globalization and in creating an international common culture. So it all worked out well in the final analysis.
You think globalization is a good thing? And a common culture?
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You think globalization is a good thing? And a common culture?
Integration is always a good thing. At least language and lifestyle will not be barriers to people coming together.
It has its share of problems, of course....but the problems stemming from language and cultural barriers are much more.
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You think globalization is a good thing? And a common culture?
If you think globalisation is a bad thing Jack, you definitely backed the wrong side in the referendum. Brexit is likely to result in a great many British jobs being exported, while those 'evil capitalist' that you despise so much will be having a good laugh at all the silly sods who voted for Leave!
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Integration is always a good thing. At least language and lifestyle will not be barriers to people coming together.
It has its share of problems, of course....but the problems stemming from language and cultural barriers are much more.
I am of course not talking about politics, Govt structures and a federal arrangement or anything of that sort. I am just referring to communication and a sense of mutual respect.
Even the fact that some of us here are talking to each other from different continents is an example of the benefits and positive aspects of this common language and culture. 100 years ago it was unthinkable.
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I don't see Ghandi as a saint.
I think he was just a bit too pacifist for me.
Not everyone sees him in a positive light, although he is a leading figure for peace.
If he had been talking about my relatives being killed and about being cheerful about it, I don't think I'd have seen eye to eye with him.
http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/india/the-little-known-dark-side-of-gandhi/
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I don't see Ghandi as a saint.
I think he was just a bit too pacifist for me.
Not everyone sees him in a positive light, although he is a leading figure for peace.
If he had been talking about my relatives being killed and about being cheerful about it, I don't think I'd have seen eye to eye with him.
http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/india/the-little-known-dark-side-of-gandhi/
Say something positive about anyone....Gandhi, St.Teresa, Jesus, Mandela, Buddha, Mohammad...etc., and someone will point out all the terrible terrible things that they did!
Its obviously good to take a balanced view of everyone...no doubt...but the need to put down people who have great name and influence seems to be innate in humans. Some kind of an envy and inadequacy in oneself...that makes us point out all the negative things...and derive consolation.
We should guard against this tendency becoming a habit.
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Say something positive about anyone....Gandhi, St.Teresa, Jesus, Mandela, Buddha, Mohammad...etc., and someone will point out all the terrible terrible things that they did!
Its obviously good to take a balanced view of everyone...no doubt...but the need to put down people who have great name and influence seems to be innate in humans. Some kind of an envy and inadequacy in oneself...that makes us point out all the negative things...and derive consolation.
We should guard against this tendency becoming a habit.
I don't really agree with putting people on a pedestal, Sriram.
I'm sure like most people Ghandi said and did, good and bad things.
I don't accept something just because the person saying it is Gandhi, St.Teresa, Jesus, Mandela, Buddha, Mohammad...etc
I'm not a follower, of anyone really.
Some people have a tendancy to follow these people no matter what idiocy they come out with.
I don't think anyone, no matter how " saintly" should be above criticism.
To many people semi worship their heroes.
IMO "heroes" are still human beings and Mohammed, Ghandi and the rest can be just as wrong as anyone else.
I don't believe in doing the idol worship bit, and I am intent on making the tendancy a habit.
That's because I believe it is wrong to elevate other human beings in that way.
I think the right path is to keep your critical tendencies, not surrender them to the idea someone else has some ultimate wisdom that overrules your own.
That's the tendancy to be wary of IMO, becoming a sheep.
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I am not even talking about hero worship. I am just talking about acknowledging that the person is greater than we are and that we cannot possibly achieve or do those things that he/she has done. Hurriedly pointing out the negatives of the person is a Ego position that becomes judgmental.
Hero worship is a Stage 1 (childish position). Judgmental criticism is a Stage 2 (adolescent) position. I am talking about trying to take a Stage 3 (mature) position.
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I am not even talking about hero worship. I am just talking about acknowledging that the person is greater than we are and that we cannot possibly achieve or do those things that he/she has done. Hurriedly pointing out the negatives of the person is a Ego position that becomes judgmental.
Hero worship is a Stage 1 (childish position). Judgmental criticism is a Stage 2 (adolescent) position. I am talking about trying to take a Stage 3 (mature) position.
You can't see it, in yourself. ;)
Just by saying that "acknowledging that the person is greater than we are and that we cannot possibly achieve or do those things that he/she has done. " you are lifting that person up and making them larger than life.
