Religion and Ethics Forum

Religion and Ethics Discussion => Theism and Atheism => Topic started by: Enki on September 30, 2017, 07:01:24 PM

Title: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Enki on September 30, 2017, 07:01:24 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/30/archbishop-of-canterbury-accused-of-hypocrisy-by-sexual-abuse-survivors

1)a man who shows a remarkable penchant for hypocrisy
or
2) a man who is so far out of his depth that his ignorance shines like a beacon
or
3) a man of integrity who knows what he is talking about

Which would you choose? Please feel free to add to this list if you so wish.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Gordon on September 30, 2017, 07:18:09 PM
I suspect he is indulging in special pleading and that he, and possibly others, also regard his opinion as being somehow authoritative: so his pronouncements are fallacious on at least two counts, and there may well be an argument from ignorance involved as well.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Rhiannon on September 30, 2017, 09:32:22 PM
Tbh my reaction is, why the hell pick that fight? Seems utterly bizarre, not simply ignorant.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: SusanDoris on October 01, 2017, 07:20:24 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/30/archbishop-of-canterbury-accused-of-hypocrisy-by-sexual-abuse-survivors

1)a man who shows a remarkable penchant for hypocrisy
or
2) a man who is so far out of his depth that his ignorance shines like a beacon
or
3) a man of integrity who knows what he is talking about

Which would you choose? Please feel free to add to this list if you so wish.
The first two I think. There was a most interesting interview on Radio Five Live last night when Stephen Nolan  gave plenty of air time to a woman who met Welby - she thinks he is such a hypocrite that she refuses to refer to him by his title - and asked some strong questions and he came back with feeble replies. She speaks to teachers and others in order to help reduce the amount of child abuse that goes on in CofE schools for example. She didn't tip-toe around any points and, well, more power to her, say I. Her sons were victims.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Owlswing on October 01, 2017, 11:31:15 AM

Why is it that the Churches, Catholic and Anglican cannot follow the policy of the broadcasting organisations that suspend employees accused of child sexual abuse until that have been exonerated in a court of law?

Why are priests and nuns etc allowed to continue working with potential victims while the Church finds a way to pull a full cover-up?
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Udayana on October 01, 2017, 12:05:35 PM
The first two I think. There was a most interesting interview on Radio Five Live last night when Stephen Nolan  gave plenty of air time to a woman who met Welby - she thinks he is such a hypocrite that she refuses to refer to him by his title - and asked some strong questions and he came back with feeble replies. She speaks to teachers and others in order to help reduce the amount of child abuse that goes on in CofE schools for example. She didn't tip-toe around any points and, well, more power to her, say I. Her sons were victims.
Maybe Wellby is "getting back" at the BBC then?
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Rhiannon on October 01, 2017, 12:25:42 PM
Maybe Wellby is "getting back" at the BBC then?

Then he's an idiot.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: floo on October 01, 2017, 12:39:05 PM
I think Welby is one of the  good guys. He marked George Carey's card for him recently, as Carey apparently turned a blind eye when a paedophile priest was brought to his attention, when he was Archbishop.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Gordon on October 01, 2017, 12:42:17 PM
Even if he is a decent guy he's surely aware of what people in glass houses should definitely avoid doing.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: floo on October 01, 2017, 01:36:54 PM
Even if he is a decent guy he's surely aware of what people in glass houses should definitely avoid doing.

It wasn't a good idea for Welby to point a finger at the BBC when the CofE has a problem with paedophilia in its ranks too.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Rhiannon on October 01, 2017, 02:09:43 PM
I think Welby is one of the  good guys. He marked George Carey's card for him recently, as Carey apparently turned a blind eye when a paedophile priest was brought to his attention, when he was Archbishop.

Good people still do weak, foolish and immoral things.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: floo on October 01, 2017, 02:14:36 PM
Good people still do weak, foolish and immoral things.

No good person is a paedophile.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Rhiannon on October 01, 2017, 02:18:24 PM
No good person is a paedophile.

I was talking about Welby.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: floo on October 01, 2017, 02:22:39 PM
I was talking about Welby.

WHOOPS
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: bluehillside Retd. on October 01, 2017, 03:20:30 PM
Floo?

Quote
No good person is a paedophile.

Do you think paedophiles choose their preferences? No good person practising paedophilia perhaps would be have been a better construction.   

As for Welby - both the BBC and the CofE behaved badly at the time, but the Beeb seems to me to have behaved significantly better than the church after the event by being open and transparent in admitting its mistakes and putting in place measures to stop it happening again.   
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: floo on October 01, 2017, 03:29:35 PM
Floo?

Do you think paedophiles choose their preferences? No good person practising paedophilia perhaps would be have been a better construction.   

As for Welby - both the BBC and the CofE behaved badly at the time, but the Beeb seems to me to have behaved significantly better than the church after the event by being open and transparent in admitting its mistakes and putting in place measures to stop it happening again.

I think the BBC has been in denial about the part it has played in allowing perverts to flourish!
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: Robbie on October 01, 2017, 03:48:20 PM
The BBC were in denial and covered up for decades but in days gone by no-one wanted to believe what was happening and it was beyond most peoples' comprehension!

George Carey didn't believe that Bishop was guilty of molesting young chaps, it wasn't that he wanted to cover up abuse.  He's learned differently now of course as have so many.
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: floo on October 01, 2017, 03:50:26 PM
There is NO excuse for Carey not having thoroughly investigated the allegations!
Title: Re: Integrity, Welby and the BBC
Post by: bluehillside Retd. on October 01, 2017, 03:52:07 PM
Floo,

Quote
I think the BBC has been in denial about the part it has played in allowing perverts to flourish!

I think they were in "denial" at the time certainly, but their response now seems much better to me than that of the church.