Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on January 09, 2017, 09:03:15 PM
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Depressing story, great response
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38561883
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Depressing story, great response
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38561883
stnuc
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Depressing story, great response
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38561883
What a shining example of goodness that woman is. :) Those racist creeps should be banned from all eateries!
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What a shining example of goodness that woman is. :) Those racist creeps should be banned from all eateries!
So people shouldn't be allowed to use restaurants because you disagree with them?
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Most of the time no-one would know. We all sit in cafes and restaurants alongside people whose ideas might raise hairs but unless they show them, we wouldn't have any idea.
Those people made it obvious but the waitress has dealt with it with great dignity.
Yet there's something about the story, the sentence written on the bill, that makes me think it might have been a warped, childish attempt at humour, because who would really do something like that even if they were racist? Now the story has been given publicity, I can imagine the pair giggling about it, stupid prats. Just a thought.
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Most of the time no-one would know. We all sit in cafes and restaurants alongside people whose ideas might raise hairs but unless they show them, we wouldn't have any idea.
Those people made it obvious but the waitress has dealt with it with great dignity.
Yet there's something about the story, the sentence written on the bill, that makes me think it might have been a warped, childish attempt at humour, because who would really do something like that even if they were racist? Now the story has been given publicity, I can imagine the pair giggling about it, stupid prats. Just a thought.
Quite possibly, Brownie, but no less depressing
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The real problem here is the presence of the patronising, divisive, and demeaning practice of tipping.
I am aware of the habit of American employers of not paying serving staff - meaning that serving staff depend on customers for their remuneration, but there is no place for tipping in a civilised culture.
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So people shouldn't be allowed to use restaurants because you disagree with them?
Of course they should if they are racist. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Floo, if the people could be identified, I feel the restaurant manager would be justified in banning them from that restaurant.
NS, yes it is depressing and annoying to think that people could be so insensitively childish and think it is all a big joke. They need a wake up call.
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Of course they should if they are racist. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
what other freedoms should racists be denied?
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what other freedoms should racists be denied?
Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion. The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?
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Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion. The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?
There was a time homosexuality was regarded as perverted, are you saying that campaigners for gay rights should have been licked up?
Note there is a difference between being allowed to express views and being put in jail for thinking things.
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There was a time homosexuality was regarded as perverted, are you saying that campaigners for gay rights should have been licked up?
Note there is a difference between being allowed to express views and being put in jail for thinking things.
You didn't answer my question, should people with harmful views like paedophiles be permitted to express their views? Homosexuality is normal not wrong, equality for woman is not wrong!
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You didn't answer my question, should people with harmful views like paedophiles be permitted to express their views? Homosexuality is normal not wrong, equality for woman is not wrong!
Which is your opinion. I covered the answer in pointing out that expressing different beliefs is not the same as banning all racists from restaurants simply for being racist in thought, which is the position you have taken. Do I think paedophikes and ephebephiles should be able to argue for what they think? Yes. Just as I think people who are racist can argue for what they think.
Should they be able to call for violence or threaten violence to people? No, jyst as I think for any views that someone may argue.
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Which is your opinion. I coveted the answer in pointing out that expressing different beliefs is not the same as banning all racists from restaurants simply for being racist in thought, which is the position you have taken. Do I think paedophikes and ephebephikes should be able to argue for what they think? Yes. Just as I think people who are racist can argue for what they think.
Should they be able to call for violence or threaten violence to people? No, jyst as I think for any views that someone may argue.
I am gobsmacked! :o :o :o :o :o
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Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion.
Aside from the practicalities of such a policy how does this tackle racism?
I'd have thought that education and awareness would be far more use and that this lady's dignified response, along with the support she has received, is much more effective in terms of making people think about the implications of the actions of these customers. Hopefully, since they will presumably be aware that their conduct is now public knowledge, it will give both them and the like-minded food for thought.
The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?
I don't know what the content of this site was, and if it involves the likes of arranging abuse then of course it isn't acceptable.
In general terms though I want to hear extreme points of view, even distasteful ones that I and others vehemently disagree with, since that way they can be openly countered with arguments that might educate those whose outlook is of concern and also raise awareness that such views exist: much better than allowing them to persist in the undergrowth without serious challenge.
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So people shouldn't be allowed to use restaurants because you disagree with them?
That's not what Foo wrote.
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Their liberty, they should be locked up, in my opinion. The now banned, Paedophile Exchange, used to bang on about their right to have sex with children, should perverts be permitted to air their views?
