Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Anchorman on November 04, 2016, 03:55:12 PM
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Trippymonkey raised a point on Owlswing's thread, so, rather than divert it, here's a link that might help for starters. http://celtic-spirituality.net/what-is-christian-celtic-spirituality/
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Trippymonkey raised a point on Owlswing's thread, so, rather than divert it, here's a link that might help for starters. http://celtic-spirituality.net/what-is-christian-celtic-spirituality/
What I've heard (and your link confirms) about Celtic Christianity is that it was considerably more appealing than the Roman version which eventually ousted it. All thanks to the other Augustine?
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What I've heard (and your link confirms) about Celtic Christianity is that it was considerably more appealing than the Roman version which eventually ousted it. All thanks to the other Augustine?
'Ousted' isn't a word I'd use, DU - at least not in these parts.
The Synod of Whitby had little effect in Scotland....even when Margaret (Malcolm Caen Mohr's wife) 'reformed' the Scottish church, all that really changed were the titles. Celtic 'cille' churches were still being built in the foourteenth century - at the same time as the great Scotto-Norman abbey churches at Melrose, Jedburgh, etc.
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'Ousted' isn't a word I'd use, DU - at least not in these parts.
The Synod of Whitby had little effect in Scotland....even when Margaret (Malcolm Caen Mohr's wife) 'reformed' the Scottish church, all that really changed were the titles. Celtic 'cille' churches were still being built in the foourteenth century - at the same time as the great Scotto-Norman abbey churches at Melrose, Jedburgh, etc.
Ah, well, the only manifestations of Celtic Christianity I see here in the SW are the self-effacing publications of the English branch down in Glastonbury, where it has to compete with all the other paraphernalia of the "Glastonbury Experience".
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Ah, well, the only manifestations of Celtic Christianity I see here in the SW are the self-effacing publications of the English branch down in Glastonbury, where it has to compete with all the other paraphernalia of the "Glastonbury Experience".
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Yuk!
The airy-fairy stuff isn't really much cop, DU.
The early Celtic monks and missionaries were mediators, travelling healers, vets, and preachers when they could fit in the time. For the most part they were married with kids as well, though a fair percentage were hermits.
Modern Celtic communities such as Iona modelled themselves on this idea.
When I was a more or less full member of the Iona Community, not only did I spend long periods on the island itself - and a more atmospheric place you'll find it hard to find; but I also spent six months doing voluntary work in a drug rehab safe house in Ayr.
The community is active in working with addicts, the homeless, prostitutes and asylum seekers among others.
Modern Celtic spirituality is a two pronged thing: work and worship.
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My middle daughter has just started a course on Celtic Spirituality, which she finds interesting.
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My middle daughter has just started a course on Celtic Spirituality, which she finds interesting.
As long as she realises that getting your hands dirty for God was part and parcel of the Celtic Christianity of Columba, Adomnan, etc.
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I've got a lot of time for the Iona Community and the work of John Bell.
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Yep. The airy fairy bunch will happily throw in chants and mystic references to the land - whilst the Iona community will work with 'the least, the last and the lost' without making a song and dance about it, but giving thanks for the chance to do so.
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Yep. The airy fairy bunch will happily throw in chants and mystic references to the land - whilst the Iona community will work with 'the least, the last and the lost' without making a song and dance about it, but giving thanks for the chance to do so.
Some of Christianity is airy fairy especially the crazy and very unpleasant 'saved' dogma.
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Make no bones about it, floo; We in the Iona Community declare that there is only oone Way of Salvation - through Christ alone. We also believe in putting the Gospel imperative to love in every circumstance into action.
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I think the 'green' element of Celtic spirituality can provide a home for Christians who need a more 'pagan' expression while staying true to their faith.
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I think the 'green' element of Celtic spirituality can provide a home for Christians who need a more 'pagan' expression while staying true to their faith.
An example of blatant spiritual imperialism?
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An example of blatant spiritual imperialism?
No.
Not unless you meant this:
Make no bones about it, floo; We in the Iona Community declare that there is only oone Way of Salvation - through Christ alone
which strikes me as pretty spiritually imperialistic.
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An example of blatant spiritual imperialism?
I should have expected that you'd find genuine Christians finding a way of expressing their heartfelt faith that is different to yours unpleasant. Why feel so threatened?
Or is it just ignorance on your part?
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I should have expected that you'd find genuine Christians finding a way of expressing their heartfelt faith that is different to yours unpleasant. Why feel so threatened?
Or is it just ignorance on your part?
It's your need to claim any green element in spirituality as ''Pagan'' that i'm commenting on.
You haven't a clue how I feel.
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No.
Not unless you meant this:
which strikes me as pretty spiritually imperialistic.
Not really since no other faith has a similar conception of salvation.
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Not really since no other faith has a similar conception of salvation.
yes but does it work and how do you know?
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yes but does it work and how do you know?
Since salvation begins when you become a Christian I would say yes and I can see the evidence in my life.
That isn't a claim to perfection........... quite the opposite to attitudes which logically boil down to self righteousness.
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Not really since no other faith has a similar conception of salvation.
What do you mean by similar?
