Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiannon on July 03, 2018, 09:13:56 AM

Title: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 03, 2018, 09:13:56 AM
Not often a news story really has me heart in mouth.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/03/thai-cave-qa-how-can-the-boys-be-rescued-and-what-are-the-dangers

Impressed by the British guys who found them, they are pioneers in their field apparently.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: SusanDoris on July 03, 2018, 10:05:14 AM
I do so admire those who, like the two British divers, become experts in an unusual skill, and have the personality and nerve to explore very narrow underwater cave tunnels* and then use those skills to help those in difficulties.

*I read something - in the Built on Bones book - about one tunnel where the cavers had to dislocate their shoulders in order to get through, but when they did so, they discovered a cave with very important Neanderthal bones.

I include mountaineers and others with particular skills which they use to help rescue people from many situations in my unstinted admiration.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: SweetPea on July 03, 2018, 10:20:37 AM
Wonderful news. The world thought they were gone.

....and the British cavers were not young, amazing feat of courage and endurance.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: ad_orientem on July 03, 2018, 10:29:02 AM
Apparently they still face as much as a few months in the caves. None of them know how to swim, so they have to be taught not only to swim but dive too but first of all everyone has to get to full health.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 03, 2018, 10:43:15 AM
I am glad they are all alive, but it is dreadful to think they are likely to be incarcerated in that cave for a lot longer. :(
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 03, 2018, 11:23:36 AM
Apparently they still face as much as a few months in the caves. None of them know how to swim, so they have to be taught not only to swim but dive too but first of all everyone has to get to full health.

Yes, it's that or wait until the waters recede, which may take as long as October. I think there are other experts looking to see if there is a way in from above.

I'm anxious about it just sitting at home following the news feed. Goodness only knows how their families must be doing.

Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: SusanDoris on July 03, 2018, 11:43:24 AM
After the boys are saved, then there will be the information about why and how the boys are there in the first place. One can only imagine the Health and Safety rules that would have been breached if such a day out had been organised here... ...
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 03, 2018, 12:02:44 PM
Apparently the coach had taken boys to the site before. The problem it seems is that he ignored signs warning to stay outside during the rainy season. The rain seems to have followed them in, a bit like a high tide, leaving them stranded, and they must have pushed further in as a way to avoid the encroaching water.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 03, 2018, 09:01:14 PM
Getting scary.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/03/monsoon-rains-may-force-thai-cave-rescue-attempt-this-week

 :-\
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: SusanDoris on July 04, 2018, 07:04:05 AM
This subject is being discussed on IS and this last post is particularly relevant:


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12349716#post12349716
 The post before that one is by one of the IS posters who lives in Thailand.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 04, 2018, 08:19:59 AM
Thanks for that. Sounds like there is some political stuff going on too.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: SusanDoris on July 05, 2018, 08:01:42 AM
On the 'Today' programme there was a report from the site where people are providing food for the 1500 or so (I think that was what I heard) people working towards the rescue of the boys  , there was a choir singing. Apparently the words were on the lines of 'pray to God, he is the one who can move mountains, etc'. Well, no doubt this may provide some comfort to some, but no-one, not even the singers  surely, will think it would be right to cease work and pass the responsibility to God. Ah, well...       
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 05, 2018, 08:05:43 AM
Why, has anyone actually suggested that?

Maybe singing songs that keeps morale up serves a purpose. I'd prefer stirring renditions of Right Said Fred's 'I'm Too Sexy' but I'm guessing that wouldn't translate so well culturally.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 06, 2018, 08:41:05 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44734385

 :(
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Anchorman on July 06, 2018, 09:00:49 AM
Why, has anyone actually suggested that?

Maybe singing songs that keeps morale up serves a purpose. I'd prefer stirring renditions of Right Said Fred's 'I'm Too Sexy' but I'm guessing that wouldn't translate so well culturally.


Yep. Anything which keeps the morale up.
There was a pit disaster - one of far too many in my area - in 1962.
My dad wasn't involved, but he was one of those who went down to try and get survivors (and, sadly, brick up the remains of those who couldn't be recovered(
My mum told me she, and many other miners' wives, walked the three miles to the pit head, and sang at the top.
They sang humns, or pop songs - anything to keep them from thinking about the hell underground.
Curiously, many of the atheists belted out "Abide with me" with gusto, apparently.
More power to them, though personally I oathe that hymn.
Sometimes the words themselves bring remembered comfort; there's no harm in that.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 08, 2018, 01:36:14 PM
Rescue attempt happening now. The first two are out. Such heroism and bravery all round, including from the boys themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/08/thailand-cave-rescue-operation-divers-trapped-boys-live
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Robbie on July 08, 2018, 03:21:11 PM
Why, has anyone actually suggested that?

