Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on September 01, 2018, 07:42:40 AM
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This is all over my timelines. Isn't this the seventh seal or something?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/surgeon-doctor-punch-laura-kuenssberg-bbc-attractive-david-wilkinson-a8516996.html
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And I have to say...…..He was very, very....drunk!
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And I have to say...…..He was very, very....drunk!
Middle class people don't get drunk. They merely adjust their equilibrium.
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It wasn't a pub crawl either. They were taking in local culture.
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Disappointing it wasn't Laura, (in spite of brexit or because of brexit), Kuenssberg that got punched in the face, not that I would want to promote punching any one, other than those involved in the sport of boxing.
ippy
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Disappointing it wasn't Laura, (in spite of brexit or because of brexit), Kuenssberg that got punched in the face, not that I would want to promote punching any one, other than those involved in the sport of boxing.
ippy
That reads as a very unpleasant and misogynistic comment.
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Disappointing it wasn't Laura, (in spite of brexit or because of brexit), Kuenssberg that got punched in the face, not that I would want to promote punching any one, other than those involved in the sport of boxing.
ippy
What a horrible thing to say! :o
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Punching women. Hilarious.
Is that supposed to be a blow for equality?
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I think "hilarious" might be over-egging it but it's faintly amusing. At least I find it faintly amusing when i talk about punching people I am never going to actually punch.
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I think "hilarious" might be over-egging it but it's faintly amusing. At least I find it faintly amusing when i talk about punching people I am never going to actually punch.
A man punching a woman?
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In real life I would not find it funny to see a man punching a woman or a woman punching a man, outside a boxing ring. Having witnessed both I found both equally horrible as neither victim hit back - it just wasn't in either victim's nature to be violent and the unfairness of someone taking advantage of that and showing no mercy was what made it worse. At least if 2 people are fighting each other it doesn't seem so jarring.
But as a remark that is not seriously intended, I don't have a problem with a man talking about punching a woman, unless of course he wanted to punch her because she was a woman rather than because she was an annoying human being who happened to be a woman.
I sometimes talk about punching my kids....to their face. And one or the other of them sometimes jumps me. But it's a joke....so long as I win.
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In real life I would not find it funny to see a man punching a woman or a woman punching a man, outside a boxing ring. Having witnessed both I found both equally horrible as neither victim hit back - it just wasn't in either victim's nature to be violent and the unfairness of someone taking advantage of that and showing no mercy was what made it worse. At least if 2 people are fighting each other it doesn't seem so jarring.
But as a remark that is not seriously intended, I don't have a problem with a man talking about punching a woman, unless of course he wanted to punch her because she was a woman rather than because she was an annoying human being who happened to be a woman.
I sometimes talk about punching my kids....to their face. And one or the other of them sometimes jumps me. But it's a joke....so long as I win.
I think maybe this needs to be seen in the context of the fact that Ippy is a man, and the people involved are men, and also that Kuenssberg has received so many rape and death threats that she needs her own security to attend political events. In a world in which 'joke' comments make women afraid to do their jobs properly, I don't find it funny.
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I think maybe this needs to be seen in the context of the fact that Ippy is a man, and the people involved are men, and also that Kuenssberg has received so many rape and death threats that she needs her own security to attend political events. In a world in which 'joke' comments make women afraid to do their jobs properly, I don't find it funny.
I'm fine with a man talking about punching a woman, provided it wasn't because she was a woman and he would say the same thing about punching a man. I wouldn't see the relevance of rape and death threats made by other people. to the comment made by Ippy. I saw it as Ippy being facetious.
I actually find it worse that a man was talking about whether a female journalist was attractive enough to do her job.
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I'm fine with a man talking about punching a woman, provided it wasn't because she was a woman and he would say the same thing about punching a man. I wouldn't see the relevance of rape and death threats made by other people. to the comment made by Ippy. I saw it as Ippy being facetious.
I actually find it worse that a man was talking about whether a female journalist was attractive enough to do her job.
Worse? No. Offensive? Undoubtedly.
Ippy's comment, if made say, with you and me sitting in a pub or in his front room would be mildly amusing to you and annoying to me. On social media though, it's a different thing. We may be a backwater of the internet in that sense, but it's still a public comment wishing violence on someone who needs security to do her job as it is. It wouldn't be acceptable on Twitter, it isn't here.
