Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on January 04, 2018, 12:31:42 PM
-
Eloquent blog on whataboutmenery.
http://www.victimfocus.org.uk/blog/4593418266
-
Eloquent blog on whataboutmenery.
http://www.victimfocus.org.uk/blog/4593418266
What tends to happen is that feminists write about something such as domestic violence, potential supporters point out that the same affects men & boys as well as women & girls, and then some (not all) feminists carry on as if their ball has been taken away.
-
What tends to happen is that feminists write about something such as domestic violence, potential supporters point out that the same affects men & boys as well as women & girls, and then some (not all) feminists carry on as if their ball has been taken away.
And the prize for wgataboutmenery goes to HWB.
-
Thank you, I will wear that badge with pride.
-
Thank you, I will wear that badge with pride.
it goes along with the Didn't read the article badge and Just hit the table with my knee t shirt.
-
Eloquent blog on whataboutmenery.
http://www.victimfocus.org.uk/blog/4593418266
NS, you've got too much time on your hands ::)
-
NS, you've got too much time on your hands ::)
No, I'm just very quick
-
No, I'm just very quick
so it's not just a rumour then ;)
-
Sharp article. I think whataboutery is rife on the internet. If you talk about X, somebody usually pops up and asks 'what about Y?'. OK, sometimes it's OK to have a comparison, but more often, I think it's a deliberate derail. You will find it on a thread not a million miles away from here.
I'm not all that surprised by the reactions she got. Some men have a weird mixture of entitlement and inferiority, see some of the men's rights people.
-
so it's not just a rumour then ;)
That I'm fast at reading - nope. It does on occasion lead to a premature ejaculation of 'Oh FFS!' but then that's the benefit. Any comment on the article?
-
That I'm fast at reading - nope. It does on occasion lead to a premature ejaculation of 'Oh FFS!' but then that's the benefit. Any comment on the article?
what? like I don't know why her husband allows her to write articles and publish them while he's sitting at the table with an empty plate waiting for his dinner . I don't know what the world's coming to !
-
It's an interesting article about sexism and I agree with a lot of it...
... but what about racism?
-
It's an interesting article about sexism and I agree with a lot of it...
... but what about racism?
Jeremy,
Feminists do not care about racism, any more than feminists care about the disabled.
Feminists care about the XX population, the rest do not matter.
Because the rest of us no not matter, because the rest of us have "privilege".
Don't take my word, ask a feminist.
-
Jeremy,
Feminists do not care about racism, any more than feminists care about the disabled.
Feminists care about the XX population, the rest do not matter.
Because the rest of us no not matter, because the rest of us have "privilege".
Don't take my word, ask a feminist.
You haven't heard of intersectionality then.
-
Jeremy,
Feminists do not care about racism, any more than feminists care about the disabled.
Feminists care about the XX population, the rest do not matter.
Because the rest of us no not matter, because the rest of us have "privilege".
Don't take my word, ask a feminist.
I'm a feminist and so's my wife and you are talking purest pish.
-
I'm a feminist and so's my wife and you are talking purest pish.
Where is my son's "privilege" when he has to go through PE?
When the boys have to go through the humiliation of mutual showers........and the girls do not?
-
Where is my son's "privilege" when he has to go through PE?
When the boys have to go through the humiliation of mutual showers........and the girls do not?
What in the name of Jehosophat Jones the Jumping Jogger of Jonestown has that to do with your statement that no one who is a feminist cares about racism?
-
Where is my son's "privilege" when he has to go through PE?
When the boys have to go through the humiliation of mutual showers........and the girls do not?
Since when were communal showers humiliation?
-
Where is my son's "privilege" when he has to go through PE?
When the boys have to go through the humiliation of mutual showers........and the girls do not?
Do boys have to shower with blood running down their legs?
-
Since when were communal showers humiliation?
They aren’t, for either gender. Girls can feel very uncomfortable about their menstrual blood showing though.
-
Jeremy,
Feminists do not care about racism, any more than feminists care about the disabled.
Feminists care about the XX population, the rest do not matter.
Because the rest of us no not matter, because the rest of us have "privilege".
Don't take my word, ask a feminist.
I’m a feminist, my kids are feminist.
Never heard such utter shit in my life.
-
Do boys have to shower with blood running down their legs?
Do feminists complain when boys are stabbed to death after girls have acted as molls?
Or do feminists blame males?
-
Do feminists complain when boys are stabbed to death after girls have acted as molls?
Or do feminists blame males?
We got here from having periods in showers how?
-
It's an interesting article about sexism and I agree with a lot of it...
... but what about racism?
Racism is not the issue here, there's no need to try to divert the thread.
Where is my son's "privilege" when he has to go through PE?
