Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on December 19, 2016, 06:32:47 PM
-
Shocking
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38369962
-
Add to that the suspected intentional running down of people in Berlin and the on-going crises in Aleppo and Yeman, and today has been a sad day for humanity.
-
This stuff spirals out of control. The trouble with proxy wars is that the proxies get backlashes all over the place.
-
I was in Berlin a few weeks ago, and stayed across the road from where this happened. This does not feel like the best of times.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38375555
-
Before I read the article, my reaction to the title 'Europe is no longer safe' was wondering if of ever had been. Even within thw very narrow timescale the article refers to we have had the break up and aftermath of Yugoslavia.
http://blog.politics.ox.ac.uk/europe-is-no-longer-safe/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OxPol+%28OxPol%29
-
Before I read the article, my reaction to the title 'Europe is no longer safe' was wondering if of ever had been. Even within thw very narrow timescale the article refers to we have had the break up and aftermath of Yugoslavia.
http://blog.politics.ox.ac.uk/europe-is-no-longer-safe/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+OxPol+%28OxPol%29
It is interesting this emphasis put on 'safe places'. I'm guessing that nowhere has been that safe throughout history. It is our propensity to view our lives through rose-tinted glasses that lends some kind of validity to this idea of safety. Victorian London for example, for the most part is now portrayed as a snowy, Dickensian wonderworld aglow with rosy-cheeked residents and illuminating candles when in actuality most of us know deep down that it was pretty terrible place full of ne'er do wells and suffering from appalling living conditions - our ability to romanticize and sanitize our past is pretty incredible.
Whether it be natural disasters or self-inflicted by humans, tragedy never seems that far away. But, and this is the important thing to remember the statistical probability of being involved in anything of this type is astonishingly low. We now have instant and 24 hour media dedicated to spreading the news as widely as possible, is it any wonder we feel threatened and at risk almost constantly.
Perspective, now more than ever is needed. Whether we achieve that is up to us.
-
Indeed Trentvoyager, I note that the tragedy in Berlin has already been blamed on Merkel by Farage, by which 'logic' he can be blamed for Jo Cox murder. It's too easy with the glut of information and misinformation to seek simple causes and simple solutions.
-
Well it's bloody obvious that if you're going to let these people into your country you're going to get their terrorists aswell. Solution: don't let them in in the first place. Rather simple.
-
Well it's bloody obvious that if you're going to let these people into your country you're going to get their terrorists aswell. Solution: don't let them in in the first place. Rather simple.
'These people'?
-
'These people'?
You know: these so-called refugees we've been letting into Europe in their hundreds of thousands if not millions.
-
You know: these so-called refugees we've been letting into Europe in their hundreds of thousands if not millions.
'so called' so there are no refugees?
-
Most of them are men of fighting age. Why are they not fighting, defending their homes and freedom? Most of them are fake.
-
Most of them are men of fighting age. Why are they not fighting, defending their homes and freedom? Most of them are fake.
assertion backed up with a call to kill people.
-
Eh? Why are they not fighting? They come here instead, sexually assault women and commit terrorist acts in their idleness.
-
Eh? Why are they not fighting? They come here instead, sexually assault women and commit terrorist acts in their idleness.
and now a lazy generalisation. Who do you fight against or for in Syria? Why as a Christian are you so keen on war?
-
and now a lazy generalisation. Who do you fight against or for in Syria? Why as a Christian are you so keen on war?
I'm not keen on war but why should Europe pay the price for US warmongery? Yes, this is the fault of the US. It went to war in the Middle-East destabilising the whole region. Now there is ISIS. Why aren't they fighting against them? Send them to America. Europe doesn't want or need them.
-
I'm not keen on war but why should Europe pay the price for US warmongery? Yes, this is the fault of the US. It went to war in the Middle-East destabilising the whole region. Now there is ISIS. Why aren't they fighting against them? Send them to America. Europe doesn't want or need them.
who should they fight for? Assad?
