Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bubbles on March 31, 2017, 08:06:39 PM

Title: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on March 31, 2017, 08:06:39 PM
Passenger jet approaching Heathrow in drone 'near-miss'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39457371

Scary.

There should be areas it is safe to fly drones, while enforcing a no drone area to protect lives.

Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Nearly Sane on March 31, 2017, 08:21:01 PM
Passenger jet approaching Heathrow in drone 'near-miss'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39457371

Scary.

There should be areas it is safe to fly drones, while enforcing a no drone area to protect lives.

Area?!!! You mean no drone zone surely.  ;)
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: ippy on March 31, 2017, 11:43:38 PM
It's not that easy to rid ourselves of the royals Rose!

ippy
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2017, 08:14:01 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 01, 2017, 08:32:12 AM
I think drones should be banned they are obviously very dangerous.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 01, 2017, 10:23:05 AM
I think drones should be banned they are obviously very dangerous.
Not as dangerous as cars though. Should they be banned?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Anchorman on April 01, 2017, 10:56:18 AM
I think drones should be banned they are obviously very dangerous.

-
But also very useful if used properly.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 01, 2017, 11:26:38 AM
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But also very useful if used properly.

For what exactly?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 01, 2017, 12:50:13 PM
For what exactly?
Reconnaissance, ariel photography, search and rescue, accessing difficult and dangerous to reach places.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2017, 01:19:46 PM
I think drones should be banned they are obviously very dangerous.

Only in the wrong place, Floo.

Banning them everywhere would be OTT.

Lots of people flew small remote control planes/helicopters as a hobby without it being an issue.

Drones should be restricted only if they pose a big risk or someone invades others privacy.

Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 01, 2017, 01:29:35 PM
A problem with drones is that they can be purchased and used by people who have had no training in their use and no assessment of their ability to operate them safely.

It might even be that drones are an attractive plaything to the sort of individual who feels his masculinity is enhanced by being accompanied by a pit bull terrier on a chain.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 01, 2017, 01:53:46 PM
Reconnaissance, ariel photography, search and rescue, accessing difficult and dangerous to reach places.

Fine but they should only be used by professionals, NOT the general public, especially kids.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Anchorman on April 01, 2017, 02:03:40 PM
For what exactly?
[/quote

-
locating missing persons.
(The police are starting to use them for this, and other purposes)
Ariel surveys for agricultural, conservation and archaeological reasons.
Among other stuff.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 01, 2017, 03:04:17 PM
Fine but they should only be used by professionals, NOT the general public, especially kids.
Would you be happy if the operators passed some kind of test a bit like a driving test?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2017, 06:14:18 PM
A problem with drones is that they can be purchased and used by people who have had no training in their use and no assessment of their ability to operate them safely.

It might even be that drones are an attractive plaything to the sort of individual who feels his masculinity is enhanced by being accompanied by a pit bull terrier on a chain.

That's a bit sexist!

No! It's very sexist! actually.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: jeremyp on April 01, 2017, 07:07:49 PM
Passenger jet approaching Heathrow in drone 'near-miss'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39457371

Scary.

There should be areas it is safe to fly drones, while enforcing a no drone area to protect lives.
I'm sceptical. A drone at 10,000 feet seems more or less impossible to me.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: jeremyp on April 01, 2017, 07:09:27 PM
Fine but they should only be used by professionals, NOT the general public, especially kids.
If you had your way, everything would be banned.

Did you know paedophiles use online forums. I'm surprised you are still here, it is so dangerous.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 01, 2017, 07:19:10 PM
I'm sceptical. A drone at 10,000 feet seems more or less impossible to me.

And illegal if true, by a substantial factor

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/04/18/drone-laws-in-the-uk--what-are-the-rules/
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: jeremyp on April 01, 2017, 07:36:22 PM
And illegal if true, by a substantial factor

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/04/18/drone-laws-in-the-uk--what-are-the-rules/
Indeed, the legal limit is 400 feet.

Incidentally, 10,000 feet is 1.9 miles. A drone at that height could not have been controlled by a human on the ground, and I can't believe its battery wouldn't be flat before it got there.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 01, 2017, 08:15:59 PM
That's a bit sexist!

