Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on April 07, 2017, 08:24:06 AM
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I regard myself as reasonably well informed, but I fear that knowing what is going on in Syria is virtually impossible
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39523654
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Where will it end? :o
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All I know is that we should keep well out of this mess. Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia should have taught us that by now.
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As I watch the news on Syria, I think we have moved beyond the enemy of my enemy is my friend to 'The enemy of my friend's enemy's enemy's enemy's friend's enemy is the friend of my enemy's friend's friend's friend's enemy'
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As I watch the news on Syria, I think we have moved beyond the enemy of my enemy is my friend to 'The enemy of my friend's enemy's enemy's enemy's friend's enemy is the friend of my enemy's friend's friend's friend's enemy'
At the moment I do not worry about escalation. It was a token smack and the Russians and Chinese were informed.
Just a show to make it look like punishment.
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At the moment I do not worry about escalation. It was a token smack and the Russians and Chinese were informed.
Just a show to make it look like punishment.
for something that they may not have done.
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I didn't think there is too much doubt the Assad regime was behind that ghastly chemical attack.
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I've looked and looked at what is being said and it was a chemical attack and not the 'accident' as claimed by Russia. There's also a time discrepancy in Russia's claims for some reason. I guess it is most likely Assad behind it but we can't know for sure. However I am concerned that we will end up slipping into tin hat territory - there are a lot of people claiming that the photo of the dead twins was faked. And the alt right are apparently several pissed off with Trump this morning.
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Was anyone else as sickened as I was by Trump's repeated reference to God in his tv appearance this morning?
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Was anyone else as sickened as I was by Trump's repeated reference to God in his tv appearance this morning?
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Yep.
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Was anyone else as sickened as I was by Trump's repeated reference to God in his tv appearance this morning?
I am sickened by Trump!
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Me too. Don't understand how people think he is a man of God any more than someone else.
He appeals to some sections of society, saw something recently where he was at a big wrestling match, got into the ring with his microphone and spouted.
I didn't think there is too much doubt the Assad regime was behind that ghastly chemical attack.
Not sure about that; its all too easy to blame it on Assad tho' likely of course.
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Me too. Don't understand how people think he is a man of God any more than someone else.
He appeals to some sections of society, saw something recently where he was at a big wrestling match, got into the ring with his microphone and spouted.
Not sure about that; its all too easy to blame it on Assad tho' likely of course.
I can't see the terrorists having the wherewithal like planes to drop the chemicals as apparently happened in this case.
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All I know is that we should keep well out of this mess. Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia should have taught us that by now.
North Korea next......BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!
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At the moment I do not worry about escalation. It was a token smack and the Russians and Chinese were informed.
Just a show to make it look like punishment.
To me it looks like just a show to distract the US public from his appalling domestic political problems.
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I didn't think there is too much doubt the Assad regime was behind that ghastly chemical attack.
Oh, there is plenty of doubt... According to former Congressman Ron Paul, the chemical weapons attack in Khan Sheikhoun that killed 30 children and has led to calls for the Trump administration to intervene in Syria could have been a false flag attack.
Pointing out that the prospect of peace in Syria was moving closer before the attack, with ISIS and Al-Qaeda on the run, Paul said the attack made no sense.
“It looks like maybe somebody didn’t like that so there had to be an episode,” said Paul, asking, “who benefits?”
“It doesn’t make any sense for Assad under these conditions to all of a sudden use poison gases – I think there’s zero chance he would have done this deliberately,” said Paul.
The former Congressman went on to explain how the incident was clearly being exploited by neo-cons and the deep state to enlist support for war. “It’s the neo-conservatives who are benefiting tremendously from this because it’s derailed the progress that has already been made moving toward a more peaceful settlement in Syria,” said Paul.
https://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-chemical-weapons-attack-in-syria-likely-a-false-flag/
After the Wotsit Faced, Constipated Orangutang came into office he declared a wish to work with Russia and maybe even President Assad in the battle against the Islamic State, there was even some hope that the international community would accept the legitimacy of Assad once again.
Only last week came the statements from Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson and the ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki R. Haley, indicating effectively that Washington could accept President Assad remaining in power and that the only priority in the Middle East was the defeat of the Islamic State terrorist organization, which is concentrated in Syria and Iraq.
On Monday, Western officials were gathering in Brussels to weigh billions of dollars in reconstruction aid to the Assad government.
And then there was Tuesday....
As the Ex-Congressman points out:“It doesn’t make any sense for Assad under these conditions to all of a sudden use poison gases – I think there’s zero chance he would have done this deliberately.”
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Agreed.
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Just to add; This guy reflects my opinion of the so-called attack in Syria.
Peter Fordham a previous ambassador to Syria had this to say on the BBC the other day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU5taO5vRDo
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Oh, there is plenty of doubt...