The next step is to stop being critical of their other ideas.
I'd disagree that " any person is greater than we are and that we cannot possibly achieve or do those things that he/she has done. "
We are ALL capable of what someone else has done, they get the credit for having done so, it's true.
They deserve that, but only that.
They are not divine and do not belong on a pedestal.
If they drank horse wee, it doesn't mean you need to.
It sounds silly, but some people do. Example : Mohammed believed it, so it must be true.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Camel_Urine_and_Islam
Thinking they have done something no other person can, is lifting them up, while finding an easy out for yourself.
The mature position is to recognise this, IMO and while recognising what they have done, also being aware they are no different to any other human being on the planet, warts and all.
They are not unique, other than we are all unique.
There is nothing one human being has done, that couldn't have been done by another, given the same opportunities or willingness.
Everyone, in existence is capable of much more than they think possible.
Give credit to actions by all means, I'm not against that, it's good for inspirational actions to inspire.
I'm against thinking somehow that person is above us, they are not.
Jimmy Saville is a good example of someone who did good things, who was revered, and people didn't like to challenge him.
Look at the fall he got from his pedestal.
Putting people on pedestals does away with our ability to see their faults, and everyone has faults.
A lot of faults don't hurt others, but some do.
Believing someone is above us in some way, can leave others vunerable, because we become blind.
IMO anyway.
The idea of a Guru doesn't appeal, no human being has all wisdom.
Some are wise in some respects but not in others and I believe you have to sort things out for yourself.
I'm sort of anti guru, Sriram.
:)
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Mohammed was NOT a perfect human being ?!!?!?!?
DEATH to the infidel !!! LOL
Only kidding Of Course !!!
Nick
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Dear Rose,
What are you wittering on about, great heroes of our past and present are pointers to what we can achieve, and depending on the type of person you are, you can put them on a pedestal or indeed even worship.
Saying like, The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
and, Standing on Giants Shoulders
come to mind, Gandhi's life is a real inspiration.
The life's of men like Gandhi should be celebrated, our kids should be reminded of what Great men and women can achieve by peaceful protest, in fact I would go so far and say, the life of Gandhi should be on the national curriculum, ask our kids if they know of anyone in their community who espouses the standards that Gandhi lived by.
I put Gandhi on a pedestal, a man who changed the course of history.
The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.
Mahatma Gandhi
Mark 42 - 45
42 So Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. 43 But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first among you must be the slave of everyone else. 45 For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Was Gandhi a good Christian! Well he gets my vote ;)
Gonnagle.
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Dear Rose,
What are you wittering on about, great heroes of our past and present are pointers to what we can achieve, and depending on the type of person you are, you can put them on a pedestal or indeed even worship.
Saying like, and,
come to mind, Gandhi's life is a real inspiration.
The life's of men like Gandhi should be celebrated, our kids should be reminded of what Great men and women can achieve by peaceful protest, in fact I would go so far and say, the life of Gandhi should be on the national curriculum, ask our kids if they know of anyone in their community who espouses the standards that Gandhi lived by.
I put Gandhi on a pedestal, a man who changed the course of history.
Mahatma Gandhi
Mark 42 - 45
Was Gandhi a good Christian! Well he gets my vote ;)
Gonnagle.
I'm not saying " don't admire the good things they do or say" just don't accept everything else they do and say, without criticism.
:)
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Mohammed was NOT a perfect human being ?!!?!?!?
DEATH to the infidel !!! LOL
Only kidding Of Course !!!
Nick
You are only kidding Nick, but unfortunately some people think Mohammed was perfect and will kill anyone who says he wasn't.
Even another Muslim.
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Nobody has said Gandhi was perfect. He was human and made mistakes. The Attenborough film sanitised him (if that is the right word), but people who knew him, and loved him, were aware of his faults which are also well documented in writing.
Personally I like people who show humanity and flaws and that is why I think Gandhi was great, warts and all.
What I hate is when someone is put on a pedestal, then makes a mistake and all his/her previous supporters are down on him like a ton of bricks. Totally unfair.
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You can't see it, in yourself. ;)
Just by saying that "acknowledging that the person is greater than we are and that we cannot possibly achieve or do those things that he/she has done. " you are lifting that person up and making them larger than life.
The next step is to stop being critical of their other ideas.
I'd disagree that " any person is greater than we are and that we cannot possibly achieve or do those things that he/she has done. "
We are ALL capable of what someone else has done, they get the credit for having done so, it's true.