No! It's very sexist! actually.

Explain, please. How do you know that I don't keep a pit bull on a chain?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2017, 09:37:04 PM
Explain, please. How do you know that I don't keep a pit bull on a chain?

It was your assumption that it's men that have an interest in flying drones.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2017, 09:58:03 PM
I'm sceptical. A drone at 10,000 feet seems more or less impossible to me.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/drones/a19854/drone-flown-11000-feet/

Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 02, 2017, 08:14:41 AM
It was your assumption that it's men that have an interest in flying drones.

Where did I say that specifically men have an interest in flying drones? I did not. What I wrote was:

Quote
It might even be that drones are an attractive plaything to the sort of individual who feels his masculinity is enhanced by being accompanied by a pit bull terrier on a chain.

Now, please read that carefully and tell me how it excludes the possibility of anyone not fitting into that category from flying drones.

The assumptions are all yours, not mine.

Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 02, 2017, 08:18:18 AM
When it is too late and a plane crashes in the UK killing everyone on board because it has been struck by out of control drone, maybe something might be done! :o Until then I won't hold my breath.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2017, 10:48:51 AM
When it is too late and a plane crashes in the UK killing everyone on board because it has been struck by out of control drone, maybe something might be done! :o Until then I won't hold my breath.
Something has been done, it's already illegal to fly a drone at over 400 feet. The next step will be to require them to be licensed because is looks like it is going to be very hard to find out who was nominally in control of this one.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 02, 2017, 10:54:16 AM
Something has been done, it's already illegal to fly a drone at over 400 feet. The next step will be to require them to be licensed because is looks like it is going to be very hard to find out who was nominally in control of this one.
looking at the other regulations, I am a bit baffled how it is possible to use one at all legally most of the time given the 50 metre rule about proximity to other people.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 02, 2017, 11:13:42 AM
I suspect policing drones is going to be difficult.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 02, 2017, 11:31:01 AM
Perhaps they could be fitted with some sort of identification device, perhaps like the chips inserted into cats and dogs. They could be in addition to other identification methods (serial numbers for airframes, motors etc) or built into the radio control systems. Of course, people will try to find ways of subverting them but if there is more than one this will be more difficult.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 02, 2017, 11:47:31 AM
I wonder if drones might be used as a terrorist weapon? If that is possible all the more reason for limiting the number of people permitted to own the things.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 02, 2017, 12:15:47 PM
I wonder if drones might be used as a terrorist weapon? If that is possible all the more reason for limiting the number of people permitted to own the things.
Cars and trucks are used as terrorist weapons currently.
Will you be calling for limitation of who can use  or own them?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 02, 2017, 12:20:06 PM
Cars and trucks are used as terrorist weapons currently.
Will you be calling for limitation of who can use  or own them?

Cars and trucks are necessary means of transport, drones in the hands of anyone, but professionals, are unnecessary, imo. 

I believe they are trying to ban Chinese lanterns too as they can be dangerous and cause fires.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 02, 2017, 12:41:05 PM
Cars and trucks are necessary means of transport,
Not neccessary for everyone who owns one. So you could restrict ownership to those for whom they are actually necessary?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 02, 2017, 02:44:23 PM
Not neccessary for everyone who owns one. So you could restrict ownership to those for whom they are actually necessary?

You are not comparing like with like.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2017, 03:01:56 PM
Cars and trucks are necessary means of transport, drones in the hands of anyone, but professionals, are unnecessary, imo. 

The world would bet a boring place if we were only allowed to do what is necessary.

Quote
I believe they are trying to ban Chinese lanterns too as they can be dangerous and cause fires.
I'd be more sympathetic about that one. A paper bag on fire drifting through the air has obvious safety implications.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Sebastian Toe on April 02, 2017, 03:16:17 PM
You are not comparing like with like.
Something that you do all the time.........not.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: floo on April 02, 2017, 03:42:37 PM
Something that you do all the time.........not.

