Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Science and Technology => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on March 28, 2017, 03:10:45 AM

Title: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 28, 2017, 03:10:45 AM
Homeopathy soon!??


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39413915
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Stranger on March 28, 2017, 08:32:33 AM
Homeopathy soon!??

We can hope. According to the radio report, not all of what they're cutting is woo, just 'low cost' stuff (like painkillers) you can buy over the counter - which is all very well if you can afford it - prescriptions can be free.

Cutting the total quackery first, including homeopathy, would seem to be a more sensible approach.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: floo on March 28, 2017, 10:36:32 AM
Over the counter meds like pain killers should definitely not be on prescription. The NHS is really struggling as it is.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Stranger on March 28, 2017, 10:58:27 AM
Over the counter meds like pain killers should definitely not be on prescription. The NHS is really struggling as it is.

Right, so people who are told to take over the counter medicines by their doctor, who are entitled (due to their financial circumstances) to free prescriptions, should nevertheless be made to pay?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: BeRational on March 28, 2017, 11:09:59 AM
Right, so people who are told to take over the counter medicines by their doctor, who are entitled (due to their financial circumstances) to free prescriptions, should nevertheless be made to pay?

I thought that when I heard the news.
I think if you are entitled to free prescriptions they should still be prescribed.

My doctor has told me when I needed something what to buy cheaper anyway, and I have done so.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: floo on March 28, 2017, 11:34:26 AM
Right, so people who are told to take over the counter medicines by their doctor, who are entitled (due to their financial circumstances) to free prescriptions, should nevertheless be made to pay?

Yes! How many people who claim poverty smoke and drink?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Stranger on March 28, 2017, 11:46:46 AM
Yes! How many people who claim poverty smoke and drink?

I don't know - do you?

Are you trying to claim that there is nobody in the country who should be entitled to free medicine when their doctor decides that they need it? Unless you are, the exact criteria is another debate. You also need to bear in mind that some people need to take medicines over a long period of time - it's not a matter of getting a prescription because you woke up with a headache one morning.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: BeRational on March 28, 2017, 11:55:49 AM
Also, children qualify for free prescriptions which I think should also be protected.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: floo on March 28, 2017, 11:57:47 AM
I don't know - do you?

Are you trying to claim that there is nobody in the country who should be entitled to free medicine when their doctor decides that they need it? Unless you are, the exact criteria is another debate. You also need to bear in mind that some people need to take medicines over a long period of time - it's not a matter of getting a prescription because you woke up with a headache one morning.

As the NHS is strapped for cash only meds which you can't buy over the counter should be on prescription, and those should be free to those judged to be in need.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 28, 2017, 11:58:58 AM
Over the counter meds like pain killers should definitely not be on prescription. The NHS is really struggling as it is.

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Though this doesn't apply to Scotland, I'm concerned.
What if the person cannot afford paracetamol yet does not qualify for free prescriptions?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 28, 2017, 12:00:04 PM
Yes! How many people who claim poverty smoke and drink?

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Are you going to be the arbiter of who is, and is not, poor?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 28, 2017, 12:01:10 PM
As the NHS is strapped for cash only meds which you can't buy over the counter should be on prescription, and those should be free to those judged to be in need.


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So who does the 'judging'?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: floo on March 28, 2017, 12:12:41 PM
On another forum a poster claims to be prescribed 100 paracetamol tablets at a time by their doctor! There is a reason why paracetamol is sold in such small quantities, because to overdose on them can cause death. Besides which, according to our GP even taking the prescribed daily dose for more than a few days can cause them to become less effective, and can damage you!   
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: SusanDoris on March 28, 2017, 12:29:34 PM
There are so many grey areas in this subject that no simple decisions can be made. But I think Floo has a point about those whose first priorities are smoking, drinking, and in many cases animals.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Stranger on March 28, 2017, 12:36:21 PM
On another forum a poster claims to be prescribed 100 paracetamol tablets at a time by their doctor! There is a reason why paracetamol is sold in such small quantities, because to overdose on them can cause death. Besides which, according to our GP even taking the prescribed daily dose for more than a few days can cause them to become less effective, and can damage you!

