Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Keith Maitland on October 07, 2016, 01:35:23 AM

Title: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Keith Maitland on October 07, 2016, 01:35:23 AM
Last week in Navarra, Spain two bulls head butt each other then die instantly from brutal blow.

Watch here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fWhRB7ICY0
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Brownie on October 07, 2016, 03:06:41 AM
Poor things, honestly. :(

One way of looking at it is they had a 'happy' release, speedier certainly, they got away with it and for that I'm glad.

(Wonder what happened to all that beef?  In a meat eating culture it would be a crime to waste it especially as it comes from well fed, healthy bulls.)
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 07, 2016, 08:49:54 AM
But is that not part of what would be the normal agonistic behaviour of members of that species in the wild? (I don't mean dying.)

Perhaps the flat, smooth surface of the bull-ring enables the animals to run rather faster than would be possible in an uncultivated landscape. The force with which they collided would thus be greater that their skulls could withstand.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Anchorman on October 07, 2016, 09:04:14 AM
Were they ex officio members of UKIP?
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: jeremyp on October 07, 2016, 09:25:07 AM
But is that not part of what would be the normal agonistic behaviour of members of that species in the wild? (I don't mean dying.)
I think you'll find that nothing is more normal than dying.

As for the head butting, I don't know. I'd be surprised considering how easy it is for it to be fatal. If you are talking about the fights that males of various species have for mating rights, I'd expect them to use a less dangerous means e.g. locking horns (at low speed).

Quote
Perhaps the flat, smooth surface of the bull-ring enables the animals to run rather faster than would be possible in an uncultivated landscape. The force with which they collided would thus be greater that their skulls could withstand.
Don't forget that these animals are not found anywhere in the wild. They have had thousands of years of selective breeding by humans and so any adaptions that allowed them to survive such a collision might have atrophied.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Harrowby Hall on October 07, 2016, 10:33:10 AM
Quote
But is that not part of what would be the normal agonistic behaviour of members of that species in the wild? (I don't mean dying.)

Quote
I think you'll find that nothing is more normal than dying

That is as may be, but dying is not really agonistic!
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: floo on October 07, 2016, 10:38:54 AM
Bull fighting should be banned!
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: SusanDoris on October 07, 2016, 12:00:29 PM
Bull fighting should be banned!
Actually, I don't entirely agree with this. The banning of bullfighting will not mean that the bulls bred for the purpose will still be bred and allowed to live 'natural' lives. they simply wouldn't be bred. I don't know how the pattern of the bullfight could be changed to avoid inflicting deliberate and unnecessary cruelty on the animal, and someoneshould care for the bull until his next show time, but the skills of the matador and asistants - whose title I can't think of just at this moment- picadors? - are traditional. I don't know the answer of course, and I didn't click on the link, so I shall be interested in others' views.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: floo on October 07, 2016, 12:09:09 PM
Actually, I don't entirely agree with this. The banning of bullfighting will not mean that the bulls bred for the purpose will still be bred and allowed to live 'natural' lives. they simply wouldn't be bred. I don't know how the pattern of the bullfight could be changed to avoid inflicting deliberate and unnecessary cruelty on the animal, and someoneshould care for the bull until his next show time, but the skills of the matador and asistants - whose title I can't think of just at this moment- picadors? - are traditional. I don't know the answer of course, and I didn't click on the link, so I shall be interested in others' views.

Good they won't be bred!
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Brownie on October 07, 2016, 12:30:05 PM
But is that not part of what would be the normal agonistic behaviour of members of that species in the wild? (I don't mean dying.)

Perhaps the flat, smooth surface of the bull-ring enables the animals to run rather faster than would be possible in an uncultivated landscape. The force with which they collided would thus be greater that their skulls could withstand.

Yes I think you are right there HH.
I'm glad their death was sudden.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: jeremyp on October 07, 2016, 01:24:26 PM
Bull fighting should be banned!
I don't think this was a bullfight.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Free Willy on October 07, 2016, 06:12:19 PM
Last week in Navarra, Spain two bulls head butt each other then die instantly from brutal blow.

Watch here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fWhRB7ICY0
Now......if they had been British Humanist bulls they would have sat down and discussed their differences rationally.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Bubbles on October 07, 2016, 07:10:59 PM
Actually, I don't entirely agree with this. The banning of bullfighting will not mean that the bulls bred for the purpose will still be bred and allowed to live 'natural' lives. they simply wouldn't be bred. I don't know how the pattern of the bullfight could be changed to avoid inflicting deliberate and unnecessary cruelty on the animal, and someoneshould care for the bull until his next show time, but the skills of the matador and asistants - whose title I can't think of just at this moment- picadors? - are traditional. I don't know the answer of course, and I didn't click on the link, so I shall be interested in others' views.

They also do the "running of the bulls" through the streets.
It's insane !
https://youtu.be/J5pBuyclhEI

Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Bubbles on October 07, 2016, 07:19:27 PM
Although it's tempting to laugh

https://youtu.be/OPriH15rnkw

Talk about stripped off.  :-[

Hehe!
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Free Willy on October 08, 2016, 09:12:38 AM
Last week in Navarra, Spain two bulls head butt each other then die instantly from brutal blow.

Watch here.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fWhRB7ICY0
Thanks for sharing that with us.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Gonnagle on October 08, 2016, 09:18:55 AM
Dear Rose,

Insane is the right word, Bull fighting and the running of the Bull is barbaric, and yes as a meat eater I am being hypocritical, only when we learn to treat all living creatures with compassion will we truly evolve.

Wee Albert again,

Quote
Our task must be to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty.

Gonnagle.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Brownie on October 08, 2016, 01:20:28 PM
You are not being hypocritical, Gonners.  If an animal has a good life and is killed quickly and humanely, the scenario cannot be compared to bull fighting and running, or that business where an animal is dropped from a great height.  Ugh.  Similarly cock and dog fighting.  They may all be well looked after until the event but the manner of death and the immediate period before, is inhumane in the extreme.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: floo on October 08, 2016, 01:24:58 PM
Dear Rose,

Insane is the right word, Bull fighting and the running of the Bull is barbaric, and yes as a meat eater I am being hypocritical, only when we learn to treat all living creatures with compassion will we truly evolve.

Wee Albert again,

Gonnagle.

In my opinion there is a big difference between breeding an animal for the purpose of fighting, when it could die a prolonged and unpleasant unpleasant death, and  for human consumption when one hope it will be slaughtered as quickly and as painlessly as possible.
Title: Re: Two Bulls In Spain Head Butt Each Other Then Die Instantly From Brutal Blow
Post by: Brownie on October 08, 2016, 06:01:50 PM
I was thinking as I browsed the forum, musing, that the first four words of the title of this thread would be a good title for a "Never ending story" thread;  each contributer could add a sentence or a phrase, even a word if that was appropriate.

"Two Bulls in Spain"