They deserve that, but only that.
They are not divine and do not belong on a pedestal.
If they drank horse wee, it doesn't mean you need to.
It sounds silly, but some people do. Example : Mohammed believed it, so it must be true.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Camel_Urine_and_Islam
Thinking they have done something no other person can, is lifting them up, while finding an easy out for yourself.
The mature position is to recognise this, IMO and while recognising what they have done, also being aware they are no different to any other human being on the planet, warts and all.
They are not unique, other than we are all unique.
There is nothing one human being has done, that couldn't have been done by another, given the same opportunities or willingness.
Everyone, in existence is capable of much more than they think possible.
Give credit to actions by all means, I'm not against that, it's good for inspirational actions to inspire.
I'm against thinking somehow that person is above us, they are not.
Jimmy Saville is a good example of someone who did good things, who was revered, and people didn't like to challenge him.
Look at the fall he got from his pedestal.
Putting people on pedestals does away with our ability to see their faults, and everyone has faults.
A lot of faults don't hurt others, but some do.
Believing someone is above us in some way, can leave others vunerable, because we become blind.
IMO anyway.
The idea of a Guru doesn't appeal, no human being has all wisdom.
Some are wise in some respects but not in others and I believe you have to sort things out for yourself.
I'm sort of anti guru, Sriram.
:)
No one is perfect...we all know that. But claiming that anyone of us can calmly stand up to charging horses or that anyone of us can pick up lepers from the streets and care for them personally.....is a little too much!!
There are truly great men and women in this world ...and always have been. Recognizing their greatness inspires us also to great thoughts and deeds. It is not hero worship.
If every time some such great person is mentioned, someone starts listing out their imperfections, it shows a habitual tendency towards cynicism. That is not healthy.
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No one is perfect...we all know that. But claiming that anyone of us can calmly stand up to charging horses or that anyone of us can pick up lepers from the streets and care for them personally.....is a little too much!!
There are truly great men and women in this world ...and always have been. Recognizing their greatness inspires us also to great thoughts and deeds. It is not hero worship.
If every time some such great person is mentioned, someone starts listing out their imperfections, it shows a habitual tendency towards cynicism. That is not healthy.
I admire some of the things he did.
It's the "recognising their greatness" I take issue with.
What they did was great, but making them into " great people" kind of implies they are beyond criticism.
Being cynical is healthy, in as much as you can recognise a great deed or deeds without getting sucked into the surrounding cult around the persons " Greatness".
Any one of us could pick up lepers from the streets, if we chose too.
We don't on the whole, which is what makes someone else's act great.
Is there something special in calmly standing in front of charging horses? Sounds suicidal to me.
People are always doing things like lying down in the road to stop shootings and protest, or save trees.
Which I imagine is the modern version of calmly standing in front of charging horses.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/05/black-lives-matter-protest-blocks-heathrow-airport-traffic/
https://weresist.org/2016/08/27/activists-lying-down-in-road-to-protest-poor-treatment-of-trans-prisoners/
http://www.thenational.scot/news/glasgow-pensioner-brian-quail-stops-nuclear-warhead-convoy-by-lying-down-in-the-road.14935
Are they all " great" ?
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Well....never mind!! :)
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Dear Rose,
Three interesting links, I wonder where they all learned the power of peaceful protest, I wonder where Brian got the idea to stop that convoy.
MEET Brian, the 77-year-old Glasgow pensioner who can stop powerful 100 kiloton nuclear warheads using nothing but a pedestrian crossing.
I wonder if you will admit that Gandhi's place in India's history is justified, I wonder if you will admit that Gandhi's place in British, nay World history is justified, I wonder if you will admit that teaching about Gandhi's life in schools is vitally important, given the world they are inheriting is full of terrorism acts and fake heroes that the X factor churn out.
I wonder ( my mind is full of wonder 8) ) if you will admit that you are wrong.
Gonnagle.
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Hi Sriram, I'm with you on most of your post, except for the 'millions of Indian soldiers died' bit.
I would have thought that tens of thousands would have been more accurate?
Where did you get your figures from?
According to wikipedia, 87000 Indian soldiers died in the 2nd World War, but between 1.5 and 2.5 million Indians died from war-related causes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties So whilst Sri does exaggerate the military death-toll, he isn't too far off the overall death-toll.