-
I see Farage has doubled down on his comment and instead if responding to the issue of the 'logic' of his position as pointed out by Brendan Cox, responded with an ad hominem.
http://tinyurl.com/jc9frot
-
who should they fight for? Assad?
Yes.
-
Yes.
ah fighting for a murderous dictator. Remind me inwhich bit of the Gospels, Jesus says that's the thing to do?
-
ah fighting for a murderous dictator. Remind me inwhich bit of the Gospels, Jesus says that's the thing to do?
Did Syrians live in peace under Assad, even if he is a bastard?
-
Did Syrians live in peace under Assad, even if he is a bastard?
not the ones he killed. Got anything from Jesus yet on fight for murdering dictators?
-
not the ones he killed. Got anything from Jesus yet on fight for murdering dictators?
One doesn't have to justify Assad's bad deeds to acknowledge that Syrians, nearly all, lived in peace under him. Infinitely preferable to the status quo. As for Jesus, he never admonished the centurian for being a soldier.
-
One doesn't have to justify Assad's bad deeds to acknowledge that Syrians, nearly all, lived in peace under him. Infinitely preferable to the status quo. As for Jesus, he never admonished the centurian for being a soldier.
so as long as it's just a few people murdered that's OK. Just keep your head down and if someone kills the guy next door, don't rock the boat. Any centurion killing a few Jewish people was a OK with Jesus,just another way of showing love for other people
-
so as long as it's just a few people murdered that's OK. Just keep your head down and if someone kills the guy next door, don't rock the boat. Any centurion killing a few Jewish people was a OK with Jesus,just another way of showing love for other people
Maybe you'll advocate the fall of the UK state next time MI6 knocks someone off.
-
Maybe you'll advocate the fall of the UK state next time MI6 knocks someone off.
Well I certainly won't be volunteering to help them murder people. You, on the other hand, would just be a good German and ignore the murders
-
Well I certainly won't be volunteering to help them murder people. You, on the other hand, would just be a good German and ignore the murders
Of course, ISIS is better. That's exactly what the US and Israel think too.
-
Of course, ISIS is better. That's exactly what the US and Israel think too.
no, that's a false dichotomy. Those fleeing don't have to support either of the 2 repulsive options, it's one of the reasons to flee.
-
I'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for Kareluan Finns standing their ground an fighting for their homes. I have no respect for those men of fighting age running away. We shouldn't have to pay for it with terrorists and rapists. Let them go to America.
-
I'd be speaking Russian if it wasn't for Kareluan Finns standing their ground an fighting for their homes. I have no respect for those men of fighting age running away. We shouldn't have to pay for it with terrorists and rapists. Let them go to America.
false equivalence, and back to your lazy incorrect generalisation and support for a dictator
-
Just follow the fucking news.
-
Just follow the fucking news.
How is that a reply to your use of false equivalence and support for a murdering dictator?
-
How is that a reply to your use of false equivalence and support for a murdering dictator?
Now you're being deliberately stupid. As for Assad, I never said I liked him. All I said was that he gave Syrians peace.
-
Now you're being deliberately stupid. As for Assad, I never said I liked him. All I said was that he gave Syrians peace.
Didn't say you did like him, just that he's a murdering dictator that you think people should fight for. And no I don't see where following the fucking news will help with you making a false equivalence.
-
Now you're being deliberately stupid. As for Assad, I never said I liked him. All I said was that he gave Syrians peace.
some people will continue to bury their sensitive little liberal heads in the sand until such time someone creeps round behind them and sticks a cracker up their arse.
Then it will be 'forgive them for they know not what they do'
-
some people will continue to bury their sensitive little liberal heads in the sand until such time someone creeps round behind them and sticks a cracker up their arse.
Then it will be 'forgive them for they know not what they do'
So you want people to fight for a murderous dictator as well?
-
I notice all the people standing at the back, shouting 'forward'. By gum, brave lot.
