Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 08:46:21 AM

Title: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 08:46:21 AM
Not sure what to think here, I get the need to be inclusive but the actions of the promoter seem reasonable.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42776454?SThisFB
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 08:55:14 AM
Not sure what to think here, I get the need to be inclusive but the actions of the promoter seem reasonable.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42776454?SThisFB

I think the Mother was being rather OTT.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 08:55:23 AM
I agree with NS, not sure about big gigs but at smaller ones people often miss the supporting act. If the initial action and court order cited only Little Mix then the promoter complied.

This reminds me of the case a few years ago where a mum issued proceedings against a school that was going on an adventures holiday because her disabled daughter couldn’t join in the archery. They’d adapted everything else but fir this she had been offered a video camera to film and report it all. The mum objected sobthe school was ordered to drop the archery and no child got to do it.

Got mixed feeling about that too but I guess if the outcome is that the centre provides wheelchair archery now that’s a good thing?
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Walter on January 24, 2018, 09:08:24 AM
Not sure what to think here, I get the need to be inclusive but the actions of the promoter seem reasonable.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42776454?SThisFB
an upper age limit of 9 should be imposed 🙌😝 at Lttle Mix concerts
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Harrowby Hall on January 24, 2018, 09:32:39 AM
Not sure what to think here, I get the need to be inclusive but the actions of the promoter seem reasonable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-42776454?SThisFB

I suspect that the outcome will be determined by the precise wording of the Equalities Act, 2010. According to the Act you are disabled if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. As far as deaf people are concerned, I believe that any public access room - such as a church or a lecture room - should be equipped with an induction loop but plenty are not.

In this case, a signer was present for the headline act but not the supporting acts.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Aruntraveller on January 24, 2018, 09:44:22 AM
Sounds to me as if the mother is being a little churlish.

There have been some support acts I've seen where it should have been a legal requirement for the promoter to supply earplugs.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 09:48:33 AM
I wonder if watching the signer and not the act detracts from the experience, but clearly this lady doesn’t think so.

Do plays get signed?
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Aruntraveller on January 24, 2018, 09:51:53 AM
I wonder if watching the signer and not the act detracts from the experience, but clearly this lady doesn’t think so.

Do plays get signed?

Not regularly I don't think - although our local, Nottingham Playhouse, does specific "signed" evenings. It also has a loop system.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 09:53:26 AM
Not regularly I don't think - although our local, Nottingham Playhouse, does specific "signed" evenings. It also has a loop system.

Just been reading about an ASL interpreter who does rap concerts. The work she puts in! Now that’s cool.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/humankind/2017/05/15/asl-interpreter-steals-show-rap-concerts/101709482/

Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 10:43:08 AM
There is no way in a million years my young children would have been permitted to have gone to that sort concert. The performers look like prostitutes! :o
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 10:51:36 AM
There is no way in a million years my young children would have been permitted to have gone to that sort concert. The performers look like prostitutes! :o

Bloody hell. Little Mix are popular with mums as well as daughters because their image is quite tame.

They look like they are wearing shiny black Spanx. I guess there’s someone with a fetish for control underwear somewhere...
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Aruntraveller on January 24, 2018, 11:02:06 AM
There is no way in a million years my young children would have been permitted to have gone to that sort concert. The performers look like prostitutes! :o

Methinks you need to get out more.

Don't ever view a Madonna concert for goodness sake, it may push you over the edge (and even she is tame compared to a music video I viewed last night by a combo called Fischerspooner - if you are easily offended I suggest not looking for this!)
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 11:15:06 AM
Methinks you need to get out more.

Don't ever view a Madonna concert for goodness sake, it may push you over the edge (and even she is tame compared to a music video I viewed last night by a combo called Fischerspooner - if you are easily offended I suggest not looking for this!)

Madonna’s rather funny. Rihanna though...
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 11:23:27 AM
Bloody hell. Little Mix are popular with mums as well as daughters because their image is quite tame.

