Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiannon on August 02, 2018, 07:26:42 AM
-
I don't get this, Isn't 'guys' a gender-neutral term these days? Sure, it can be cringey (as pointed out by Rob Byron) when used by posh parents trying to be cool (as in, 'so are you guys going to help with the washing-up?') And it is irritating for reasons that I can't quite put my finger on. But language has shifted, even in the 80's I had friends who referred to mixed gender groups of people as 'the guys', and I don't see it as a symbol of patriarchy and oppression.
And for years I have routinely referred to my offspring (featuring both genders) as 'chaps' (as in, 'Time to go, chaps' - I have a vague feeling that I am channelling Queenie from Blackadder). Am I sexist?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2018/aug/01/hi-guys-whats-wrong-with-this-greeting
-
I have no objection to it on the griunds given. My objection is that to my ears it sounds like a common, cheap Americanizm. Having said that an English equivalent used particularly when parents are talking to their offspring is 'mate', this drives me to the edge of violence. The chikd is not your mate. You arent merely a friend you are a parent. Now fucking act like one.
There. First rant of the day. I feel so much better.
-
I have no objection to it on the griunds given. My objection is that to my ears it sounds like a common, cheap Americanizm. Having said that an English equivalent used particularly when parents are talking to their offspring is 'mate', this drives me to the edge of violence. The chikd is not your mate. You arent merely a friend you are a parent. Now fucking act like one.
There. First rant of the day. I feel so much better.
My son has always been 'mate' to me and his sisters. I don't think it has prevented me from acting as a parent. 'Mate' is just a colloquialism here, like 'love' or 'dear', only this one probably isn't gender neutral.
'Little git' is the kind of thing shit parents use, and I've heard it on too many occasions.
-
Oh I fully realise its my personal prejudices re the use of language. Although there was the mother of a child on a flight who insisted on kicking the back of my seat. After an hour I asked quite politely if he could stop. The mother grudgingly agreed and then when I had turned away said to her child "its alright mate some people love to complain". That did prompt a response from me asking why she was taking a child on holiday in term time. Things started to get a little heated but my partner pulled me down from the cabin ceiling to avoid full on "escorted off the plane" scenario.
-
The word 'mate' irritates me.
-
Oh I fully realise its my personal prejudices re the use of language. Although there was the mother of a child on a flight who insisted on kicking the back of my seat. After an hour I asked quite politely if he could stop. The mother grudgingly agreed and then when I had turned away said to her child "its alright mate some people love to complain". That did prompt a response from me asking why she was taking a child on holiday in term time. Things started to get a little heated but my partner pulled me down from the cabin ceiling to avoid full on "escorted off the plane" scenario.
Some parents are arseholes, but it's about the parenting, not the use of terms of endearment.
I thought about this some more after my last post and I wonder if there's an unconscious gender bias here. Although girls don't have a similar term that I can obviously think of, on some level we expect mothers and daughters to be friends as well as family. Why isn't it acceptable for boys to be friends with their parents too? Do we think on some level that boys are more 'difficult' and therefore in need of stricter parenting and more discipline? One of the greatest pleasures in my life is hanging out with my kids, and by some miracle they do actually want to spend time with me just doing stuff, even though they are all teenagers now. I'm always their parent, with all that entails, but sometimes I'm their mate as well, and I'm bloody lucky that this is the case.
-
I do like the idea that Jane Garvey doesn't like the term Guy because there is a Guy called Garvey. Just discussing this with the chaps and they've suggested that "JaneGarveyfromradio4" is a new gender neutral term that we should all be employing.
-
I have no objection to it on the griunds given. My objection is that to my ears it sounds like a common, cheap Americanizm. Having said that an English equivalent used particularly when parents are talking to their offspring is 'mate', this drives me to the edge of violence. The chikd is not your mate. You arent merely a friend you are a parent. Now fucking act like one.
There. First rant of the day. I feel so much better.
Generally I feel the same as you do but there are some Americanisms that can be better than the English English versions, like laid back it puts a better picture into my head of someone taking things easy than word relaxed ever did.
Don't set me off, the English language has altered so much from my young days.
Regards ippy
Regards ippy
-
Generally I feel the same as you do but there are some Americanisms that can be better than the English English versions, like laid back it puts a better picture into my head of someone taking things easy than word relaxed ever did.
Don't set me off, the English language has altered so much from my young days.
