Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: floo on April 25, 2018, 03:44:08 PM
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Deleted
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What's it about?
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Mainly - obese people.
There was one woman who appeared to have a large tail trailing from under her skirt but as it is all taken out of context, she could have been en route to a fancy dress party. We'll never know.
The rest were extremely fat people wearing ill fitting clothes, going about their daily duties in a supermarket.
We know there are obsese people around here and in America, I think this youtube clip was taken in America.
Not a very kind film and, LR, haven't you anything better to do than voyeur on those less fortunate than yourself? If you or I were severely overweight we'd be able to afford decent clothes, the film was obviously of poor people who couldn't.
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I clicked on the link, got a feel for what it was immediately and came off the site. It is disgusting invasion of privacy.
And why the fuck are images of fat people unsuitable for kids is just beyond me. Shouldn’t they be learning that people come in all shapes and sizes? Pointing and laughing at fat people is acceptable in a way no other kind of bulllying is, yet few choose to be obese and very often there are underlying health conditions to blame, or simply poverty.
This has really pissed me off.
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Not going to link. Thanks for the warning, Robbie and Rhiannon.
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There is no excuse for being the size some of those people are when a lot of people in this world are starving!
I was referring to the disgusting creeps who were wearing inappropriate clothing, not being suitable for small children to see, imo.
Hasn’t it occurred to you that poverty is the reason that so many people are obese? What do you think is cheaper, a McDonalds or a basket of fruit and veg? And which is more calorie-dense? Which will actually stop poor people from feeling hungry?
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Hasn’t it occurred to you that poverty is the reason that so many people are obese?
The main reason why fat people are fat is because they eat x calories and burn off y calories during their daily activities but y < x.
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There is no excuse for being the size some of those people are when a lot of people in this world are starving!
I was referring to the disgusting creeps who were wearing inappropriate clothing, not being suitable for small children to see, imo.
You are being very judgmental, aren't you! Why are the unfortunate people who this intrusive video display to the world "disgusting creeps"? Isn't the person who filmed and then put them on YouTube the "disgusting creep"? Perhaps you should consider that they may lack the ability to access appropriate medical services in the USA.
As Rhiannon points out, calories are cheap.
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Thanks for the summaries, won't bother watching that.
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The main reason why fat people are fat is because they eat x calories and burn off y calories during their daily activities but y < x.
Try getting enough calories on benefits.
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Not going to link. Thanks for the warning, Robbie and Rhiannon.
My sentiments too.
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Can’t we make this thread go away? I’m uncomfortable with links like the one in the op being shared here.
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There is no excuse for being the size some of those people are when a lot of people in this world are starving!
I was referring to the disgusting creeps who were wearing inappropriate clothing, not being suitable for small children to see, imo.
Please note this from my previous post: "If you or I were severely overweight we'd be able to afford decent clothes, the film was obviously of poor people who couldn't."
Honestly do you have nothing better to do than voyeur?
(Just seen this)
Can’t we make this thread go away? I’m uncomfortable with links like the one in the op being shared here.
You have a point.
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BBC 1 - now.
Britain's Fat Fight
If you miss it then watch on iPlayer.
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BBC 1 - now.
Britain's Fat Fight
If you miss it then watch on iPlayer.
And that relates to the OP in what way?
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And that relates to the OP in what way?
It’s certainly a more humane and less shaming look at why so many people are struggling. The ‘no excuse’ line looks weaker and weaker.
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I presume he means it's relevant because it is about fat people, like the link in the op. I've often seen programmes about obesity advertised on TV but not bothered to watch them.
Haven't watched this one but I'd think it would have a kinder, more helpful, approach than that awful link. A TV chef talking about all the rubbish people eat and how to avoid it (on a budget, hopefully).
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We’re now even beginning to understand that the gut microbiome is related to obesity - get that fixed and people have a better chance of reduced weight and blood sugar. Again it’s the poorest, with the most rubbish diets, who are mostly likely to be deficient, apart from those with existing health issues such as needing lung term antibiotics. Perhaps in the long term poo transplants will be used as a weight loss measure.
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Also, "for real" is a stupid, meaningless Americanism. What's wrong with "...are real"?
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Also, "for real" is a stupid, meaningless Americanism. What's wrong with "...are real"?
I think ‘for real’ means something slightly different - ‘having a laugh’ or ‘taking the mick’ is closer. That’s how I see it anyway.
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And that relates to the OP in what way?
Instead of trying to be clever (and failing) why don't you watch the programme and find out?