They look like they are wearing shiny black Spanx. I guess there’s someone with a fetish for control underwear somewhere...


I think it is totally inappropriate for children to go to pop concerts of any sort, what on earth happened to childhood?
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 11:28:46 AM
I wonder if watching the signer and not the act detracts from the experience, but clearly this lady doesn’t think so.

Do plays get signed?

And is the signer suitably attired?
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 11:55:24 AM
There is no way in a million years my young children would have been permitted to have gone to that sort concert. The performers look like prostitutes! :o

I am sure that you will be pleased to read that is exactly what Mrs Bennett thinks of them!

IMHO they look like a bunch of schoolgirls experimenting with make up at a sleepover party. The only thing that does concern me is that hideous tattoo one of them wears on her arm.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 11:57:23 AM

I think it is totally inappropriate for children to go to pop concerts of any sort, what on earth happened to childhood?

My mates & I went to see Supertramp when we were fifteen, are you saying that we should have been tucked up in bed with an Enid Blyton novel?

Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 12:01:57 PM

In this case, a signer was present for the headline act but not the supporting acts.

Are the lyrics that important? And YES I do concede that many lyrics in opera, too, are repetitive. You might need a signer for something such as "Show Boat", but not for "Don Giovanni".
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 12:04:25 PM

I think it is totally inappropriate for children to go to pop concerts of any sort, what on earth happened to childhood?

They are having fun. I loved pop music and make up when I was nine or ten. As it happens my girls can’t be bothered with the latter and prefer indie rock and grunge to pop. As indeed do I.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 12:05:53 PM
Are the lyrics that important? And YES I do concede that many lyrics in opera, too, are repetitive. You might need a signer for something such as "Show Boat", but not for "Don Giovanni".

My thought was that if the songs are played a lot at home and in the car then the mum would know the lyrics anyway. But maybe not.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 12:07:40 PM
My mates & I went to see Supertramp when we were fifteen, are you saying that we should have been tucked up in bed with an Enid Blyton novel?

Never heard of Supertramp, but if it is a pop group you would certainly not have been permitted to go to their gig at that age, if you had been my child, you would have been doing your homework or a suitable activity.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 12:14:14 PM
Never heard of Supertramp

OK. Sane, Rhia, Robbie Gordon, anybody....somebody please tell her.....
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 12:20:31 PM
My thought was that if the songs are played a lot at home and in the car then the mum would know the lyrics anyway. But maybe not.

My knowledge of their songs is limited to those that Miss Bennett plays. The themes seem to be "I love you, you love me" "I love you, you don't love me ", "I don't love you anymore".

Interesting piece of useless info. I knew a music teacher who taught a boy who was literally tone deaf to tune his bass guitar by pulse beat.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Aruntraveller on January 24, 2018, 12:26:43 PM
OK. Sane, Rhia, Robbie Gordon, anybody....somebody please tell her.....

It wouldn't be logical to bother  ;)
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 12:27:19 PM
Never heard of Supertramp, but if it is a pop group you would certainly not have been permitted to go to their gig at that age, if you had been my child, you would have been doing your homework or a suitable activity.

Going to a gig is *exactly* what you should do at that age.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 12:29:03 PM
It wouldn't be logical to bother  ;)

Yeah, you’d have to be a real dreamer.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 12:33:02 PM
Never heard of Supertramp, but if it is a pop group you would certainly not have been permitted to go to their gig at that age, if you had been my child, you would have been doing your homework or a suitable activity.

A popular beat combo, m'lud.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 12:35:10 PM
Going to a gig is *exactly* what you should do at that age.

Agreed. It is not as if such gigs are swimming with booze & drugs.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 12:49:58 PM
Yeah, you’d have to be a real dreamer.

If I look outside, It's raining again.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 12:50:17 PM
Agreed. It is not as if such gigs are swimming with booze & drugs.
Ah that's why I don't go to them.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 12:51:13 PM
If I look outside, It's raining again.
In that case, I won't take the long way home
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 12:59:25 PM
Ah that's why I don't go to them.

