Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rhiannon on August 16, 2018, 04:54:03 PM
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A very moving piece in the Graun.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/aug/16/my-dog-was-looking-into-my-eyes-as-she-died-the-grief-of-losing-a-pet-is-real
This from the comments section is so true, and something that everyone who is blessed by having an animal that wants to share their lives with us should bear in mind:
You have your family, your friends, your job, your hobbies, your interests, your sports, your holidays, your events, your concerts.
All I have is you.
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The comments are awful. I only read a few; that was enough :'(
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My symbolism of grief is with me always – I mixed my dog’s ashes in with tattoo ink and had her attached permanently to my forearm. When I see the tattoo, I see her.
Is this for real? Would she do the same if her child had died?
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Is this for real?
In her case I don't know (though I've no reason to doubt her word), but it's definitely a 'thing', if that's what you mean.
Would she do the same if her child had died?
That would be up to her, I guess. There's no law against it AFAIK, and some people find it therapeutic after a bereavement, which is of course the whole point of the exercise: https://tinyurl.com/y9jk46ls
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My symbolism of grief is with me always – I mixed my dog’s ashes in with tattoo ink and had her attached permanently to my forearm. When I see the tattoo, I see her.
Is this for real? Would she do the same if her child had died?
Who knows? She is talking about a pet, not a child.
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Who knows? She is talking about a pet, not a child.
It happens, though: https://tinyurl.com/y7yk9cyp
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I'm sure it does, but I don't know why anyone would be outraged by it.
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Animals can get to you though - even if you're not an 'animal' person like me, as I found out.
Mrs G had always wanted to adopt a rescue ex-racing greyhound so in late 1999 we contacted a local greyhound rescue organisation who came to see us, explained the issues with greyhounds (keep them muzzled when outside until they forget racing, since every cat, Westie or Jack Russell could be chased) and they eventually suggested we adopt a 1 year old dog who's been in training but had developed a reluctance to be put in the 'traps'.
He was large for a greyhound - he could put his front paws on your shoulders and look down at you - but he was quiet and gentle and no problem with cats our wee dogs whatsoever, or kids since our grandchildren started arriving in 2003. For years he happily went into kennels whenever we were away and came out much as he went in then in 2013 he went into the kennels over the Easter break and for the first time they reported that he hadn't eaten well and hadn't settled.
So before the summer holiday I took him to his regular vet beforehand to ask advice before his going into kennels after he hadn't done so well a couple of months back. The vet looked at him and said that there was no point in putting him through it again: he was already old for a greyhound, was clearly in decline and had some sort of growth in his abdomen. The vet said there and then that his time was up and that there was no alternative - so I went home alone, and it was awful for all of us.
No more pets!
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I'm sure it does, but I don't know why anyone would be outraged by it.
Me either.
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I have felt extremely bereaved when a pet has died. One of mine was 'put down' & I was devastated, can still remember what I felt. It never occurred to me to have a tattoo in their honour, i'm not a tattoo type person.
If someone has a pet's name tattooed they might regret it in later life but that's their business, can always have it removed I suppose.
A young woman of my acquaintance had a child who died aged 4. She had her name tattooed on the inner part of her upper arm, in white. That reduced me to tears. The memory of it still does even though the woman moved on eventually, married & had another child (but her husband died! No more tattoos thank goodness).
Grieves me to think what so many people go through in life.
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If someone has a pet's name tattooed they might regret it in later life but that's their business, can always have it removed I suppose.
You may have missed the point, Robbie. It's not having tattoo to remind her of her pet which I thought was bizarre, but mixing the pet's ashes into the tattoo ink. Who knows what health hazards that might have involved.
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You may have missed the point, Robbie. It's not having tattoo to remind her of her pet which I thought was bizarre, but mixing the pet's ashes into the tattoo ink. Who knows what health hazards that might have involved.
Ashes aren't hugely toxic. There's far worse stuff in tattoo ink, believe me.
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Animals can get to you though - even if you're not an 'animal' person like me, as I found out.
Mrs G had always wanted to adopt a rescue ex-racing greyhound so in late 1999 we contacted a local greyhound rescue organisation who came to see us, explained the issues with greyhounds (keep them muzzled when outside until they forget racing, since every cat, Westie or Jack Russell could be chased) and they eventually suggested we adopt a 1 year old dog who's been in training but had developed a reluctance to be put in the 'traps'.