Maybe singing songs that keeps morale up serves a purpose. I'd prefer stirring renditions of Right Said Fred's 'I'm Too Sexy' but I'm guessing that wouldn't translate so well culturally.

You're quite right, no-one has suggested that singing hymns will bring the boys out, that's just misplaced cynicism. Some people can't wait to put their oar in! Singing helps though.

I just saw a bit of a news report that said six were now out, don't know if that is the case.  I saw four earlier. It's so harrowing, I cannot imagine how their parents feel and as for that diver who died....

Hoping for better news and yes of course there will be an enquiry afterwards but the important thing is they are brought home safe.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 09, 2018, 09:30:10 AM
Hopefully they will manage to get all those lads out in the next 24hrs hours.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Harrowby Hall on July 09, 2018, 10:01:28 AM
This (mis)adventure started with people suggesting that the exercise would be hazardous because "the children" are so young ... etc. And indeed, one of the rescue team has, sadly, lost his life.

It would appear though that "the children" are all adolescent and fit sporting enthusiasts - many of whom can swim (though not dive). it has been reported that the boys perceived to be the weakest were the first to be rescued. It would seem to me that they are probably physically and mentally capable of summoning the skills and attitudes necessary for a satisfactory conclusion to this situation. This is not to downplay the courage and dedication of the rescuers - or of the boys themselves.

Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 09, 2018, 10:05:42 AM
Swimming and cave diving are very different things. It's even vastly different from open after diving. It's managing to do that and not go completely mental that I admire. And claustrophobia has nothing to do with physical fitness or age.

And the youngest of the boys are the same age as my son...very much still a kid.

Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: BeRational on July 09, 2018, 02:08:53 PM
Swimming and cave diving are very different things. It's even vastly different from open after diving. It's managing to do that and not go completely mental that I admire. And claustrophobia has nothing to do with physical fitness or age.

And the youngest of the boys are the same age as my son...very much still a kid.

I dive, and dived in a cave once.

Once was enough!
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 09, 2018, 05:11:38 PM
Eight lads have now been rescued, another four and the coach to go.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Robbie on July 09, 2018, 08:23:37 PM
Thank goodness and I hope this time tomorrow they will all be out.
Most of them are 11-13 years old, children even if they are on the cusp of puberty, one is apparently 17 so he isn't a child but he is to his parents. The fact that they have been fit and athletic will stand them in good stead when they are rescued, I'd think those in hospital will be discharged very soon.

Like all of us I'm so hoping for more good news tomorrow.

The widow and father of the former Navy Seal diver, Saman Kunan, who died have spoken very movingly about him. Their lives will never be the same again.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 10, 2018, 09:38:25 AM
No, it looks like the hospital stays will be longer, apparently the boys are in isolation because of infection and cant see family except through glass. They are talking about family rising them in the next few days but only at a distance and suited up. No idea what the infection risk is.

They are now able to eat easy to digest food and have to wear sunglasses because of the light.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: SusanDoris on July 10, 2018, 10:40:07 AM
I heard on the news there were 90 divers - British, but I might have misheard that! Might have been 19, I suppose 90 is more realistic.  I tried to find text but it was all film, so I phoned a friend who said that the boys were linked to a diver with another in front.

What kind of breathing mask did they have on?
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 10, 2018, 11:17:49 AM
The boys have full face masks. The divers will have whatever is appropriate for them I guess.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 10, 2018, 11:49:14 AM
I suspect the coach will be concerned about the reception he will get, assuming he is rescued.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 10, 2018, 11:55:20 AM
I suspect the coach will be concerned about the reception he will get, assuming he is rescued.

The parents have written to him telling him not to blame himself. What the authorities do remains to be seen. In his shoes I wouldn't need the help of outside agencies to feel utterly wretched about the mistake I'd made. But there may be more to the story yet that we don't know.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 10, 2018, 12:37:13 PM
The parents have written to him telling him not to blame himself. What the authorities do remains to be seen. In his shoes I wouldn't need the help of outside agencies to feel utterly wretched about the mistake I'd made. But there may be more to the story yet that we don't know.

But he should have known it was dangerous to enter the cave at this time of year.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 10, 2018, 12:57:21 PM
But he should have known it was dangerous to enter the cave at this time of year.

I didn't say that he didn't. In which case he's probably beyond furious with himself.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: jeremyp on July 10, 2018, 01:17:43 PM
All the boys and the coach are out. Only four more people to leave.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/44755093
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 10, 2018, 01:38:56 PM
FANTASTIC! :)
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Maeght on July 10, 2018, 03:43:17 PM
An amazing rescue and pleased all the boys are out - and hope the remaining four divers get out okay too. Hadn't realised until now that they had gone into the cave as some initiation challenge apparently. A local tradition which I hope all this puts an end to.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Robbie on July 10, 2018, 05:03:36 PM
Yes!