It is about a very real national problem and is looking at practical, realistic ways of tacking the problem. As far as I am concerned, its relevance lies in the fact that I have recently been identified as pre-diabetic and I have a BMI of 27.
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Haven't watched this one ...
Then I would. I think that you may find it rather different from what you expect.
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We’re now even beginning to understand that the gut microbiome is related to obesity - get that fixed and people have a better chance of reduced weight and blood sugar. Again it’s the poorest, with the most rubbish diets, who are mostly likely to be deficient, apart from those with existing health issues such as needing lung term antibiotics. Perhaps in the long term poo transplants will be used as a weight loss measure.
Faecal transplants may help with the physiology of weight control but unless behaviour is changed they will only be a short-term measure. Eating habits - continuing to consume foods which will encourage the modified biome to revert to its previous state must be tackled. Appropriate learning is as important as clinical intervention.
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Instead of trying to be clever (and failing) why don't you watch the programme and find out?
It is about a very real national problem and is looking at practical, realistic ways of tacking the problem. As far as I am concerned, its relevance lies in the fact that I have recently been identified as pre-diabetic and I have a BMI of 27.
Wasn't trying to be clever. Just wasn't sure what point you were making. Given the sound of the link in the OP, you post might be taken in a number of ways.
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I make no apology for this posting thread. We hear a lot about people going hungry in this country, and food banks being set up to help them. Grossly overweight people are eating a HUGE amount of food to get to this size, I think it is immoral when others are going hungry. If they have a food addiction they can get help for it.
You never make any apology for anything, so that's no surprise. You are excessivley narrow-minded and judgemental.
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I make no apology for this posting thread. We hear a lot about people going hungry in this country, and food banks being set up to help them. Grossly overweight people are eating a HUGE amount of food to get to this size, I think it is immoral when others are going hungry. If they have a food addiction they can get help for it.
so why post a video that is apparently of the U.S. with pictures of people who apparently have given no approval for their images to be used?
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I make no apology for this posting thread. We hear a lot about people going hungry in this country, and food banks being set up to help them. Grossly overweight people are eating a HUGE amount of food to get to this size, I think it is immoral when others are going hungry. If they have a food addiction they can get help for it.
Simplistic in the extreme. You are ignoring the fact that poorer people buy cheaper foods which are usually laden with fat and useless calories. Their choices are limited by income in a way that mine thankfully are not. And even I have trouble maintaining my svelte figure given the temptations put in my way. After all I can resist anything but temptation.
You don't on this occasion seem to be able to put yourself in other people's shoes.
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Anyhow, this might be of interest. You put in a few details and find out how fit you are obesity-wise:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43697948
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You don't on this occasion seem to be able to put yourself in other people's shoes.
Whaddya mean, "on this occasion"?
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Whaddya mean, "on this occasion"?
Well I was just staying with the point being discussed.
I'm sure we all have our little areas where we show less empathy than others would think is acceptable.
I for example have no empathy whatsoever with Tory ministers. Mea Culpa. Or not. ;)
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If you think they're bad, look at the sort of person you meet in Waitrose...
Twat. (https://www.dailysquib.co.uk/world/7231-cameron-likes-waitrose-poor-people-cant-go.html)
Prat. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/25/thanks-to-theresa-may-were-free-to-shop-at-waitrose-without-apol/)
What? (https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2017/03/22/45-things-overheard-in-waitrose-thatll-make-you-laugh/)
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I make no apology for this posting thread. We hear a lot about people going hungry in this country, and food banks being set up to help them. Grossly overweight people are eating a HUGE amount of food to get to this size, I think it is immoral when others are going hungry. If they have a food addiction they can get help for it.
You make no apology for posting a link of people who have been filmed without their consent and then sticking it on Youtibe for people all over a globe to point at?
Do you have no compassion for these people at all?
How do you know that the fat person you pass in the street doesn’t have a thyroid issue, doesn’t have weight gain due to taking steroids to cope with chemotherapy?
Cheap food is high fat, high sugar. It doesn’t take a lot of it to make someone overweight. How many times do you need this explaining to you?
And as for your comment about how easily food addiction can be treated, you mentioned that CBT did nothing for you. Not so easy to treat these things at all, is it?
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I make no apology for this posting thread. We hear a lot about people going hungry in this country, and food banks being set up to help them. Grossly overweight people are eating a HUGE amount of food to get to this size, I think it is immoral when others are going hungry. If they have a food addiction they can get help for it.
