Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on July 04, 2017, 09:16:47 PM
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Just about the boredom
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40492305
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If I was an immigrant I'd jump at the chance, not just because of the boredom but because the resulting " pocket money" could be spent on personal luxury items, such as perfume , a lipstick etc.
I doubt anyone supplies those things.
Also it complains they will be taking jobs away from people doing it for a reasonable wage, well not necessarily.
There might be a job that needs doing but there is no job opportunity there.
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Work like a slave for a bit of lippy. Makes sense in today's Britain.
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If I was an immigrant I'd jump at the chance, not just because of the boredom but because the resulting " pocket money" could be spent on personal luxury items, such as perfume , a lipstick etc.
I doubt anyone supplies those things.
Also it complains they will be taking jobs away from people doing it for a reasonable wage, well not necessarily.
There might be a job that needs doing but there is no job opportunity there.
Once the competition for the jobs heat up just watch market forces take over. 50p an hour next?
Would you jump at that chance also?
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Once the competition for the jobs heat up just watch market forces take over. 50p an hour next?
Would you jump at that chance also?
If you were an immigrant stuck in one of those camps, you'd jump at anything.
A lot of them are escaping far worse situations than three meals a day.
You took my post out of context, didn't you?
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If you were an immigrant stuck in one of those camps, you'd jump at anything.
A lot of them are escaping far worse situations than three meals a day.
You took my post out of context, didn't you?
Why does that justify treating people like indentured slaves?
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Why does that justify treating people like indentured slaves?
It doesn't, my point was people with nothing are prepared to work very hard for next to nothing or a few luxuries.
If I was in their position I would too.
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It doesn't, my point was people with nothing are prepared to work very hard for next to nothing or a few luxuries.
If I was in their position I would too.
And therefore you support the govt treating people as indentured slaves
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And therefore you support the govt treating people as indentured slaves
Where did I say that?
My point is if I was as badly off as they are, I would jump at the chance to improve my current situation.
I suppose you would rather they didn't have even little opportunities to improve their lot?
🙄
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And therefore you support the govt treating people as indentured slaves
I don't suppose it would occur to you that this idea might have come from the immigrants themselves?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/608358/Ter-Apel-Migrants-Refugee-Netherlands-Crisis-Croatia-Hungary-European-Union
I don't suppose it's much more fun being in one in the uk.
They want a few luxuries, what's wrong with them earning it?
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Exploitation isn't 'improving your lot'.
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Of course the irony is that while 'detained' they aren't allowed to work. No asylum seeker is. Yet most want to.
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Where did I say that?
My point is if I was as badly off as they are, I would jump at the chance to improve my current situation.
I suppose you would rather they didn't have even little opportunities to improve their lot?
🙄
So the Govt treats people as indentured slaves, and you seem to think that is OK, so you support yteayong people as indentured slaves
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Exploitation isn't 'improving your lot'.
It depends how bad your current situation is.
People still want a few luxuries.
Even if it just consists of a packet of cigarettes
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So the Govt treats people as indentured slaves, and you seem to think that is OK, so you support yteayong people as indentured slaves
Stop twisting my words Nearly Sane.
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It depends how bad your current situation is.
No, it precisely doesn't.
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Stop twisting my words Nearly Sane.
How did I twist your words? you think the govt is acting OK, and they are treating people like indentured slaves.
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How did I twist your words? you think the govt is acting OK, and they are treating people like indentured slaves.
No, I said if I was an immigrant I would jump at the chance.
Not the same thing!
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No, I said if I was an immigrant I would jump at the chance.
Not the same thing!
To be treated like an indentured slave.
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Half of the country is doing exploitive things that earn them a pittance, if it suits them.
Lots of women sell Avon or sell Betterware. Those at one level are exploitive, but people do it too earn a few hard earned luxuries.
What's the difference?
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Half of the country is doing exploitive things that earn them a pittance, if it suits them.
Lots of women sell Avon or sell Betterware. Those at one level are exploitive, but people do it too earn a few hard earned luxuries.
What's the difference?
Why does someone else doing something bad justify other's doing it?
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Why does someone else doing something bad justify other's doing it?
Are you really this annoying in RL too?
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If you were an immigrant stuck in one of those camps, you'd jump at anything.
A lot of them are escaping far worse situations than three meals a day.
You took my post out of context, didn't you?
All I asked was would you jump at the chance of a 50p an hour job.
Would you?
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Are you really this annoying in RL too?
Much much worse. Now if you would try and answer the question rather than evade it, it all becomes easier.
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My DS son has a token payment of £3 for working two days a week at an electrical company run by the Social Service department. They pack goods for big name electrical companies. The money the companies pay the SS helps them deliver good care to people like our son, which we can't fault.
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Why does someone else doing something bad justify other's doing it?
Do you have an objection to someone being able to earn a small amount of money for luxuries, while they have been given bed and board by the state?
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Do you have an objection to someone being able to earn a small amount of money for luxuries, while they have been given bed and board by the state?
