Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 02:23:07 PM

Title: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 02:23:07 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-41011908

Really?  ::)
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: floo on August 22, 2017, 02:25:28 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-41011908

Really?  ::)

I really can't believe they would be so pathetic to refuse the money because the guys were having a bit of fun!
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 02:27:56 PM
It's dated and it's not funny but it's not the most terribly offensive thing either. Surely this is one instance where the good outweighs the bad.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: floo on August 22, 2017, 02:39:24 PM
It's dated and it's not funny but it's not the most terribly offensive thing either. Surely this is one instance where the good outweighs the bad.

What isn't funny?
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Shaker on August 22, 2017, 02:49:17 PM
Men in nurse's uniforms. It's a bit 1974, really. But still, unfunny or not, it was in a good cause and I'd like to think that those who turned £2500 would be ashamed, though I doubt it.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 02:51:08 PM
Men in nurse's uniforms. It's a bit 1974, really. But still, unfunny or not, it was in a good cause and I'd like to think that those who turned £2500 would be ashamed, though I doubt it.

The bigger picture is the loss of goodwill. In future people just won't bother, and the only ones hit will be the patients.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Udayana on August 22, 2017, 03:11:05 PM
Surely it's fine to demean anyone and portray them as clowns as long you bung them some cash after? This is the 21st century now!
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 03:15:20 PM
Surely it's fine to demean anyone and portray them as clowns as long you bung them some cash after? This is the 21st century now!

Is that what they were doing?
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: floo on August 22, 2017, 03:24:05 PM
I had to wear one of those uniforms when I gave nursing a go in 1968. Yes they were a pain in the neck, and I am glad all nurses, both male and female, wear something much more suitable these days. But I can't for the life of me see why Rhi thinks there is something unfunny, or even offensive, about the guys dressing up like that.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Udayana on August 22, 2017, 03:25:27 PM
Is that what they were doing?

Whos to say? That was why the money was turned down.

As they had been asked not to raise money in that way I would have thought they could raise just as much or maybe more in an manner acceptable to the manager.

Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Udayana on August 22, 2017, 03:26:09 PM
I had to wear one of those uniforms when I gave nursing a go in 1968. Yes they were a pain in the neck, and I am glad all nurses, both male and female, wear something much more suitable these days. But I can't for the life of me see why Rhi thinks there is something unfunny, or even offensive, about the guys dressing up like that.

I think you've misread Rhi here.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 03:35:55 PM
Whos to say? That was why the money was turned down.

As they had been asked not to raise money in that way I would have thought they could raise just as much or maybe more in an manner acceptable to the manager.

We only have the word of the spokeswoman that they were asked to do something different, and even if a message was sent (how?) that doesn't mean to say it reached those that it needed to. People don't deliberately cause offence to organisations that they are trying to support.

Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: floo on August 22, 2017, 04:05:51 PM
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/second-hand-coffin-sale-wrexham-13512006

I do find this unpleasant!
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Shaker on August 22, 2017, 04:51:33 PM
Whos to say? That was why the money was turned down.
The money was turned down by people - specifically, a named person - who thought that something "demeaning" was being done by people who (actually doing that thing) didn't think it was demeaning. In other words, the money was turned down by the vicariously offended.

Quote
As they had been asked not to raise money in that way I would have thought they could raise just as much or maybe more in an manner acceptable to the manager.
Perhaps the manager was just being a pious and overly sensitive arsehole? There's enough evidence to satisfy me.

When raising money for charity people dress up as everything from Fred Flintstone to fruits and vegetables and make a tit of themselves for a few hours which they accept with good grace because I would dare to say that most people intuitively grasp the concept of good causes and a greater good - namely, that a few hours outside Boots with a plastic bucket, dressed as a six-foot carrot, is no great shakes compared to drumming up a few quid for disabled hamsters or what have you - whatever the charity may be. This chief executive doesn't seem to be in that number.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Robbie on August 22, 2017, 05:23:59 PM
I really can't believe they would be so pathetic to refuse the money because the guys were having a bit of fun!

Quite!

I had to wear one of those uniforms when I gave nursing a go in 1968. Yes they were a pain in the neck, and I am glad all nurses, both male and female, wear something much more suitable these days. But I can't for the life of me see why Rhi thinks there is something unfunny, or even offensive, about the guys dressing up like that.

Not sure Rhiannon objected - not her taste but she thought people were petty to object. As do I& prob'ly many others.

i lurve Shaker's 04:51:31 post!
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 06:41:18 PM
The most up-to-date version of the link has nurses saying that they are not offended.

Fgs, this is big hairy men dressing up and making themselves look daft in a good cause, not Page Three girls kitted out like saucy nurses a la Are You Being Served. Not hysterically funny, maybe a bit tedious, but nothing like as tedious as waiting in Outpatients or Minor Injuries for someone to fetch an ECG machine from elsewhere in the hospital - something that patients at this hospital can continue to look forward to now.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Shaker on August 22, 2017, 06:46:07 PM
The most up-to-date version of the link has nurses saying that they are not offended.
I for one didn't expect them to be. I know a few nurses; it's no profession for girlies, you know.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 06:51:30 PM
I for one didn't expect them to be. I know a few nurses; it's no profession for girlies, you know.

I tried a google search in case this is a 'thing' that nurses are bothered by - nothing doing except this one incident.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Rhiannon on August 22, 2017, 06:55:07 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/22/health-trust-turns-down-demeaning-fancy-dress-nurses-donation

Dr Freeman is right, women shouldn't be objectified.