It is marvellous news, I imagine the whole world has been holding its breath (poor grammar but you get my drift I hope).

I hope those in hospital do not have anything much wrong with them, no parasitical infections or whatever. I read one had some infection in lung but that is treatable. Their parents will be longing to get them home but for now seeing them through a window must suffice - better than a couple of days ago.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 10, 2018, 10:28:11 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/10/brother-ekk-thai-coach-who-put-players-first-right-to-the-end
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 15, 2018, 06:44:21 PM
Extraordinary


http://uk.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-british-cave-diver-pedo-feud-thai-cave-rescue-2018-7?r=US&IR=T
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 15, 2018, 06:51:59 PM
Extraordinary


http://uk.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-british-cave-diver-pedo-feud-thai-cave-rescue-2018-7?r=US&IR=T


What a horrible thing to say! >:(
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Maeght on July 15, 2018, 08:17:24 PM
Bizarre.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: jeremyp on July 15, 2018, 08:20:50 PM
Extraordinary


http://uk.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-british-cave-diver-pedo-feud-thai-cave-rescue-2018-7?r=US&IR=T
Well he lives in Thailand and the only possible reason why you might live in Thailand is to have sex with children.

In case it wasn’t obvious, that was sarcasm.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 15, 2018, 09:14:57 PM
With luck Musk will get the arse sued off him.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Steve H on July 15, 2018, 09:17:31 PM

*I read something - in the Built on Bones book - about one tunnel where the cavers had to dislocate their shoulders in order to get through, but when they did so, they discovered a cave with very important Neanderthal bones.

Jeez! I think I'll stick with cycling as a pastime!
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Robbie on July 15, 2018, 10:46:33 PM
ole-biscuit barrel Steven!

Strikes me that some are jealous/resentful of others who have been able to help in a rescue mission like this - even if their help was not needed it was still in reserve and the effort valued. Sour grapes.

No-one should call someone else a paedo without evidence, quite disgusting.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 15, 2018, 11:06:22 PM
Musk's ex wife has some interesting things to say about him. Yet another successful narcissist.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Harrowby Hall on July 15, 2018, 11:08:01 PM
No-one should call someone else a paedo without evidence, quite disgusting.

Indeed. And - as an insult - it was inaccurate. These boys were not children they were adolescents. Mr Unsworth should sue ...
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 15, 2018, 11:24:07 PM
Indeed. And - as an insult - it was inaccurate. These boys were not children they were adolescents. Mr Unsworth should sue ...

Except that isn't relevant to Musk's comments.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: SusanDoris on July 16, 2018, 06:50:30 AM
One of the posters on IS has lived in Thailand for years and has been posting interesting facts about Thai law and what they could legally come up with against Musk, but probably won't because they love much more the idea of his money.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on July 16, 2018, 10:07:22 AM
Musk is too rich to sue I'm afraid and cannot be challenged unless and until somebody of equal status and resource takes the part of the aggrieved.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 16, 2018, 10:10:57 AM
Musk is too rich to sue I'm afraid and cannot be challenged unless and until somebody of equal status and resource takes the part of the aggrieved.

Normally I'd agree, but in the circumstances I think there may be a chance here; Unsworth is rated as a hero and there may well be a private or public figure willing to bank roll his legal case.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 16, 2018, 10:12:19 AM
The other thing I'm hearing is that Tesla's backers are pissed off. That may bring some pressure for an apology.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 16, 2018, 10:20:53 AM
He's deleted the tweets so I suspect some form of apology won't be far behind. The fanboys on the feed were happy to go along with it.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 18, 2018, 09:07:29 AM
And now apologised. Bigly payout, methinks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44870303
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Roses on July 18, 2018, 10:46:11 AM
One hopes so.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 18, 2018, 01:40:44 PM
It would appear that Mr Unsworth must have told Mr Musk to stick his submarine somewhere, an expression that seems lost on Mr Musk. 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/18/elon-musk-apologises-for-calling-thai-cave-rescue-diver-a-pedo
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 18, 2018, 01:58:29 PM
It would appear that Mr Unsworth must have told Mr Musk to stick his submarine somewhere, an expression that seems lost on Mr Musk. 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/18/elon-musk-apologises-for-calling-thai-cave-rescue-diver-a-pedo
been arguing with a Musk fanboy on Twitter who is struggling to see the difference between the comments.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Rhiannon on July 18, 2018, 02:05:30 PM
been arguing with a Musk fanboy on Twitter who is struggling to see the difference between the comments.

Hope you have some nurofen to hand to deal with the aftereffects of banging your head on your screen.
Title: Re: The Thai Boys
Post by: Nearly Sane on July 18, 2018, 02:15:29 PM
Hope you have some nurofen to hand to deal with the aftereffects of banging your head on your screen.
He didn't manage the heights of being 'savaged by a dead sheep'