I object to slave labour. Any chance you will answer the question that was asked?
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I object to slave labour. Any chance you will answer the question that was asked?
How?
I don't think immigrants being allowed to do something to earn a small amount of pocket money to earn a few luxuries and prevent boredom, is indentured slavery.
For a start, it's voluntary.
Secondly they get paid for it, slaves don't.
I don't think the idea was to use them as slaves or cheap labour.
I'm not talking full time work.
This is more along the lines of pocket money.
You always push things to such an extreme you lose the plot!
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How?
I don't think immigrants being allowed to do something to earn a small amount of pocket money to earn a few luxuries and prevent boredom, is indentured slavery.
For a start, it's voluntary.
Secondly they get paid for it, slaves don't.
I don't think the idea was to use them as slaves or cheap labour.
I'm not talking full time work.
This is more along the lines of pocket money.
You always push things to such an extreme you lose the plot!
They are not children and don't need to be 'allowed' to do work. They are de facto being used as cheap labour.
I note you again didn't answer the question.
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You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)
People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.
Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited. It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.
We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.
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If you were an immigrant stuck in one of those camps, you'd jump at anything.
A lot of them are escaping far worse situations than three meals a day.
You took my post out of context, didn't you?
All I asked was would you jump at the chance of a 50p an hour job.
Would you?
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You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)
People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.
Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited. It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.
We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.
These people are asylum seekers, not criminals and rat infested 'accommodation' scarcely qualifies as 'bed and board'.
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All I asked was would you jump at the chance of a 50p an hour job.
Would you?
Stop trying to make it something it's not.
Thousands of people opt for about 50p hour when they choose to do something like selling Avon or Christmas cards.
You never make much for the amount of time you spend going around other people's houses.
People do it because they don't mind and it brings in a few bob to spend on luxuries.
So yes, when my children were small, I was happy to do those things.
If I was an immigrant, so unable to work, yes I'd be happy to do something to get myself some luxuries.
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You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)
People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.
Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited. It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.
We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.
You could, mmm, I don't know just pay them decently for their work.
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Stop trying to make it something it's not.
Thousands of people opt for about 50p hour when they choose to do something like selling Avon or Christmas cards.
You never make much for the amount of time you spend going around other people's houses.
People do it because they don't mind and it brings in a few bob to spend on luxuries.
So yes, when my children were small, I was happy to do those things.
If I was an immigrant, so unable to work, yes I'd be happy to do something to get myself some luxuries.
Leaving aside your conflation of immigrants and asylum seekers, something that is all too common, that they aren't allowed to work is a legal position which should not be got round by paying them slave wages.
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You could, mmm, I don't know just pay them decently for their work.
In the case of prisoners, no. They are already getting bed and board and colour TVs.
Pensioners don't get that if they have to stay in hospital for more than a certain number of weeks. They get their pension taken away, and if they don't have family and rent they can lose their home.
Why on earth would we keep prisoners, and pay them a decent wage as well?
At least I have some sympathy for immigrants, and pensioners, prisoners don't deserve a decent wage, they are being punished.
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Leaving aside your conflation of immigrants and asylum seekers, something that is all too common, that they aren't allowed to work is a legal position which should not be got round by paying them slave wages.
It's not slave labour, it's pocket money.
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It's not slave labour, it's pocket money.
Keep telling yourself that, maybe it will help you sleep at night while you support paying slave wages to the downtrodden.
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It's not slave labour, it's pocket money.
It's slave labour because it is jobs that are essential and should be advertised and recruited at the minimum wage. It's slave labour because those that do the work can't get proper jobs even though they have done *nothing* wrong. Many will be victims of beatings and torture.
And it isn't pocket money. They are adults (again, who have done *nothing* wrong) and who deserve to be treated with the same dignity as you or I.
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In the case of prisoners, no. They are already getting bed and board and colour TVs.
Pensioners don't get that if they have to stay in hospital for more than a certain number of weeks. They get their pension taken away, and if they don't have family and rent they can lose their home.
Why on earth would we keep prisoners, and pay them a decent wage as well?
At least I have some sympathy for immigrants, and pensioners, prisoners don't deserve a decent wage, they are being punished.
Didn't day they did, I was talking about the asylum seekers who you think should be treated like prisoners.
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Didn't day they did, I was talking about the asylum seekers who you think should be treated like prisoners.
🙄
I never said anything like that ::)
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It's slave labour because it is jobs that are essential and should be advertised and recruited at the minimum wage. It's slave labour because those that do the work can't get proper jobs even though they have done *nothing* wrong. Many will be victims of beatings and torture.
And it isn't pocket money. They are adults (again, who have done *nothing* wrong) and who deserve to be treated with the same dignity as you or I.
Being in an immigration centre isn't that then, is it?
Nothing at all like being treated with dignity, like you and me. I know they haven't done anything wrong, never said they had.
They already are not being treated to the same dignity as you and I, they are in immigration centres.
You are blind to that bit, obviously.
