Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on May 05, 2017, 05:10:43 PM
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Hi everyone,
Here is an article about this.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-39785742
Is that a good sign?! :-\
Cheers.
Sriram
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Ah, well, you see. What this is reporting is a significant step along the road to Brexit. Drinking alcohol is a habit practised on the continent. It is one of those pernicious aspects of behaviour which arrived in Britain - along with immigrants - when we joined the Common Market.
We thought we were going to get lots of croissants and speculoos biscuits and French beans from the market in Calais but the Europeans (who are foreign) pulled a fast one on us. Not only did they dump golden delicious apples on us but they poured Pernod and Courvoisier and Asti Spumante all down our throats ... and also that most alien of liquids ... WINE.
Don't forget, we were a nation who drank weak warm ale and weak warm tea almost exclusively. Our national sense of propriety was seriously unbalanced. It had a disastrous effect on us ... and our football fans ...
Our football fans were renowned for their hymn singing and the fact that they had impromptu prayer sessions outside the turnstiles during away fixtures but these foreign places with people eating meals on tables in the street were just too much to comprehend. The very small number who decided to sample the wine just fell apart ... and the abolition of the microscopic duty-free allowance allowed them to bring the stuff in and corrupt their families and friends and neighbours. And they all were totally unprepared for its effects.
So you see, Sriram, Brexit is really being imposed for reasons of strict morality - and its effects can be seen already.
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Ah, well, you see. What this is reporting is a significant step along the road to Brexit. Drinking alcohol is a habit practised on the continent. It is one of those pernicious aspects of behaviour which arrived in Britain - along with immigrants - when we joined the Common Market.
We thought we were going to get lots of croissants and speculoos biscuits and French beans from the market in Calais but the Europeans (who are foreign) pulled a fast one on us. Not only did they dump golden delicious apples on us but they poured Pernod and Courvoisier and Asti Spumante all down our throats ... and also that most alien of liquids ... WINE.
Don't forget, we were a nation who drank weak warm ale and weak warm tea almost exclusively. Our national sense of propriety was seriously unbalanced. It had a disastrous effect on us ... and our football fans ...
Our football fans were renowned for their hymn singing and the fact that they had impromptu prayer sessions outside the turnstiles during away fixtures but these foreign places with people eating meals on tables in the street were just too much to comprehend. The very small number who decided to sample the wine just fell apart ... and the abolition of the microscopic duty-free allowance allowed them to bring the stuff in and corrupt their families and friends and neighbours. And they all were totally unprepared for its effects.
So you see, Sriram, Brexit is really being imposed for reasons of strict morality - and its effects can be seen already.
Before people got into the habit of drinking wine 🍷 it used to be traditional to offer people (guests) a glass of sherry.
It was a bygone age when people had a front room hardly used, that you took guests too, and plied them with a glass of sherry.
Anyone else remember those chilly front rooms? The one with the ornaments that was kept tidy and not used, back when houses had more room, before they built these shoeboxes to live in.
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Ah, well, you see. What this is reporting is a significant step along the road to Brexit. Drinking alcohol is a habit practised on the continent. It is one of those pernicious aspects of behaviour which arrived in Britain - along with immigrants - when we joined the Common Market.
We thought we were going to get lots of croissants and speculoos biscuits and French beans from the market in Calais but the Europeans (who are foreign) pulled a fast one on us. Not only did they dump golden delicious apples on us but they poured Pernod and Courvoisier and Asti Spumante all down our throats ... and also that most alien of liquids ... WINE.
Don't forget, we were a nation who drank weak warm ale and weak warm tea almost exclusively. Our national sense of propriety was seriously unbalanced. It had a disastrous effect on us ... and our football fans ...
Our football fans were renowned for their hymn singing and the fact that they had impromptu prayer sessions outside the turnstiles during away fixtures but these foreign places with people eating meals on tables in the street were just too much to comprehend. The very small number who decided to sample the wine just fell apart ... and the abolition of the microscopic duty-free allowance allowed them to bring the stuff in and corrupt their families and friends and neighbours. And they all were totally unprepared for its effects.
So you see, Sriram, Brexit is really being imposed for reasons of strict morality - and its effects can be seen already.
The common Market was in the 1970's. I thought there was a centuries old tradition in Britain of taverns, pubs.... ale, rum and scotch....!!
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Before people got into the habit of drinking wine 🍷 it used to be traditional to offer people (guests) a glass of sherry.
Oh yes. I had forgotten that. Everybody had a bottle of sherry to offer guests.