After the Wotsit Faced, Constipated Orangutang came into office he declared a wish to work with Russia and maybe even President Assad in the battle against the Islamic State, there was even some hope that the international community would accept the legitimacy of Assad once again.
Only last week came the statements from Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson and the ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki R. Haley, indicating effectively that Washington could accept President Assad remaining in power and that the only priority in the Middle East was the defeat of the Islamic State terrorist organization, which is concentrated in Syria and Iraq.
On Monday, Western officials were gathering in Brussels to weigh billions of dollars in reconstruction aid to the Assad government.
And then there was Tuesday....
As the Ex-Congressman points out:“It doesn’t make any sense for Assad under these conditions to all of a sudden use poison gases – I think there’s zero chance he would have done this deliberately.”
No doubt there are any number of possibilities and even more possible conspiracy theories, however sometimes action needs to be taken based on the information available and in a timely manner. Hopefully more evidence and facts will emerge to confirm responsibility for the sarin attack. In the meantime, the US response is a fait accompli with positive outcomes possible.
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How we learn to love the bombs
https://theintercept.com/2017/04/07/the-spoils-of-war-trump-lavished-with-media-and-bipartisan-praise-for-bombing-syria/
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I seem to remember a certain poster from Finland being critical of Hillary Clinton because she was in favour of air strikes in Syria and thus an alleged warmonger.
And now her opponent is trying to start World War III.
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I seem to remember a certain poster from Finland being critical of Hillary Clinton because she was in favour of air strikes in Syria and thus an alleged warmonger.
And now her opponent is trying to start World War III.
It was me. Trump has now made the same mistake indeed.
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Yes, as already noted the alt right have gone right off Trump.
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No doubt there are any number of possibilities and even more possible conspiracy theories, however sometimes action needs to be taken based on the information available and in a timely manner. Hopefully more evidence and facts will emerge to confirm responsibility for the sarin attack. In the meantime, the US response is a fait accompli with positive outcomes possible.
But Ricky was saying, or words to this effect, that the whole thing could have been staged by the anti-Assad lot and now that buffoon has gone in and taken the bait.
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I seem to remember a certain poster from Finland being critical of Hillary Clinton because she was in favour of air strikes in Syria and thus an alleged warmonger.
And now her opponent is trying to start World War III.
"Trying"....I think you over estimate the guys intelligence.
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But Ricky was saying, or words to this effect, that the whole thing could have been staged by the anti-Assad lot and now that buffoon has gone in and taken the bait.
Well ... so what?
According to the Russians America is behind the rebels and ISIS anyway so, we can assume, the whole of Syria is just a stage for play acting. Trump, as a buffoon, is just a part of the show.
If everyone waited for everything to be proved from evidence or first principles before acting, things would be a bit slow.
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Well ... so what?
According to the Russians America is behind the rebels and ISIS anyway so, we can assume, the whole of Syria is just a stage for play acting. Trump, as a buffoon, is just a part of the show.
If everyone waited for everything to be proved from evidence or first principles before acting, things would be a bit slow.
Strike first think later? That's what they did in Iraq, isn't it? No wait! They outright lied. How do we know that they aren't now?
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Well ... so what?
According to the Russians America is behind the rebels and ISIS anyway so, we can assume, the whole of Syria is just a stage for play acting. Trump, as a buffoon, is just a part of the show.
If everyone waited for everything to be proved from evidence or first principles before acting, things would be a bit slow.
So if it was shown that the whole thing was an America fake news thing you would still be fine with the fact that Trump went and bombed the place on this "fake news"?
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Strike first think later? That's what they did in Iraq, isn't it? No wait! They outright lied. How do we know that they aren't now?
Agree that invasion of Iraq was based on lies, however this is not at all the same kind of action. Neither is it "shoot first, think later", it seems to be have been carefully thought out. If Russia has any evidence that the chemical stores were being kept by the rebels they should have come out with it prior to the US strike. I understand that the area was under surveillance by Russian drones prior to the attack by the Syrian planes.
I don't support Trump in any way and am sure he can lie just as well as Bush, Putin and the rest .. if it did turn out that it was a false flag operation, he could well try and cover that up later. However, to this point it is a "win" for him, though only a limited action with longer term policy still uncertain. I think Obama got it wrong in not making a similar strike after the sarin attack in 2013 - possibly the continued escalation of the war could have been stopped.
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Agree that invasion of Iraq was based on lies, however this is not at all the same kind of action. Neither is it "shoot first, think later", it seems to be have been carefully thought out. If Russia has any evidence that the chemical stores were being kept by the rebels they should have come out with it prior to the US strike. I understand that the area was under surveillance by Russian drones prior to the attack by the Syrian planes.