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Have watched the flm several times, including in a cinema in South India in 1983 or 4. Possibly the most powerful viewing, but also the most frightening. Not sure where the break between reels was here in the UK - but over there it came *immediately* after the Amritsar massacre. My wife and I were sitting in one of the front-est rows, and were the only white folk in the auditorium at the time as far as we could tell. As everything paused, we slowly slid down our chairs. If we hadn't been known in the place - my wife was the nurse of the school we were working in and was therefore responsible for the health not only of the ex-pats, but all the local staff and their families - I'm not sure what would have happened.
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If you think globalisation is a bad thing Jack, you definitely backed the wrong side in the referendum. Brexit is likely to result in a great many British jobs being exported, while those 'evil capitalist' that you despise so much will be having a good laugh at all the silly sods who voted for Leave!
The EU are pro-globalization and big players in it. We freed ourselves from the 'Devil'!!!
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??? Well I don't follow that, Hope, but hope you enjoyed the film regardless of being a famous person locally :D. I certainly did, went to see it with a friend as soon as it was released. Quite locally too but I am not well known though doubtless there were others in the audience who knew me and I them. The film had an impact on me and I've seen it since on small screen.
It's good to have positive role models, historically and now, as long as we recognise they were/are are human beings. Thank God there are people in the world who are prepared to stick their necks out for a good cause, if they propelled onto the world stage it must be terribly difficult, for them and their families.
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I am of course not talking about politics, Govt structures and a federal arrangement or anything of that sort. I am just referring to communication and a sense of mutual respect.
Even the fact that some of us here are talking to each other from different continents is an example of the benefits and positive aspects of this common language and culture. 100 years ago it was unthinkable.
Two sides to every penny.
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Dear Rose,
Three interesting links, I wonder where they all learned the power of peaceful protest, I wonder where Brian got the idea to stop that convoy.
I wonder if you will admit that Gandhi's place in India's history is justified, I wonder if you will admit that Gandhi's place in British, nay World history is justified, I wonder if you will admit that teaching about Gandhi's life in schools is vitally important, given the world they are inheriting is full of terrorism acts and fake heroes that the X factor churn out.
I wonder ( my mind is full of wonder 8) ) if you will admit that you are wrong.
Gonnagle.
I'm wrong because I don't put people on pedestals?
I have no issue with his cause or peaceful protest, I wasn trying to demonise him.
Just pointing out I'm not into hero worship and believing he was above everyone else as expressed by Sriram or that what he did couldn't hav been done by others.
Sometimes people do great things and don't even get reported let alone idolised.
Perhaps those people in the links worked out their own ideas of peaceful protest, after all people did that before Ghandi was born.
Ghandi didn't invent the peaceful protest.
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Two sides to every penny.
There are three sides to every penny.
If you can't get something simple as that right.......... ::)
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Have watched the flm several times, including in a cinema in South India in 1983 or 4. Possibly the most powerful viewing, but also the most frightening. Not sure where the break between reels was here in the UK - but over there it came *immediately* after the Amritsar massacre. My wife and I were sitting in one of the front-est rows, and were the only white folk in the auditorium at the time as far as we could tell. As everything paused, we slowly slid down our chairs. If we hadn't been known in the place - my wife was the nurse of the school we were working in and was therefore responsible for the health not only of the ex-pats, but all the local staff and their families - I'm not sure what would have happened.
I don't think anything would have happened Hope! There is no simmering anger against whites or the British or anything of that sort. There have been lots of whites living in India for decades and all of them are fine and very well treated.
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I've NEVER had any problems in India - the Indians seem to still look on us as friends ?!?!?
Typical fantastic Indian attitude - Shah Bash !!!
Nick
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I've NEVER had any problems in India - the Indians seem to still look on us as friends ?!?!?
Typical fantastic Indian attitude - Shah Bash !!!
Nick
I should think it's a very interesting country.
Very big and I expect very different culturally across the whole.
We only tend to get curries and standard dishes at many Indian restaurants in the UK, but I have this brilliant Indian cook book that has some wonderful recipes that are different to what we get as standard as Indian.
One day, I will have to visit, just to see some of it for myself.
:)
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The EU are pro-globalization and big players in it. We freed ourselves from the 'Devil'!!!
And what is going to stand between us and globalization in this new reality. The Tory party? The press? The UKIP party?
All of them devoted to the idea of globalization - even if they deny it.
And now standing alone we will be so much better placed to withstand the pressures that globalization brings ::)
You are indulging in delusional thinking.
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I should think it's a very interesting country.