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Worse? No. Offensive? Undoubtedly.
Ippy's comment, if made say, with you and me sitting in a pub or in his front room would be mildly amusing to you and annoying to me. On social media though, it's a different thing. We may be a backwater of the internet in that sense, but it's still a public comment wishing violence on someone who needs security to do her job as it is. It wouldn't be acceptable on Twitter, it isn't here.
Maybe "amusing" would be the wrong word for me to use in either of those scenarios - I wouldn't take it seriously - I would see it as a facetious comment rather than something that would form part of an intelligent discussion.
Unless I thought he was serious about wishing she had been punched in which case I would be annoyed that the person was supporting a violent assault against someone just because they do not like the way that person carries out their job. But given Ippy said he was against punching people outside of a boxing ring, and given his pithy "humour" in the past, I figured he was expressing disapproval in a flippant way rather than actually wanting Laura to get punched. I could be wrong about that of course. But it doesn't come anywhere close to the kind of online trolling she has complained about. People wishing journalists (male or female) or even politicians would get punched is pretty tame and the target would just shrug it off.
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In real life I would not find it funny to see a man punching a woman or a woman punching a man, outside a boxing ring. Having witnessed both I found both equally horrible as neither victim hit back - it just wasn't in either victim's nature to be violent and the unfairness of someone taking advantage of that and showing no mercy was what made it worse. At least if 2 people are fighting each other it doesn't seem so jarring.
But as a remark that is not seriously intended, I don't have a problem with a man talking about punching a woman, unless of course he wanted to punch her because she was a woman rather than because she was an annoying human being who happened to be a woman.
I sometimes talk about punching my kids....to their face. And one or the other of them sometimes jumps me. But it's a joke....so long as I win.
Unusual Gabriella but I have to agree with you and this post of yours just about sums up my feelings toward Laura K.
I in my old fashioned way thought it was the reporters job to present the facts for us to make up our own minds about whatever we like to think about the reported news, perhaps someone should tell Laura K this, oh yes and in this case whatever the reporter's point of view happens to be about brexit.
Regards ippy
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A lot of people disagree with her, Ippy.
Try asking a woman who has been punched by a man whether your statement is acceptable or not.
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Punching women. Hilarious.
Is that supposed to be a blow for equality?
I have had plates thrown in my face.
By a woman.
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I have had plates thrown in my face.
By a woman.
And the relevance of that is what?
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And the relevance of that is what?
I would have thought the relevance obvious.
But then you are a feminist.
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I would have thought the relevance obvious.
But then you are a feminist.
Dirty word to you that, isn't it?
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A lot of people disagree with her, Ippy.
Try asking a woman who has been punched by a man whether your statement is acceptable or not.
I can understand that some women who have been punched by a man would find the statement unacceptable, and that's their right. I wouldn't generalise that to all women.
And I think it would get pretty boring for some of us on here if we had to consider the feelings of every victim who might potentially be reading this forum before we post flippant comments.
Also, women who box might not find it unacceptable. I've been punched in the face and got a fat lip and bruised jaw and I did not find the comment unacceptable because the comment didn't seem a genuinely held position - it seemed to be just a flippant remark.
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Dirty word to you that, isn't it?
Yes.
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I can understand that some women who have been punched by a man would find the statement unacceptable, and that's their right. I wouldn't generalise that to all women.
And I think it would get pretty boring for some of us on here if we had to consider the feelings of every victim who might potentially be reading this forum before we post flippant comments.
Also, women who box might not find it unacceptable. I've been punched in the face and got a fat lip and bruised jaw and I did not find the comment unacceptable because the comment didn't seem a genuinely held position - it seemed to be just a flippant remark.
I think my comment was more about getting Ippy to see that there are other points of view and that actually some things aren't acceptable, or will be pushing it. I've no interest in making this place a 'safe space' though. It's good to be reminded sometimes that people are capable of holding views that are pretty disgusting. Not that I include Ippy in that.
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A lot of people disagree with her, Ippy.
Try asking a woman who has been punched by a man whether your statement is acceptable or not.
I've absolutely no doubt that you'll read something or other into whatever I was to say if I were to reply to this post of yours, so I'll leave it there.
