Religion and Ethics Forum
Religion and Ethics Discussion => Philosophy, in all its guises. => Topic started by: Free Willy on July 01, 2017, 10:29:38 AM
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I'm wondering if people choose philosophical materialism or forms of moral irrealism because under it they are completely vindicated and such philosophies provide salvation for the ego.
This of course would be impossible in world views and religions which cause for repentance, trust, or at least a start from moral need or need of enlightenment since these call for a recognition of deficit.
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I'm wondering if people choose philosophical materialism or forms of moral irrealism because under it they are completely vindicated and such philosophies provide salvation for the ego.
This of course would be impossible in world views and religions which cause for repentance, trust, or at least a start from moral need or need of enlightenment since these call for a recognition of deficit.
You what luv?
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You what luv?
I'm wondering if people choose philosophical materialism or forms of moral irrealism because under it they are completely vindicated and such philosophies provide salvation for the ego.
This of course would be impossible in world views and religions which cause for repentance, trust, or at least a start from moral need or need of enlightenment since these call for a recognition of deficit.
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Don't use the term 'narcissist' without knowing what the fuck it means.
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Don't use the term 'narcissist' without knowing what the fuck it means.
That's Vlad's vocabulary scaled back to 'yes', 'no' and 'potato', I fear.
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I'm wondering if people choose philosophical materialism or forms of moral irrealism because under it they are completely vindicated and such philosophies provide salvation for the ego.
This of course would be impossible in world views and religions which cause for repentance, trust, or at least a start from moral need or need of enlightenment since these call for a recognition of deficit.
Google translate has been defeated with that one!
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I'm wondering if people choose philosophical materialism or forms of moral irrealism because under it they are completely vindicated and such philosophies provide salvation for the ego.
This of course would be impossible in world views and religions which cause for repentance, trust, or at least a start from moral need or need of enlightenment since these call for a recognition of deficit.
Was this generated by a bot ?
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Was this generated by a bot ?
As in an arse, you mean? ;)
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I'm wondering if people choose philosophical materialism or forms of moral irrealism because under it they are completely vindicated and such philosophies provide salvation for the ego.
This of course would be impossible in world views and religions which cause for repentance, trust, or at least a start from moral need or need of enlightenment since these call for a recognition of deficit.
I would have thought that the ideal philosophy for a egotist or narcissist would be one where you are considered to be chosen and special to some super-human entity (which you cannot actually prove exists) and also that only you and your fellow believers will enjoy eternal paradise while everyone else is consigned to damnation.
Perfect for egotists and narcissists.
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I would have thought that the ideal philosophy for a egotist or narcissist would be one where you are considered to be chosen and special to some super-human entity (which you cannot actually prove exists) and also that only you and your fellow believers will enjoy eternal paradise while everyone else is consigned to damnation.
Perfect for egotists and narcissists.
Great at least somebody spotted my point.
No. Egotists not only want to be the final word in what is but they also want to be the architect of there own greatness with no hint of deference to anything greater.
Poor attempt at reversing the charges Prof.
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No. Egotists not only want to be the final word in what is but they also want to be the architect of there own greatness with no hint of deference to anything greater.
I disagree - surely the greatest ego-trip for an egotist is to invent a superhuman entity and then get that self-made entity tell you how special and chosen you are.
An egotist needs someone to massage that ego - no use getting someone the same as you to do it (how does that demonstrate the egotist to be better or more important) - so much better to make up a deity to massage your ego and to demonstrate how much better and more important you are than mere non-believers. Perfect philosophy for an egotist.
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I disagree - surely the greatest ego-trip for an egotist is to invent a superhuman entity and then get that self-made entity tell you how special and chosen you are.
An egotist needs someone to massage that ego - no use getting someone the same as you to do it (how does that demonstrate the egotist to be better or more important) - so much better to make up a deity to massage your ego and to demonstrate how much better and more important you are than mere non-believers. Perfect philosophy for an egotist.
Misses the component of repentance.
I don't think God is in the ego massaging business.
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Misses the component of repentance.
I don't think God is in the ego massaging business.
Not at all - it's the classic circular argument ego-trip.
Create a deity - get him to tell you that you are 'special' and 'chosen' - all you have to do is worship and repent to the deity you have created (which is, in effect an extension of your own ego). No need to actually bother with the troublesome business of accountability to your fellow people - so much better to be accountable merely to a manifestation of your own super-ego.
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Not at all - it's the classic circular argument ego-trip.
Create a deity - get him to tell you that you are 'special' and 'chosen' - all you have to do is worship and repent to the deity you have created (which is, in effect an extension of your own ego). No need to actually bother with the troublesome business of accountability to your fellow people - so much better to be accountable merely to a manifestation of your own super-ego.
Hark, is that the sound of the straw man cavalry attracted by this post? Well, no.
Logic and reason still favour my thesis.
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Hark, is that the sound of the straw man cavalry attracted by this post? Well, no.