Very big and I expect very different culturally across the whole.
We only tend to get curries and standard dishes at many Indian restaurants in the UK, but I have this brilliant Indian cook book that has some wonderful recipes that are different to what we get as standard as Indian.
One day, I will have to visit, just to see some of it for myself.
:)
You'll be surprised to know that in all my 63 years of living in India I have never eaten anything called 'curry'. I ate it (veg curry) at a balti restaurant in Farnborough for the first time.
In Tamil, 'Curry' means meat. Attu curry means goat meat, Mattu curry means cow meat, koli curry means chicken meat.
Many non-vegetarians in India cook meat in a spicy gravy to be eaten as an accompaniment with rice or chappatis. It is possible that because of this, any such spicy gravy got the general name of curry among the British.
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There are three sides to every penny.
If you can't get something simple as that right.......... ::)
That is not a side it is an edge. You semantic simpleton.
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And what is going to stand between us and globalization in this new reality. The Tory party? The press? The UKIP party?
All of them devoted to the idea of globalization - even if they deny it.
And now standing alone we will be so much better placed to withstand the pressures that globalization brings ::)
You are indulging in delusional thinking.
Have you not been aware of the turn in the tide in the political arena? Globalization only works if people allow it. If countries get together they can restrain it. The internet and robotics also is changing things.
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That is not a side it is an edge. You semantic simpleton.
A coin is a cylinder and technically has no sides but three faces. You cretinous ignoramus.
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A coin is a cylinder and technically has no sides but three faces. You cretinous ignoramus.
No it is not, it is a disc so it has an edge.
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Sriram bhaiya
Doesn't KHARI mean a spice of some kind???
Nick
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Have you not been aware of the turn in the tide in the political arena? Globalization only works if people allow it. If countries get together they can restrain it. The internet and robotics also is changing things.
There are pros and cons to globalisation. As an island population, we have long relied on the rest of the world (or at least parts of it) for our survival as a nation and as 'British' human beings. The problems arise when the means of such sustenance/raw materials become the property of a very small number of people/companies. Sadly, we as Brits are partially responsible for the development of this problem, and currently we are amongst the worse culprits of its continuation.
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If countries get together they can restrain it.
I am having trouble coping with the particular irony of that statement from Jack Knave.
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Sriram bhaiya
Doesn't KHARI mean a spice of some kind???
Nick
Not that I know of. Khari is a snack...a small puff pastry.
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I am having trouble coping with the particular irony of that statement from Jack Knave.
The people who lose out with globalization are the people, the masses. So if they vote in governments that work for them and not the big corporations and then these nations work together to stop this parasitical actions of those corporations then they win. The proto types of these governments have been seen in Greece etc. and Trump is feeding off this desire to stop the elites.
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You'll be surprised to know that in all my 63 years of living in India I have never eaten anything called 'curry'. I ate it (veg curry) at a balti restaurant in Farnborough for the first time.
In Tamil, 'Curry' means meat. Attu curry means goat meat, Mattu curry means cow meat, koli curry means chicken meat.
Many non-vegetarians in India cook meat in a spicy gravy to be eaten as an accompaniment with rice or chappatis. It is possible that because of this, any such spicy gravy got the general name of curry among the British.
I had heard that what passed for Indian in the uk didn't resemble any similarity to real Indian crusine
In India.
I would love to try real Indian food.
Any chance you could post one of your own favorites, in the recipe section?
🌹
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An old friend of mine who was Indian (well, come to think of it, still is I suppose), said the only place he would buy Indian food was Southall.
More southerly and somewhat downmarket compared to Southall, Plumstead is very good.
If you eat Indian food at a wedding or at someone's house, the food is much better than the average restaurant but similar to what you get at the above mentioned places.
We have takeaways from the 'Yak & Yeti', which serves Indian and Nepalese cuisine. They have three restaurants in various places in London and the food is excellent.
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Great post so far - I can honestly say, as a visitor to India for 3 months of each year visits, I never seen any family eat a curry the way 'we' do in the UK.
Each item is set out separately so one may choose what one eats.
Indian Restaurants IN India do, however, serve like we do here.
Nick
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I had heard that what passed for Indian in the uk didn't resemble any similarity to real Indian crusine
In India.
I would love to try real Indian food.
Any chance you could post one of your own favorites, in the recipe section?
🌹
I have lots of favourites from different regions of India.