-
We now have instant and 24 hour media dedicated to spreading the news as widely as possible, is it any wonder we feel threatened and at risk almost constantly.
Perspective, now more than ever is needed. Whether we achieve that is up to us.
BBC Breakfast are during a week-long series on the reality of crime and the perception of crime. This morning, the item pointed out that statistically, younger people are more likely to be victims of crime than older people, yet the former seem to have no fear of crime, whilst the latter do. The Chief Constable of the Durham force (iirc) pointed out that the false perception regarding the prevalence of crime is often fuelled by the activity of social media.
-
So you want people to fight for a murderous dictator as well?
are all your switches in the on position today?
-
I notice all the people standing at the back, shouting 'forward'. By gum, brave lot.
But Syria isn't our country.
-
are all your switches in the on position today?
Do you have a switch that says people should fight for a murdering dictator? How quaint!
-
Do you have a switch that says people should fight for a murdering dictator? How quaint!
what the hell are you on about ? Are we at crossed purposes here?
-
what the hell are you on about ? Are we at crossed purposes here?
Ad O has been arguing that people should fight for Assad,you seemed to agree with him.
-
Ad O has been arguing that people should fight for Assad,you seemed to agree with him.
thanks , I must have missed that somehow . I have been travelling over the last 24 hours
-
Eh? Why are they not fighting? They come here instead, sexually assault women and commit terrorist acts in their idleness.
All of them??? Or one or two out of thousands???
Blimey, what generalisations.
No doubt there are murderers and rapists amongst the amount of Brits who emigrate to other countries. Finns too?
I don't know what it's like in Finland but here, the majority of people who come here to settle like it, assimilate and moan about the weather.
-
Good stuff, Brownie. I think some of the right wing sound like IS, lots of generalizations, and 'they' talk. You have to have an enemy, and hello, you have a mirror image.
-
All of them??? Or one or two out of thousands???
Blimey, what generalisations.
No doubt there are murderers and rapists amongst the amount of Brits who emigrate to other countries. Finns too?
I don't know what it's like in Finland but here, the majority of people who come here to settle like it, assimilate and moan about the weather.
Over here they sponge of the state, hang around railway stations putting their benefits in fruit machines and ogling teenage girls.
-
Other generalizations are available, bespoke if required.
-
Over here they sponge of the state, hang around railway stations putting their benefits in fruit machines and ogling teenage girls.
Sound like Nigel Farage supporters to me.
-
Over here they sponge of the state, hang around railway stations putting their benefits in fruit machines and ogling teenage girls.
Very Jeremy Kyle and Benefits Street. Ours wear Burberry and have fierce dogs.
What Trent said.
BBC Breakfast are during a week-long series on the reality of crime and the perception of crime. This morning, the item pointed out that statistically, younger people are more likely to be victims of crime than older people, yet the former seem to have no fear of crime, whilst the latter do. The Chief Constable of the Durham force (iirc) pointed out that the false perception regarding the prevalence of crime is often fuelled by the activity of social media.
Hope, it seemed as if your post was buried! I take the Chief Constable's point about social media.
I haven't seen any of that on Breakfast (probably not up early enough), but I can imagine it for all sorts of reasons.
Young people are less fearful than older ones, generally. Things don't seem quite real unless they actually happen to them. When something does happen which scares them witless, their attitude changes dramatically. I was the same, expect you were too.
-
Ogling teenage girls! I ask you, this is how brown people with funny names, will lead to the downfall of Christendom, as before they arrived, nobody ever ogled a teenage girl.
-
Over here they sponge of the state, hang around railway stations putting their benefits in fruit machines and ogling teenage girls.
Xenophobia 101, the left often get hysterical about someone questioning immigration but with comments like this I'm with them, disgusting generalisation.
-
Ogling teenage girls! I ask you, this is how brown people with funny names, will lead to the downfall of Christendom, as before they arrived, nobody ever ogled a teenage girl.
do you work in border control by any chance?
-
Sound like Nigel Farage supporters to me.
you say that as though its wrong!