He was large for a greyhound - he could put his front paws on your shoulders and look down at you - but he was quiet and gentle and no problem with cats our wee dogs whatsoever, or kids since our grandchildren started arriving in 2003. For years he happily went into kennels whenever we were away and came out much as he went in then in 2013 he went into the kennels over the Easter break and for the first time they reported that he hadn't eaten well and hadn't settled.
So before the summer holiday I took him to his regular vet beforehand to ask advice before his going into kennels after he hadn't done so well a couple of months back. The vet looked at him and said that there was no point in putting him through it again: he was already old for a greyhound, was clearly in decline and had some sort of growth in his abdomen. The vet said there and then that his time was up and that there was no alternative - so I went home alone, and it was awful for all of us.
No more pets!
I'm sorry. :(
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You may have missed the point, Robbie. It's not having tattoo to remind her of her pet which I thought was bizarre, but mixing the pet's ashes into the tattoo ink. Who knows what health hazards that might have involved.
No I didn't miss that HH. I thought it was macabre and skirted around it but each to their own I suppose. The ashes would be sterile surely.
I've heard of making a diamond-type stone for a ring out of ashes, human not pet.
Takes all sorts.
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No I didn't miss that HH. I thought it was macabre and skirted around it but each to their own I suppose. The ashes would be sterile surely.
I've heard of making a diamond-type stone for a ring out of ashes, human not pet.
Takes all sorts.
I know someone who had jewellery made from her husband's ashes. It mattered so much to her. She even went to see the making process.
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You may have missed the point, Robbie. It's not having tattoo to remind her of her pet which I thought was bizarre, but mixing the pet's ashes into the tattoo ink. Who knows what health hazards that might have involved.
Why would there be any? Given the temperatures involved needed to turn a body to ash, I mean.
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I know someone who had jewellery made from her husband's ashes. It mattered so much to her. She even went to see the making process.
So much for letting go and moving on.
There's nowt as queer as folk.
Please let no-one make jewellery out of me!
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I know someone who had jewellery made from her husband's ashes. It mattered so much to her. She even went to see the making process.
Wow what a great idea, :) I will suggest that to my husband, I think he would like the idea. Mind you, if my ashes were made into jewellery, they would be so exceptional only a trillionaire would be able to afford to buy them. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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So much for letting go and moving on.
There's nowt as queer as folk.
Please let no-one make jewellery out of me!
They'd been married over 40 years. How on earth do you let go and move on from that?
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Wow what a great idea, :) I will suggest that to my husband, I think he would like the idea. Mind you, if my ashes were made into jewellery, they would be so exceptional only a trillionaire would be able to afford to buy them. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Here you go, LR.
https://ashesintoglass.co.uk
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Here you go, LR.
https://ashesintoglass.co.uk
Thanks.
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Thanks.
I think that the paperweight is actually a very nice alternative to the traditional urn, for people who keep ashes in the home.
I've only ever been to the internment of ashes once. It was awful. Only me and my dad were there; my dad hadn't realised that because he hadn't specified a container the ashes came out in a kind of metal tea caddy and were poured straight into a hole in the ground, and as it was windy quite a lot didn't make it. Quick prayer, job done. It was appalling.
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I think that the paperweight is actually a very nice alternative to the traditional urn, for people who keep ashes in the home.
I've only ever been to the internment of ashes once. It was awful. Only me and my dad were there; my dad hadn't realised that because he hadn't specified a container the ashes came out in a kind of metal tea caddy and were poured straight into a hole in the ground, and as it was windy quite a lot didn't make it. Quick prayer, job done. It was appalling.
I would never wish to keep an urn of ashes, they are best scattered to the four winds. I am not sentimental about dead bodies, I would sooner remember how they were in life.
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I would never wish to keep an urn of ashes, they are best scattered to the four winds. I am not sentimental about dead bodies, I would sooner remember how they were in life.
I'm the same; I've never visited a graveside.
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Apparently you can have your ashes put in a sky rocket, an idea I rather like. :)
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Apparently you can have your ashes put in a sky rocket, an idea I rather like. :)
Gene Roddenberry, who created Star Trek, had a portion of his ashes put into orbit; a few other individuals have done likewise (one of them being Timothy Leary), though the cost renders it all but prohibitive.