The concept seem pretty identical in Islam, for instance. Islam is the only path to/of salvation etc.
In any case, your point is irrelevant since it doesn't actually dismiss the charge of spiritual imperialism. In fact, if anything, claiming that Christianity is unique (i.e. "no other faith has a similar conception of salvation") serves only to strengthen it.
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It's your need to claim any green element in spirituality as ''Pagan'' that i'm commenting on.
You haven't a clue how I feel.
Oh don't be an idiot. Look at the punctuation and see if that helps your comprehension.
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No.
Not unless you meant this:
which strikes me as pretty spiritually imperialistic.
- The Iona Community accepts the World Council of Churches definition of Christianity.
It exists - technically at least - under the auspices of the Church of Scotland, which, though recognising others belief systems, nevertheless asserts the Christian doctrine of the uniqueness of His claim.
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The Iona Community accepts the World Council of Churches definition of Christianity.
It exists - technically at least - under the auspices of the Church of Scotland, which, though recognising others belief systems, nevertheless asserts the Christian doctrine of the uniqueness of His claim.
Understood; but for those of us on the outside and apt to take a rather more critically sceptical line, I feel that the Mandy Rice-Davies defence applies :D
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Rice-Davies
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Hmmmmmmm.....given the nature of the Jirk, that might be somewhat aposite. Maybe if I stood up in Presbytery iand used it, they'd chuck me out (with any luck...)
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Not really since no other faith has a similar conception of salvation.
Good because it is a silly notion, especially those who believe in the 'once saved always saved garbage.' I can only think that one or two of the so called 'saved' on this forum subscribe to it, because they make the faith a laughing stock with their unpleasant posts! :o
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Good because it is a silly notion, especially those who believe in the 'once saved always saved garbage.' I can only think that one or two of the so called 'saved' on this forum subscribe to it, because they make the faith a laughing stock with their unpleasant posts! :o
I think it is a notion that hits home....and that shows either in religion or the retreat from it.
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I think it is a notion that hits home....and that shows either in religion or the retreat from it.
There's no retreat from "no reason to think that this is true," Vlad. Just the "no reason to think that this is true" bit. Your suspicion of deeper psychological motives (aka your pet theorem of "god-dodging", which has on your own evidence always seemed applicable only to you and nobody else) will of course continue to be hammered into the ground, but as baselessly and unevidenced as always, and therefore summarily dismissed.
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As a matter of interest, is "Celtic" even a thing? Were the pre-Roman communities in (what is now) England, Scotland Wales and Ireland all part of a single culture?
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There's no retreat from "no reason to think that this is true," Vlad. Just the "no reason to think that this is true" bit. Your suspicion of deeper psychological motives (aka your pet theorem of "god-dodging", which has on your own evidence always seemed applicable only to you and nobody else) will of course continue to be hammered into the ground, but as baselessly and unevidenced as always, and therefore summarily dismissed.
Of course there is reason. An ego will recoil at hearing it is not ultimately OK or good by way of reflex rather than consideration.
The heated response the very suggestion receives testifies to that.
People may bang on here about the equality of religions but the level of tolerance depends on how judgmental of the ego they are felt to be.
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Of course there is reason. An ego will recoil at hearing it is not ultimately OK or good by way of reflex rather than consideration.
The point you seem unable to grasp is that you can't be told you're not OK (or that you are, for that matter) by something fictitious.
The heated response the very suggestion receives testifies to that.
... and hot is cold, and black is white. Stay away from zebra crossings, Vladdychops.
People may bang on here about the equality of religions
Do they?
but the level of tolerance depends on how judgmental of the ego they are felt to be.
I'd have thought it depends how dickish they are. Christianity - dickish level: high, historically. Jainism - dickish level: low.
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There's something incredibly egotistical about someone who believes that their lack of ego makes them superior to others.
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There's something incredibly egotistical about someone who believes that their lack of ego makes them superior to others.
Incredibly hypocritical too, as in itself it's a sign of ego. The Dharmic religions have always been aware of this trap.
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There's something incredibly egotistical about someone who believes that their lack of ego makes them superior to others.
Not really because resistance to God is universal in that everybody experiences it at one point and/or another.
In any case contributing to this forum is mostly on the basis of some kind of felt superiority isn't it?
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Not really because resistance to God is universal in that everybody experiences it at one point and/or another.
Your evidence for this claim is ... what?
In any case contributing to this forum is mostly on the basis of some kind of felt superiority isn't it and one could argue that whereas a monotheist recognises power from God, a pagan, well
Gods (if they're polytheistic)?
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There's something incredibly egotistical about someone who believes that their lack of ego makes them superior to others.
Is it me being superior..........or you feeling inferior?
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Is it me being superior..........or you feeling inferior?
Pretty sure both states are entirely illusory, Vlad.
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Pretty sure both states are entirely illusory, Vlad.
First laugh out loud of the day.
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Pretty sure both states are entirely illusory, Vlad.
Yes Im sure Rhiannon would claim superiority.
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Yes Im sure Rhiannon would claim superiority.
Not difficult, Vlad.
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Not difficult, Vlad.
I can't go lower.......you win.
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Oh come on Vlad! I'm sure you can, if you try ;)