If you lock up all the racists you are going to have some very full prisons with that policy Floo.
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If you lock up all the racists you are going to have some very full prisons with that policy Floo.
I agree, it is a sad reflection on society that racism is rife! >:( >:( >:( >:(
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are you saying that campaigners for gay rights should have been licked up?
If that's their gig, I see no harm in it. Try smearing them with honey first for a more enjoyable, if fattening, experience.
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should people with harmful views like paedophiles be permitted to express their views?
If you believe in free speech, the answer has to be yes, although I accept there would have to be some limits. Inciting other people to do harm would be one.
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(Responding to Trent, I see there have been a few posts since)
Quite. Plus outcry and demonstrations including violence, more support for the closet racist politicians. Where would it all end?
No, what Gordon said is right, education and raised awareness is the answer - and that sort of education should start in the home. I realise that is an ideal but I do believe in it.
All that aside, I'm sure that, in your life, you have come across people who've said stupid, thoughtless, bigoted things that you didn't like but maybe didn't take seriously at the time. Would you have those people banned from restaurants or talk to them and expose them to different ideas?
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If that's their gig, I see no harm in it. Try smearing them with honey first for a more enjoyable, if fattening, experience.
I saw the typo and thought it was too good to correct
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That's not what Foo wrote.
which was why it was phrased as a question.
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I am gobsmacked! :o :o :o :o :o
why? It's basically the principles of the classic idea of free speech in liberal thought that has been the basis for law in the west in the last hundred and fifty years. Hadn't you noticed?
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When I saw the title, I thought it was going to be about the 'Morris dancer' farce.
http://bit.ly/2i80cgO
http://bit.ly/2iYFtLr
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Oh boy, why don't people get their facts straight before they start complaining? The blacking up has nothing to do with race, it's a disguise, like a mask.
I bet they have red faces now they know.
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The real problem here is the presence of the patronising, divisive, and demeaning practice of tipping.
I am aware of the habit of American employers of not paying serving staff - meaning that serving staff depend on customers for their remuneration, but there is no place for tipping in a civilised culture.
True. Decent wages, no need for tipping. Still, no excuse for the message.
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Agreed.
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Oh boy, why don't people get their facts straight before they start complaining? The blacking up has nothing to do with race, it's a disguise, like a mask.
I bet they have red faces now they know.
I doubt it. They probably think of it as a victory. I'll bet five virtual pounds the protestors were white.
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Aside from the practicalities of such a policy how does this tackle racism?
I'd have thought that education and awareness would be far more use and that this lady's dignified response, along with the support she has received, is much more effective in terms of making people think about the implications of the actions of these customers. Hopefully, since they will presumably be aware that their conduct is now public knowledge, it will give both them and the like-minded food for thought.
I don't know what the content of this site was, and if it involves the likes of arranging abuse then of course it isn't acceptable.
In general terms though I want to hear extreme points of view, even distasteful ones that I and others vehemently disagree with, since that way they can be openly countered with arguments that might educate those whose outlook is of concern and also raise awareness that such views exist: much better than allowing them to persist in the undergrowth without serious challenge.
I'm agreeing with Gordon here.
The ladies response was more effective and she did more to increase awareness than any punishing of racists could actually do.
The way she says she would be prepared to serve them again and that being a sign they hadn't got the better of her, makes me think this lady wouldn't have wanted to take away their freedom of speech or their liberty.
She wanted to change their hearts.( not literally ;) )
I also agree with Gordon that we need to be able to hear extreme views we disagree with, in some ways it stops unpleasant things becoming respectable.
Look at the nationalistic things like the national front, the BNP, the " Britain First" and the rest of them, stopping them from expressing their views makes them respectable.
We know they are racist groups because we hear it, if you took away all the unpleasant things that give us those signals you drive it underground and make it appear respectable, and as Gordon says if you can hear the arguments, you can counter them and make people think.
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I doubt it. They probably think of it as a victory. I'll bet five virtual pounds the protestors were white.
Apparently, the protester "had a brown face". Most of the critics of the group appearing on the BBC Midlands news yesterday were people of Caribbean origin - of course they could have been specifically selected for "editorial" reasons!
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Yes they could, I expect the protesters were a mix of people. One thing they had in common at that time was ignorance! I presume they have since been enlightened.
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Apparently, the protester "had a brown face". Most of the critics of the group appearing on the BBC Midlands news yesterday were people of Caribbean origin - of course they could have been specifically selected for "editorial" reasons!
OK I lose my money then.