Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Rhiannon on October 27, 2017, 09:34:55 AM
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/27/jfk-files-british-paper-got-anonymous-call-just-before-assassination
No idea why I find this so interesting, but I do.
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Oh no, more fuel for conspiracy theories!
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/27/jfk-files-british-paper-got-anonymous-call-just-before-assassination
No idea why I find this so interesting, but I do.
All very intriguing.
I guess there are two aspects to this that could render it unremarkable. First is the timing - presumably this was identified as interesting after the event - it could be that the timing was wrong and actually the call came in after the shooting and based on inside information direct to Dallas.
Secondly, of course, coincidences happen and they are only recognised as such when they aline with something remarkable. So this kind of call doesn't seem to have been unusual - indeed there is mention of another one, against remarked on as it seemed relevant to the Profumo case. How many others went completely unremarked. If there were plenty then potentially we are just putting too much attention onto the 'pattern' and the coincidence.
Finally - there were other significant events on 22nd Nov 1963 which were overshadowed by Kennedy. Notably the deaths of both Aldous Huxley and C S Lewis. Perhaps significantly the former died in the USA and it is plausible that the call might have referred to knowledge that Huxley was on his death bed.
Also that day there was a momentous scheduled event - the first television signals broadcast from the USA to Japan. Again the call could have referred to this event, which was planned (and actually took place) later in the day.
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No, it must show there was a conspiracy and a cover up featuring the CIA the Mafia, Lord Lucan and aliens. Surely :-)
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All very intriguing.
I guess there are two aspects to this that could render it unremarkable. First is the timing secure - presumably this was identified as interesting after the event - it could be that the timing was wrong and actually the call came in after the shooting and based on inside information direct to Dallas.
That I think would depend on whether you do or don't believe that MI5 would get something so basic so badly wrong:
“The British security service (MI-5) has reported that at 18:05 GMT on 22nd November an anonymous telephone call was made in Cambridge, England, to the senior reporter of the Cambridge News.
The caller said only that the Cambridge News reporter should call the American embassy in London for some big news and then hung up [...] The important point is that the call was made according to MI-5 calculations, about 25 minutes before the president was shot.
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That I think would depend on whether you do or don't believe that MI5 would get something so basic so badly wrong:
I don't think there were the kind of time-stamped telephone calls back then, so presumably they would have been relying on the the reporter who received the call to indicate the time received. Certainly the article seems to indicate that the timing of the call was based on notes on a memo - and that memo was dated 26th Nov, so 4 days later.
I'm not saying that the timing was wrong, but it is certainly a possibility.
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/27/jfk-files-british-paper-got-anonymous-call-just-before-assassination
No idea why I find this so interesting, but I do.
To be politely honest I actually couldn't give a flying.......
not about you Rhi, the subject ! obviously mwah!
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To be politely honest I actually couldn't give a flying.......
not about you Rhi, the subject ! obviously mwah!
Don't read or post on the thread then.
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It does say MI5 calculated the time it was received and calculations always depend on the quality of the input information so it could be wrong.
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... there were other significant events on 22nd Nov 1963 which were overshadowed by Kennedy. Notably the deaths of both Aldous Huxley and C S Lewis. Perhaps significantly the former died in the USA and it is plausible that the call might have referred to knowledge that Huxley was on his death bed.
This to me seems implausible on the grounds that the death of Huxley - who certainly had the American connection - wouldn't really register as "big news" for the vast majority of the population. For example: a few weeks ago Sir Peter Hall died; certainly a notable thing for those interested in theatre, but unremarkable for everybody else forming - in my estimation - by far the great majority. (I strongly suspect that if surveyed most people would say "Peter who?").
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It does say MI5 calculated the time it was received and calculations always depend on the quality of the input information so it could be wrong.
... on the other hand, I would expect journalists even on local papers to be pretty much on the ball as regard issues of fact such as times etc. The article in the OP doesn't name the journalist concerned but does say he - it was almost certainly a he - was a senior reporter.
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Don't read or post on the thread then.
I wanted others to know there is another view point on the subject , just in case they were nervous in coming forward .
'Its ok not to care'' ::) ::) ::)
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This to me seems implausible on the grounds that the death of Huxley - who certainly had the American connection - wouldn't really register as "big news" for the vast majority of the population. For example: a few weeks ago Sir Peter Hall died; certainly a notable thing for those interested in theatre, but unremarkable for everybody else forming - in my estimation - by far the great majority. (I strongly suspect that if surveyed most people would say "Peter who?").
Whether something is 'big news' is highly subjective and someone making a call might think so even if a newspaper or the general public might disagree.
Certainly the nature - and premeditation - of Huxley's death would under other circumstances have been newsworthy and also might have lead to someone wanting to remain anonymous - given that it was effectively down to lethal dose of LSD given by his wife over the day or so prior to his death. With links to Timothy Leary - who had, himself become notorious in the preceding months.
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... on the other hand, I would expect journalists even on local papers to be pretty much on the ball as regard issues of fact such as times etc. The article in the OP doesn't name the journalist concerned but does say he - it was almost certainly a he - was a senior reporter.
