Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on December 14, 2016, 08:50:35 AM
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The chosen drink of the jakey
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38290379
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The chosen drink of the jakey
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-38290379
Don't go there!
I'm quite happy if Saturday nights are cold and damp.
Mainly because the amount of smashed glass against gravestones in the Kirkyard (owned by the local council) is reduced.
If it's been a dry Saturday night, the gravestones have assorted Buckie, red Bull, Vodka and similar adornments.....and a pungant odor of urine.
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Don't go there!
I'm quite happy if Saturday nights are cold and damp.
Mainly because the amount of smashed glass against gravestones in the Kirkyard (owned by the local council) is reduced.
If it's been a dry Saturday night, the gravestones have assorted Buckie, red Bull, Vodka and similar adornments.....and a pungant odor of urine.
And I'd imagine that a red wine wouldn't be at it's best at a low temperature.
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And I'd imagine that a red wine wouldn't be at it's best at a low temperature.
You may suppose that, but then you've never had one with a deep-fried Mars bar.
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You may suppose that, but then you've never had one with a deep-fried Mars bar.
I'd gladly bow to the expertise of a connoisseur.
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Buckfast wine has been being made since the 1920s. Has it'been associated with violence all that time? If the answer is 'yes', the monks should be asked to remove it from sale, or dramatically amend the recipe: if the answer is 'no', and this is just a short-term development, those abusing it ought to be re-educated in the use of alcohol.
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Buckfast wine has been being made since the 1920s. Has it'been associated with violence all that time? If the answer is 'yes', the monks should be asked to remove it from sale, or dramatically amend the recipe: if the answer is 'no', and this is just a short-term development, those abusing it ought to be re-educated in the use of alcohol.
Alcohol has been made for an awful lot longer than that.
Has it been ben assosicated with violence all that time?
If the answer is yes............should it be removed from sale or the recipe changed?
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'Buckie' started to appear on the radar in Scotland around the early eighties, Hope. The caffeine content of the stuff combined with the wine made for an instant 'hit' if drank quickly. The trend started in Lanarkshire, but spread rapidly. The General Assembly of the Church of Scotland respectfully asked the makers of the product to change the caffeine content - as early as 1989. Nowadays, the stuff is combined with Red Bull and Vodka to make a compound which makes the drinker instantly 'high'. We may joke about it, but it has become a very serious problem amongst teenagers, and a catalyst which has led to a distressing rise in vandalism and alcoholism. The General Assembly of 2003 sent a letter from the Church asking that the sale of the liquor be restricted here. The monks refused.
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Alcohol has been made for an awful lot longer than that.
Has it been ben assosicated with violence all that time?
If the answer is yes............should it be removed from sale or the recipe changed?
You've simply restated what I was saying, but in a more general way, Seb.
Rather than blaming the drink, which has been used for nigh on 100 years in certain parts of the UK, we need to look at the education we give young people as regards alcoholic drink. This has been the case for as long as I can remember - combined with the fact that modern beer and wine generally have a higher ABV than say 100 years ago, when the former - especially - was a means of to restore the iron- & steel-workers, the miners, and the others working in heavy industry. OK, do we actually need the strength of ABV that wew currently have? Probably not in the context of the poor education we give.
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'Buckie' started to appear on the radar in Scotland around the early eighties, Hope. The caffeine content of the stuff combined with the wine made for an instant 'hit' if drank quickly. The trend started in Lanarkshire, but spread rapidly. The General Assembly of the Church of Scotland respectfully asked the makers of the product to change the caffeine content - as early as 1989. Nowadays, the stuff is combined with Red Bull and Vodka to make a compound which makes the drinker instantly 'high'. We may joke about it, but it has become a very serious problem amongst teenagers, and a catalyst which has led to a distressing rise in vandalism and alcoholism. The General Assembly of 2003 sent a letter from the Church asking that the sale of the liquor be restricted here. The monks refused.
Hi Jim, I hadn't realised the nature of the problem in Scotland. I thought it was just a whinge by those who like to blame everything elsewhere. My apologies.
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I really wish it were only some tartan whinge, Hope. It isn't. We have a very severe problem with teenage substance abuse; the Buckfast cocktail set* is only one factor, I'm afraid. * A 'Buckyvoddy' - a mixture of Buckfast, vodka and red bull. The effects are distressingly obvious.
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You've simply restated what I was saying, but in a more general way, Seb.
Rather than blaming the drink, which has been used for nigh on 100 years ........
It was you who stated that if the drink (Buckfast) was causing problems then the monks should be asked to remove it from sale.
Are the monks to blame or the drink in that context?
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It was you who stated that if the drink (Buckfast) was causing problems then the monks should be asked to remove it from sale.
Are the monks to blame or the drink in that context?
I wasn't aware of the severity of the situation, Seb - until Jim explained in a previous post which I have now acknowledged. Perhaps we non-Scots ought to write to the monks and ask them to reconsider their unwillingness to adapt the recipe for stuff sold in Scotland. After all, they have done so - slightly - for the Republic of Ireland.
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I wasn't aware of the severity of the situation, Seb - until Jim explained in a previous post which I have now acknowledged. Perhaps we non-Scots ought to write to the monks and ask them to reconsider their unwillingness to adapt the recipe for stuff sold in Scotland. After all, they have done so - slightly - for the Republic of Ireland.
Personally I don't think it would make much difference. The problem drinkers will just fine a new cocktail, which might even be worse.
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Personally I don't think it would make much difference. The problem drinkers will just fine a new cocktail, which might even be worse.
