Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: jakswan on December 16, 2016, 01:09:04 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38315612
Thought so. :)
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I love the way they dare not change income tax too much except to take a pop at rich people.
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I love the way they dare not change income tax too much except to take a pop at rich people.
If that yapping little Nicola Krankie wants independence and become QUEEN OF SCOTLAND
I for one will not get in her way.
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You realise Jeanette Krankie is a Tory, a unionist and anti SNP? Therefore your nickname for the SNP leader is simply misguided. I first met her when we were campaigning in Dreghorn, Irvine in the mid '90's, when we knew we hadn't a hope. She was a teenage firebrand then - and she's still a firebrand now!
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You realise Jeanette Krankie is a Tory, a unionist and anti SNP? Therefore your nickname for the SNP leader is simply misguided. I first met her when we were campaigning in Dreghorn, Irvine in the mid '90's, when we knew we hadn't a hope. She was a teenage firebrand then - and she's still a firebrand now!
Jesus,
I wasn't talking about JEANETTE , I was having a humorous mental picture of JIMMIE KRANKIE as Nicola Fishperson
Also it was not an invitation for you to tell us all about your sanctimonious efforts as a supporter of the conservative party as if it were something to be proud of .
As far as I am concerned in light of what I have recently learnt of you , your judgment requires no more respect than that of a three year old.
And you were an adult canvassing grownups . We are in trouble .
Stay at home in future
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If that yapping little Nicola Krankie wants independence and become QUEEN OF SCOTLAND
I for one will not get in her way.
You have to give her credit wittering on about "Tory austerity" for years and when she gets powers to end austerity just carries on with tory tax rates. A good politician, what about your schools Nicola they ain't exactly "fan dabby dozy", what is that you want to talk about indyref2, nice deflection.
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You have to give her credit wittering on about "Tory austerity" for years and when she gets powers to end austerity just carries on with tory tax rates. A good politician, what about your schools Nicola they ain't exactly "fan dabby dozy", what is that you want to talk about indyref2, nice deflection.
as far as I can see she is simply a yapping woman insistent on getting what she wants by just keeping yapping
and yes I would say the same if it were a bloke.
however if I were her bloke I would have fucked off years ago
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as far as I can see she is simply a yapping woman insistent on getting what she wants by just keeping yapping
and yes I would say the same if it were a bloke.
however if I were her bloke I would have fucked off years ago
if there are an infinite number of parallel universes where everything possible happens, you and Nicola would never be a couple
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if there are an infinite number of parallel universes where everything possible happens, you and Nicola would never be a couple
there is a god !
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https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/ might explain why the very limited tax powers levered from the clutches of Wastemonster were not used, and why we need, at the very least, more devolution. Instead of a meagre 30% of tax being devolved, why not all tax revenue in Scotland. We will then pay London what we think they need - that means they'll get diddly squat for weapons of mass destruction in Scotland's waters for starters......
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There is nothing like a bit of reasoned debate......and this is nothing like a bit of reasoned debate.
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https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/ might explain why the very limited tax powers levered from the clutches of Wastemonster were not used, and why we need, at the very least, more devolution. Instead of a meagre 30% of tax being devolved, why not all tax revenue in Scotland. We will then pay London what we think they need - that means they'll get diddly squat for weapons of mass destruction in Scotland's waters for starters......
I thought it would be the fault of Westminster, so predictable. :)
I'd like this; rUk a vote on kicking Scotland out of the Union please.
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I thought it would be the fault of Westminster, so predictable. :)
rUk want a vote on kicking Scotland out of the Union please.
Do you want to try an argument against the points in the article?
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rUk want a vote on kicking Scotland out of the Union please.
Are you now the arbiter on what the rUK wants now Jakswan. Last time I looked you and I are both members of rUK, and I have no interest in such a vote. So you might want that vote, I don't and it is certainly not justified to claim the rUK does.
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Do you want to try an argument against the points in the article?
The excuses you mean? Not really its full of rhetoric and mad assertions. The fact is if the SNP want to end austerity they have the power to do so and have chosen not to. Scotland is inherently more left wing than rUK, so the SNP spin left their own centre right policies and when that looks like it is failing then place then play up the nationalistic fervour, apply a little more spin to blame not the English but Westminster.
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Are you now the arbiter on what the rUK wants now Jakswan. Last time I looked you and I are both members of rUK, and I have no interest in such a vote. So you might want that vote, I don't and it is certainly not justified to claim the rUK does.
Fixed it.
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Fixed it.
So you want a referendum in just England, Wales and NI on whether Scotland should remain part of the UK, despite the fact that a couple of years ago Scotland voted to remain in the UK. So what should happen were there to be this referendum and the rUK voted for Scotland to leave.
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https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/ might explain why the very limited tax powers levered from the clutches of Wastemonster were not used, and why we need, at the very least, more devolution. Instead of a meagre 30% of tax being devolved, why not all tax revenue in Scotland. We will then pay London what we think they need - that means they'll get diddly squat for weapons of mass destruction in Scotland's waters for starters......
