Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Walt Zingmatilder on September 15, 2017, 09:40:54 AM

Title: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on September 15, 2017, 09:40:54 AM
Apparent fireball on tube train. Reports of Burns and tramplings in the panic.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 15, 2017, 10:08:01 AM
Apparent fireball on tube train. Reports of Burns and tramplings in the panic.
it's times like this I wish my daughter didn't live and work in London . I have to weigh up the fact that a young girl from the Yorkshire Dales is living her dream against the risks. She sent a text to say she was okay which helps !
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: trippymonkey on September 15, 2017, 10:32:36 AM
About 8-30 this morning on a West London tube train.
Seems it was inside a box in a large bag. Doesn't look like anyone seriously hurt SO FAR although one man was taken away on a stretcher.
Our prayers & ALL best wishes go to all affected by this outrage. >:(

http://www.independent.co.uk/?S2ref=1602344

Nick
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: floo on September 15, 2017, 11:04:26 AM
I hope no one has been seriously injured in this latest terrorist atrocity. :o
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: floo on September 15, 2017, 11:25:38 AM
I have nephews who work in offices in London, so with more and more terrorist incidents it is a concern, especially for their parents.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: trippymonkey on September 15, 2017, 11:26:01 AM
Later news confirms some injuries but some will have been caused by sheer panic.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Rhiannon on September 15, 2017, 11:37:51 AM
We're all still more at risk every time we get in our cars though.

Looks like a bit of a bodge so far. My thoughts are with all those affected, it's deeply traumatising.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 15, 2017, 12:01:54 PM
We're all still more at risk every time we get in our cars though.

Looks like a bit of a bodge so far. My thoughts are with all those affected, it's deeply traumatising.


And the rate of terrorism over time is probably not what people expect.


http://www.datagraver.com/case/people-killed-by-terrorism-per-year-in-western-europe-1970-2015
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: floo on September 15, 2017, 12:14:15 PM
It appears no one has been seriously injured in this incident, thank goodness.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: JP on September 15, 2017, 01:30:53 PM
It appears no one has been seriously injured in this incident, thank goodness.

Unless you are the one with severe burns then you may see it differently. I suspect the true level of injuries will be played down and the incident downgraded for the sake of fuck knows.

All part and parcel of life in a big city according to the mayor.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: floo on September 15, 2017, 03:15:45 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41283984

May has told Trump off for making stupid, unhelpful tweets about the incident.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Shaker on September 15, 2017, 04:08:26 PM
"I never think it's helpful for anybody to speculate on what is an ongoing investigation."

Well that's told him.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Shaker on September 15, 2017, 04:28:01 PM
Unless you are the one with severe burns then you may see it differently. I suspect the true level of injuries will be played down and the incident downgraded for the sake of fuck knows.
Unfortunately, 'fuck knows' isn't sufficient for me at least. If you "suspect the true level of injuries will be played down and the incident downgraded" you must have what you regard as some reason for suspecting that "the true level of injuries will be played down and the incident downgraded". What is it?
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: jeremyp on September 15, 2017, 04:35:02 PM
it's times like this I wish my daughter didn't live and work in London . I have to weigh up the fact that a young girl from the Yorkshire Dales is living her dream against the risks. She sent a text to say she was okay which helps !

Stories like this tend to exaggerate the risk. Thirty six people dead from terrorist attacks this year. In 2015, 136 people died in road accidents (https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2016/june/road-casualties-in-london-continue-to-fall-but-concerns-remain-about-motorbike-collisions) in London alone.  You should be more concerned that your daughter looks both ways before crossing the road. However, even there, with something like nine million people living in London, the risk is not that high.

Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Shaker on September 15, 2017, 04:36:56 PM
Don't you go bringing facts into it.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: jeremyp on September 15, 2017, 04:37:24 PM
Unless you are the one with severe burns then you may see it differently. I suspect the true level of injuries will be played down and the incident downgraded for the sake of fuck knows.