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I was thinking of a firework, not an actual rocket.
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That's been done too. The end result is the same - the ashes are burnt up sooner or later.
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Returning to the subject of the thread, which is pet bereavement, cats have a habit, it seems, of disappearing when they know their time has come. Both the cats I've lived with, Punch, our family pet when I was a child, and Joe, our pet in the 80s and 90s, did that, so we never found out what happened to them. They both lived to a good age in cat terms.
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Returning to the subject of the thread, which is pet bereavement, cats have a habit, it seems, of disappearing when they know their time has come. Both the cats I've lived with, Punch, our family pet when I was a child, and Joe, our pet in the 80s and 90s, did that, so we never found out what happened to them. They both lived to a good age in cat terms.
A number of our cats disappeared over the years, especially at our previous property. We assumed they had been shot by poachers, who were after pheasants bred for a shoot in the meadow next to our property. When the last one went I put my foot down and said , 'no more'.
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A number of our cats disappeared over the years, especially at our previous property. We assumed they had been shot by poachers, who were after pheasants bred for a shoot in the meadow next to our property. When the last one went I put my foot down and said , 'no more'.
Much more likely to have been the gamepkeeper. A cat can take a young pheasant.
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I was cured of having pets at a very young age. The cat we had used to hunt for mice in the neighbouring corn field and hobbled back home having had its front legs cut off by a harvester. The vet came and drowned it in our bath to put it out of its misery. At least we didn't have to eat it as we did the rabbits in the hutches. Those were the days!
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I was cured of having pets at a very young age. The cat we had used to hunt for mice in the neighbouring corn field and hobbled back home having had its front legs cut off by a harvester. The vet came and drowned it in our bath to put it out of its misery. At least we didn't have to eat it as we did the rabbits in the hutches. Those were the days!
You were lucky to have had a bath! When our cats were being drowned the vet had to use a old paint can filled with rainwater.
(With apologies to Monty Python)
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Much more likely to have been the gamepkeeper. A cat can take a young pheasant.
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Much more likely to have been the gamepkeeper. A cat can take a young pheasant.
No it was probably poachers, who were a real pest, there was no game keeper.
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I was cured of having pets at a very young age. The cat we had used to hunt for mice in the neighbouring corn field and hobbled back home having had its front legs cut off by a harvester. The vet came and drowned it in our bath to put it out of its misery. At least we didn't have to eat it as we did the rabbits in the hutches. Those were the days!
My father used to drown kittens in a bucket, until my mother put her foot down about it, and insisted he got a vet to do the job.
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Much more likely to have been the gamepkeeper. A cat can take a young pheasant.
Were there there any Chinese restaurants nearby?
Regards ippy.
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Were there there any Chinese restaurants nearby?
Regards ippy.
Now, now - no political incorrectness, please. We leave that sort of thing to BoJo.
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Were there there any Chinese restaurants nearby?
Regards ippy.
During the end stages of the war cats were eaten on my home island as the food supplies had run out. The Germans wanted to eat my Great Grandmother's cat, she was permitted to stay in the family home, which they were occupying, as she was Irish. She put the evil eye on them and the cat survived the war.
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There was an episode of New Tricks in which a serial killer murdered people with dog's liver stews.
Just saying.
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There was an episode of New Tricks in which a serial killer murdered people with dog's liver stews.
Just saying.
Are dog's livers supposed to be poisonous? They eat dogs in China, I believe.
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Are dog's livers supposed to be poisonous? They eat dogs in China, I believe.
A high concentration of Vitamin A if I remember correctly. Over time if you ate too much of it you would die from Vitamin A toxicity.
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A high concentration of Vitamin A if I remember correctly. Over time if you ate too much of it you would die from Vitamin A toxicity.
Riiiiiiiiiight, I will remove roast dog from my menu! ;D
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You were lucky to have had a bath! When our cats were being drowned the vet had to use a old paint can filled with rainwater.
(With apologies to Monty Python)
Ah well our cat was upper class. The bath was one of those 3 foot long metal tubs which you can hang on the wall. Nothing but the best for our cat.