Regards ippy
Regards ippy
I remember when 'Yours sincerely' was the correct way to sign off a communication....
-
'Guys' is preferable to 'peeps', which was popular while I was at university. If you're wondering, its a corruption of 'people'.
I tend to use 'guys' and 'folks'. When I'm with my friends I use 'idiots'.
It got confusing in the office in the last couple of years because a man called Guy joined team. Not only did 'guys' seem no longer useful it also made the word 'Hi' difficult in casual emails... 'Hi Guy'... see it rhymes so just looks weird. I've taken to using 'hey' when I write emails to him these days.
Any road... to even things out there should really be an equivalent for women. Often 'girls' is used interchangeably with 'guys' but then the complaint comes that that is infantilising women. Oh, but how about 'gals'? I actually know a women who uses that term quite a bit... you wouldn't use it for a man thought, would you.
Ha! there you go, 'guy' isn't a slur on women, its actually a demonstration how well women have appropriated elements of culture traditionally assigned to the masculine. Men have failed to lay any substantial claim to femininity and so can't be 'gals' in the same way. Take that Garvey!
-
I loathe the term ‘girls’ when applied to adult women.
-
I loathe the term ‘girls’ when applied to adult women.
That doesn't worry me.
-
That doesn't worry me.
It's infantilising.
-
It's infantilising.
As I am in my second childhood anyway, no problem. ;D
-
It's infantilising.
I associate "HI Guys and Gals" with Jimmy Savile.
-
I remember when 'Yours sincerely' was the correct way to sign off a communication....
And when officials of the Civil Service terminated letters with:
"I have the honour to remain
Your obedient servant"
To which one could reply (particularly at moments of dispute):
"You have the honour to remain
My obedient servant"
-
I associate "HI Guys and Gals" with Jimmy Savile.
I don't think I have ever heard anyone else use that expression, which would of course be extremely off puting as it is associated with that pervert.
-
I loathe the term ‘girls’ when applied to adult women.
I get that its considered infantilisation, and patronising in the same vein as calling someone 'dear' or 'darling', but I've always thought there was an element of ironic humour to calling adults 'girls' or indeed adult men 'boys'. And a hint of shared pretence to allow for misbehaviour... as in 'lets all behave like children because its fun'.
I'd like to understand why it bothers you so much. Would you mind explaining a little? Do you think there is something more sinister involved?
-
I get that its considered infantilisation, and patronising in the same vein as calling someone 'dear' or 'darling', but I've always thought there was an element of ironic humour to calling adults 'girls' or indeed adult men 'boys'. And a hint of shared pretence to allow for misbehaviour... as in 'lets all behave like children because its fun'.
I'd like to understand why it bothers you so much. Would you mind explaining a little? Do you think there is something more sinister involved?
I don't regard being called 'girl' irritating in the same way as I do with 'dear' and 'darling'.
-
I get that its considered infantilisation, and patronising in the same vein as calling someone 'dear' or 'darling', but I've always thought there was an element of ironic humour to calling adults 'girls' or indeed adult men 'boys'. And a hint of shared pretence to allow for misbehaviour... as in 'lets all behave like children because its fun'.
I'd like to understand why it bothers you so much. Would you mind explaining a little? Do you think there is something more sinister involved?
Depends how it is used. Women can refer to themselves as girls, just as black people can refer to themselves as niggers. The problem is that it from a male point of usage isn't always used as boys and girls but men and girls. As ever on this sort of stuff it's about speaking to power and too often we see the opposite. Is it sinister? Depends. Have a look at Reddit or indeed Trump's campaign and yes. Do people use the term innocently, yep. But to ignore the use of it to patronize in a literal sense, seems to me as if you don't talk to women.
-
I get that its considered infantilisation, and patronising in the same vein as calling someone 'dear' or 'darling', but I've always thought there was an element of ironic humour to calling adults 'girls' or indeed adult men 'boys'. And a hint of shared pretence to allow for misbehaviour... as in 'lets all behave like children because its fun'.
I'd like to understand why it bothers you so much. Would you mind explaining a little? Do you think there is something more sinister involved?
I like 'darlin' (dropped g) as a term of endearment but then it is a colloquialism to where I grew up and it's actually a warm and friendly greeting. Never get called 'dear'.
I think 'girls' bothers me partly because of what you say - it sets the tone for a certain kind of behaviour - a 'girls night out' has different connotations to 'drinks with friends'. But I think a lot of it has to do with how being a 'woman' is still seen as a negative. Even today my girls are told to be have in a 'ladylike' manner at school. 'Girls' is just another way of avoiding labelling women as what they are. I could elaborate more but its probably best that I don't.