You may expect that, but since it says they had to calculate the time this sounds not to be the case. Without knowing the full story it is hard to judge, and one unclear piece of 'evidence' such as this shouldn't carry too much weight surely.
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I wanted others to know there is another view point on the subject , just in case they were nervous in coming forward .
'Its ok not to care'' ::) ::) ::)
But as we discussed not many days back in relation to the Strictly Come Dancing thread, going onto a thread to announce how much you're not interested in the subject of the thread is very odd behaviour.
Perhaps it deserves its own thread ::)
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I wanted others to know there is another view point on the subject , just in case they were nervous in coming forward .
'Its ok not to care'' ::) ::) ::)
Don't think so.
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... on the other hand, I would expect journalists even on local papers to be pretty much on the ball as regard issues of fact such as times etc. The article in the OP doesn't name the journalist concerned but does say he - it was almost certainly a he - was a senior reporter.
Interestingly if you look at the BBC article the newspaper itself seem a bit bemused by this:
'"It would have been common knowledge in the office who took the call, but we have nothing in our archive - we have nobody here who knows the name of the person who took the call," she said.
In a video posted on the newspaper's website, chief reporter Chris Elliott, said "no one has ever been able to establish whether that call was actually made" but the fact that it might have been made came to light in the 1980s.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-41773716
It seems odd to me that there is no recollection from the newspaper of this incident - surely if this had happened it would have been all over the newsroom floor - spreading like wildfire that 'Joe Bloggs' - senior reporter - had received this bizarre phone call and less than an hour later they were getting reports of the shooting. It seems strange that although the FBI apparently knew all about this just 4 days later it doesn't seem to have developed any credence in the newspaper itself until 2 decades later.
All I can say is Grenfell baby story.
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The Cambridge News has changed hands and is now part of a huge regional publishing group. There’s no continuity to the past and, if my experiences with local media are anything to go by, not much interest or instinct for a story.
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You can read the whole memo here:
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/mystery-call-made-cambridge-news-13818309
Make of it what you will. However note that the there is a pretty convoluted reporting line - un-named senior reporter speaks to Cambridge Police - they report to 'Jaguar' (presumably a MI5 secret service agent) and he reports to FBI who send memo to FBI Director.
If it was reported via Cambridge Police, presumably they would have had records.
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I like some of the comments at the bottom of that web page :)
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The Cambridge News has changed hands and is now part of a huge regional publishing group. There’s no continuity to the past and, if my experiences with local media are anything to go by, not much interest or instinct for a story.
That may be the case recently - that isn't really my point. I am struggling to see how a senior reporter could have received such a call which within an hour seems to be so astonishingly significant and for it not to have become widespread knowledge across the paper within hours. It seems very odd that the story only appears to have gained visibility in the newspaper in the 80s and more widely now.
And the memo suggests that the reporter reported this to the Police within hours - did he keep complete schtum on the newsroom floor. I get your point about local newspapers, but the assassination of Kennedy was massive (do you remember where you were when you heard kind of event) it beggars belief that the Cambridge Evening News wouldn't have recognised this as the biggest news story in years - and yet they seems to have received this bizarre phone call and no-one in the paper seemed to know anything about it except one reporter.
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Secondly, of course, coincidences happen and they are only recognised as such when they aline with something remarkable.
There are no such things as coincidences! If you believe in coincidences, then you have removed all reason for believing in miracles, answers to prayer, and conspiracy theories! Oh, wait...
Seriously, the only correct response the the vast majority of miracle or conspiracy-theory believers who say, as they so often do, "bit of a coincidence, don't you think?" is "yes, it is - not even very much of a coincidence, just a bit of one".
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There are no such things as coincidences! If you believe in coincidences, then you have removed all reason for believing in miracles, answers to prayer, and conspiracy theories! Oh, wait...
Seriously, the only correct response the the vast majority of miracle or conspiracy-theory believers who say, as they so often do, "bit of a coincidence, don't you think?" is "yes, it is - not even very much of a coincidence, just a bit of one".
i went to the supermarket at 4 o clock the other day and was surprised to see so many others there at the same time as me
Wow , what a coincidence , I thought to myself !
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i went to the supermarket at 4 o clock the other day and was surprised to see so many others there at the same time as me
Wow , what a coincidence , I thought to myself !
:o :D
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The whole thing's a cover to stop us researching the fact that Al Fayed and the Illuminati used the Moon as a staging post for a mission to Nibiru.
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The whole thing's a cover to stop us researching the fact that Al Fayed and the Illuminati used the Moon as a staging post for a mission to Nibiru.
Shhh Jim!
This is supposed to secret (very very secret in fact) and all sorts could be reading this.
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Shhh Jim!
This is supposed to secret (very very secret in fact) and all sorts could be reading this.
;D
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Shhh Jim!
This is supposed to secret (very very secret in fact) and all sorts could be reading this.
Wot- like dem clever buggers wot know no-one's landed on the moon, you mean?
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Wot- like dem clever buggers wot know no-one's landed on the moon, you mean?
Especially them!