What's your point?

It is the job of a doctor to assess risks and benefits. Do you think the doctor who prescribed 100 paracetamol at a time (assuming the claim is true) didn't do their job? I have neither the information nor the qualifications to make that judgement - do you?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 28, 2017, 12:59:03 PM
On another forum a poster claims to be prescribed 100 paracetamol tablets at a time by their doctor! There is a reason why paracetamol is sold in such small quantities, because to overdose on them can cause death. Besides which, according to our GP even taking the prescribed daily dose for more than a few days can cause them to become less effective, and can damage you!   


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I've been prescribed Co-Codamol - a combination of paractamol and codeine - for nearly thirty years, now.
Whether I take the pressribed 8 per day is another matter entirely.
I get thm in 180 tablet boxes.
Are you suggesting that those prescribed them on a regular basis toddle to the pharmacit once or twice per week?
Will you finance the taxis?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Harrowby Hall on March 28, 2017, 02:10:29 PM
There are a couple of items in the list which have attracted my attention.

One is gluten-free products. I have a friend with coeliac disease - when she has visited me I have had to buy gluten-free stuff. I costs about three times as much as standard foods - effectively a surcharge for being ill.

The second point I want to make is about a drug which has restored the ability of men to enjoy consensual relations with their wives. Unfortunately, the prurient software which this forum uses censors my attempts to mention it.

On another forum a poster claims to be prescribed 100 paracetamol tablets at a time by their doctor! There is a reason why paracetamol is sold in such small quantities, because to overdose on them can cause death. Besides which, according to our GP even taking the prescribed daily dose for more than a few days can cause them to become less effective, and can damage you!

I have always thought that the restriction imposed on the quantity of common NSAIDS that can be purchased at one time is rather patronising. It also ignores the fact that an individual can visit several different shops and acquire rather more  than the "official" restricted quantity.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: floo on March 28, 2017, 02:45:11 PM
What's your point?

It is the job of a doctor to assess risks and benefits. Do you think the doctor who prescribed 100 paracetamol at a time (assuming the claim is true) didn't do their job? I have neither the information nor the qualifications to make that judgement - do you?

Our doctor told my husband never to take the prescribed dose of paracetamol for more than three days at a time, as it becomes less effective and can actually damage your health.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Stranger on March 28, 2017, 03:17:59 PM
Our doctor told my husband never to take the prescribed dose of paracetamol for more than three days at a time, as it becomes less effective and can actually damage your health.

You didn't answer my questions.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: BeRational on March 28, 2017, 03:21:51 PM
There are a couple of items in the list which have attracted my attention.

One is gluten-free products. I have a friend with coeliac disease - when she has visited me I have had to buy gluten-free stuff. I costs about three times as much as standard foods - effectively a surcharge for being ill.

The second point I want to make is about a drug which has restored the ability of men to enjoy consensual relations with their wives. Unfortunately, the prurient software which this forum uses censors my attempts to mention it.

I have always thought that the restriction imposed on the quantity of common NSAIDS that can be purchased at one time is rather patronising. It also ignores the fact that an individual can visit several different shops and acquire rather more  than the "official" restricted quantity.

You can buy this drug that allows acts of great kindness to be performed between consenting couples from the internet.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Stranger on March 28, 2017, 03:50:08 PM
The second point I want to make is about a drug which has restored the ability of men to enjoy consensual relations with their wives. Unfortunately, the prurient software which this forum uses censors my attempts to mention it.

Sildenafil perhaps? I suspect the software is censoring the brand name to prevent spam/advertising...
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Rhiannon on March 28, 2017, 04:05:32 PM
I seriously can't believe there are NHS doctors prescribing fish oils. Ffs.

As someone who has had skin cancer I worry about sun screen no longer being g available to those who need it. I do buy my own but not everyone can afford it.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Harrowby Hall on March 28, 2017, 04:33:51 PM
Sildenafil perhaps? I suspect the software is censoring the brand name to prevent spam/advertising...