Nothing to do with the crap music? ;) In all honesty if Miss Bennett & her friends wanted to go to see Little Mix, I would want somebody (preferably somebody's mum) to chaperone them, I would be prepared to drive them there & back but would not want to have to endure the concert.

As for Master Bennett, I would prefer that he & his mates went to a local live gig (without booze of course), to see local bands, rather than to spend lots of money on meeting unpleasant people.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 01:10:51 PM
Nothing to do with the crap music? ;) In all honesty if Miss Bennett & her friends wanted to go to see Little Mix, I would want somebody (preferably somebody's mum) to chaperone them, I would be prepared to drive them there & back but would not want to have to endure the concert.

As for Master Bennett, I would prefer that he & his mates went to a local live gig (without booze of course), to see local bands, rather than to spend lots of money on meeting unpleasant people.


With the right drugs, i am sure I could enjoy the music.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 01:35:15 PM
Going to a gig is *exactly* what you should do at that age.

Why? Only a negligent parent would permit their children to go to something like that, imo.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Gordon on January 24, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
Never heard of Supertramp, but if it is a pop group you would certainly not have been permitted to go to their gig at that age, if you had been my child, you would have been doing your homework or a suitable activity.

I'd have thought that a 'suitable activity' for a young person would be having fun and getting out and about.

I mean it is just going to a concert and that seems reasonable: after all, and thinking logically, its not as if they are asking to have breakfast in America or commit the crime of the century. Sometimes you have to give a little bit: bloody well right say I!
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 01:36:45 PM
Why? Only a negligent parent would permit their children to go to something like that, imo.

It's ok, Floo, you've made your view of my parenting well known in the past.

To repeat: they have fun.

I wonder what your kids got up to that you've no clue about.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 01:38:10 PM
I'd have thought that a 'suitable activity' for a young person would be having fun and getting out and about.

I mean it is just going to a concert and that seems reasonable: after all, and thinking logically, its not as if they are asking to have breakfast in America or commit the crime of the century. Sometimes you have to give a little bit: bloody well right say I!

Over 16s maybe, but not under that age, imo.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 01:40:41 PM
Why? Only a negligent parent would permit their children to go to something like that, imo.
You have no idea what 'sonething like that' is like.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 01:43:11 PM
You have no idea what 'sonething like that' is like.

A horrible noise for a start! Anyway we will have to agree to differ on this topic. I have no regrets about the way my husband and I brought up our children, neither do they by all accounts, they appear to have enjoyed their childhood.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 01:46:03 PM
A horrible noise for a start!
Which, unless you are saying you would stop your kids going to a concert because you don't like music, is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 01:49:04 PM
Which, unless you are saying you would stop your kids going to a concert because you don't like music, is irrelevant.

The sort of people with whom they might come into contact would be much more worrying. As I said we will have to agree to differ, I have no more to say on the topic.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Gordon on January 24, 2018, 01:49:47 PM
The sort of people with whom they might come into contact would be much more worrying.

Like fellow music fans?
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 01:53:35 PM
The sort of people with whom they might come into contact would be much more worrying. As I said we will have to agree to differ, I have no more to say on the topic.
Since you don't know anything about such concerts your statement is mere prejudice.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 01:56:59 PM
Like fellow music fans?
Who might well be sensible, logical, responsible, practical.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Gordon on January 24, 2018, 01:58:44 PM
Who might well be sensible, logical, responsible, practical.