Except they were used: to stick one on rich people - always popular with the masses.
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that means they'll get diddly squat for weapons of mass destruction in Scotland's waters for starters......
Faslane provides economic support to a lot of Scots in the area. Scotlands shityards also benefit greatly from the government's Buy British policy when it comes to warships. They would no longer exist if the government set out to get the best ships at the best price.
Don't knock it.
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Faslane provides economic support to a lot of Scots in the area. Scotlands shityards also benefit greatly from the government's Buy British policy when it comes to warships. They would no longer exist if the government set out to get the best ships at the best price.
Don't knock it.
Life In The Faslane .........didn't see the stop sign and took a turn for the worse .
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Faslane provides economic support to a lot of Scots in the area. Scotlands shityards also benefit greatly from the government's Buy British policy when it comes to warships. They would no longer exist if the government set out to get the best ships at the best price.
Don't knock it.
Is that why Scottish Labour (with the exception of Jackie Baillie), the Scottish Greens, the SNP and two of the three Scottish Lib Dems voted (twice) against it?
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https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/ might explain why the very limited tax powers levered from the clutches of Wastemonster were not used, and why we need, at the very least, more devolution. Instead of a meagre 30% of tax being devolved, why not all tax revenue in Scotland. We will then pay London what we think they need - that means they'll get diddly squat for weapons of mass destruction in Scotland's waters for starters......
Sounds a good idea - so the rest of the UK needn't provide any money under the Barnett Formula.
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So you want a referendum in just England, Wales and NI on whether Scotland should remain part of the UK, despite the fact that a couple of years ago Scotland voted to remain in the UK. So what should happen were there to be this referendum and the rUK voted for Scotland to leave.
Kick them out! :)
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Kick them out! :)
Against their consent, when the people people of Scotland had voted to remain in the UK - doesn't sound very democratic to me.
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So you want a referendum in just England, Wales and NI on whether Scotland should remain part of the UK, despite the fact that a couple of years ago Scotland voted to remain in the UK. So what should happen were there to be this referendum and the rUK voted for Scotland to leave.
We had a UK-wide 'EU' referendum; we ought to have a UK-wide 'Scottish independence' referendum. Have to say that I have no idea what the outcome would be.
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We had a UK-wide 'EU' referendum; we ought to have a UK-wide 'Scottish independence' referendum. Have to say that I have no idea what the outcome would be.
So there should have been a USSR referendum on the independence of the Baltic States, and an EU referendum on UK Brexit?
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So there should have been a USSR referendum on the independence of the Baltic States, and an EU referendum on UK Brexit?
USSR Referendum re: the Baltic States - there was no referendum in the first place (I suspect that there was no mechanism for it to occur), so that is a rather pointless example.
EU Referendum re: UK EC membership - Does the EU have a mechanism for EU-wide referenda?
The reason why I suggested that there ought to be a UK-wide referendum si9mply because there will be a whole host of issues that will need to be resolved before one part of the UK is able to leave the Union. There are probably more elements to untie in this set-up than there are between the EU and the UK.
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EU referendum on UK Brexit?
So according to Jakswan's rather bizarre argument on IndyRef consistency dictates that the rEU should have a referendum on brexit which over-rules that in the UK. So if the rEU votes that we should stay, we would have to.
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USSR Referendum re: the Baltic States - there was no referendum in the first place (I suspect that there was no mechanism for it to occur), so that is a rather pointless example.
EU Referendum re: UK EC membership - Does the EU have a mechanism for EU-wide referenda?
So it's not anything to do with a principle? If not then what's he argument for your position?
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So it's not anything to do with a principle? If not then what's he argument for your position?
Sorry, NS - I started to add more to my post before you had replied to it.
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Sorry, NS - I started to add more to my post before you had replied to it.
So if the principle is that affects the UK then it's the same for the EU. Your idea that it is somehow related to complexity needs more work, and more evidence than your simple assertion. You need to think this out a bit more.
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On the back of the June disaster why don't England & Wales just secede from the current UK state then they're out of the EU and they can leave the current legal state to us and N.I. - they can call themselves UK2 and take the monarchy with them and we (the official UK) can sort out the details with rEU while walls are built around every port and airport in England and Wales.
As credible as the current Brexit shambles :)
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We had a UK-wide 'EU' referendum; we ought to have a UK-wide 'Scottish independence' referendum. Have to say that I have no idea what the outcome would be.
We didn't though have an EU-wide referendum on whether GB should leave or not, did we?
How would you have felt if GB voted overwhelmingly one way and the rest of the EU the other?
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Against their consent, when the people people of Scotland had voted to remain in the UK - doesn't sound very democratic to me.
It was a joke, although it would be valid if it was UK wide. Not going to happen. I do think we would be better off without Scotland though.