And only the best was good enough: VP British Cream Sherry at 3/9p a bottle.
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Pubs. Great. Beer. Large VAT. Lunchtime drinks. Brilliant. The younger generation are mugs.
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I can honestly claim I have never been drunk in my life. I drink alcohol in strict moderation and so does my husband. I cannot see any pleasure in being out of control through drink or waking up with a hangover.
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Yeah, we know. ::)
By-the-way, whst do you mean "out of control"? How do you know if you've never been pissed?
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A rare moment or two of agreement with ad-o.
Sometimes alcohol is the only way.
And before accusations of alcoholism or dependence fly my way, I drink very moderately generally - but there are times when I have to cut loose. It may be a weakness or a flaw but I don't really care.
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A rare moment or two of agreement with ad-o.
Sometimes alcohol is the only way.
And before accusations of alcoholism or dependence fly my way, I drink very moderately generally - but there are times when I have to cut loose. It may be a weakness or a flaw but I don't really care.
Thumbs up. But I'm old school. Pissed off or stressed? A few drinks.😎
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Yeah, we know. ::)
By-the-way, whst do you mean "out of control"? How do you know if you've never been pissed?
Because I have never drunk enough to be anywhere near merry let alone inebriated. These days I have a small glass of sherry three times a week, and a glass of wine very occasionally on a special occasion like Christmas.
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Because I have never drunk enough to be anywhere near merry let alone inebriated. These days I have a small glass of sherry three times a week, and a glass of wine very occasionally on a special occasion like Christmas.
Have a whole bottle.
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Have a whole bottle.
No I certainly wouldn't be that stupid.
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No I certainly wouldn't be that stupid.
You're such a bore.
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You're such a bore.
I am a big fan of drink but if someone doesn't want to why does it bother you?
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You're such a bore.
Why should someone be a bore if they are not stupid enough to drink to excess, which isn't a very sensible thing to do. You claim to be a theist, yet what you are advocating is not exactly in-line with your faith I wouldn't have thought!
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I am a big fan of drink but if someone doesn't want to why does it bother you?
It don't bother me. It's just the way she says it.
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Why should someone be a bore if they are not stupid enough to drink to excess, which isn't a very sensible thing to do. You claim to be a theist, yet what you are advocating is not exactly in-line with your faith I wouldn't have thought!
I'm not a puritan. Alcohol is a gift of God to warm the hearts of men.
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I'm not a puritan. Alcohol is a gift of God to warm the hearts of men.
If so, your god is a freak as alcohol can do so much damage.
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If so, your god is a freak as alcohol can do so much damage.
No. As I said, you're just a bore.
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No. As I said, you're just a bore.
I feel sorry for you, I suppose you can't help being as you are, maybe your weird religion has corrupted you in some way!
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::)
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You're such a bore.
Be careful what you wish for.
North Wales might not be able to cope with an " out of control" Floo ;D
Anyway based on what she sometimes posts, Floo falls over or has an emergency enough as it is, I don't think she needs alcohol to add to the mix.
I seem to remember she has enough moments when she is accident prone, didn't she cut herself with some scissors last time or have a fall? 😜
I seem to remember a post where she had to visit A &E.
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Be careful what you wish for.
North Wales might not be able to cope with an " out of control" Floo ;D
Anyway based on what she sometimes posts, Floo falls over or has an emergency enough as it is, I don't think she needs alcohol to add to the mix.
I seem to remember she has enough moments when she is accident prone, didn't she cut herself with some scissors last time or have a fall? 😜
I seem to remember a post where she had to visit A &E.
Another good reason for me not imbibing too much booze is that I seem to get into enough bother stone cold sober! ;D
I have had many close calls with death since I arrived on this planet, old age hasn't lessened my ability to do something completely crazy, which seemed like a good idea at the time! Although to be fair my last accident was just that when I slipped and fell on the bridle path at the back of our home. I still have limited movement in my right arm. I have been told to exercise it, which is amusing, a chance to rest it would be great! With all I have to do not using it is impossible. My husband and I have been moving furniture again this afternoon, something we seem to do on a regular basis, even though we swear each time we do it, never to move it again! ::)
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No harm in moderate drinking. People have different ideas about what is moderate :D, to me a couple of glasses of wine of an eveening is OK. A little red wine is reputed to be good for the health, that's what I tells meself anyway.
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No harm in moderate drinking. People have different ideas about what is moderate :D, to me a couple of glasses of wine of an eveening is OK. A little red wine is reputed to be good for the health, that's what I tells meself anyway.