Which translates to 'help - I've been rumbled, have no reasonable report so I'll chuck out the old 'straw-man' diversionary tactic'.
Logic and reason still favour my thesis.
What thesis - you have produced a sentence or two of complete gobbledegook without any cogent argument in support.
By contrast my suggestion (I certain wouldn't call it a thesis - they tend to take years of diligent work to produce) is coherent and logical - the only necessary requirement is an acceptance that deities are created by man (not an unreasonable assumption as there is no evidence that they exist outside of the minds of those who believe in them). From there the notion fits well with the concept of super-ego (look it up if you don't understand what that means) and you are comfortably in the world of the egotist.
To summarise a situation in which an individual creates a deity (or perpetuates this man made deity via super-ego), considers themselves special and chosen in the eyes of this manifestation of their own super-ego and considers themselves morally responsible only to this manifestation of their own super-ego.
Perfect philosophy for an egotist.
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Which translates to 'help - I've been rumbled, have no reasonable report so I'll chuck out the old 'straw-man' diversionary tactic'.
What thesis - you have produced a sentence or two of complete gobbledegook without any cogent argument in support.
By contrast my suggestion (I certain wouldn't call it a thesis - they tend to take years of diligent work to produce) is coherent and logical - the only necessary requirement is an acceptance that deities are created by man (not an unreasonable assumption as there is no evidence that they exist outside of the minds of those who believe in them). From there the notion fits well with the concept of super-ego (look it up if you don't understand what that means) and you are comfortably in the world of the egotist.
To summarise a situation in which an individual creates a deity (or perpetuates this man made deity via super-ego), considers themselves special and chosen in the eyes of this manifestation of their own super-ego and considers themselves morally responsible only to this manifestation of their own super-ego.
Perfect philosophy for an egotist.
Rumbled? No?
Firstly we can apply Ockhams razor to your argument that an egotist needs something greater than themselves, to then repent to, and then follow....when all is needed is the egotist as the self made arbiter of his own magnificence. Not to mention that these three behaviours are one's that we would least expect from an egotist.
Then we have the create a God thing when the egotist already holds that position by their own esteem...Again Ockhams Razor.
Then the invocation of a super ego. Presumably an egotist, definitionally, has less recourse to a super ego than a non egotist and yet here you are bringing one in.
I think you are the one who needs to be looking things up.
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Rumbled? No?
Firstly we can apply Ockhams razor to your argument that an egotist needs something greater than themselves, to then repent to, and then follow....when all is needed is the egotist as the self made arbiter of his own magnificence.
Then we have the create a God thing when the egotist already holds that position by their own esteem...Again Ockhams Razor.
Then the invocation of a super ego. Presumably an egotist, definitionally, has less recourse to a super ego than a non egotist and yet here you are bringing one in.
I think you are the one who needs to be looking things up.
Read the first chapter of the Bible and tell me this isn't the biggest ego trip going. And even more so if, like me, you consider deities as man made creations.
Note in particular verses 26-28.
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Read the first chapter of the Bible and tell me this isn't the biggest ego trip going.
It isn't the biggest ego trip going.
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Whose is - and YOU'RE not counted.? Or me ?!!?!? HA HA
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It isn't the biggest ego trip going.
Lol, Vlad! i liked that one.
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It isn't the biggest ego trip going.
Really - let's summarise.
God creates everything and then decides to create something in his own image, i.e. man (that's a pretty sizeable ego trip if you are man - created in the image of god). And then God tells you that you are in charge of everything else - so not only are you created in the image of God but you have dominion over everything else.
And of course if you consider that God to be actually a creation of man then the ego trip is amplified further - we created a divine entity to tell us that we are divine-like (created in his image) and also to tell us that everything else is our play-thing.
Just in case you've forgotten these are the words (KJV):
'1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.'
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Really - let's summarise.
God creates everything and then decides to create something in his own image, i.e. man (that's a pretty sizeable ego trip if you are man - created in the image of god). And then God tells you that you are in charge of everything else - so not only are you created in the image of God but you have dominion over everything else.
That applies to everyone though and as such is not a doctrine which suits the egotist.
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That applies to everyone though and as such is not a doctrine which suits the egotist.
Firstly that misunderstands what an egotist is. An egotist is a person with an overblown sense of their own importance - you can't really get a more overblown sense of your own important than thinking you are created in the image of god. It matters not whether others also think that too.
But secondly, of course the bible nails this issue pretty quickly - rapidly moving towards a situation where only a few (the chosen ones) are really special in the eyes of god - adding a sense of superiority to the established overblown sense of importance.
So what better philosophy for an egotist than one where you believe that you are special in the eyes of god, created in the image of god and also that you enjoy a special relationship with god that others don't. If you believe all that I think that is entirely consistent with having an overblown sense of your own importance.
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It depends on how you see " made in the image of God"
It can mean just acknowledging that mankind knows the difference between good and bad so being more responsible for your actions.
It could be seen as an ideology which says you should be a better person, rather than an ego thing.
