Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 03:53:05 PM

Title: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 03:53:05 PM
Just curious. You can, of course, expand on why you voted (in this poll, and in the referrendum) the way you did in the comments, if you want to.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: jeremyp on April 01, 2018, 06:53:23 PM
What's the difference between

Quote
Didn't vote - and I now regret not doing so

and

Quote
Didn't vote - but I now wish I had.

I feel one of those should say "didn't vote and I don't regret it."
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Maeght on April 01, 2018, 07:28:54 PM
What's the difference between

and

I feel one of those should say "didn't vote and I don't regret it."

Yes, I was going to say that.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Steve H on April 01, 2018, 07:30:09 PM
You're both right - careless of me. Amended.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Maeght on April 01, 2018, 07:41:29 PM
You're both right - careless of me. Amended.

Great, I can vote now :-)
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: floo on April 02, 2018, 09:05:23 AM
I voted remain, I am only sorry the vote didn't go that way. :o
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Steve H on April 02, 2018, 09:43:55 AM
We seem to be almost 100% remain and don't regret it, though it's a very small sample. Would that the referrendum vote had gone that way!
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2018, 09:58:03 AM
This is kind of what confuses me: almost everybody I know IRL voted remain. Almost every British person I know on line voted remain. It came as quite a surprise that the sample consisting of people I know is so skewed.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 02, 2018, 01:14:18 PM
This is kind of what confuses me: almost everybody I know IRL voted remain. Almost every British person I know on line voted remain. It came as quite a surprise that the sample consisting of people I know is so skewed.

Isn't this really a question of demography? Analyses of polls taken at the time suggest that (in NRS terms) C1 C2 D & E group members tended to vote leave, A & Bs tended to vote remain. In addition, people with tertiary education level qualifications and younger people tended to vote remain.

It may be that most of the people you know, and with whom you discussed the referendum, fall into the "remain voting" categories.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: ippy on April 02, 2018, 01:28:12 PM
Isn't this really a question of demography? Analyses of polls taken at the time suggest that (in NRS terms) C1 C2 D & E group members tended to vote leave, A & Bs tended to vote remain. In addition, people with tertiary education level qualifications and younger people tended to vote remain.

It may be that most of the people you know, and with whom you discussed the referendum, fall into the "remain voting" categories.

I'm inclined to agree with your analysis H H, people that are bothered about educational or class levels and to a degree youngsters are also far less practical than the rest of us so they may well have been more likely to vote remain. 

Regards ippy
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Maeght on April 02, 2018, 01:36:18 PM
I'm inclined to agree with your analysis H H, people that are bothered about educational or class levels and to a degree youngsters are also far less practical than the rest of us so they may well have been more likely to vote remain. 

Regards ippy

I know quite a few people who vote to leave.

Not sure what your analysis is really saying there ippy. Are you saying those who voted leave aren't practical (whatever that means)? What are you saying those who voted to leave aren't bothered about?
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: ippy on April 02, 2018, 02:12:40 PM
I know quite a few people who vote to leave.

Not sure what your analysis is really saying there ippy. Are you saying those who voted leave aren't practical (whatever that means)? What are you saying those who voted to leave aren't bothered about?

I don't see people in the apparent way H H's post seemed to infer.

I'm a member of a family of so called professionals including my wife's family I see and mix with this lot for a considerable amount  of my time, this inclines me to differ with the H H's apparent view of the world having seen the difference and very much not in the same way as H H seems to have.

For me when making a mental list of for and against and the fact of at last; 'the opportunity vote', it was an easy decision for me.

As you must know there are plenty of very well educated people that haven't got a clue about anything outside of their specialist subject, trouble tying their own shoelaces etc. (exaggeration to make the point).

Regards ippy
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Stranger on April 02, 2018, 02:26:48 PM
I'm inclined to agree with your analysis H H, people that are bothered about educational or class levels and to a degree youngsters are also far less practical than the rest of us so they may well have been more likely to vote remain. 

What the hell is practical about leaving? It's a practical nightmare and a total disaster (mainly) for the people who voted for it...
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Grace of God on April 02, 2018, 02:35:13 PM
Just curious. You can, of course, expand on why you voted (in this poll, and in the referrendum) the way you did in the comments, if you want to.

I voted to leave the eu and my only regret is that the govt and country are so set against democracy they are dragging their feet and wasting the opportunity we have..
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: floo on April 02, 2018, 02:51:10 PM
What the hell is practical about leaving? It's a practical nightmare and a total disaster (mainly) for the people who voted for it...