Indeed, it was sildenafil and tadalafil
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Harrowby Hall on March 28, 2017, 04:46:28 PM
Sildenafil perhaps? I suspect the software is censoring the brand name to prevent spam/advertising...

Yes - and the generic was the word I used. However when I added t*d*l*fil (which is also a generic) my efforts were scuppered. My point was that, in my experience, the latter is much more effective than the former and yet it appears to be considered for non-approval.

Note

When I tried to extend my immediate previous post (22) it was rejected. This is perverse!
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Harrowby Hall on March 28, 2017, 04:57:24 PM
You can buy this drug that allows acts of great kindness to be performed between consenting couples from the internet.

Indeed you can.

Could someone tell me whether the public policy in respect of these drugs does not fall foul of the Equality Act (2010)? Oral contraceptives are prescribed free to women who want to enjoy a sex life without becoming pregnant, but PDE5 inhibitors, for men, are largely available only on private prescription. Surely, this is discriminating on the grounds of sex?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Rhiannon on March 28, 2017, 05:02:52 PM
Indeed you can.

Could someone tell me whether the public policy in respect of these drugs does not fall foul of the Equality Act (2010)? Oral contraceptives are prescribed free to women who want to enjoy a sex life without becoming pregnant, but PDE5 inhibitors, for men, are largely available only on private prescription. Surely, this is discriminating on the grounds of sex?

A woman avoiding an unwanted pregnancy benefits both partners. And pregnancy, termination and childbirth are all potentially harmful to the woman.

Contraception is about far more than being able to enjoy sex.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Rhiannon on March 28, 2017, 05:14:42 PM
There are so many grey areas in this subject that no simple decisions can be made. But I think Floo has a point about those whose first priorities are smoking, drinking, and in many cases animals.

So what are you saying, that people on benefits shouldn't keep animals?  ???
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 28, 2017, 05:30:55 PM
So what are you saying, that people on benefits shouldn't keep animals?  ???
Only the smoking and drinking animals
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: SusanDoris on March 28, 2017, 06:24:48 PM
So what are you saying, that people on benefits shouldn't keep animals?  ???
If I had meant that particularly, I'd have said so.
In general terms, there seems to be a feeling that people have a right to smoke, etc. When I was very short of money, I had to budget carefully, not rely on being given things.
I am not going into the subject of benefits etc.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Rhiannon on March 28, 2017, 06:26:09 PM
If I had meant that particularly, I'd have said so.
In general terms, there seems to be a feeling that people have a right to smoke, etc. When I was very short of money, I had to budget carefully, not rely on being given things.
I am not going into the subject of benefits etc.

Fair enough, but I still don't get the mention of animals.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: jeremyp on March 28, 2017, 08:22:56 PM
Yes! How many people who claim poverty smoke and drink?
How many people who claim poverty don't smoke and drink? Do they deserve to be punished for the actions ofd the ones that do?
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: jeremyp on March 28, 2017, 08:23:27 PM
Also, children qualify for free prescriptions which I think should also be protected.
How many children smoke and drink....
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: jeremyp on March 28, 2017, 08:24:29 PM
As the NHS is strapped for cash only meds which you can't buy over the counter should be on prescription
I don't get that logic.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: jeremyp on March 28, 2017, 08:27:41 PM

The second point I want to make is about a drug which has restored the ability of men to enjoy consensual relations with their wives. Unfortunately, the prurient software which this forum uses censors my attempts to mention it.

Techy note: The filter that prevents you from writing "vi*gra" is nothing to do with the board software. If I had any control over it, it would not be there, believe me.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Bubbles on March 29, 2017, 07:10:58 AM
-
Though this doesn't apply to Scotland, I'm concerned.
What if the person cannot afford paracetamol yet does not qualify for free prescriptions?