When the boys have to go through the humiliation of mutual showers........and the girls do not?
Humph, nobody has to go into a communal shower, boy or girl, anyone can opt out, it's a basic human right. If your son has a bullying teacher who tries to make him shower communally it's up to you to tell the teacher they have no right to force him - or anyone else, that in turn will give your son confidence. However, kids often shower in their pants and change into dry ones afterwards, that too was is acceptable and should provoke no comments. People have been doing that (in bathing suit) after swimming since I don't know when.
I wonder what kind of school in this day and age, bearing in mind so many have modern & elaborate gymnasia, doesn't have shower cubicles?
Humph, you also said:- "Feminists do not care about racism, any more than feminists care about the disabled."
Absolute nonsense, a sweeping statement. I don't know what sort of people you mix with to give you such a distorted and extreme view.
Do feminists complain when boys are stabbed to death after girls have acted as molls?
Or do feminists blame males?
I don't know how we got to this, once again I wonder what sort of people you know, but women will blame women if women are in the wrong.
-
I don't know how we got to this, once again I wonder what sort of people you know, but women will blame women if women are in the wrong.
OK let's not involve Julie Bindel yet again for the moment, rather let us consider the Golden Globes.
Tonya Harding, barred from ice skating for life for hiring a thug to try to break Nancy Kerrigan's knees, is now rehabilitated because she was not the one who assaulted Nancy, it was a man who did it.
-
I'm not personally acquainted with Juliet Bindel nor anyone at the Golden Globes, I've only read about them.
Also I'd never heard of the skater, Tonya Harding, or Nancy Kerrigan but have now read about them. All I can say about that is, from what I read, they seem like a 'right shower'. I'd no idea the skating world was so brutal.
You appear to have some famous acquaintances. The only feminists I know are friends, family, colleagues - none with a high public profile.
-
Jeremy,
Feminists do not care about racism, any more than feminists care about the disabled.
Feminists care about the XX population, the rest do not matter.
Because the rest of us no not matter, because the rest of us have "privilege".
Don't take my word, ask a feminist.
What a daft post! ::)
-
Since when were communal showers humiliation?
They certainly are humiliating if you are forced to have them - though in reality no-one has the right to force you to shower communally. Not many people want to be naked, washing their 'bits', in front of others, plus a teacher, even of the same sex. I've not experienced it, we had cubicles at my school, but would have refused had the showers been communal & so would most of us.
-
I'm not personally acquainted with Juliet Bindel nor anyone at the Golden Globes, I've only read about them.
Also I'd never heard of the skater, Tonya Harding, or Nancy Kerrigan but have now read about them. All I can say about that is, from what I read, they seem like a 'right shower'. I'd no idea the skating world was so brutal.
You appear to have some famous acquaintances. The only feminists I know are friends, family, colleagues - none with a high public profile.
Julie is a regular contributor to the Graun, and the Indy. She gets slagged for "transphobia", because she considers M to F trans people to be men who have no right to be considered as women (Over to you , Rhea!)
Nancy was assaulted by a thug acting on Tonya's orders. There has never been any suggestion that Nancy was anything other than a fine skater who did not deserve to be assaulted by a thug acting upon a woman's orders.
-
I know all that, read about them. Not long ago :D!
Would like to see the documentary discussed in this article, you've piqued my interest:
https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/photo-gallery/34087108/image/34087122/Stream-Price-Gold-Netflix
-
They certainly are humiliating if you are forced to have them - though in reality no-one has the right to force you to shower communally. Not many people want to be naked, washing their 'bits', in front of others, plus a teacher, even of the same sex. I've not experienced it, we had cubicles at my school, but would have refused had the showers been communal & so would most of us.
I've experienced being made to shower in front of others, the teacher stood there and made sure we left our towels at the door. No choice. This was from the first PE lesson in a scary big school, a bunch of 11 year olds. We couldn't refuse. Punishment for not having the right kit was running around the athletics track in our underwear. State comprehensive in the 80's.
The shower itself isn't the humiliation, it is not having the choice, as you say.
-
I've experienced being made to shower in front of others, the teacher stood there and made sure we left our towels at the door. No choice. This was from the first PE lesson in a scary big school, a bunch of 11 year olds. We couldn't refuse. Punishment for not having the right kit was running around the athletics track in our underwear. State comprehensive in the 80's.
The shower itself isn't the humiliation, it is not having the choice, as you say.
Same here. Master Bennett gets the same.
Miss Bennett does not.
-
Same here. Master Bennett gets the same.
Miss Bennett does not.
But that isn't because of gender, it is because of insensitivity and/or stupidity on the part of the teachers (for the record the boys' PE teachers were far more sensitive than the girls' at my school). You are in a position to complain. Have you done so?