Eta ok, I will say this. I've met enough men who hate women to want to claim the word for myself and cling to it. They don't hate 'girls', they don't hate 'ladies', they hate women. 'Girls' is a term that diminishes and denies.
-
When you get to my age it is pleasant to be called a girl, instead of a daft old bat, my youngest sister's term of endearment for her aged sibling. ;D
-
As ever with these things context is important, as is whether or not there is any existing familiarity, and the extent to which local colloquial terms are the norm.
Rhi has mentioned 'darlin(g)' and 'mate', both of which would I think come across oddly here in Glasgow, where the former feels patronising to me because, I suppose, it would be unusual here whereas addressing a male as 'Jim' or 'Jimmy' or a woman or girl as 'hen' would be unremarkable.
A phrase like 'how are you guys doing' as a collective term is one I've used but only where it is someone I've had a conversation or e-mail exchanges with previously: to use it with reference to people some/all of whom I'd just met, such as in a formal meeting (in the bad old days when I had to earn a living), and where I didn't really 'know' at least some of them, would seem crass to me. Perhaps some people feel that a more relaxed or laid-back approach when addressing people is better: whether those being addressed would agree is another matter.
I latterly worked with a guy, a fairly senior manager, who invariably used to address mixed gender groups as 'chaps and chapesses', which made everyone cringe!
-
Anybody lived in Bristol, where 'lover' used to be common, I think applied to m and f, very nice in a Bristow accent, all roight, my lover?
-
Anybody lived in Bristol, where 'lover' used to be common, I think applied to m and f, very nice in a Bristow accent, all roight, my lover?
Norfolk man living in Bristol here. 'My lover' is still going strong. Sounds a little bit too intimate when you first hear it. I'd prefer Bruce Forsyth's "All right, my love".
Re: 'Mate' - my father used to call me that. I hated it; it seemed to indicate his refusal to allow any real intimacy between us.
-
Norfolk man living in Bristol here. 'My lover' is still going strong. Sounds a little bit too intimate when you first hear it. I'd prefer Bruce Forsyth's "All right, my love".
Re: 'Mate' - my father used to call me that. I hated it; it seemed to indicate his refusal to allow any real intimacy between us.
That's sad, Dicky. It'd be nice to think that 'mate' would foster affection. Just asked my son what he feels about it and he shrugged and said, 'it's been alright for the past twelve years, it's just what you call me'.
I now live on the edge of the Fens and there 'matey' refers to any man, even a stranger you spot at the end of the street - "I see matey has a big dog'. In that context I would use ' that bloke'. And 'old boy' refers to an older man where I come from, but to a Fenland native any adult male is an 'old boy'.
-
That's sad, Dicky. It'd be nice to think that 'mate' would foster affection. Just asked my son what he feels about it and he shrugged and said, 'it's been alright for the past twelve years, it's just what you call me'.
I now live on the edge of the Fens and there 'matey' refers to any man, even a stranger you spot at the end of the street - "I see matey has a big dog'. In that context I would use ' that bloke'. And 'old boy' refers to an older man where I come from, but to a Fenland native any adult male is an 'old boy'.
So you, like wiggi, have opted for the great flat lands! (he lives a mile or two from my home village - or used to). I couldn't get away from them fast enough.
You know, there's some controversy over that Norfolk use of "boy". Some experts say that the traditional term was " 'bor" - short for "neighbour". However, the Singing Postman, Alan Smethurst, definitely popularised the use of 'boy' (as in "Heh yer gotta loit, boy?")
A friend of mine gave me a recording of a radio programme on his life story recently - very sad.
-
My husband and I believe in equality of the sexes. He has never treated our daughters or myself any different to the way he would treat the male of the species. :)
-
So you, like wiggi, have opted for the great flat lands! (he lives a mile or two from my home village - or used to). I couldn't get away from them fast enough.
You know, there's some controversy over that Norfolk use of "boy". Some experts say that the traditional term was " 'bor" - short for "neighbour". However, the Singing Postman, Alan Smethurst, definitely popularised the use of 'boy' (as in "Heh yer gotta loit, boy?")
A friend of mine gave me a recording of a radio programme on his life story recently - very sad.