-
you say that as though its wrong!
Oh good. You haven't misunderstood me.
-
Oh good. You haven't misunderstood me.
Hmmm! the electorate would see it differently.
-
Hmmm! the electorate would see it differently.
Yes and 10 million flies eat dog doo.
-
Sound like Nigel Farage supporters to me.
Indeed (though we shouldn't speak in stereotypes especially to those who do talk in stereotypes and are quite stereotypical)!
Ogling teenage girls! I ask you, this is how brown people with funny names, will lead to the downfall of Christendom, as before they arrived, nobody ever ogled a teenage girl.
I can remember ogling teenage boys when I was a teenage girl (or 12). They ogled back.
Thems were the days, times haven't changed that much.
-
Yes and 10 million flies eat dog doo.
to be honest I don't give a flying fuck whether we're in or out as long as the government keeps us safe from attack
-
Indeed (though we shouldn't speak in stereotypes especially to those who do talk in stereotypes and are quite stereotypical)!
I can remember ogling teenage boys when I was a teenage girl (or 12). They ogled back.
Thems were the days, times haven't changed that much.
I was aiming too make that point with subtle sarcasm (no such thing)....some you win, some you lose.
-
to be honest I don't give a flying fuck whether we're in or out as long as the government keeps us safe from attack
Whilst I would agree that safety is paramount. I'm not sure that cutting ourselves off from access to the workings of the EU is the best way of maintaining that safety.
It may be that the security services operate outside that arena - but I'd still prefer that we were in there discussing things with our neighbours and had an inside track on their thinking on the matters affecting security, rather than turning our back on them a la Farage.
-
I was aiming too make that point with subtle sarcasm (no such thing)....some you win, some you lose.
You did, Trent! I was trying to be humourous - like yourself, some you win, some you lose :D.
-
Whilst I would agree that safety is paramount. I'm not sure that cutting ourselves off from access to the workings of the EU is the best way of maintaining that safety.
It may be that the security services operate outside that arena - but I'd still prefer that we were in there discussing things with our neighbours and had an inside track on their thinking on the matters affecting security, rather than turning our back on them a la Farage.
Mr F mentions the Australian system quite often and I tend to agree with him.
-
Mr F mentions the Australian system quite often and I tend to agree with him.
The Australian comparison isn't helpful as the countries are not comparable in what they are trying to achieve. Australia has a different set of policy goals to the UK, and uses its points system to allow more workers to arrive.
-
Theresa May has rejected such points systems, hasn't she? One reason being that it is automatic. The problem will be with labour shortages, and how to fill them. Farmers near me are worried that their field pickers will be kept out; I doubt this, I think there will be exemptions in various trades, e.g. construction and agriculture, and IT.
-
The Australian comparison isn't helpful as the countries are not comparable in what they are trying to achieve. Australia has a different set of policy goals to the UK, and uses its points system to allow more workers to arrive.
The Australian system results in significantly more inward migration than the current UK one (per population). Not sure Farage had actually thought that one through as he keeps banging on about reducing migration - that's not going to happen under an Australian-like system.
-
Ogling teenage girls! I ask you, this is how brown people with funny names, will lead to the downfall of Christendom, as before they arrived, nobody ever ogled a teenage girl.
I never said that, yet letting in hundreds of thousands of people from these high risk countries is just madness. It's asking for trouble. It's only the politicians that want them here because many of them own the reception centres, more money in their pockets.
-
The Australian system results in significantly more inward migration than the current UK one (per population). Not sure Farage had actually thought that one through as he keeps banging on about reducing migration - that's not going to happen under an Australian-like system.
Not that I'm a fan of Farage but that is flawed logic, depends on the actual points system. As I understood it works thus; we need Nurses, farm workers, so people experienced/qualified in those areas would be given more points that say plumbers (not sure if we need plumbers).
-
We do need plumbers jakswan! All sorts of construction workers too who are good at their jobs and reliable, ie don't go awol in middle of project.