It doesn't have to be a way of having an overblown sense of your own importance.
You can be an atheist and very qualified and have an overblown sense of your own importance.
It depends on the individual.
I think anyone can pick up just about any ideology, religious or otherwise and be very egotistical.
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For me, the more we all go on about the Bible & 'who-what' wrote it that it becomes a work of belief & not based on any facts.
I mean, how can you prove so much if not ALL of books such as Genesis, anyway?
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It depends on how you see " made in the image of God"
It can mean just acknowledging that mankind knows the difference between good and bad so being more responsible for your actions.
It could be seen as an ideology which says you should be a better person, rather than an ego thing.
It doesn't have to be a way of having an overblown sense of your own importance.
You can be an atheist and very qualified and have an overblown sense of your own importance.
It depends on the individual.
I think anyone can pick up just about any ideology, religious or otherwise and be very egotistical.
I never said that all believers in the biblical notion of god and man being created in his image were egotists - that would be a non-sense statement.
What I said was that a philosophy which suggests that that individual is chosen, special, god-like and enjoys a special relationship with an all-powerful god may be particularly appealing to an egotist. And if you consider that god doesn't actually exist but is a manifestation of the super-ego then all the more appealing as the individual is having a special relationship with a part of themselves.
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Firstly that misunderstands what an egotist is. An egotist is a person with an overblown sense of their own importance - you can't really get a more overblown sense of your own important than thinking you are created in the image of god.
You are missing the point. It is the believer who believes that EVERYONE is made in the image of God. It is therefore of no, relative, big deal. As a means of making an egotist feel, well, special in that overblown way, it is a completely useless doctrine.
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You are missing the point. It is the believer who believes that EVERYONE is made in the image of God. It is therefore of no, relative, big deal. As a means of making an egotist feel, well, special in that overblown way, it is a completely useless doctrine.
I disagree - if you have an overblown sense of your own importance adopting a philosophy that panders to that view by implying you are made in the image of god (regardless of whether others are too) and are special in the eyes of a divine entity is going to appeal rather more than, for example, a philosophy that suggests that an individual is a tiny irrelevance, around for mercy a blink of an eye on a temporary infinitesimally-small rock in an infinite universe.
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I disagree - if you have an overblown sense of your own importance adopting a philosophy that panders to that view by implying you are made in the image of god (regardless of whether others are too) and are special in the eyes of a divine entity is going to appeal rather more than, for example, a philosophy that suggests that an individual is a tiny irrelevance, around for mercy a blink of an eye on a temporary infinitesimally-small rock in an infinite universe.
But you are NOT special because everybody is made in the image of God.....
As for the last part. Those that hold to it in my experience don't reflect the humility that comes with it and also, like ''Created in God's'' image you aren't handling the fullness of this naturalistic philosophy namely the Darwinian and Neitszchian components which definitely favour the egotist and Narcissist superman....
Top of the morning to you.
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But you are NOT special because everybody is made in the image of God.....
Oh so according to your religion everyone, regardless of their belief and what they have done in their lives will end up in the special VIP area of the afterlife, bigging it up with god and the saints etc. Everyone? I don't think that's what your religion teaches - it (in an Orwelian manner) teaches that all are equal, but some are more equal (i.e. special in the eyes of god) than others.
That's going to appeal to an egotist - sign up to this philosophy and confirm to yourself that you are really, really important - so much more so than the humanists who will be snivelling around in the afterlife festival mud by the chemical toilets while we sip champaign in the afterlife VIP lounge.
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Oh so according to your religion everyone, regardless of their belief and what they have done in their lives will end up in the special VIP area of the afterlife, bigging it up with god and the saints etc. Everyone? I don't think that's what your religion teaches - it (in an Orwelian manner) teaches that all are equal, but some are more equal (i.e. special in the eyes of god) than others.
That's going to appeal to an egotist - sign up to this philosophy and confirm to yourself that you are really, really important - so much more so than the humanists who will be snivelling around in the afterlife festival mud by the chemical toilets while we sip champaign in the afterlife VIP lounge.
You seem to be confusing beliefs here. Mankind is made in the image of God, that's all of mankind, you , me, everyone, regardless of race, colour or creed (and some of the more enlightened of us believe that includes womankind as well).
The afterlife is another matter between you and God.
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You seem to be confusing beliefs here. Mankind is made in the image of God, that's all of mankind, you , me, everyone, regardless of race, colour or creed (and some of the more enlightened of us believe that includes womankind as well).
The afterlife is another matter between you and God.
But we are discussing a whole philosophy, not simply a single aspect of a philosophical belief system.
And, of course the very notion that a particular philosophy indicates you might have a direct relationship with a all powerful deity, and that this deity may personally intervene in your life and personally offer you a place in the VIP lounge of heavenly paradise, while refusing it to others is right up the street of an egotist. What better way to demonstrate your importance that to belief you have a hot-line to the 'big man in the sky'.