Other Fens - Cambridgeshire. :) And thankfully I'm on the edge so I live where it isn't flat. Still got the big skies though.
Do love Norfolk though, especially the coast.
-
Growing up in the West of Scotland, my father used to talk to random men he met as Jimmy, except when he was annoyed with them when he would refer to them as James.
-
Something I have always done, is tell the kids to 'mind that lady', (as in, don't get in her way). Never 'mind that woman'. But then I also use 'gentleman' in that context too.
-
'Girls' is a term that diminishes and denies.
Thanks Rhiannon, that is nce and clear. I can absolutely see how the term can intentionally be used to undermine women. Thanks for the response to what was probably a question with an obvious answer. I prefer to ask rather than jumpt to conclusions, even when they do seem self-evident. And anyway, I'm not a women and am wary of assuming I'm right about how ther people experience the patriarchy.
cheers
-
seems to me as if you don't talk to women.
that's true, I avoid it whenever possible. I mean they're so weird right? and silly, and they smell funny and don't think properly, like men do. No, I don't like talking to women.
-
I love to hear the differences in the way the various regions use language when addressing others whatever terms are used mostly it's easy to distinguish by tone of voice whether someone is attempting a put down or not,
Using the term girls to a bunch of women could just be a bit of friendly banter.
Regards ippy
-
Hate 'Hi guys' and being called 'mate' by people I don't know. Is there any need for such terms anyway? They are often just an extra word added on the end of a sentence which serves no purpose.
-
I've never been called "Mate" but nothing wrong in anyone saying, "I'm seeing/going out with my mates", if they want to. My husband used to call our pets, "Mate", when they jumped all over him & "Come on mate, lets go out for a walk".
I've heard "You guys" and "These guys" for as long as can remember and see no problem with it. As for Rhod Gilbert saying 'posh' people use the word about their kids - I reckon he made that up. Annoys me when people talk about others as 'posh' especially when they're not - who is 'posh' anyway? I wonder about the woman in the Guardian link, has she nothing else to think about.
I did speak to someone once quite strongly at work about referring to a group of young women as girls in a patronising way, with stupid grin on his face. "How are you today girls?", "Have a nice evening girls". They didn't like it. However I have two daughters who are young women (and are my girls), they go for a night out 'with the girls' and have 'girlfriends'. As did I and still do occasionally.
How words are used and who uses them is key here. Once had a neighbour from Manchester who called me and prob'ly everyone else, "Love" which I found irritating but he was such a nice person, I stopped being irritated. Likewise a young woman who works in a post office which I go to sometimes always says, "My dear", which sounds quaint from someone of her age but she is lovely.
Darling is fine when reserved for loved ones.
-
I've never been called "Mate" but nothing wrong in anyone saying, "I'm seeing/going out with my mates", if they want to.
That's different though. Mates means friends. But people often say it when they don't know you from Adam. You let someone go through a door in front of you 'Thanks mate', someone says 'excuse me mate, do you know what time it is?'. Aaaargh!
-
They mean no harm just as my old neighbour calling people, "Love" and the lady in the post office saying, "Dear" meant no harm. Alright mate?
Glad no-one has mentioned, "Me duck" (pronounced 'dook'), which I believe is common in Nottingham and Derby.
I've heard girls referred to as 'little maids' in Devon.
'Old boy' or 'Old chap' is something I often hear men say when addressing a boy child, I quite like that.
-
They mean no harm just as my old neighbour calling people, "Love" and the lady in the post office saying, "Dear" meant no harm. Alright mate?
Glad no-one has mentioned, "Me duck" (pronounced 'dook'), which I believe is common in Nottingham and Derby.
I've heard girls referred to as 'little maids' in Devon.
'Old boy' or 'Old chap' is something I often hear men say when addressing a boy child, I quite like that.
Of course they mean no harm, but its still annoying!
-
Glad no-one has mentioned, "Me duck" (pronounced 'dook'), which I believe is common in Nottingham and Derby.
It certainly is from this part of the midlands, in fact I used it today. And most days.
Sorry Robbie :P
-
I think Rhi mentioned the dropping of the 'g' at the end of words.
Another pet hate - if you want to hear it to its fullest extent there is a political reporter on Sky news called Beth Rigby - once you here her drop her g's you cannot concentrate on her report. It is so fucking annoying.
-
I associate "HI Guys and Gals" with Jimmy Savile.
Strange considering he didn't say that.
-
Savile referred to everyone as "Guys and gals".