I don't support Trump in any way and am sure he can lie just as well as Bush, Putin and the rest .. if it did turn out that it was a false flag operation, he could well try and cover that up later. However, to this point it is a "win" for him, though only a limited action with longer term policy still uncertain. I think Obama got it wrong in not making a similar strike after the sarin attack in 2013 - possibly the continued escalation of the war could have been stopped.
it seems to have been carefully thought out? By what? An etch a sketch and a used tampon?
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Agree that invasion of Iraq was based on lies, however this is not at all the same kind of action. Neither is it "shoot first, think later", it seems to be have been carefully thought out. If Russia has any evidence that the chemical stores were being kept by the rebels they should have come out with it prior to the US strike. I understand that the area was under surveillance by Russian drones prior to the attack by the Syrian planes.
I don't support Trump in any way and am sure he can lie just as well as Bush, Putin and the rest .. if it did turn out that it was a false flag operation, he could well try and cover that up later. However, to this point it is a "win" for him, though only a limited action with longer term policy still uncertain. I think Obama got it wrong in not making a similar strike after the sarin attack in 2013 - possibly the continued escalation of the war could have been stopped.
But Assad is winning, or more so than the rebels etc., so why would he do such a provocative actions as this? It doesn't make sense. What makes sense is that it has been concocted by the Allies to try to force Russia to back off from Assad, which is what they are trying to do.
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So if it was shown that the whole thing was an America fake news thing you would still be fine with the fact that Trump went and bombed the place on this "fake news"?
He made a limited strike against airfield/aircraft with prior warning to the Russians.
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He made a limited strike against airfield/aircraft with prior warning to the Russians.
Which is then followed by Fuckyou Fallon offering a punch up
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-would-ready-fight-war-9174000
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But Assad is winning, or more so than the rebels etc., so why would he do such a provocative actions as this? It doesn't make sense. What makes sense is that it has been concocted by the Allies to try to force Russia to back off from Assad, which is what they are trying to do.
Assad takes no action or ineffective action against him as encouragement to escalate.
Really? That makes no sense given American policy and action prior to the attack by Assad.
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Assad takes no action or ineffective action against him as encouragement to escalate.
Really? That makes no sense given American policy and action prior to the attack by Assad.
And Assad using chemical weapons on the eve of a conference where the US Govt is on the verge of supporting his right to stay makes sense?
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Which is then followed by Fuckyou Fallon offering a punch up
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-would-ready-fight-war-9174000
He's going to jump up and down shouting on the side for two years whilst we get ready? We couldn't even get agreement from the G7 to impose sanctions earlier today.
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He made a limited strike against airfield/aircraft with prior warning to the Russians.
It's the wedge that it provides that is the real problem here, to force Putin to leave Assad out to dry.
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He's going to jump up and down shouting on the side for two years whilst we get ready? We couldn't even get agreement from the G7 to impose sanctions earlier today.
Apparently, but then he isn't the drunk in the street, though he has form on that,he is the defence Secretary
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/visibly-drunk-michael-fallon-had-to-be-forcibly-separated-from-attractive-russian-spy-by-a-minder/
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And Assad using chemical weapons on the eve of a conference where the US Govt is on the verge of supporting his right to stay makes sense?
Strangely it does ... America gives him more room so he uses it.
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It's the wedge that it provides that is the real problem here, to force Putin to leave Assad out to dry.
Is that not what we want anyway?
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Assad takes no action or ineffective action against him as encouragement to escalate.
Really? That makes no sense given American policy and action prior to the attack by Assad.
But he is winning, why fuck it up and risk using chemical weapons?
That's what makes no sense: For Assad to kick himself in the bollocks like this.
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Is that not what we want anyway?
But if it is shown to be a false flag then the West's high ground has gone - oh wait that went decades ago; but if we want Putin to leave Crimea etc. this won't exactly help.
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Strangely it does ... America gives him more room so he uses it.
sorry, you have to expand that?
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sorry, you have to expand that?
With relaxation of American pressure for his removal he furthers his efforts to terrorize the opposition. He has the advantage - Russia is committed to supporting him and is gaining influence, eg with Iran and Turkey, through it.
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Did you hear of Sean Spicers slip up the other day?
He was asked by Kristen Welker of NBC to clarify Trump's administration position on removing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad from power.
“The goal for the United States is twofold, it’s, emm, one, to make sure we destabilise Syria emm.. emm, destabilise the conflict there, reduce the threat of ISIS. But then, secondly, is create the political environment, not just within the Syrian people, but I think you can have, ummm, work with Russia in particular, to make sure that they understand that Syria, backed up by Russia’s own accounting, should be held accountable for the agreements that its made with respect to its international agreements on chemical weapons alone.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9vnE4JWvrU
This guy makes BoJo look more intelligent than an amoeba!!