For that matter, I also love thin crust Italian pizza with jalapenos, olives, sun dried tomatoes and capsicum. I also love spaghetti Aglio e Olio with grilled veggies, pieces of toasted garlic and lots of EV olive oil.
Here is a site on various cuisine (veg only) including Indian food that may be useful to you. You could surf through it and find lots of dishes of different kinds.
http://www.tarladalal.com/
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An old friend of mine who was Indian (well, come to think of it, still is I suppose), said the only place he would buy Indian food was Southall.
More southerly and somewhat downmarket compared to Southall, Plumstead is very good.
If you eat Indian food at a wedding or at someone's house, the food is much better than the average restaurant but similar to what you get at the above mentioned places.
We have takeaways from the 'Yak & Yeti', which serves Indian and Nepalese cuisine. They have three restaurants in various places in London and the food is excellent.
I have once eaten at an Indian restaurant in London (Regent street) called Veeraswamy's. It was an expensive place and said to be patronized by the rich and famous. It is one of the oldest Indian restaurants in the UK I think (1920's or so).
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The people who lose out with globalization are the people, the masses. So if they vote in governments that work for them and not the big corporations and then these nations work together to stop this parasitical actions of those corporations then they win. The proto types of these governments have been seen in Greece etc. and Trump is feeding off this desire to stop the elites.
Except of course Trump is very much of the elite. And for it.
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This is an interesting read, casting some light of Gandhi's nature, positive or negative aspects.
Gandhi's experiments with food (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Gandhis-experiments-with-food/articleshow/5083955.cms)
The word "curry" may have originated with the British in Madras (Chennai), the first large settlement, based on dishes made with "curry leaves"- "Karuveppilai" in Tamil. (http://simpleindianrecipes.com/herbs.aspx)
We, in Punjabi or Hindi, call the resulting mixture of butter (or ghee), herbs or spices and water in which vegetables etc are cooked "thari" or "thurri" - Sriram you must know the word? I guess this is "sauce" or "gravy" in English.
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Yes...the word 'curry' probably originated in Madras and as I said the Tamil word curry means meat.
Karuveppilai is usually used in making curry as a flavour enhancing herb. It also has many health benefits. It is most commonly used in making sambar, rasam, chutnies, bhajis and in most other South Indian dishes. It is the most common flavouring herb used in South India and rarely will any dish not contain karuveppilai. (I am not sure what Karuvei means, illai means leaf).
It probably came to be called 'curry leaves' in english because it was used in making curry....and because the British could not pronounce Karuveppilai (as usually happened). :D
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Yes...the word 'curry' probably originated in Madras and as I said the Tamil word curry means meat.
Karuveppilai is usually used in making curry as a flavour enhancing herb. It also has many health benefits. It is most commonly used in making sambar, rasam, chutnies, bhajis and in most other South Indian dishes. It is the most common flavouring herb used in South India and rarely will any dish not contain karuveppilai. (I am not sure what Karuvei means, illai means leaf).
It probably came to be called 'curry leaves' in english because it was used in making curry....and because the British could not pronounce Karuveppilai (as usually happened). :D
I did a little bit of research on the Karuveppillai name. I understand that it is actually Karu Veppailllai. Veppa illai is Neem leaf. Karu means dark.
So Karuveppillai means 'dark neem leaf'. Both Karuveppillai and neem leaf are said to have medicinal properties and are used extensively but neem leaf is lighter in colour, hence the 'dark' reference for Karuveppillai.
In the north, Karuveppillai is called 'Meeta neem' or sweet neem because the neem leaf is bitter. So the link of karuveppillai with neem leaf (veppa illai) is established.
The name 'curry leaf' is clearly a British legacy.
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Yes indeed, it's a variety of neem used in cooking Tamil meat dishes as you indicated.
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Yes indeed, it's a variety of neem used in cooking Tamil meat dishes as you indicated.
Yes...it is used extensively in the south not just by non-vegetarians. No home will be without it. We use it is sujbi, sambar, rasam etc. Every meal will have karuveppilai in some dish.
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I have lots of favourites from different regions of India.
For that matter, I also love thin crust Italian pizza with jalapenos, olives, sun dried tomatoes and capsicum. I also love spaghetti Aglio e Olio with grilled veggies, pieces of toasted garlic and lots of EV olive oil.
Here is a site on various cuisine (veg only) including Indian food that may be useful to you. You could surf through it and find lots of dishes of different kinds.
http://www.tarladalal.com/
👍🏻🍷🍾
Thanks :)