Anyway you guys I am going to bed. Nighty nighty.
-
Savile referred to everyone as "Guys and gals".
Anyway you guys I am going to bed. Nighty nighty.
Yes, but his well known phrase was 'Ow's about that then Guys and Gals' rather than 'Hi Guys and Gals'.
Nighty night.
-
They mean no harm just as my old neighbour calling people, "Love" and the lady in the post office saying, "Dear" meant no harm. Alright mate?
Glad no-one has mentioned, "Me duck" (pronounced 'dook'), which I believe is common in Nottingham and Derby.
*cough*Leicester*cough*
Which, incidentally, has nothing to do with waterfowl but (apparently) comes from an old English form of address, my duke.
Needless to say there's a Beeb article on it, containing a frankly surreal video clip of Dolly Parton having a go at it: https://tinyurl.com/yd8oq2dt
For the full experience however you have to bow down before the genius that was the late and the ridiculously great Kevin Coyne (Derby lad, but never mind): https://youtu.be/F1BOBK8iBQU
-
That's different though. Mates means friends. But people often say it when they don't know you from Adam. You let someone go through a door in front of you 'Thanks mate', someone says 'excuse me mate, do you know what time it is?'. Aaaargh!
Where I come from it’s a friendly greeting. It’s just a colloquial term and it’d be weird not to hear it.
Coming back to darlin’, that’s another one that’s just a friendly term, between both genders - I get called ‘darlin’ by women as well as men.
One very powerful way in which these terms work is to make you feel at home. I was talking to someone called Ian from another part of the country the other day and he said that when he works where I grew up all the blokes there call him ‘ee’. That made me laugh because it’s true, every name will be shortened to a single syllable. I’d not even thought about it before and I guess it happens in other places but it was a great observation.
-
I think Rhi mentioned the dropping of the 'g' at the end of words.
Another pet hate - if you want to hear it to its fullest extent there is a political reporter on Sky news called Beth Rigby - once you here her drop her g's you cannot concentrate on her report. It is so fucking annoying.
Trent, this is starting to sound like a bias against Estuary English.
-
Trent, this is starting to sound like a bias against Estuary English.
If that is what it sounds like, you are most likely correct ;)
-
The best English is clear received English, imo.
-
The best English is clear received English, imo.
Dialectist >:(
-
I love accents and dialects. They’re really attractive.
-
I love accents and dialects. They’re really attractive.
And RP is merely one more of these amongst many, remember.
-
And RP is merely one more of these amongst many, remember.
And it's changed considerably in the last 50 years - for the better I would suggest in that it was previously very unclear.
-
And it's changed considerably in the last 50 years - for the better I would suggest in that it was previously very unclear.
Agree very much with this.
-
Broad dialects can be extremely hard to understand. My mother went crazy if we used the local accent when my siblings and I were kids.
When my husband and I started our married life in Derbyshire, we struggled for quite a while to understand what the locals were saying, until our ears became attuned.
-
Trent, this is starting to sound like a bias against Estuary English.
The acid test for Estuary ask a suspect Estuary speaker to say the girl's, or can be a woman's name Natterley, If they pronounce the tees, it's not a genuine Estuary accent.
Regards ippy
-
Broad dialects can be extremely hard to understand. My mother went crazy if we used the local accent when my siblings and I were kids.
When my husband and I started our married life in Derbyshire, we struggled for quite a while to understand what the locals were saying, until our ears became attuned.
Try listening. This isn't the USA, where a comparatively small number of accents/dialects (not the same thing, as if you needed the telling) hold sway over colossal swathes of land. No; this is a relatively small island where accents/dialects are divided by roads. I know whereof I speak; I was, for beaurocratic reasons, born in Nuneaton (technically in the West Midlands ... just) but raised properly and rightly in the East Midlands, in Leicestershire. The A5 around Hinckley and Nuneaton (especially around the Long Shoot, IYKWIM), makes all the difference. Nuneaton people for some reason say batch; here we use the right and proper term for a bread roll with a crispy and crunchy top, namely, cob.
You can't fix stupid.
-
The acid test for Estuary ask a suspect Estuary speaker to say the girl's, or can be a woman's name Natterley, If they pronounce the tees, it's not a genuine Estuary accent.
Regards ippy
Nor should each syllable be sounded. It's 'Na'lee' when said properly in Estuary. And I think that is a hangover from the rural days.
A discerning ear should be able to tell the difference between Estuary and East London too.
