Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Science and Technology => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on November 02, 2017, 06:03:41 PM

Title: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 02, 2017, 06:03:41 PM
Let's hope we don't kill this one off.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/41847356
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Shaker on November 02, 2017, 06:22:23 PM
We will, most likely.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 02, 2017, 06:24:46 PM
Yes, I fear you are correct
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on November 02, 2017, 08:03:08 PM
Let's hope we don't kill this one off.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/41847356
Will you be flying out to recruit for religionethics?
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 03, 2017, 02:37:27 PM
Let's hope we don't kill this one off.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/41847356

Have we killed any off? I don't think that we can beat ourselves up about Gigantopithecus.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 03, 2017, 02:42:41 PM
Have we killed any off? I don't think that we can beat ourselves up about Gigantopithecus.
There are 800 currently. They are the most endangered great ape species. We reduce orangutan habitat continually through our use of palm oil
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 03, 2017, 03:02:11 PM
Thank you for the clarification  :)
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 03, 2017, 04:44:00 PM
Will you be flying out to recruit for religionethics?
To find you a chum on the same intellectual level most likely!
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 03, 2017, 04:45:05 PM
To find you a chum on the same intellectual level most likely!

How insulting!
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Sebastian Toe on November 03, 2017, 05:04:29 PM
How insulting!
I apologise to the orangutans of the world.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: floo on November 03, 2017, 05:40:56 PM
I apologise to the orangutans of the world.

Those poor orang-utans must be devastated by that very rude remark of yours, I am so glad you have apologised to them. ;D
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on November 03, 2017, 07:52:26 PM
Those poor orang-utans must be devastated by that very rude remark of yours, I am so glad you have apologised to them. ;D
I hear they've declined the offer to post on religionethics because they only have dial up.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Walter on November 04, 2017, 05:24:22 AM
Let's hope we don't kill this one off.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/41847356
as I was reading the BBC article I had a thought wash over me

I wonder what they actually know, and how can we find out ? Do they know things we don't?
When they look at the stars do they know more about their place in the universe than we do ?
Secretly , I'd like to think they do and humans are not as smart as we like to think we are !!!
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Shaker on November 04, 2017, 06:20:04 AM
Chimps and orangs are tricky to test for. We already know that humans are not as smart as they like to think they are.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 04, 2017, 07:45:53 AM
as I was reading the BBC article I had a thought wash over me

I wonder what they actually know, and how can we find out ? Do they know things we don't?
When they look at the stars do they know more about their place in the universe than we do ?
Secretly , I'd like to think they do and humans are not as smart as we like to think we are !!!

We are a weird species. We have been outstandingly cruel to orangutans, raping their habitat for a number of reasons, notably palm oil and because we can, mistreating individuals, beating them, torturing them, keeping them as 'pets' in cages so small that the bars have grown into them.

But some of us, fight for their protection and dedicate their life to looking after them at great personal danger.


Those times where I have been lucky enough to see into the eyes of an orangutan and being part of being observed as I observe, there has seem more in common between us than thousands of times I have done the same with members of my own species.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Shaker on November 04, 2017, 09:22:01 AM
We are a weird species. We have been outstandingly cruel to orangutans, raping their habitat for a number of reasons, notably palm oil and because we can, mistreating individuals, beating them, torturing them, keeping them as 'pets' in cages so small that the bars have grown into them.

But some of us, fight for their protection and dedicate their life to looking after them at great personal danger.


Those times where I have been lucky enough to see into the eyes of an orangutan and being part of being observed as I observe, there has seem more in common between us than thousands of times I have done the same with members of my own species.
Amen.

So to speak.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Walter on November 04, 2017, 02:55:50 PM


Quote
Those times where I have been lucky enough to see into the eyes of an orangutan and being part of being observed as I observe, there has seem more in common between us than thousands of times I have done the same with members of my own species.


hmmmm ,and it makes me wonder

Stairway to heaven ........Led Zeppelin
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: SusanDoris on November 04, 2017, 04:48:24 PM
Tangent question: The title  is a new species of orangutan I understand that a new species can only be called that if it cannot interbreed with the other. Is this the case here?
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 04, 2017, 04:54:01 PM
Tangent question: The title  is a new species of orangutan I understand that a new species can only be called that if it cannot interbreed with the other. Is this the case here?
That's the general approach but it's not actually correct, the concept of ring species shows this.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Shaker on November 04, 2017, 05:08:59 PM
Tangent question: The title  is a new species of orangutan I understand that a new species can only be called that if it cannot interbreed with the other.
That's Ernst Mayr's Biological Species Concept (stemming from IIRC about 1942), easily the best known and most widely held definition of species. However, defining a species is a notoriously tricky and slippery thing and the BSC doesn't hold in all cases. (It's no use with bacteria, for example).
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Shaker on November 04, 2017, 05:12:59 PM
That's the general approach but it's not actually correct, the concept of ring species shows this.
[pedantry alert]Now don't go confusing things; you know that's a special case[/pedantry]
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on November 04, 2017, 05:17:44 PM
That's Ernst Mayr's Biological Species Concept (stemming from IIRC about 1942), easily the best known and most widely held definition of species. However, defining a species is a notoriously tricky and slippery thing and the BSC doesn't hold in all cases. (It's no use with bacteria, for example).

It gets confusing with humans too, the perpetual "lumpers" v "splitters" arguments.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: SusanDoris on November 04, 2017, 05:19:19 PM
Thank you for replies.
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: jeremyp on November 04, 2017, 06:22:48 PM
New species of orangutan
Or perhaps not

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/11/03/a-new-species-of-orangutan-i-doubt-it/
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Walter on November 04, 2017, 06:49:47 PM
Or perhaps not

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/11/03/a-new-species-of-orangutan-i-doubt-it/
a brat link Jeremyp
As ever unless the media can sensationalise something it's not real "news"
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: jeremyp on November 04, 2017, 07:46:05 PM
a brat link Jeremyp
What?
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Walter on November 04, 2017, 07:59:46 PM
What?
OOps that was meant to say "great"
Predictive text  is a bugger sometimes 😱
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 05, 2017, 08:32:37 AM
Yes, 'brat' link, Jeremyp.  I wonder if to some extent this has political aspects, given the threat to orangutans generally. Anyway, it's  a prompt to note that it is soon going to be Orangutan Awareness Week

http://www.orangutan.org.uk/how-to-help/orangutan-awareness-week
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Walter on November 05, 2017, 12:46:56 PM
Yes, 'brat' link, Jeremyp.  I wonder if to some extent this has political aspects, given the threat to orangutans generally. Anyway, it's  a prompt to note that it is soon going to be Orangutan Awareness Week

http://www.orangutan.org.uk/how-to-help/orangutan-awareness-week
are they of Scottish extraction, NS?  ;)
Title: Re: New species of orangutan
Post by: Nearly Sane on November 05, 2017, 08:05:23 PM
are they of Scottish extraction, NS?  ;)
Anything that ginger must be  ;)