I think what many people consider moderate, is what health experts would consider a lot. The units that one should not drink more of during the week has gone down, I believe. Many drinkers would drinking more units than recommended. I thought red wine being good for one's health has been blown out of the water. Apparently people should have at least one, if not more, alcohol free days a week.
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No argument from me there, can't imagine drinking every day. Small wine glasses, not as small as sherry glasses but nowhere near as big as those great goblet things that some people have! In restaurants now they waiter asks if you want a large or small glass if you're not buying a bottle.. Red wine is good for you but not more than a small glass or two.
Wouldn't bother me to give up booze but like Trentvoyager, there are times when it helps to relax.
(How are you after your recent injuyr floo?)
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No argument from me there, can't imagine drinking every day. Small wine glasses, not as small as sherry glasses but nowhere near as big as those great goblet things that some people have! In restaurants now they waiter asks if you want a large or small glass if you're not buying a bottle.. Red wine is good for you but not more than a small glass or two.
Wouldn't bother me to give up booze but like Trentvoyager, there are times when it helps to relax.
(How are you after your recent injuyr floo?)
Read my earlier post 23 where I mention it.
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You're doing well if you'e moving furniture floo! Don't overdo it though. You don't say if you can drive again yet.
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You're doing well if you'e moving furniture floo! Don't overdo it though. You don't say if you can drive again yet.
I have been able to drive since about two days after my injury, thank goodness, as it is my right arm and I can turn the steering wheel without difficulty. If it was my left arm I would be stuffed as I couldn't reach down sufficiently well to change the gears. As for moving the furniture, that is all down to you. ;D You suggested getting rid of the TV so we got rid of the spare one, and moved things around now it is no longer there. I am paying for my efforts yesterday, my arm is more painful, and my back hurts too.
WHEN WILL I EVER LEARN? :o
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Give yourself a couple of days off floo, you need time to heal!
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Give yourself a couple of days off floo, you need time to heal!
I wish, who else is going to do the cooking, the cleaning, the washing etc?
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Hi everyone,
Here is an article about this.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-39785742
Is that a good sign?! :-\
Cheers.
Sriram
Wow! Only 8,000 people in Britain actually drink???? :o ;D
Reality check! Another survey and what if the 8,000 are social drinkers in that they only drink at weddings and Christmas?
We sometimes need to realise the 8,000 surveyed means nothing. Like a drop of water compared to an ocean in the great scheme of things. Sorry Sriram, but 8,000!!!! really?> :o
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I too would find it difficult to believe that only 8,000 people in Britain drink alcohol sassy but the poll doesn't actually say that. What is says is:
"The 2016 poll of nearly 8,000 Britons found just under 60% had had a drink in the past week - the lowest rate since the survey began in 2005.
Of those who had not had a drink, half were teetotallers."
Only 8,000 people took part in the survey anyway, to be almost accurate the entire adult population would have to be questioned. Not everyone answers survey questions truthfully either.
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Only 8,000 people took part in the survey anyway, to be almost accurate the entire adult population would have to be questioned. Not everyone answers survey questions truthfully either.
Is this a subject in which you have expertise, Robinson, or just your uninformed opinion?
A survey involving a demographically-stratified random sample of 8,000 respondents to an appropriately designed and delivered questionnaire is likely to give a very accurate report of population behaviour. It is not necessary to survey the entire population.
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Only 8,000 people took part in the survey anyway, to be almost accurate the entire adult population would have to be questioned. Not everyone answers survey questions truthfully either.
Impractical, for obvious reasons, which is why an essential aspect of research like this is how they obtained their sample, which is where the sampling method used is relevant.
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Yes it would be impractical even impossible; Sassy thought the article stated only 8,000 people here drank, unless I misunderstood her which is why i chipped in because it didn't say that.
The figures came from the ONS which is supposed to collect data reliably.
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Yes it would be impractical even impossible; Sassy thought the article stated only 8,000 people here drank, unless I misunderstood her which is why i chipped in because it didn't say that.
The figures came from the ONS which is supposed to collect data reliably.
No, Sassy was denying the point of sampling and being ignorant of statistics
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Oh fair enough. i'm not a sociologist either so two confused posters.
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Is this a subject in which you have expertise, Robinson, or just your uninformed opinion?
A survey involving a demographically-stratified random sample of 8,000 respondents to an appropriately designed and delivered questionnaire is likely to give a very accurate report of population behaviour. It is not necessary to survey the entire population.
Wishful, thinking in it's element.