Agreed x 1000,000!
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Grace of God on April 02, 2018, 03:21:55 PM
What the hell is practical about leaving? It's a practical nightmare and a total disaster (mainly) for the people who voted for it...

what is practical in paying millions in to a club with no benefits and who wants to rewrite our laws..
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Maeght on April 02, 2018, 03:25:11 PM
I don't see people in the apparent way H H's post seemed to infer.

I'm a member of a family of so called professionals including my wife's family I see and mix with this lot for a considerable amount  of my time, this inclines me to differ with the H H's apparent view of the world having seen the difference and very much not in the same way as H H seems to have.

For me when making a mental list of for and against and the fact of at last; 'the opportunity vote', it was an easy decision for me.

As you must know there are plenty of very well educated people that haven't got a clue about anything outside of their specialist subject, trouble tying their own shoelaces etc. (exaggeration to make the point).

Regards ippy

That doesn't really make it clear what you meant though.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Stranger on April 02, 2018, 03:41:08 PM
what is practical in paying millions in to a club with no benefits and who wants to rewrite our laws..

It has plenty of benefits like access to the single market and customs union, freedom of movement, guarantees of workers rights. If you seriously think we, as a nation, will be financially better off outside, you are deluded - the only question is how much worse off we'll be. It is a layer of democracy that (in some respects) is above our own and that is all for the good, as far as I can see. The UK is a dismal example of democracy with its undemocratic FPTP election system and the absurd anachronism of the House of Lords.

I value my EU citizenship far more highly than my UK citizenship yet I'm being stripped of it by idiots and the uninformed and naive who were lied to.

This about sums it up...

In 2016 our then Prime Minister David Cameron caved in to pressure from his backbenchers to hold a referendum on British membership of the EU. This was a question of immense complexity involving sophisticated economic ramifications, the full extent of which became only too apparent later in the year when prodigal regiments of lawyers and civil servants had to be employed to cope with the administrative and legal load. If ever there was a matter for lengthy parliamentary debate and cabinet discussion heavily informed by advice from highly qualified experts, it was membership of the EU. Could there be a question less suited to a single plebiscite decision? And yet we were told to mistrust experts (‘You, the voter, are the expert here’) by politicians who presumably would demand an expert surgeon to remove their appendix or an expert pilot to fly their plane. So the decision was handed over to non-experts like me, even people whose stated motives for voting included ‘Well, it’s nice to have a change,’ and ‘Well, I preferred the old blue passport to the European purple one.’ For the sake of short-term political manoeuvring within his own party, David Cameron played Russian roulette with the long-term future of his country, of Europe, even of the world.

And so, to the precautionary principle. The referendum was about a major change, a political revolution whose pervasive effects would persist for decades if not longer. A huge constitutional change, the sort of change where, if ever, the precautionary principle should have been paramount. When it comes to constitutional amendments, the United States requires a two-thirds majority in both houses of Congress followed by ratification by three-quarters of the state legislatures. Arguably that bar is set a bit too high, but the principle is sound. David Cameron’s referendum, by contrast, asked for only a simple majority on a single yes/no question. Did it not occur to him that so radical a constitutional step might merit stipulation of a two-thirds majority? Or at least 60 per cent? Perhaps a minimum voter turnout to make sure such a major decision was not taken by a minority of the electorate? Maybe a second vote, a fortnight later, to make sure the populace really meant it? Or a second round a year later, when the terms and consequences of withdrawal had become at least minimally apparent? But no, all Cameron demanded was anything over 50 per cent in a single yes/no vote, at a time when opinion polls were yo-yo-ing up and down and the likely result was changing day by day. It is said that a leftover statute of British common law stipulates that ‘no idiot shall be admitted to parliament’. You’d think at least the stricture might apply to Prime Ministers.


Dawkins, R (2017). Science in the Soul: Selected Writings of a Passionate Rationalist. Transworld. Kindle Edition.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Gordon on April 02, 2018, 04:22:19 PM
I voted to leave the eu and my only regret is that the govt and country are so set against democracy they are dragging their feet and wasting the opportunity we have..

Doesn't look very democratic from the Scottish perspective though: does it?
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2018, 04:46:09 PM
Isn't this really a question of demography? Analyses of polls taken at the time suggest that (in NRS terms) C1 C2 D & E group members tended to vote leave, A & Bs tended to vote remain. In addition, people with tertiary education level qualifications and younger people tended to vote remain.