Bloody well right!
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 02:03:31 PM
When I was young, it seemed that first concert was so wonderful, a miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical. And all the bands on the stage, well they were singing so happily, oh joyfully, playfully watching them
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Gordon on January 24, 2018, 02:20:56 PM
When I was young, it seemed that first concert was so wonderful, a miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical. And all the bands on the stage, well they were singing so happily, oh joyfully, playfully watching them

Oh you Dreamer you.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 24, 2018, 02:25:31 PM
When I was young, it seemed that first concert was so wonderful, a miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical. And all the bands on the stage, well they were singing so happily, oh joyfully, playfully watching them

But then Floo took me away,
Taught me how to be miserable
Puritanical, cynical
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: wigginhall on January 24, 2018, 02:30:37 PM
I like the quotes from Supertramp. 
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Walter on January 24, 2018, 03:19:31 PM
Over 16s maybe, but not under that age, imo.
nobody gives a flying fairy about your 'IMO '
And  you also appear to have a problem with prostitutes too , where do you prejudices end ?
Life is not an endurance test you know !
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Aruntraveller on January 24, 2018, 03:48:31 PM
Over 16s maybe, but not under that age, imo.

I went to my first concert on my own at the tender age of 14. Admittedly it was a piano recital in the Albert Hall in Nottingham. But still, dodgy people these concert pianists, and the audience depraved I tell you, depraved with their purple rinses and tightly curled perms - and that was just the men.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Rhiannon on January 24, 2018, 03:57:32 PM
I took my eldest to her first gig. We saw Turin Brakes. Last year both girls went with friends to see someone from YouTube.

You do get dodgy influences at these concert things. My daughters have resisted all my attempts to persuade them to get their noses pierced though.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Robbie on January 24, 2018, 04:44:33 PM

I think it is totally inappropriate for children to go to pop concerts of any sort, what on earth happened to childhood?

You can't be serious. Did you never go to concerts or theatre when you were a kid? My parents took me & my sister quite often, when I was older I went with friends, parents would sometimes take and pick up. I did the same with my kids. Gigs are exciting for young people. I still find them exciting now but not in same way as when I was young.

Meeting different types of people is part of growing up too. There's safety in numbers so going out with a few friends can't be harmful, they look out for eachother.

As for 'Little Mix' looking like prostitutes, what a vile thing to say about a group of nice, well behaved young women, you only have to look at their faces to see that!!! Do you know what a prostitute looks like anyway, they come in all sorts of packages.

Going back to op,  the woman had signing for the main act & one would have thought that was enough. I suppose she has a point though. Surprised it made the news.  What is nice is her taking her children to the gig and her daughter saying she likes her mum to go with her.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Harrowby Hall on January 24, 2018, 04:55:37 PM
But then Floo took me away,
Taught me how to be miserable
Puritanical, cynical

I don't think that you will get anywhere, Robbie. Floo (when she was Floo) told us on a number of occasions that she didn't respond to music and didn't much like music.

It is quite possible that she is a musical anhedonic. Due to the way some people's brains are wired reward centres in the brain may not respond to musical stimuli in the way that other people's brains do. It does not mean that there is anything wrong with them, it is just an individual difference between a few people and most of the rest of us.

Google "Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire"
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 04:58:49 PM
I don't think that you will get anywhere, Robbie. Floo (when she was Floo) told us on a number of occasions that she didn't respond to music and didn't much like music.

It is quite possible that she is a musical anhedonic. Due to the way some people's brains are wired reward centres in the brain may not respond to musical stimuli in the way that other people's brains do. It does not mean that there is anything wrong with them, it is just an individual difference between a few people and most of the rest of us.

Google "Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire"


While I agree with your diagnosis, not sure how this covers the idea that Little Mix look like prostitutes and people who go to such concerts are to be avoided. That reads like prejudice not anhedonia.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 05:07:51 PM
Did you never go to concerts or theatre when you were a kid?

To answer Robbie's question, the answer is no. My parents weren't into anything like that. I only went to the cinema once as a child, and that was with the school to see a wildlife film. My husband and I took our children to the cinema and theatre from time to time when they were young. My husband took them to concerts as he enjoys music, of the classical kind, and so do they. I don't ever remember them asking to go to a gig, it just wasn't their thing.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Robbie on January 24, 2018, 05:14:37 PM
A concert is a gig.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: wigginhall on January 24, 2018, 05:16:46 PM
Interesting stuff about music.   I used to love it, and now don't.   But I ascribe this to just getting older, and not wanting so much input.   But I actually find it irritating now, so I am a soul-brother of Littleroses.   
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Robbie on January 24, 2018, 05:18:18 PM
I don't think that you will get anywhere, Robbie. Floo (when she was Floo) told us on a number of occasions that she didn't respond to music and didn't much like music.