I think you should.
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Wasn't trying to be clever. Just wasn't sure what point you were making. Given the sound of the link in the OP, you post might be taken in a number of ways
OK NS - Apologies.
The main thrust of the programme is that more than 50% of adults in the UK are overweight - or worse and asks "Why?". It starts with Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall having a consultation with his GP.
It looks at the influences on food buying (eg go to WHSmith and see if you can get out without being tempted to buy a bar of chocolate).
It has a sequence in which children are taken to supermarket, given a trolley and told to fill it.
It looks at the way high streets have become fast food streets.
It considers information available at the point of food purchase and the reluctance of major companies like Kelloggs and Nestle to provide information in a generally accepted way.
... and more.
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OK NS - Apologies.
The main thrust of the programme is that more than 50% of adults in the UK are overweight - or worse and asks "Why?". It starts with Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall having a consultation with his GP.
It looks at the influences on food buying (eg go to WHSmith and see if you can get out without being tempted to buy a bar of chocolate).
It has a sequence in which children are taken to supermarket, given a trolley and told to fill it.
It looks at the way high streets have become fast food streets.
It considers information available at the point of food purchase and the reluctance of major companies like Kelloggs and Nestle to provide information in a generally accepted way.
... and more.
Thanks, apology accepted. Will look out for programme.
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If someone is overweight because of a health condition then of course I feel sorry for them, but definitely not if they are overweight because they overeat.
If some people find this thread offensive the Mods can remove it, I have no problem with that.
No, it shouldn't be removed but should remain for all to see and comment on. Maybe then you might see why it was a mistake to post the link.
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I don't see it as a mistake, but obviously others do. I have had my say and will leave it at that.
Of course you don't, at least 'in public'. Maybe in time though .......
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Moderator We don't remove posts or threads simply because some members might find it offensive. Also while, the OP link might be seen as offensive, it looks like there is a good discussion about obesity.
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I don't think it should be removed, and I'm not as outraged by it as some, but LR's narrow-minded judgementalism "does her no credit" (as she would say).
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If someone is overweight because of a health condition then of course I feel sorry for them, but definitely not if they are overweight because they overeat.
If some people find this thread offensive the Mods can remove it, I have no problem with that.
The problem with the link though is that it isn't actually about the subject of obesity at all: it is no more than a tasteless exploitation of females who patronised Walmart.
It is to the credit of some here that the discussion of it has been more sensitive than the link in the OP is.
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Moderator We don't remove posts or threads simply because some members might find it offensive. Also while, the OP link might be seen as offensive, it looks like there is a good discussion about obesity.
I’m getting that; my unease is around the people in the link in the OP not consenting to being filmed. Offence isn’t an issue; privacy is and even if it’s within the rules of the web I’m not sure it’s what I want to see on a forum such as this. It feels... seedy.
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Thank you. I didn't set out to offend anyone, and actually my main reason for posting it was not so much about obese people, but the totally inappropriate clothes some of the people featured were wearing which didn't do them any favours at all and were offensive, imo.
Why, because you could see parts of their bodies? Would it be ‘offensive’ on slim people where the clothing did do them ‘favours’?
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I’m getting that; my unease is around the people in the link in the OP not consenting to being filmed. Offence isn’t an issue; privacy is and even if it’s within the rules of the web I’m not sure it’s what I want to see on a forum such as this. It feels... seedy.
That's how I felt plus the suggestion that it should not be watched with young children present - as if young kids would be interested in people walking around a supermarket anyway. I suppose they might be if the adult with them was exclaiming with shock horror, other than that I doubt they'd notice.
Regarding the clothes, I think we already made the point that a lot of people can't afford good clothes, they'll buy cheap stuff from market stalls which are not a good fit and soon go out of shape in the wash; better off people who are on the large side are able to buy quite smart clothes. Gok Wan (who was obese as a youngster) has been marvellous with his designs for larger women in the generally affordable TU range but even those are too expensive for many people, certainly for everyday wear - like for going shopping.
Cheap food is usually more fattening than more expensive & stretching the budget is very hard for some. I see plenty of that in my job & am full of admiration for the efforts made, I wouldn't think of criticising someone for their weight or their dress. People do what they can with what they have.
(StevenH I didn't realise there was snob value in shopping at Waitrose! Surely not, I shop where I happen to be regardless of the brand, love Lidl & Co-op, but Waitrose is near where I live. They have lots of special offers. I remember years ago people speaking about M&S in much the same way as in your links but that has died down in recent times. I suppose Waitrose has taken over. Seems silly, it's not Harrod's food hall.)