My accent has softened quite a bit since I've moved out although it's still apparent where I'm from - I do pronounce my ts, at least some of the time - but as soon as I am back with my mates from the east end I start channelling Pat Butcher. It's so embarrassing and my kids find it hysterical.
-
Try listening. This isn't the USA, where a comparatively small number of accents/dialects (not the same thing, as if you needed the telling) hold sway over colossal swathes of land. No; this is a relatively small island where accents/dialects are divided by roads. I know whereof I speak; I was, for beaurocratic reasons, born in Nuneaton (technically in the West Midlands ... just) but raised properly and rightly in the East Midlands, in Leicestershire. The A5 around Hinckley and Nuneaton (especially around the Long Shoot, IYKWIM), makes all the difference. Nuneaton people for some reason say batch; here we use the right and proper term for a bread roll with a crispy and crunchy top, namely, cob.
You can't fix stupid.
Completely wrong, it's a roll, you can make a mention of the contents followed by roll.
Regards ippy
-
Nor should each syllable be sounded. It's 'Na'lee' when said properly in Estuary. And I think that is a hangover from the rural days.
A discerning ear should be able to tell the difference between Estuary and East London too.
My accent has softened quite a bit since I've moved out although it's still apparent where I'm from - I do pronounce my ts, at least some of the time - but as soon as I am back with my mates from the east end I start channelling Pat Butcher. It's so embarrassing and my kids find it hysterical.
On thinking about it you're right yes very good, I love to hear accents and they do make me smile sometimes.
My brother's been living out in Australia for 50 years his accent hasn't altered a jot, his terms of phrase definitely have.
I come from north London and have to say it must be about the only place in the country that hasn't got an accent, funny that, it must be a part of the same reason my brothers accent hasn't shifted after all these years.
The accent that represents squeaking chalk to me was some old lady, lady this or that I don't know, she was on the radio speaking about Charrrtam, I remember thinking where's that until later when Kent was mentioned. (Charrrtam isn't an exaggeration of how she pronounced Chatam).
I can take any accent and enjoy the difference, until we get plum I'm known to walk away from plum speakers before I say something, I begin to see a red mist whenever I hear plum.
Plum to me is the language for those stuck up their own, just in case I wasn't clear enough.
Regards ippy
-
Nor should each syllable be sounded. It's 'Na'lee' when said properly in Estuary. And I think that is a hangover from the rural days.
A discerning ear should be able to tell the difference between Estuary and East London too.
My accent has softened quite a bit since I've moved out although it's still apparent where I'm from - I do pronounce my ts, at least some of the time - but as soon as I am back with my mates from the east end I start channelling Pat Butcher. It's so embarrassing and my kids find it hysterical.
This stuff fascinates me, as used to teach accents and dialects in linguistics. We are used to what we call Fulham accent in west London, but don't know how similar to East London and estuary. It can be very strong.
Glottal stops are found all over, e.g. Manchester accents have them. We always imitate accents wherever we go, probably not recommended. I still say "my lover", (Bristol).
-
Nor should each syllable be sounded. It's 'Na'lee' when said properly in Estuary. And I think that is a hangover from the rural days.
Although ippy's example does use the correct Estuary orthography.
-
ippy: I can take any accent and enjoy the difference, until we get plum I'm known to walk away from plum speakers before I say something, I begin to see a red mist whenever I hear plum.
Plum to me is the language for those stuck up their own, just in case I wasn't clear enough.
--------
People who speak 'plum' as you call it are people the same as you. You're making a judgement based on how they speak. It can be difficult to understand if they mumble, speak too quickly and let one word roll into another. However any strong accent can be difficult for a listener if they are not used to it, as discussed above.
Anyone who has to speak publicly or needs interpersonal skills will be taught how to speak slowly and clearly, not to lose their accent but so they can be understood but a lot of people don't have that sort of role so will speak as they always have.
I don't know why you've singled out that particular way of speaking, you seem resentful.
-
I agree a plummy accent is unpleasant, many of the early broadcasters had such an accent, no more thank goodness.
I have done quite a lot of public speaking in my time, and being able to speak clearly has come in very useful.
-
I'm impressed!
You're right it is important to speak clearly so that you can be understood when you are dealing with people.
-
Ew, people.
I lather on the accent to keep them away from me, not to be understood. If they can't understand me, great - they can piss off.
-
Some of the nicest people I've met speak plum.