It is quite possible that she is a musical anhedonic. Due to the way some people's brains are wired reward centres in the brain may not respond to musical stimuli in the way that other people's brains do. It does not mean that there is anything wrong with them, it is just an individual difference between a few people and most of the rest of us.

Google "Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire"

I know LR doesn't like music but I am surprised she disapproves so strongly of young people going to concerts when it is part of life.
--------

Agree with what NS said below. The 'prostitute' comment was quite shocking.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: floo on January 24, 2018, 05:19:06 PM
A concert is a gig.

I doubt a classical concert is called a 'gig'. ::)

I have never enjoyed music of any kind, I have no idea why. My father had a good singing voice, my sisters do too, as do my daughters. My singing voice is something you would wear earplugs to blot out the ghastly noise. ;D
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Nearly Sane on January 24, 2018, 05:20:50 PM
Interesting stuff about music.   I used to love it, and now don't.   But I ascribe this to just getting older, and not wanting so much input.   But I actually find it irritating now, so I am a soul-brother of Littleroses.
I still love music but as I've mentioned before I think I hear it differently than I did when I was 13-17 when it moved me differently and deeper. I think our hearing and how it is processed changes significantly over time in much subtler ways then we generally think.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Robbie on January 24, 2018, 05:41:24 PM
I doubt a classical concert is called a 'gig'. ::)

Yes it is. It's an informal term. A classical musician would say for example, "I landed a gig at Wigmore Hall".
People who give lectures or demonstrations also refer to them as gigs.

We know your dislike of music but what was surprising was you objecting to young people going to concerts and, more shocking, likening Little Mix's appearance to that of prostitutes.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Humph Warden Bennett on January 26, 2018, 03:35:23 PM
Methinks you need to get out more.

Don't ever view a Madonna concert for goodness sake, it may push you over the edge (and even she is tame compared to a music video I viewed last night by a combo called Fischerspooner - if you are easily offended I suggest not looking for this!)

I do recall Anchorman advising against listening to Sidney Devine some years ago, I was wally enough to ignore him & regretted the same for some time, so I fought shy of looking this combo up on YT instead I chickened out & looked them up on Wiki. Wiki tells us of one of their albums "The album's cover was listed on Pitchfork's worst album covers of 2009", so I get the impression that the combo are essentially exponents of bad taste?

Worth remembering that the Canadian act Rough Trade were well known in the seventies for their stage act, which believe it or not included lesbian singer Carol Pope going into the audience & shaking her crotch in the faces of male fans (for somebody who was supposed to be a lesbian icon there seemed to be very few women in the audience).
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Aruntraveller on January 27, 2018, 09:39:51 PM
Quote
so I get the impression that the combo are essentially exponents of bad taste?

No I wouldn't put it quite like that - their music is not (to my ears at least) that bad - I enjoy some of their tracks.

They are an art-house performance type combo however, with all the boundary pushing activity that can induce.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: jeremyp on January 27, 2018, 10:13:42 PM
A concert is a gig.
My parents used to take me to gigs by the London Symphony Orchestra at the Festival Hall.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: jeremyp on January 27, 2018, 10:17:59 PM
Talking about young people going to gigs, don't forget that the original story is about three children going to a concert and being accompanied by hearing impaired adults. I have absolutely no idea why Floo would object to that arrangement.
Title: Re: Glutton for punishment???
Post by: Robbie on January 28, 2018, 08:52:57 AM
I don't know either except that the sight of Little Mix horrified her, something else I don't understand.  A nicer, more 'ordinary' group of girls I've yet to meet.

However - my husband and one of his colleagues are doing a gig later in the week. He has described it as such & prepared for it. They've done the same gig before and it went down well.