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Riiiiiiiiiight, I will remove roast dog from my menu! ;D
Don't snack on huskies either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Mertz
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The following is what I think I remember reading, but I stand to be corrected by anyone who is an expert:
The general rule in nature is tha carnivores eat herbivores, not other carnivores. The flesh of carnivors is toxic, and, over time, harmful,causing various unpleasant neurological diseases, which are significantly commoner in Korea than elsewhere, because of their habit of eating dogs. As they say in Korea: "a dog isn't just for Christmas: if it's a big one, there'll be plenty left over for boxing day". [Edit] - however, I can't find anything about this on google, so it may be cobblers. There are variousclaimed health risks fro dog meat, such as rabies and various parasites, but none that are absolutely intrinsic to the nature of the meat.
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The following is what I think I remember reading, but I stand to be corrected by anyone who is an expert:
The general rule in nature is tha carnivores eat herbivores, not other carnivores.
It's a general rule, yes; not invariable (humans eat sheep, for instance) but it's notable that the herbivores - vegan animals, if you like - are some of the larger and stronger land mammals: cattle, for example, or horses in certain parts. (This is purely cultural; it's not a thing in the UK but it is in other countries). Cut out the middle (m)animal and go straight to the plants, is my advice ;)
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The following is what I think I remember reading, but I stand to be corrected by anyone who is an expert:
The general rule in nature is tha carnivores eat herbivores, not other carnivores. The flesh of carnivors is toxic, and, over time, harmful,causing various unpleasant neurological diseases, which are significantly commoner in Korea than elsewhere, because of their habit of eating dogs. As they say in Korea: "a dog isn't just for Christmas: if it's a big one, there'll be plenty left over for boxing day". [Edit] - however, I can't find anything about this on google, so it may be cobblers. There are variousclaimed health risks fro dog meat, such as rabies and various parasites, but none that are absolutely intrinsic to the nature of the meat.
Not sure about that. Lions have been known to eat Hyenas, cheetahs even leopards. Hyenas eat anything they can get.
Even humans eat fish which eat fish...or....birds that eat fish or insects or small reptiles or worms. Many animals and birds that humans eat regularly are omnivores.
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The following is what I think I remember reading, but I stand to be corrected by anyone who is an expert:
The general rule in nature is tha carnivores eat herbivores, not other carnivores. The flesh of carnivors is toxic, and, over time, harmful,causing various unpleasant neurological diseases, which are significantly commoner in Korea than elsewhere, because of their habit of eating dogs. As they say in Korea: "a dog isn't just for Christmas: if it's a big one, there'll be plenty left over for boxing day". [Edit] - however, I can't find anything about this on google, so it may be cobblers. There are variousclaimed health risks fro dog meat, such as rabies and various parasites, but none that are absolutely intrinsic to the nature of the meat.
Does this help, Steve?
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.596.7570&rep=rep1&type=pdf
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From Wiki on Douglas Mawson:
It was unknown at the time that Husky liver contains extremely high levels of vitamin A. It was also not known that such levels of vitamin A could cause liver damage to humans.[9] With six dogs between them (with a liver on average weighing 1 kg), it is thought that the pair ingested enough liver to bring on a condition known as Hypervitaminosis A.
A quick google tells me that the Arctic diet is particularly high in Vitamin A for carnivores, therefore Husky liver is even more toxic.
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It's a general rule, yes; not invariable (humans eat sheep, for instance) but it's notable that the herbivores - vegan animals, if you like - are some of the larger and stronger land mammals: cattle, for example, or horses in certain parts. (This is purely cultural; it's not a thing in the UK but it is in other countries). Cut out the middle (m)animal and go straight to the plants, is my advice ;)
Horses and cows are the two most deadly land animals in the UK.
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By the way, I know this thread has gone from pet bereavement to homicide by domestic herbivore, but as the thread starter can I just say this is fine by me. It's like one of those weird pub conversations only there isn't some bloke in the corner attempting to sing Mustang Sally.
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Horses and cows are the two most deadly land animals in the UK.
Surely there is one land animal that comes above them in terms of being deadly ;)
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Surely there is one land animal that comes above them in terms of being deadly ;)
Indeed, the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog!
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Surely there is one land animal that comes above them in terms of being deadly ;)
My cat doesn't count, in spite of numerous attempts she hasn't actually murdered anyone yet.