No. The government will exaggerate the dangers and play the incident up. This is so that, when they erode our civil liberties even further we will just say "yes ma'am".
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: jeremyp on September 15, 2017, 04:42:09 PM
Don't you go bringing facts into it.
Sorry but I can't help it. This whole things scares me but not for the apparently obvious reason. I'm scared that my freedom will be severely curtailed in the name of protecting us from terrorists. 
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 15, 2017, 06:07:59 PM
Stories like this tend to exaggerate the risk. Thirty six people dead from terrorist attacks this year. In 2015, 136 people died in road accidents (https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2016/june/road-casualties-in-london-continue-to-fall-but-concerns-remain-about-motorbike-collisions) in London alone.  You should be more concerned that your daughter looks both ways before crossing the road. However, even there, with something like nine million people living in London, the risk is not that high.
well thanks for that , you cunt!
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Shaker on September 15, 2017, 06:39:25 PM
Sorry but I can't help it. This whole things scares me but not for the apparently obvious reason. I'm scared that my freedom will be severely curtailed in the name of protecting us from terrorists.
Well, yes.

Just about every time that civil liberties are either actually curtailed or threatened to be curtailed it's done in the name of an -ist of some variety - communist, terrorist, Islamist ... you name it.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: floo on September 16, 2017, 08:19:17 AM
May has raised the terror threat level to critical.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Rhiannon on September 16, 2017, 08:22:38 AM
That happened a good twelve hours ago Floo.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Rhiannon on September 16, 2017, 11:16:16 AM
Police have arrested an idiotic 18 yr old.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41292528
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: JP on September 16, 2017, 04:01:28 PM
No. The government will exaggerate the dangers and play the incident up. This is so that, when they erode our civil liberties even further we will just say "yes ma'am".

What civil liberties have been eroded?

Also why call it an 'incident'. Why not an attempted terrorist attack or bombing. Why call it an 'IED' instead of a bomb (and yes I know it is improvised but it is still a bomb). Why not release a picture of the person they are seeking so the wider public can assist. Who is the 18 year old has been arrested, not a name perhaps but a bit more detail like when they arrested the serving members of the Army a few weeks back they were arresting " extremist far right Nazis" but this one is only an 18 year old.

Downplaying.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 16, 2017, 04:09:33 PM
Well said JP
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Rhiannon on September 16, 2017, 04:50:07 PM
They can't give more detail in case it screws up the investigation. The terror threat wasn't raised to 'imminent' because of a bunch of neo nazi losers, but because there could be people linked to this dipstick ready to attack at any time. Trump might not know that but users of this forum should.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Robbie on September 16, 2017, 07:12:31 PM
it's times like this I wish my daughter didn't live and work in London . I have to weigh up the fact that a young girl from the Yorkshire Dales is living her dream against the risks. She sent a text to say she was okay which helps !

London is huge, Walter. Terrorist attacks have happened but the chances of most of us being in one are minimal.  Does she live or work near Parsons Green?   

Other parts of the country have been affected.  We can either go around worrying that no-one is safe and staying indoors - or get on with life.

However I sympathise with how you feel.  Both my daughters work in London, one central but commutes from Blackheath, the other lives and works in West London as does my niece;  my sister works at Waterloo, one of her sons is a student in central London;  my husband's firm is in central London.  I don't think any of them believe they are in danger.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 16, 2017, 10:39:50 PM
They can't give more detail in case it screws up the investigation. The terror threat wasn't raised to 'imminent' because of a bunch of neo nazi losers, but because there could be people linked to this dipstick ready to attack at any time. Trump might not know that but users of this forum should.
Yes Miss  ::)
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: JP on September 16, 2017, 10:51:26 PM
Reports suggest he is a refugee held by police two weeks ago but released.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: trippymonkey on September 17, 2017, 08:31:36 AM
Latest News.
They have a guy....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41298116

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/16/dover-arrest-parson-green-tube-bomb
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: jeremyp on September 18, 2017, 08:44:28 PM
well thanks for that , you cunt!
What was that for?
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 18, 2017, 08:49:34 PM
What was that for?
I took it as ironic for you highlighting the danger his daughter is in generally.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: jeremyp on September 18, 2017, 08:52:58 PM
What civil liberties have been eroded?
Our rights to go about our lawful daily business without government poking its nose in or interfering. Our right to a fair trial before being incarcerated for any significant time. Our right to use secure end to end encryption in our online transactions. Our right to get on an aeroplane without a virtual strip-search.