Take the entire population of great Britain. Look at 8,000 people in a Muslim area. Look at 8,000 people in a poor area.
Religion and unable to afford it comes to mind.
Is any area completely free of religion or poverty that is not affluent?
Sorry but logical reasoning shows that taking 8,000 people from anywhere does not work to give an accurate reading.
Reality checks often make the acceptable become impossible.
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Yes it would be impractical even impossible; Sassy thought the article stated only 8,000 people here drank, unless I misunderstood her which is why i chipped in because it didn't say that.
The figures came from the ONS which is supposed to collect data reliably.
You misunderstood me... ;D
I was stating that 8,000 people being surveyed does not give a correct result. Thanks for the laugh, Robinson.
But the breweries would be shut by now over here if only 8,000 people drank alcohol. LOL.
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Wishful, thinking in it's element.
Take the entire population of great Britain. Look at 8,000 people in a Muslim area. Look at 8,000 people in a poor area.
Religion and unable to afford it comes to mind.
Is any area completely free of religion or poverty that is not affluent?
Sorry but logical reasoning shows that taking 8,000 people from anywhere does not work to give an accurate reading.
Reality checks often make the acceptable become impossible.
I take it that you're unaware of the various sampling methods used by researchers.
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I take it that you're unaware of the various sampling methods used by researchers.
I think over the years we are aware of sampling results and methods.
We also know not everyone tells the truth.
Surely, Gordon, you are not going to tell me that they a foolproof and without error so perfect?
We know you are not. So what was the point of asking me?
I like you Gordon but sometimes you do say things just for the sake of asking.
If it was not so early, I would say take a bit more water with it, or at least ice.
;D
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I think over the years we are aware of sampling results and methods.
We also know not everyone tells the truth.
Surely, Gordon, you are not going to tell me that they a foolproof and without error so perfect?
We know you are not. So what was the point of asking me?
I like you Gordon but sometimes you do say things just for the sake of asking.
If it was not so early, I would say take a bit more water with it, or at least ice.
;D
In your earlier post you noted 'Look at 8,000 people in a Muslim area. Look at 8,000 people in a poor area.'', either of which would be useless as a representative sample of the general population.
All samples involve a margin of error, which is where the statistical aspects apply.
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Wishful, thinking in it's element.
Take the entire population of great Britain. Look at 8,000 people in a Muslim area. Look at 8,000 people in a poor area.
Religion and unable to afford it comes to mind.
Is any area completely free of religion or poverty that is not affluent?
Sorry but logical reasoning shows that taking 8,000 people from anywhere does not work to give an accurate reading.
Reality checks often make the acceptable become impossible.
Logical reasoning? What does this mean? I certainly cannot see evidence of any in your response.
if you do not know the difference between a population and a sample, if you do not understand the principles of demographic stratification, if you are not adept in the practices of statistical analysis and if you do not know how to define "random" then you are not capable of applying any form of reasoning - be it "logical" or not - to a task such as this.
And then you have to define your data collection methods ...
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Ah sounds like Cosgrove!
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Logical reasoning? What does this mean? I certainly cannot see evidence of any in your response.
if you do not know the difference between a population and a sample, if you do not understand the principles of demographic stratification, if you are not adept in the practices of statistical analysis and if you do not know how to define "random" then you are not capable of applying any form of reasoning - be it "logical" or not - to a task such as this.
And then you have to define your data collection methods ...
Well, that is because you haven't the presence of mind to see the different responses of individuals in the world regarding this issue. The point being made was that a sample cannot represent the whole.
But that would be too easy for you. Your post is more about insulting the other person and not the contents of the post.
You could start collecting data on how many people tend to open their mouth and put their foot in it.
Using yourself for the example when collecting your data... If you have a problem with the logic of this post, don't worry, remove your foot from your mouth and it will become clear to you.
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Well, that is because you haven't the presence of mind to see the different responses of individuals in the world regarding this issue. The point being made was that a sample cannot represent the whole.
Done properly that is what a sample is intended to be (in reflecting the relevant details of the population being studied).
But that would be too easy for you. Your post is more about insulting the other person and not the contents of the post.
You could start collecting data on how many people tend to open their mouth and put their foot in it.
Using yourself for the example when collecting your data... If you have a problem with the logic of this post, don't worry, remove your foot from your mouth and it will become clear to you.
So, as I thought, with this response to HH it is clear that you don't really understand sampling, the related statistics or research methods in general.
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Done properly that is what a sample is intended to be (in reflecting the relevant details of the population being studied).
So, as I thought, with this response to HH it is clear that you don't really understand sampling, the related statistics or research methods in general.