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🙄
I never said anything like that ::)
How is saying that prisoners are paid low wages, and therefore it is OK to pay asylum seekers (BTW not immigrants) that OK, not exactly that?
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It was me that brought up prisoners actually and maybe not a fair comparison to asylum seekers who haven't committed crimes.
I was merely thinking that they too are people who work for a pittance. I got the impression that Rose thought it was not a particularly fair comparison because of the difference in status.
Asylum seekers who are living in centres are presumably not allowed to go out and get jobs in the same way as us, pay tax, etc. They are temporarily housed, given food and medical care, any little money is a welcome extra & probably even an interest while they wait.
No-one pretends its an ideal situation. I'd like to hear what ex-asylum seekers who have been in that situation think about it.
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It was me that brought up prisoners actually and maybe not a fair comparison to asylum seekers who haven't committed crimes.
I was merely thinking that they too are people who work for a pittance. I got the impression that Rose thought it was not a particularly fair comparison because of the difference in status.
Asylum seekers who are living in centres are presumably not allowed to go out and get jobs in the same way as us, pay tax, etc. They are temporarily housed, given food and medical care, any little money is a welcome extra & probably even an interest while they wait.
No-one pretends its an ideal situation. I'd like to hear what ex-asylum seekers who have been in that situation think about it.
So if we stop people earning, they should be grateful for any crumbs thet might get a chance at?
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You're certainly right there Rose! (Your last post)
People in prison who have jobs receive very small pay too. They have bed & board but the paid work they do saves someone paying a non-prisoner a lot more for doing same. Some of the jobs would be done abroad anyway if not by HMP residents.
Getting a job in prison is something a lot of them compete for, they don't think about being exploited. It means they have more money to buy a few things, like you say, pocket money.
We could debate situation ethics ad infinitum but at the end of the day having a few bob is better than no bob & it's not forever.
No way should prisoners be paid for the work they do! >:(
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No way should prisoners be paid for the work they do! >:(
Quite right. Flog them toll they drop in their tracks. EVIL SCUM.
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;D
They don't earn much floo. It's not unreasonable for someone to, say, be assembling feather dusters, putting the heads on and packaging them, to be paid something by those who will eventually be distributing them to high street shops at profit. It also helps develop a work ethic in some people who have never had legitimate work. What would they do otherwise? Theink of the saying - "Devil makes work for idle hands" (even tho' you may not believe in a literal devil ;). Occupation is good & it helps prison staff to maintain a calmer atmosphere.
However the point of this thread (my fault for going off on tangent about prisoners), is whether or not asylum seekers who have jobs are exploited by being paid a pittance. Has anyone asked them how they feel about it?
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Quite right. Flog them toll they drop in their tracks. EVIL SCUM.
Why should they be paid, when they owe a debt to society, which is why they are in prison in the first place?
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Why should they be paid, when they owe a debt to society, which is why they are in prison in the first place?
Yes quite right. EVIL SCUM.8
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Why aren't these types on the treadmill and picking oakum as prisoners are supposed to do?
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Trent - Evil Scum 8 ay? Sound like heavy metal-ers.
Shaker - too much like hard work mate! They'd be out on strike.
floo, are asylum seekers who have jobs are exploited by being paid a pittance. Has anyone asked them how they feel about it?
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Trent - Evil Scum 8 ay? Sound like heavy metal-ers.
Shaker - too much like hard work mate! They'd be out on strike.
floo, are asylum seekers who have jobs are exploited by being paid a pittance. Has anyone asked them how they feel about it?
I wasn't talking about criminals who get their board and lodgings for free, not asylum seekers, who should be paid the living wage.
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Trent - Evil Scum 8 ay? Sound like heavy metal-ers.
Shaker - too much like hard work mate! They'd be out on strike.
floo, are asylum seekers who have jobs are exploited by being paid a pittance. Has anyone asked them how they feel about it?
No not heavy metal. It is the latest installment in a very luctative film franchise directed by none other than Floo Flooster whose examination of the rigid nature of our penal policies is very enlightening with its talk of Evil Scum, Sicko's, weirdo's and the like. Floo F. Has a repergoire in emotional language that runs the gamut from A to A.
A most underrated director.
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No not heavy metal. It is the latest installment in a very luctative film franchise directed by none other than Floo Flooster whose examination of the rigid nature of our penal policies is very enlightening with its talk of Evil Scum, Sicko's, weirdo's and the like. Floo F. Has a repergoire in emotional language that runs the gamut from A to A.
A most underrated director.
I have no idea what you are talking about?
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;D
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I'm happy with the idea of asylum seekers receiving the living wage for work, carefully so they are under tax threshold - hopeuflly, before they are granted asylum.
In the meantime, working for less is better than nothing.
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I'm happy with the idea of asylum seekers receiving the living wage for work, carefully so they are under tax threshold - hopeuflly, before they are granted asylum.
In the meantime, working for less is better than nothing.
So it would be fine to pay them a penny an hour? After all it's better than nothing.