-
Think you might like this, Humph.
https://www.plover.com/rainbowice/baughmanreview.html
-
Tell Master Bennett that no-one has the right to make him stand naked in front of others - and back him up! The teacher may make him feel he has to do it but there is no law saying he does. He won't be the only one who feels uncomfortable about it.
We are no longer living in an era where teachers are untouchable icons who cannot be questioned about any practice & parents intimidated.
-
Think you might like this, Humph.
https://www.plover.com/rainbowice/baughmanreview.html
Hi Rhea
Yes I did enjoy it in a perverse kind of way. It reminded me of a Ch 4 series some years ago, I think it was called "Alternative View" in which persons who took a minority view on what were then current issues had a ten minute platform, such as those who supported fox hunting.
Thanks ;-)
-
Tell Master Bennett that no-one has the right to make him stand naked in front of others - and back him up! The teacher may make him feel he has to do it but there is no law saying he does. He won't be the only one who feels uncomfortable about it.
We are no longer living in an era where teachers are untouchable icons who cannot be questioned about any practice & parents intimidated.
Robbie
I think it is better to teach Master Bennett that he has nothing to fear when standing naked in front of his peers.
As for your second paragraph, Miss Bennett's teachers have learned that it is not I whom they have to fear.
-
Hi Rhea
Yes I did enjoy it in a perverse kind of way. It reminded me of a Ch 4 series some years ago, I think it was called "Alternative View" in which persons who took a minority view on what were then current issues had a ten minute platform, such as those who supported fox hunting.
Thanks ;-)
You read the whole book? Wow, that’s impressive.
-
Robbie
I think it is better to teach Master Bennett that he has nothing to fear when standing naked in front of his peers.
Rather than teach him that is body is private and his to choose to show or not?
-
Well, yes, a kid might be afraid of standing naked. It seems a natural reaction to me.
-
https://www.bhf.org.uk/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2018/january/fewer-women-would-die-from-heart-attacks-if-given-same-treatments-as-men
-
Rather than teach him that is body is private and his to choose to show or not?
Yes, that's right.
What Wigginhall said too.
-
You read the whole book? Wow, that’s impressive.
I read the page that was posted.
Even men can do that.
:-)
-
We were not forced to have a shower at my all girls school in the 60s, very few of us had one, I certainly didn't. I have never in my life had a communal shower, or would wish to do so.
-
It seems an outdated practice, used to be very common in boarding schools in past times but now most schools have proper, modern showers with cubicles. I showered at school sometimes in the 70s if it was very hot but generally waited until I got home, as did most of us, especially if games was last period in the school day (I didn't exert myself that much anyway, tried to hide or had an excuse to miss games which I hated).
Rhiannon that's a very interesting article about heart disease.
-
Yes folks, more sexual discrimination.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42621029
(But don't you know that its different for girls?)
(Acknowledgement to Joe Jackson)
-
Yes folks, more sexual discrimination.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42621029
(But don't you know that its different for girls?)
(Acknowledgement to Joe Jackson)
How the fuck is this about gender discrimination?
-
Some more about gender discrimination in sentencing.
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/62446/1/__lse.ac.uk_storage_LIBRARY_Secondary_libfile_shared_repository_Content_Horder,%20J_Sexual%20infidelity_Horder_Sexual%20infidelity_2015.pdf
-
Yes folks, more sexual discrimination.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42621029
(But don't you know that its different for girls?)
(Acknowledgement to Joe Jackson)
Your problems with the female of the species has removed your ability to make any logical point.
-
I don't understand a lot of what you have come out with on this thread, Humph, citing journalists and ice skaters, Golden globe winners, none of whom you know; the latest article you posted about the woman helping her very sick husband to die & walking free from court has absolutely nothing to do with gender discrimination.
-
HWB seems to have a great problem with women, I wonder why?
-
Yes folks, more sexual discrimination.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-42621029
(But don't you know that its different for girls?)
(Acknowledgement to Joe Jackson)
Read this earlier, since it is local for me.
The outcome seems to be all about the specifics of this particular case - and nothing else.
-
HWB seems to have a great problem with women, I wonder why?
Things aren't always what they seem LR. I hope he doesn't have a problem with women. However that very sad case of mercy killing has nothing to do with this thread. There was no violence or malice and if a husband had done the same for his wife in similar circumstances, he would have been treated the same.
-
Your problems with the female of the species has removed your ability to make any logical point.
To be fair I don’t think he has a problem with women, just the notions that women should be treated as equal to men, should be treated fairly, and that patriarchy is a thing.
-
Things aren't always what they seem LR. I hope he doesn't have a problem with women. However that very sad case of mercy killing has nothing to do with this thread. There was no violence or malice and if a husband had done the same for his wife in similar circumstances, he would have been treated the same.