Quote
Also why call it an 'incident'.
Because it is an incident.
Quote
Why not an attempted terrorist attack or bombing. Why call it an 'IED' instead of a bomb (and yes I know it is improvised but it is still a bomb).
Because it was an IED. Fortunately, it turned out not to be a bomb although that was unintentional on the part of the attempted murderer.

Quote
Why not release a picture of the person they are seeking so the wider public can assist. Who is the 18 year old has been arrested, not a name perhaps but a bit more detail like when they arrested the serving members of the Army a few weeks back they were arresting " extremist far right Nazis" but this one is only an 18 year old.

Downplaying.
You'll have to ask the police that.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: jeremyp on September 18, 2017, 08:53:57 PM
I took it as ironic for you highlighting the danger his daughter is in generally.
I thought I was saying his daughter was in no real danger.

Oh well.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 18, 2017, 08:56:09 PM
I thought I was saying his daughter was in no real danger.

Oh well.

I take it you don't have a daughter?
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 18, 2017, 11:06:54 PM
London is huge, Walter. Terrorist attacks have happened but the chances of most of us being in one are minimal.  Does she live or work near Parsons Green?   

Other parts of the country have been affected.  We can either go around worrying that no-one is safe and staying indoors - or get on with life.

However I sympathise with how you feel.  Both my daughters work in London, one central but commutes from Blackheath, the other lives and works in West London as does my niece;  my sister works at Waterloo, one of her sons is a student in central London;  my husband's firm is in central London.  I don't think any of them believe they are in danger.
I know you mean well but.................... if it works for you!

if anyone hurt my daughter I would find and kill them.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Rhiannon on September 18, 2017, 11:18:29 PM
I thought I was saying his daughter was in no real danger.

Oh well.

No, what you did was point out that she faces a greater threat than terrorism.

The difference is only that most of don't change our behaviour hugely as a result of hearing about an RTA, even though there are more of them then terror attacks. Our perception of risk is different. It doesn't make anyone in less danger.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 18, 2017, 11:57:13 PM
No, what you did was point out that she faces a greater threat than terrorism.

The difference is only that most of don't change our behaviour hugely as a result of hearing about an RTA, even though there are more of them then terror attacks. Our perception of risk is different. It doesn't make anyone in less danger.
terrorism is an extra threat to add to all the others . one that as individuals ,we have no control over , the others we do.
That's the difference. That's why it holds more fear.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 19, 2017, 12:04:01 AM
And in the case of my family the daughter I refer to has ,only 7 years ago, experienced an horrific incident that almost took her life when she was only 14 years old.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Rhiannon on September 19, 2017, 01:04:06 AM
terrorism is an extra threat to add to all the others . one that as individuals ,we have no control over , the others we do.
That's the difference. That's why it holds more fear.

We have little or no control over most things that are a threat. Control and safety are often illusory.

I think what shocks with terrorism is that it is intentional and comes from a place of hate.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Rhiannon on September 19, 2017, 01:06:25 AM
And in the case of my family the daughter I refer to has ,only 7 years ago, experienced an horrific incident that almost took her life when she was only 14 years old.

I'm sorry to hear this. I nearly lost my daughter at birth and later her sister had some serious health scares. It's hard not to want to put them in a box and keep them safe.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 19, 2017, 01:42:38 AM
I'm sorry to hear this. I nearly lost my daughter at birth and later her sister had some serious health scares. It's hard not to want to put them in a box and keep them safe.
letting them go and make their own way in the world is often quite difficult . Hiding that from them and showing encouragement is a dilemma I'm sure most parents experience but we must do it .
Acts of terrorism is one risk variable too many though.
Title: Re: Parsons Green incident
Post by: Walter on September 19, 2017, 01:45:14 AM
I'm sorry to hear this. I nearly lost my daughter at birth and later her sister had some serious health scares. It's hard not to want to put them in a box and keep them safe.
you have my sympathy Rhi.