I think the caffeine element being toned down might make a difference but overall this is a longstanding problem and Buckie is merely in a line of fortified drinks that have been used such as ElDorado and Lanliq.
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I think the caffeine element being toned down might make a difference
I think that an extra can of redbull would then just be added to the 'recipe'.
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I agree with Seb - the caffeine seems to exaggerate the effect of alchol - that's why the users - and that's what they are - add red bull to the Buckfast. The mix seems to make them more aggressive and combattive.
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I agree with Seb - the caffeine seems to exaggerate the effect of alchol - that's why the users - and that's what they are - add red bull to the Buckfast. The mix seems to make them more aggressive and combattive.
Have you tried it yourself and did it affect you as you describe . Are you talking from experience or what you 'think' the effects are?
this is a genuine question in an attempt to establish actual or perceived effects.
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Where do you get this stuff? I quite fancy giving it a try ... but not if it is very sweet!
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Nah.....I'm a single malt chap, myself! I did try a sip of Buckfast once - tasted like cough medicine - I couldn't see the point in the stuff. But, yes, I've seen the effects. The users pass by my house on a regular basis after having visited Tesco, obtained their 'fix' and sampled a few on the half mile walk back. On the way down, they're ordinary, if a tad loud, teens. Less than an hour later, avoiding them is the best policy. Not only is the abuse verbal, it can become physical as well - and acts of vandalism lie in their wake - such as 'keying' cars, smashing bus shelters, etc. As for the kirkyard, many gravestones have now been laid flat by the local authority - because the twits try to knock them over - and sometimes injure themselves in the process. They choose that area because there is a portion which is lower than the rest - well out of view from any street - where they can meet and drink - and defacate - as they please. 'Unpleasant' doesn't even start to cover it. As posted earlier, the kirkyard actually belongs to the council, but we try to keep it reasonably tidy. I've noted ten or twelve bottles of Bucky and assorted other ingredients which we lift to take out of harm's way, and that's a relitively mild Autumn - it can be worse in high summer. Were we not to remove the bottles, the numpties would simply smash them against the gravestones, making it a hazard for pedestrians and dog walkers.
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Dear Hope,
I wasn't aware of the severity of the situation, Seb - until Jim explained in a previous post which I have now acknowledged. Perhaps we non-Scots ought to write to the monks and ask them to reconsider their unwillingness to adapt the recipe for stuff sold in Scotland. After all, they have done so - slightly - for the Republic of Ireland.
Do you have a link, I can't find anything about it being altered for the Republic of Ireland.
And yes I do think the caffeine in buckfast makes a huge difference, but then maybe I am looking through rose tinted lenses, buckfast is a relatively new choice of the emmm! well lets say certain factions of the younger generation, about thirty years ago it was Eldorado or Lanlig and a couple of cans of special brew.
Buckfast could meet the powers that be halfway and stop using glass bottles, that would at least take a weapon out of the hands of the higher than a kite buckfast drinker.
I honestly don't see the fascination for the stuff, well except that it is cheap, it is the most sickly sweet taste, it reminds me of cough medicine I was given as a kid.
Gonnagle.
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You've definitely me off the idea then :)
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Anchorman
you have completely missed my point .
From what you say you can only assume its the Bucky that causes the problem, you can't talk as if its a fact.
Its this kind of supercilious sloppy thinking that really annoys me .
You could be right , of course but until you have done the experiment and evaluated the results it is foolish to make unsubstantiated conclusions no matter how much you dislike the antisocial behaviour.
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Dear Waltsing ma tilda,
Here is some facts for you.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/buckfast-crimewave-revealed-police-figures-1868308
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8464359.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25989700
One bottle equivalent to eight cans of cola :o :o
Gonnagle.
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Dear Waltsing ma tilda,
Here is some facts for you.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/buckfast-crimewave-revealed-police-figures-1868308
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8464359.stm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25989700
One bottle equivalent to eight cans of cola :o :o
Gonnagle.
I hate to break it to you They are not facts. They are only reports
That does not constitute scientific evidence
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Dear Wurlitzer,
Phil Hanlon, professor of public health at Glasgow University, told how mixing excessive amounts of alcohol and caffeine can have disastrous results.
He said: “Caffeine is an issue which involves accidents, taking risks you wouldn’t otherwise take and getting involved in violence or aggression. You get disinhibited with alcohol and if you add a central nervous system stimulant such as caffeine to that, it can make the likelihood of you getting involved in a misadventure while under the influence greater.”
Gonnagle.
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Dear Hope,
Do you have a link, I can't find anything about it being altered for the Republic of Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_Tonic_Wine#Versions
As I said, not by much!!
Buckfast are no longer allowed to sell the wine direct - it is distributed by 2 companies, one for the UK and the other for the Republic. Whether these companies also bottle it, I'm not sure. See the same overall link as above.
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I hate to break it to you They are not facts. They are only reports
That does not constitute scientific evidence
Good to see that you don't understand the difference, Walter.
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Good to see that you don't understand the difference, Walter.
eh?
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eh?
Well, they are reports that provide facts within them - something that is pretty common as regards reports. You obviously don't understand the differenvce between reports and facts - even thougfh these were media reports.
The first of the two BBC links actually starts off
New evidence linking Buckfast Tonic Wine to crime has been uncovered by a BBC Scotland investigation.
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Well, they are reports that provide facts within them - something that is pretty common as regards reports. You obviously don't understand the differenvce between reports and facts - even thougfh these were media reports.
The first of the two BBC links actually starts off
you really don't have a clue do you.