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So according to Jakswan's rather bizarre argument on IndyRef consistency dictates that the rEU should have a referendum on brexit which over-rules that in the UK. So if the rEU votes that we should stay, we would have to.
That is not comparable, Turkey being part of EU is, I.e. EU gets to decide who is in EU providing there is democratic mandate from that countrys electorate.
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That is not comparable, Turkey being part of EU is, I.e. EU gets to decide who is in EU providing there is democratic mandate from that countrys electorate.
It is entirely comparable - and mentioning Turkey isn' relevant as Turkey aren't part of the EU.
You suggested that the rUK should have a referendum that would over-ride the decision of Scotland in their own referendum (in your view that although Scotland voted to remain in the UK, they should be kicked out if rUK voted that way in their referendum).
So the exactly equivalent situation for the UK and the EU is that the rEU should have a referendum that would over-ride the decision of UK in their own referendum. So in this case even though the UK voted to leave the EU, they should be required to remain in the EU if rEU voted that way in their referendum.
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It is entirely comparable - and mentioning Turkey isn' relevant as Turkey aren't part of the EU.
You suggested that the rUK should have a referendum that would over-ride the decision of Scotland in their own referendum (in your view that although Scotland voted to remain in the UK, they should be kicked out if rUK voted that way in their referendum).
So the exactly equivalent situation for the UK and the EU is that the rEU should have a referendum that would over-ride the decision of UK in their own referendum. So in this case even though the UK voted to leave the EU, they should be required to remain in the EU if rEU voted that way in their referendum.
I think jakswan is envisaging a situation where you could 'throw' a coountry out against their voting to stay but not vote to keep them if they voted out.
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I think jakswan is envisaging a situation where you could 'throw' a coountry out against their voting to stay but not vote to keep them if they voted out.
Muddled thinking - but we expect nothing less from our friend Jakswan on the EU.
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Muddled thinking - but we expect nothing less from our friend Jakswan on the EU.
As a proposal in principle, it has cogency. Practicality is another matter.
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It is entirely comparable - and mentioning Turkey isn' relevant as Turkey aren't part of the EU.
You suggested that the rUK should have a referendum that would over-ride the decision of Scotland in their own referendum (in your view that although Scotland voted to remain in the UK, they should be kicked out if rUK voted that way in their referendum).
So the exactly equivalent situation for the UK and the EU is that the rEU should have a referendum that would over-ride the decision of UK in their own referendum. So in this case even though the UK voted to leave the EU, they should be required to remain in the EU if rEU voted that way in their referendum.
No, I'm saying a UK wide vote not a rUK vote. Turkey is comparable, lets try a hypothetical, lets say an EU country elects a far right party that is racist, homophobic, nationalistic (not saying the SNP are this) etc the rEU would have the right to decide if they are kept in the EU or kicked out. A referendum would be a valid method for doing this?
This is tongue in cheek I do think Scotland / rUK would both be better of split but I'm not really advocating that we have a UK wide vote.
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No, I'm saying a UK wide vote not a rUK vote. Turkey is comparable, lets try a hypothetical, lets say an EU country elects a far right party that is racist, homophobic, nationalistic (not saying the SNP are this) etc the rEU would have the right to decide if they are kept in the EU or kicked out. A referendum would be a valid method for doing this?
No Turkey isn't relevant because it isn't part of the EU, while Scotland is part of the UK.
If a country infringed the fundamental rules that are required for EU membership then I think it would be possible for them to be thrown out - but that should never be decided by a referendum but by judicial process on the basis of applying EU law.
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No Turkey isn't relevant because it isn't part of the EU, while Scotland is part of the UK.
If a country infringed the fundamental rules that are required for EU membership then I think it would be possible for them to be thrown out - but that should never be decided by a referendum but by judicial process on the basis of applying EU law.
OK that is your opinion I have mine.
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OK that is your opinion I have mine.
I doubt it - I'm pretty sure that somewhere is the huge mass of paperwork associated with the treaties of the EU will be sections on sanction for countries that breach the fundamental principles of those treaties (i.e. break the rules of membership). Deciding on whether a country has breached and the sanction (including presumably having its membership status revoked) is a judicial matter.
We don't decision on the outcome of judicial cases via electoral referendums - nope we decide them via the judicial process and the courts.
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I doubt it - I'm pretty sure that somewhere is the huge mass of paperwork associated with the treaties of the EU will be sections on sanction for countries that breach the fundamental principles of those treaties (i.e. break the rules of membership). Deciding on whether a country has breached and the sanction (including presumably having its membership status revoked) is a judicial matter.
We don't decision on the outcome of judicial cases via electoral referendums - nope we decide them via the judicial process and the courts.
Except you phrased it that 'it should' happen that way not that it would. Jakswan's position is that it would not be wrong to have such a referendum is not about current practicalities, and neither is your position if you state 'should'.
Your above post is irrelevant in that case.