Not about discrimination...but does a person who smothers her/his partner to death (for mercy or whatever ::)) get away with it?! That doesn't seem right!
Last week, out here a professor killed his immobilized mother who was suffering from chronic brain disease. He will be sentenced for murder surely.
-
Not about discrimination...but does a person who smothers her/his partner to death (for mercy or whatever ::)) get away with it?! That doesn't seem right!
Last week, out here a professor killed his immobilized mother who was suffering from chronic brain disease. He will be sentenced for murder surely.
I think the verdict is that she wasn’t in full control of her mind at the time.
-
Not about discrimination...but does a person who smothers her/his partner to death (for mercy or whatever ::)) get away with it?! That doesn't seem right!
Last week, out here a professor killed his immobilized mother who was suffering from chronic brain disease. He will be sentenced for murder surely.
Does someone who acts out of mercy 'get away with it'? What are they 'getting away with'?
-
Yes (Rhiannon), that's what I read. She'd looked after her husband even though there were pending charges of abuse against him and the whole thing must have weighed heavily on her, with everyone knowing and the pair of them being shunned. He was very sick and she said that he asked her to help him. She telephoned the police and admitted what she'd done as soon as he was dead.
Sririam, it is a very difficult case to judge and - the judge - has to weigh everything up scrupulously. Judges are not infallible, nobody is, but years of experience in criminal cases and assessing character, plus the tremendous weight of responsibility & reputation of the judiciary, means they are generally very wise.
Not everything is black or white. At the end of the day, the only person certain of the truth is the woman who was charged. However it is surely better for a guilty person to go free than an innocent one to be imprisoned.
From what I read, imo the correct decision was made.
-
Things aren't always what they seem LR. I hope he doesn't have a problem with women. However that very sad case of mercy killing has nothing to do with this thread. There was no violence or malice and if a husband had done the same for his wife in similar circumstances, he would have been treated the same.
HWB's comments give the impression he doesn't rate women.
In similar circumstances I might have smothered my husband, not out of love but out of disgust, if I believed the sexual abuse allegations to be true.
-
HWB's comments give the impression he doesn't rate women.
In similar circumstances I might have smothered my husband, not out of love but out of disgust, if I believed the sexual abuse allegations to be true.
I think that’s more likely to land a murder charge.
-
I think that’s more likely to land a murder charge.
Probably.
-
Mmm
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/michelle-williams-was-reportedly-paid-less-than-241000-to-reshoot-all-the-money-in-the-world-while-mark-wahlberg-made-2415-million/ar-BBIc6bd
-
It is shocking that even now in 2018 women, on the whole, tend to be paid less than their male counterparts. :o
-
It is shocking that even now in 2018 women, on the whole, tend to be paid less than their male counterparts. :o
Let us get this into perspective. I am paid 17% more than my male and female subordinates, but I am paid 21% less than my female boss. She in turn is paid less than the big boss (who is male, but could be female, it is not as if women never get promoted to senior positions). Quite frankly to try to use Hollywood as an example is like comparing oranges with apples.
FTR I do recall twenty years ago my employers (a technically medium sized company) paid a model to appear as part of a marketing campaign , I was asked to appear in the same, sitting beside him. I took the view that I was not doing the same job as somebody else if I was not paid the same as him, one of the women agreed to do the same, for no extra pay. I don't think that would happen today, and certainly Mrs Bennett would not agree to such a suggestion.
-
Let us get this into perspective. I am paid 17% more than my male and female subordinates, but I am paid 21% less than my female boss. She in turn is paid less than the big boss (who is male, but could be female, it is not as if women never get promoted to senior positions). Quite frankly to try to use Hollywood as an example is like comparing oranges with apples.
FTR I do recall twenty years ago my employers (a technically medium sized company) paid a model to appear as part of a marketing campaign , I was asked to appear in the same, sitting beside him. I took the view that I was not doing the same job as somebody else if I was not paid the same as him, one of the women agreed to do the same, for no extra pay. I don't think that would happen today, and certainly Mrs Bennett would not agree to such a suggestion.
Women are often paid less than men for doing exactly the same job, which is WRONG, there is no way that can be justified.
-
Women are often paid less than men for doing exactly the same job, which is WRONG, there is no way that can be justified.
Can you give examples? My understanding is that has been illegal since 1975. The main grumble today seems to be more of a case of there not being enough senior female managers, which is a different issue.
-
I haven't come across different pay scales for men and women. My salary has always been equal to that of a man on the same level.
Film stars etc. are a different matter. Some command higher fees than others, negotiated by their agents. What they get depends on how well known and popular they are and how much the studio wants them. If they're a 'good catch' and receive lots of offers of work, they can be choosy.