It may be that most of the people you know, and with whom you discussed the referendum, fall into the "remain voting" categories.

Yes, but it is literally something like 10 to 1. I'm really very surprised that demographics could skew things so badly. I d not dispute that they have, but it is surprising.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Steve H on April 02, 2018, 04:46:54 PM
OK, own up - who are the three leavers?
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2018, 04:47:12 PM
I'm inclined to agree with your analysis H H, people that are bothered about educational or class levels and to a degree youngsters are also far less practical than the rest of us so they may well have been more likely to vote remain. 

Regards ippy

Well that's false because, as events have shown the decision was incredibly stupid.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: jeremyp on April 02, 2018, 04:48:22 PM
what is practical in paying millions in to a club with no benefits and who wants to rewrite our laws..
If there are no benefits, what is it that the government is desperately negotiating to keep?

Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: ippy on April 02, 2018, 05:01:56 PM
That doesn't really make it clear what you meant though.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: ippy on April 02, 2018, 05:08:26 PM
That doesn't really make it clear what you meant though.

I was as clear as H H was in his post.

I'm sure he was inferring that there was something lacking between the ears of those that voted leave.

Regards ippy
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Maeght on April 02, 2018, 05:19:44 PM
I was as clear as H H was in his post.

I'm sure he was inferring that there was something lacking between the ears of those that voted leave.

Regards ippy

I don't think he was but it wasn't clear :-)
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 02, 2018, 10:11:43 PM
I was as clear as H H was in his post.

I'm sure he was inferring that there was something lacking between the ears of those that voted leave.


No, that is what you are inferring. I was merely replying to jeremyp's post by suggesting that many of his friends may have a similar background to him.

Having said that, I think that it is clear that many of the people who voted to leave did so because they had been fed hugely simplistic arguments by people leading the "leave" campaign. Some people of my acquaintance were swayed by the decision of Boris Johnson to support the leave campaign - they described him as being "very intelligent",
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Aruntraveller on April 02, 2018, 10:50:46 PM
Ah Boris Johnson of the water melon smiling piccaninnies.

No racism in the Tory party. Nothing to see here. Move along please.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: ad_orientem on April 03, 2018, 08:27:23 AM
Didn't vote because I'm no longer resident in the UK but I would have voted leave.
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: ippy on April 03, 2018, 12:08:29 PM
No, that is what you are inferring. I was merely replying to jeremyp's post by suggesting that many of his friends may have a similar background to him.

Having said that, I think that it is clear that many of the people who voted to leave did so because they had been fed hugely simplistic arguments by people leading the "leave" campaign. Some people of my acquaintance were swayed by the decision of Boris Johnson to support the leave campaign - they described him as being "very intelligent",

Your contents of your post lives or dies on however you might chose to define simplistic, Boris has and is still, as far as I know, making a small fortune out of his journalistic career and the last I heard was he is much sought after in this field of his, and his bike scheme in central London is a success; no I'm not a particular fan of his, but like him or not he is no fool.

Regards ippy
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: Stranger on April 03, 2018, 12:34:45 PM
...Boris has and is still, as far as I know, making a small fortune out of his journalistic career and the last I heard was he is much sought after in this field of his, and his bike scheme in central London is a success; no I'm not a particular fan of his, but like him or not he is no fool.

If he's not a (rich) fool, he does a good job of hiding it most of the time. However, he is definitely a liar - he's been sacked for it twice (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-are-we-so-surprised-that-boris-johnson-lied-when-he-s-been-sacked-for-lying-twice-before-a7105976.html).

Of course it's not the likes of Johnson, Gove, and Farage, who will suffer from Brexit, it's the voters they lied to...
Title: Re: How did you vote in the EU referrendum - and do you regret it?
Post by: jeremyp on April 03, 2018, 07:54:14 PM
If he's not a (rich) fool, he does a good job of hiding it most of the time. However, he is definitely a liar - he's been sacked for it twice (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-are-we-so-surprised-that-boris-johnson-lied-when-he-s-been-sacked-for-lying-twice-before-a7105976.html).

I used to think the bumbling fool bit was an act. Now I'm pretty sure it isn't. I cringe in embarrassment every time he as our representative to foreign countries opens his mouth

Quote
Of course it's not the likes of Johnson, Gove, and Farage, who will suffer from Brexit, it's the voters they lied to...
No indeed. The collapse in the pound has increased the real value of Nigel Farage's salary as an MEP which is paid in Euros.