These aren't women though and i don't see how they are objectifying anyone. Except possibly the Two Ronnies.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Shaker on August 22, 2017, 06:58:53 PM
Fgs, this is big hairy men dressing up and making themselves look daft in a good cause.
aka Friday night.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Steve H on August 22, 2017, 10:39:19 PM
This is the sort of nonsense that plays right into the hands of the Daily Hate-mail, and for once I'd be inclined to agree with them.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Udayana on August 22, 2017, 11:37:09 PM
The money was turned down by people - specifically, a named person - who thought that something "demeaning" was being done by people who (actually doing that thing) didn't think it was demeaning. In other words, the money was turned down by the vicariously offended.
Perhaps the manager was just being a pious and overly sensitive arsehole? There's enough evidence to satisfy me.

When raising money for charity people dress up as everything from Fred Flintstone to fruits and vegetables and make a tit of themselves for a few hours which they accept with good grace because I would dare to say that most people intuitively grasp the concept of good causes and a greater good - namely, that a few hours outside Boots with a plastic bucket, dressed as a six-foot carrot, is no great shakes compared to drumming up a few quid for disabled hamsters or what have you - whatever the charity may be. This chief executive doesn't seem to be in that number.
er .. that's all jolly fine if you know the person who your dealing with is going to accept the fruits of your efforts. Otherwise, I guess, you just do what you want to then batter anyone objecting on social media.   

On what basis were they claiming that money collected was for such and such a cause if they did not have the approval of the organisation they claimed they were collecting for?


Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Owlswing on August 22, 2017, 11:41:39 PM

This is the sort of nonsense that plays right into the hands of the Daily Hate-mail, and for once I'd be inclined to agree with them.


Yeah! You would!

I (SteveH) don't like it so no-one can do it! Who cares about the lost money/equipment it would have bought that the hospital is clearly not going to fund itself - maybe the idiot who turned the money down (clearly neither a doctor nor a nurse and thus earning at least twice or three times what a nurse does) can give the money herself?.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Steve H on August 22, 2017, 11:45:05 PM
Yeah! You would!

I (SteveH) don't like it so no-one can do it! Who cares about the lost money/equipment it would have bought that the hospital is clearly not going to fund itself - maybe the idiot who turned the money down (clearly neither a doctor nor a nurse and thus earning at least twice or three times what a nurse does) can give the money herself?.
What on earth are you on about? I was criticising the hospital, and on the side of the fund-raisers, which I'd've thought was obvious from my post.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Owlswing on August 22, 2017, 11:52:08 PM

What on earth are you on about? I was criticising the hospital, and on the side of the fund-raisers, which I'd've thought was obvious from my post.


Quote
. . . the hands of the Daily Hate-mail, and for once I'd be inclined to agree with them.

I read this as your agree with the DHM!
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Robbie on August 22, 2017, 11:52:23 PM
It was obvious to anyone with half a brain steveH.

As for the idiot turning down the money being someone earning two or three times what a nurse earns Owlswing,you could be right in this case but make no mistake there are some well paid nursing jobs around, depends on their training,experience and grading,like most other professions.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Steve H on August 22, 2017, 11:55:25 PM
I read this as your agree with the DHM!
Sigh. The Mail would probably condemn the hospital for its "politically correct" (to use their tiresome phrase) attitude, and just for once they'd be  right. As it happens, though, I checked, and they reported it with uncharacteristic even-handedness.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Owlswing on August 23, 2017, 01:10:10 AM

Sigh. The Mail would probably condemn the hospital for its "politically correct" (to use their tiresome phrase) attitude, and just for once they'd be  right. As it happens, though, I checked, and they reported it with uncharacteristic even-handedness.


Maybe they need to see a nurse for a check-up?
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Nearly Sane on August 23, 2017, 06:40:06 AM
I am presuming the comments that it was 'demeaning' meant that it was demeaning not to the people taking part but to women nurses by presenting a 'sexist' idea of them,  possibly too it could be seen as mocking transgender. If they had dressed up in blackface and sung Camptown Races, there would probably be more agreement with the point, though 40 years ago that too might have been descried  as PC have slipped the bounds of sanity.

There does not seem to be a push from women nurses or transgender people to see this sort of thing as oppressive, and in that absence the decision seems to have been taken on preventative offence taking on others behalf. This seems unwise.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Free Willy on August 23, 2017, 09:40:42 AM
How about this for a scenario for a thriller.
Tories on an NHS trust plan to discredit political correctness which they think is labour by gussying up an extreme example of it.
Press whip this up, public think oh no is this life under Labour and at next election duly drop trousers and touch toes.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Sebastian Toe on August 23, 2017, 10:30:34 AM
How about this for a scenario for a thriller.
Tories on an NHS trust plan to discredit political correctness which they think is labour by gussying up an extreme example of it.
Press whip this up, public think oh no is this life under Labour and at next election duly drop trousers and touch toes.
More like a Brian Rix farce than a thriller surely?
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Owlswing on August 23, 2017, 12:45:44 PM

More like a Brian Rix farce than a thriller surely?


Or a Carry On?

Or a Jerry Lewis?
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: ippy on August 23, 2017, 12:59:31 PM
I suppose there'll always be some miserable, humourless, prigs about, best to just sweep round them.

Can't say it was my idea of fun but so what, it was a gesture full of good intent to be applauded.

ippy
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Robbie on August 24, 2017, 03:18:45 PM
I suppose there'll always be some miserable, humourless, prigs about, best to just sweep round them.

Can't say it was my idea of fun but so what, it was a gesture full of good intent to be applauded.

ippy

Well said ippy.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on August 26, 2017, 01:00:49 PM
Yes, cutting off their nose to spite their faces. I can understand an ex service persons charity not wanting money from EDL/BNP, but this refusal is just plain silly.
Title: Re: Cutting off their nose?
Post by: Steve H on August 26, 2017, 01:48:26 PM
I read this as your agree with the DHM!
Sigh... Yes, and I was assuming that the Mail would be on the side of the fund-raisers.