Gordon,
I am sure that sampling the few can never really reflect the masses.
What my reply does not and cannot do is show any lack of understanding.
My view still remains the same and shows that it has NOTHING TO DO with the amount used for the sample in that it did not and cannot reflect the true result it tries to claim.
What I also know is that NO ONE no matter where they are from or what research department they belong to, have the right method for saying Britains are giving up booze when they ask their questions of 8,000 people.
It is illogical for the sampling/questioning of 8,000 people to be an exact method of reflecting the other millions of people.
How many of the 8,000 were child drinkers underage in their teens? So many reasons why just choosing 8,000 people
presumably men and women of the legal age for drinking can never reflect the truth about what Britains drink.
Personally, being a human being is being able to think for ourselves and know why such a survery means absolutely NOTHING
in the scheme of all things in reality.
They could not and did not include all the possibilities when it came to choosing whom they would ask and what they would ask.
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Thus spake Sass! ;D
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Thus spake Sass! ;D
Indeed.
Folly, thou conquerest, and I must yield!
Against stupidity the very gods
Themselves contend in vain
Die Jungfrau von Orleans
Friedrich Schiller
Perhaps, Sassy, you would like to point out the errors in the statistical models, developed over 150 years and empirically tested as rigorously as any other other research device, which are used by behavioural and social science researchers.
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Indeed.
Perhaps, Sassy, you would like to point out the errors in the statistical models, developed over 150 years and empirically tested as rigorously as any other other research device, which are used by behavioural and social science researchers.
First, prove that I am wrong.
As for the ridiculous argument above concerning social science etc. We both KNOW that random selection cannot include this.
Why can't you just accept you are wrong? Because it is me, you hate to lose an argument or to just admit that I could/can be right. But not this time. This time you cannot by any means use such a stupid argument when we are discussing the 8,000 representing the Millions. Even common sense should have told you to avoid that reply.
I have studied more than you think having done sociology amongst other things.
Where did man learn before colleges and teachers? Grow up men are born genius they don't learn it.
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Probability theory shows that for a population of 50,000,000 , if you want to 95% certain that your responses are + or - 2% correct then a randomised stratified sample of 2400 will be required. The reported survey used 8000 subjects - this means that the reliability of the results was considerably enhanced.
This is well supported empirically.
This is a subject in which I do have expertise - you have none.
I note that you rely on "common sense". This is a clear admission of ignorance. When someone says that something is common sense they are effectively saying:
I have no information or expertise in this area but will not let this stop me pontificating about something of which I know nothing.
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Probability theory shows that for a population of 50,000,000 million, if you want to 95% certain that your responses are + or - 2% correct then a randomised stratified sample of 2400 will be required. The reported survey used 8000 subjects - this means that the reliability of the results was considerably enhanced.
This is well supported empirically.
This is a subject in which I do have expertise - you have none.
I note that you rely on "common sense". This is a clear admission of ignorance. When someone says that something is common sense they are effectively saying:
I have no information or expertise in this area but will not let this stop me pontificating about something of which I know nothing.
Common sense can lead people up the garden path! Common sense would suggest if you drop a brick and a small coin together from a height, the brick which is heavier would land first, but of course they both land at the same time.
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Here's the latest on this subject from the ONS-
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/drugusealcoholandsmoking/bulletins/opinionsandlifestylesurveyadultdrinkinghabitsingreatbritain/2005to2016
(floo - if you drop a brick and a small coin together from a height, the brick which is heavier would land first, but of course they both land at the same time.
I didn't know that!)
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(floo - if you drop a brick and a small coin together from a height, the brick which is heavier would land first, but of course they both land at the same time.
I didn't know that!)
First articulated by Galileo. Astronauts on the Moon tried dropping a lead weight and a feather and they both hit the ground at the same time. See also Brian Cox's demonstration in a vacuum chamber.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43-CfukEgs
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Now you have said that &posted the youtube link I do think I knew it but just never thought of it. I'm going to try it through bedroom window with someone standing on ground to judge.
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Is it common sense to expect the brick to land before the coin?
Surely, because of its greater volume and surface area the brick will experience greater air resistance than the very small coin and thus will be slowed down during its descent. The coin will land first.
Common sense ... innit!
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When you put it like that,yes.
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When you put it like that,yes.
Also if you fire a bullet from a gun horizontally and drop a bullet they will still BOTH hit the ground at the same time, albeit the one fired from the gun will be further away!
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That's something I won't try (even if drunk - hic :-[).