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Moderator We don't remove posts or threads simply because some members might find it offensive. Also while, the OP link might be seen as offensive, it looks like there is a good discussion about obesity.
And of course, no one actually asked for it to be removed.
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And of course, no one actually asked for it to be removed.
I sort of did. At least I said that it makes me uncomfortable, not because of any perceived offence but because of the breach of privacy.
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I sort of did. At least I said that it makes me uncomfortable, not because of any perceived offence but because of the breach of privacy.
So you did.
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Try getting enough calories on benefits.
Being fat isn't about not having enough calories, it is about having too many.
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Being fat isn't about not having enough calories, it is about having too many.
But the cheapest foods are often the most calorie dense. So it is hard to buy affordable food that doesn’t go over what people need.
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But the cheapest foods are often the most calorie dense. So it is hard to buy affordable food that doesn’t go over what people need.
No, it's quite easy to buy affordable food without going over the calorie "limit" you just buy less of it. What is difficult is to buy cheap food that provides a generally healthy diet. Well it's probably just as easy as it was 30 years ago but you probably have to be prepared to do your own cooking.
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Faecal transplants may help with the physiology of weight control but unless behaviour is changed they will only be a short-term measure. Eating habits - continuing to consume foods which will encourage the modified biome to revert to its previous state must be tackled. Appropriate learning is as important as clinical intervention.
I would be grateful for a link to the programme, please, rather than my trying to find it. I hope it includes the fact that generations need to be taught to cook appropriate - and often cheaper - foods in order to provide better quality calories and probably spend less. This used to be done by parents, but seems to have gone by the board a long time ago.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0b0y27w/britains-fat-fight-with-hugh-fearnleywhittingstall-series-1-episode-1
Not that I've watched it yet.
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No, it's quite easy to buy affordable food without going over the calorie "limit" you just buy less of it. What is difficult is to buy cheap food that provides a generally healthy diet. Well it's probably just as easy as it was 30 years ago but you probably have to be prepared to do your own cooking.
Basically many of the cheaper processed foods contain a lot of calories but don't actually stop you feeling hungry. The trend since the war has been away from meals you cook at home to processed meals cooked in a factory and heated at home or fast-food/take out/eat in/restaurant chains.
The obese are just fulfilling their duties as good consumer units.
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I would be grateful for a link to the programme, please, rather than my trying to find it. I hope it includes the fact that generations need to be taught to cook appropriate - and often cheaper - foods in order to provide better quality calories and probably spend less. This used to be done by parents, but seems to have gone by the board a long time ago.
There are loads of reasons for this. Takeaways became years became the norm. Processed foods became convenient for working families already pushed fir time. And cookery in schools was replaced by Food Technology with as much emphasis on marketing as cooking and a completely out of date, carb-heavy ‘food plate’.
I cook from scratch probably 80-90% of the time. Because we don’t eat meat we can afford to eat reasonably well, focussing on pulses and stuff like brown rice. But it is time and energy consuming; the poorest don’t have the money to have their coolers on for slow roasting or braising cheap cuts, for example.
Jack Monroe’s blog and books are fantastic for cooking on a budget of next to nothing - for those that can get hold of them. I hope that Jack will be given a tv series soon.
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And another programme: "The truth about obesity" BBC 1 8 pm tonight.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b0y2cz
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Bring back the old days..... http://film.britishcouncil.org/health-of-a-nation
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Bring back the old days..... http://film.britishcouncil.org/health-of-a-nation
I love those old films.
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... that generations need to be taught to cook appropriate - and often cheaper - foods in order to provide better quality calories ...
There is no such thing as a "better quality calorie". A calorie is a calorie is a calorie.
A calorie is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one gram of water by one degree Celsius. When used in terms of nutrition a "calorie" is actually a kilocalorie - 1,000 calories. The body uses calorific food in order to produce the energy required to enable muscles to work and to provide the background energy needed to keep the various physiological systems working. The more work your body and musculature does, the more calories it needs. The body also needs other types of nutrient such as proteins, vitamins and minerals.
Calories are packaged very conveniently in carbohydrates which many of the plants we eat produce in prodigious quantities. Another problem is that many of the foods we like to eat - like chocolate - contain lots and lots and lots of calories. However, if you consume too many calories the body does not excrete the unused calories it stores them for future use - as fat.
Obesity has nothing to with the "quality" of calorie simply the quantity.