Ehhhhhhhhhh?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: ekim on April 02, 2017, 03:43:12 PM
I wonder if drones might be used as a terrorist weapon? If that is possible all the more reason for limiting the number of people permitted to own the things.
They probably could be used by terrorists or psychopaths.  It's just another technology which can be used for good or ill.  I doubt whether it could be regulated satisfactorily.  It might be possible to restrict its use to those above a certain age group, insist upon proper training, registration and insurance cover but I doubt whether that would deter a determined terrorist and like the Internet there would probably be ways around it.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2017, 04:36:21 PM
I doubt whether it could be regulated satisfactorily.  It might be possible to restrict its use to those above a certain age group, insist upon proper training, registration and insurance cover but I doubt whether that would deter a determined terrorist and like the Internet there would probably be ways around it.
I think our gun laws provide a solid counter example to that argument.

Why did the guy who attacked the Palace of Westminster the other day not have a gun? Probably because he couldn't get hold of one.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: ekim on April 02, 2017, 04:55:38 PM
I think our gun laws provide a solid counter example to that argument.

Why did the guy who attacked the Palace of Westminster the other day not have a gun? Probably because he couldn't get hold of one.
You may be right, but whether there would be a political will to increase taxes to pay for the policing  I don't know.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Rhiannon on April 02, 2017, 05:52:59 PM
Chinese lanterns are horribly dangerous because there is no control over where they land. Aside from the fire risk the wire frames have been known to kill animals. They are beautiful but they should be banned.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 02, 2017, 05:53:26 PM
It might be, one day, that you will need a license of some sort and zones where you can fly them without getting in the way of plane flight paths and a height restriction depending on where it is.

You probably would have to abide by no fly zones around power stations and the like.

You could have some restrictions, but not a total ban, to make it safer and so people can enjoy flying them.

Some people like shooting rockets, and they go quite high.

IMO it's all about where you do it.


Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Rhiannon on April 02, 2017, 05:55:02 PM
You may be right, but whether there would be a political will to increase taxes to pay for the policing  I don't know.

I don't think it'd be a huge of resources. It might be unlikely to stop a terrorist but it would stop the muppets who just don't know what they are doing and who risk causing just as much devastation.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 02, 2017, 06:04:54 PM
Yep they are definitely going to have to do something, a plane hit one coming into land ( British airways jet landing at Heathrow) and although the 132 passengers were fine, it's obviously dangerous, because people are silly to fly it that close to an airport.

Plus this article says some man got charged for losing control of one near some nuclear submarine base  :o

He was lucky they didn't charge him with spying, do that in some countries and that would be your lot.

The UK is quite tolerant, because I think he got off lightly. I'm surprised that's all he got  :o

I think they are going to have to do something about it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/04/18/drone-laws-in-the-uk--what-are-the-rules/


Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 02, 2017, 06:19:09 PM
It might be, one day, that you will need a license of some sort and zones where you can fly them without getting in the way of plane flight paths and a height restriction depending on where it is.

You probably would have to abide by no fly zones around power stations and the like.

You could have some restrictions, but not a total ban, to make it safer and so people can enjoy flying them.

Some people like shooting rockets, and they go quite high.

IMO it's all about where you do it.
That there are restrictions was posted earlier.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 02, 2017, 06:30:12 PM
That there are restrictions was posted earlier.

But they are obviously not enough, because they don't cater for domestic drones very well. The existing laws are probably more designed for remote control planes which don't go so high.

If they did what was intended , planes ( commercial jets )  coming into land wouldn't be encountering them.
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 02, 2017, 06:36:58 PM
But they are obviously not enough, because they don't cater for domestic drones very well.

If they did, planes coming into land wouldn't be encountering them.
Not sure what you mean by 'enough'? There are laws against murder but it still happens. You made a point that there should be regulations about height etc but there are.

So, in addition, we could make the penalties harsher, have some form of licensing system (though people drive cars without a licence every day), greater system controls on height (note the alleged 11000 feet was achieved by removing the existing controls), or an outright ban for private ownerships. What do you favour?
Title: Re: They are going to have to do something about drones
Post by: Bubbles on April 03, 2017, 07:13:01 AM
Not an outright ban, because the majority of hobbyists are responsible, but some training wouldn't hurt.

This is the sort of thing Ministers are looking at bringing in.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/21/drone-users-face-safety-test-new-uk-regulations