If they buy the paracetamol at Lidl it's about 30p
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Bubbles on March 29, 2017, 07:14:25 AM
Some places it's only 19p

Apparently there isn't much difference. Not enough to pay expensive prices.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/11956383/Should-I-spend-1.45-on-branded-painkillers-or-19p-at-the-supermarket.html
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Robbie on March 29, 2017, 07:35:01 AM
Indeed you can.

Could someone tell me whether the public policy in respect of these drugs does not fall foul of the Equality Act (2010)? Oral contraceptives are prescribed free to women who want to enjoy a sex life without becoming pregnant, but PDE5 inhibitors, for men, are largely available only on private prescription. Surely, this is discriminating on the grounds of sex?

PDE5 inhibitors are not contraceptives.Indeed, not using PDE5 inhibitors inhibits conception so no comparison. Same with v i a g r a & c i a l i s.

As Rose said paracetamol can be bought cheaply & GPs tell patients when a drug is cheaper over the counter than on prescription. Antihistamines are another example.

Pain killers are not just paracetamol though, stronger ones are more expensive and if needed should be prescribed.

Regarding people on benefits are there resources for beneftis personnel to visit and check if they smoke & drink or have pets? Documentaries and the likes of the Daily Mail highlight depressed areas where majority are on benefits smoke,drink & own pets but there are plenty of other people who do not fit into that category who desperately need medication.

Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 29, 2017, 09:18:37 AM
If they buy the paracetamol at Lidl it's about 30p

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And?
Rose, in all seriousness, I know several situations where a family struggles to find 30p.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 29, 2017, 09:20:46 AM
Some places it's only 19p

Apparently there isn't much difference. Not enough to pay expensive prices.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/money-saving-tips/11956383/Should-I-spend-1.45-on-branded-painkillers-or-19p-at-the-supermarket.html


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19p plus bus fare if you don't live in a city and the nearest pharmacist is six miles or more away.
So, at least £6 return, then.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Bubbles on March 29, 2017, 01:12:24 PM

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19p plus bus fare if you don't live in a city and the nearest pharmacist is six miles or more away.
So, at least £6 return, then.

I just pick up a packet when I'm going shopping anyway.

I think people on benefits should get a free prescription for them, children too.

I work, so I can afford to buy my own and given a prescription costs me nearly a tenner nowadays.

The chemist near me told me they are obligated to tell customers when things on a prescription cost less over the counter.

Hay fever tablets are cheaper over the counter.

 
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Bubbles on March 29, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
I've tried alternatives like Manuka honey for healing the skin, but I bought it myself, with the doctors blessing.

People will still be able to try things now and again.

It's just it's not really up to the NHS to prescribe things that don't have a proven track record.

Alternatives are luxuries, really.

Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Robbie on March 29, 2017, 03:00:29 PM

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19p plus bus fare if you don't live in a city and the nearest pharmacist is six miles or more away.
So, at least £6 return, then.

Things like paracetamol can be bought in corner shops/newsagents and aren't dear. Don't know how much but they aren't as epensive as somewhere, say, like Boots and far cheaper than prescription.

Still I do think everything should be available on prescription, free, if people qualify such as children, elderly and those on benefts. There isn't the manpower available to chekc the reliability of every patient.

Thinking back to the post about treatment for erectile dysfunction contrasting with free contraceptives for women, HRT used not to be free (that may have changed tho doubt it), prescriptions had to be paid for.  Both are non essential but important to patients concerned.  Contraceptives prescribed to women benefit women,men and society in general.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 29, 2017, 03:03:21 PM
Fortunately, Scotland does not charge for prescribed medicine.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Robbie on March 29, 2017, 03:55:44 PM
That is amazing!  You mean, if someone under 65 not on benefits needs a prescribed med, they get it free?  If so I am delighted.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Gordon on March 29, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
That is amazing!  You mean, if someone under 65 not on benefits needs a prescribed med, they get it free?  If so I am delighted.

Yep - prescriptions are free here in Scotland.
Title: Re: Some woo being cut out..
Post by: Anchorman on March 29, 2017, 06:24:01 PM
Wot Gordon said. And we won't go down the road of privatising our NHS either.