Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiannon on July 02, 2018, 07:54:27 PM

Title: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on July 02, 2018, 07:54:27 PM
Is it my imagination or will this in theory prevent us from linking to news stories etc here?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/20/eu-votes-for-copyright-law-that-would-make-internet-a-tool-for-control
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 02, 2018, 08:11:07 PM
It might, and obviously not just here but most media. I think it may well fall at any serious challenge because it will reduce the money going to those it seeks to protect.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on July 02, 2018, 09:32:23 PM
Yes, I was  talking to my daughter about this, she's very active in the fan art/fan fiction community, as is her sister, and she's very worried, but I don't see how this will be enforceable, very few stars/franchises/authors object to their fandoms producing fan work (many actively encourage it) and it will rob the net of so much. We are remainers but she said she hopes that Brexit happens now if it keeps the net from this level of control for British users.  :-\

And I'm assuming that when we follow links on here many of the news outlets and others get revenue from advertising, which will decrease if their stuff doesn't get shared.

Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 02, 2018, 09:35:47 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if any Brexit UK followed much the same path. The other question is whether we will be able to access some of the stuff to read it.



https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-copyright-law-will-upload-filters-destroy-the-internet-as-we-know-it/a-44354310
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on July 02, 2018, 09:45:24 PM
Yes, I told her that I thought we'd end up with similar legislation.

It's crazy.  :(
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 02, 2018, 10:22:32 PM
I have some sympathy with the idea. There are many authors whose books are available in their entirety in a similar fashion to early music sharing on the net, remember Napster, god it all seems so long ago. The legislation is, I think, designed to deal with similar but it looks like hit it's a blunt tool.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on July 02, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
Yes, the idea doesn't seem bad on the face of it, but the way that it is being proposed is terrible.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Maeght on July 02, 2018, 10:32:34 PM
Copyright on the internet certainly needs tightening in on my view. Not sure about the full implications of these proposals but support the principle.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Harrowby Hall on July 03, 2018, 08:45:45 AM
Well, it might remove the necessity  for action like this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44691612
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on July 03, 2018, 08:56:47 AM
And on the face of it, it will also prevent memes, links (like the one at the top of this thread and the one HH just posted), parodies, live streaming, gaming channels, review sites and channels, and if anyone tries to post footage of themselves or anyone else and a car stereo is playing in the background or someone is wearing some merch (maybe a t-shirt with an album design on it) then that will be banned too.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 03, 2018, 08:57:25 AM
Well, it might remove the necessity  for action like this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44691612
Not sure it would - that seems to cover a different issue.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: jeremyp on July 04, 2018, 12:53:45 AM
Is it my imagination or will this in theory prevent us from linking to news stories etc here?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/20/eu-votes-for-copyright-law-that-would-make-internet-a-tool-for-control
No, it'll only prevent you from quoting from them.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 04, 2018, 12:56:33 AM
No, it'll only prevent you from quoting from them.
That's still not clear for sites that don't have complex filters. And it isn't clear what quoting from means.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: jeremyp on July 04, 2018, 12:57:05 AM
said she hopes that Brexit happens now if it keeps the net from this level of control for British users.  :-\


Except, of course that May wants far tighter controls on the Internet than this.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: jeremyp on July 04, 2018, 12:58:11 AM
That's still not clear for sites that don't have complex filters.
How is a complex filter defined?

Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 04, 2018, 01:00:29 AM
How is a complex filter defined?
You tell me. Already posted the link further down about that question. The legislation is not specific on the demand.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: jeremyp on July 04, 2018, 01:04:53 AM
You tell me.
I wouldn't have asked the question if I knew.

The problem is that they will probably be so vaguely defined that it will allow copyright holders to target anybody they like.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 04, 2018, 01:08:47 AM
I wouldn't have asked the question if I knew.

The problem is that they will probably be so vaguely defined that it will allow copyright holders to target anybody they like.
So if we both don't know isn't that a worry about what people might think it means?
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 05, 2018, 06:39:48 AM
Looking at the articles in the legislation, it reads as if the rather basic functionality on here would work in our favour. Avatars would be the issue.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Harrowby Hall on July 06, 2018, 08:07:29 AM
It appears that this proposal has been voted down.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on July 06, 2018, 08:39:23 AM
Thanks for that, HH, I had to google to find the story (the irony) but it's not gone, it's just been referred for further discussion and scrutiny. This is still a highly unusual outcome though, as I understand it legislation usually just gets nodded through at this stage.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Udayana on September 12, 2018, 01:29:01 PM
A vote on the amended proposal now gives support:

European Parliament gives thumbs up to controversial copyright reforms (https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/12/european-parliament-gives-thumbs-up-to-controversial-copyright-reforms/)
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on September 12, 2018, 01:32:47 PM
This is the kind of shit that led to Brexit.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: jeremyp on September 12, 2018, 08:43:52 PM
This is the kind of shit that led to Brexit.
I would say most of the shit that led to Brexit was completely made up, but this is a very real massive steaming turd.

On the plus side, it will be completely unenforceable.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Nearly Sane on September 13, 2018, 08:37:53 AM
I would say most of the shit that led to Brexit was completely made up, but this is a very real massive steaming turd.

On the plus side, it will be completely unenforceable.
I'm wary about the idea of it being completely unenforceable. Laws can change behaviour even without enforcement, and to take an example, we're it to be passed, and subject to whatever situation Brexit leaves us with as regards EU law, then I think we might well be careful on here about what we allow. I also suspect that while it will be difficult to enforce, it won't be impossible and a couple of successful  test cases could greatly affect her behaviour.

Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on September 13, 2018, 10:41:17 AM
I agree with NS. The EI law on cookies is now applied across the board because compliance is easier than not. I think hyperlinks to news articles could be covered. The parodies that we’ve linked to on here will be gone. Memes.And fan created content. My kids both read, view and create fan fic and fan art and publish some online. They’ll go, surely.

Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: ippy on September 13, 2018, 02:08:47 PM
Does it matter to us whatever the EU does? We're out soon and will be making our own laws.

ippy
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: Rhiannon on September 13, 2018, 02:41:49 PM
Does it matter to us whatever the EU does? We're out soon and will be making our own laws.

ippy

Most internet platforms have applied EU law on cookies on a global basis. It is probably going to be easier for most platforms to apply this law on the same basis ie. the internet will be changed internationally.
Title: Re: EU Internet Laws, censorship and R&E...
Post by: jeremyp on September 13, 2018, 08:25:13 PM
Does it matter to us whatever the EU does? We're out soon and will be making our own laws.

ippy
No we are not soon out. There’s a two year transition period for starters and even after that, the EU is quite a powerful bloc and so we will feel the consequences of its actions. Were we not leaving, we could stop things like this from happening, if we so chose.