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And of course this looks as if it were the 'good' baddies but they are on 'our' side. What a mess.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39613313
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Another year and...
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Trump as usual is making a complete idiot of himself, but one which could have dangerous consequences for the whole planet! :o
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Trump as usual is making a complete idiot of himself, but one which could have dangerous consequences for the whole planet! :o
What do you think should be done?
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History repeats itself, etc. I remember the Republicans criticizing Clinton as too war-like.
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History repeats itself, etc. I remember the Republicans criticizing Clinton as too war-like.
And Trump criticised Obama for the same thing. As a year ago, there doesn't seem to be a coherent goal.
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Dear Forum,
Two wee terrorists sitting enjoying there tea " hey brother the plan is working the infidels are doing our job for us".
Gonnagle.
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What do you think should be done?
I don't think dropping missiles is going to help the situation one bit, as it is likely the inncocent who are going to get hurt. Jaw jaw is better than war war!
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I don't think dropping missiles is going to help the situation one bit, as it is likely the inncocent who are going to get hurt. Jaw jaw is better than war war!
Yes, but what do you think should be done?
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Dear Forum,
Two wee terrorists sitting enjoying there tea " hey brother the plan is working the infidels are doing our job for us".
Gonnagle.
Too much credit to individuals here.
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Yes, but what do you think should be done?
They should talk, and then talk some more. Dropping missiles isn't going to deter Assad and his allies. I would have thought TM would have had more sense than to cosy up to the idiot in the White House. Trump gives the impression he is enjoying the situation and might 'nuke' Russia just for fun! >:(
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Trump, Putin and Assad should be made to sit on the naughty step for a very long time.
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Trump, Putin and Assad should be made to sit on the naughty step for a very long time.
Agreed, for all eternity and beyond.
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Agreed, for all eternity and beyond.
If only? It'd be so good if the naughty step could be seen to work in every case as in this situation.
Regards ippy
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Well, we could start out by telling Assad that he can't have his old job back.
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Well, we could start out by telling Assad that he can't have his old job back.
Doesn't he still have it?
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I suppose the NHS may not realise that he has gone yet.
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I doubt the missiles which the US, UK and France have launched have done any good whatsoever, but just increased the tension and the possibility of having a conflict with Russia! :o
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32 years ago today, US airbases in the UK were used to bomb Libya. Plus ça change...
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May reckons the air strikes have been successful, we shall see!
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Trump, May and the other bloke have acted and that nasty Mr Assad can’t do anything bad ever again.
Is this how May thinks you demonstrate strong and stable leadership? Fuck me, even Cameron did a better job of it.
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I wonder how Putin is going to react?
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I wonder how Putin is going to react?
Unintelligently, if it is about his ego as this quote suggests: Russia's ambassador to the US warned that there would be consequences for the US-led military strikes, adding that it was not acceptable to insult Russia's president.
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May reckons the air strikes have been successful, we shall see!
The only ones that will benefit is ISIS.
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So yesterday the Labour Party abstained in its own motion and today they voted against their own motion.
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No matter what one's opinion on Syria, this is an interesting article. Its tone is not disinterested in my opinion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43745629
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No matter what one's opinion on Syria, this is an interesting article. Its tone is not disinterested in my opinion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43745629
It is possible the chemical attack was staged, I suppose.
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It is possible the chemical attack was staged, I suppose.
I think the more interesting problem is about how could one tell what is disinformation. That the article concentrates on pro Assad tweeters could be seen to imply that is a tactic on one side only, which is obviously not the case,
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I think the more interesting problem is about how could one tell what is disinformation. That the article concentrates on pro Assad tweeters could be seen to imply that is a tactic on one side only, which is obviously not the case,
Neither side in this ghastly conflict has much credibility, if any. I think it might be very hard for the independent investigators to suss out the truth.
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This is impressive from Dynamo
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43810740
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This is impressive from Dynamo
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43810740
Good for him. :)
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This is impressive from Dynamo
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43810740
He’s always been an impressive young man. He tackled bullying when he first found fame. His programmes usually have a positive message that feels sincere rather than contrived.
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He’s always been an impressive young man. He tackled bullying when he first found fame. His programmes usually have a positive message that feels sincere rather than contrived.
I had never heard of him before.
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I had never heard of him before.
He's very good but what he is doing in Syria is even better
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e7iYft5Uqrw
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He's very good but what he is doing in Syria is even better
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e7iYft5Uqrw
Not my sort of thing, but he is good at what he does. I wonder if that guy Jesus was some sort of magician, and a very convincing one at that?
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Not my sort of thing, but he is good at what he does. I wonder if that guy Jesus was some sort of magician, and a very convincing one at that?
Irrelevant to thread.