Regrds ippy.
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I've absolutely no doubt that you'll read something or other into whatever I was to say if I were to reply to this post of yours, so I'll leave it there.
Regrds ippy.
I think that Rhia's comment was aimed at me.
As far as I am concerned, feminism is a crock of shit.
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I think that Rhia's comment was aimed at me.
As far as I am concerned, feminism is a crock of shit.
Different from thinking that feminist is dirty word.
Although both speak volumes.
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I think maybe this needs to be seen in the context of the fact that Ippy is a man,
A man??!!!???
How on earth did one of those get in here?
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I think that Rhia's comment was aimed at me.
As far as I am concerned, feminism is a crock of shit.
And why, in your worthless opinion, would that be?
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I think that Rhia's comment was aimed at me.
As far as I am concerned, feminism is a crock of shit.
So you would prefer the bad old days when the male of the species was the gender in chief, and women were expected to do their bidding and kow tow to them. If it wasn't for the Suffragettes women would still be regarded as chattels.
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That reads as a very unpleasant and misogynistic comment.
Is a really unpleasant comment misogynistic just because it is directed at a woman? If Ipsy had said “I wish it were Robert Peston that got punched” would it have demonstrated hatred against men?
I think Ippy just has hatred for Laura Kuenssberg.
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Is a really unpleasant comment misogynistic just because it is directed at a woman? If Ipsy had said “I wish it were Robert Peston that got punched” would it have demonstrated hatred against men?
I think Ippy just has hatred for Laura Kuenssberg.
Ippy shouldn't have made the comment, no one should have been punched, either male or female.
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Ippy shouldn't have made the comment, no one should have been punched, either male or female.
What about theists or is administering a 'wedgie' to them sufficient?
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What about theists or is administering a 'wedgie' to them sufficient?
And in English?
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What about theists or is administering a 'wedgie' to them sufficient?
Your inability to see common humanity is troubling.
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Is a really unpleasant comment misogynistic just because it is directed at a woman? If Ipsy had said “I wish it were Robert Peston that got punched” would it have demonstrated hatred against men?
I think Ippy just has hatred for Laura Kuenssberg.
Why would Ippy 'hate' Laura Kuenssberg, does he know her personally?
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Why would Ippy 'hate' Laura Kuenssberg, does he know her personally?
She broadcasts reports on the BBC that imply Brexit is going wrong.
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As far as I am concerned, feminism is a crock of shit.
Strange generalisation to make.
Given the evidence that various forms of feminism have helped many people escape from violence and oppression, hard to think how any sensible person could dismiss all feminism so glibly.
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Gabriella, perhaps Humph will elaborate, I'm sure he would agree with what you said, there must be something more which irks him.
jeremy, thanks. I wouldn't have thought a journalist's opinions on Brexit would be sufficient reason to actually hate them; there are so many opinions and we can't hate everyone who differs in opinion from us. I've never seen Ippy express that about Laura K.
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Gabriella, perhaps Humph will elaborate, I'm sure he would agree with what you said, there must be something more which irks him.
jeremy, thanks. I wouldn't have thought a journalist's opinions on Brexit would be sufficient reason to actually hate them; there are so many opinions and we can't hate everyone who differs in opinion from us. I've never seen Ippy express that about Laura K.
Rob, Laura K gives me the impression that anything pro Brexit is almost impossible for her to impart on air, it's a struggle for her.
I admit that I detest this fault of hers, as I have said in my previous post somewhere that I expect reporters to report the news for us to listen to and then make up our own minds about this "supposedly" impartial reporting for ourselves, it'd be good to hear more impartial reporting from all sorts of areas.
Regards ippy.
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jeremy, thanks. I wouldn't have thought a journalist's opinions on Brexit would be sufficient reason to actually hate them; there are so many opinions and we can't hate everyone who differs in opinion from us. I've never seen Ippy express that about Laura K.
Wishing she would be punched in the face seems a pretty good example of expressing hatred.
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Yes. Ippy has explained above how he feels about Laura Kuenssberg's opinions and would like more impartial journalism - is there such a thing? I've not come across any on either side of the Brexit argument.
He hates her opinions but that's no reason to hate her personally or want her punched.
However I don't think he meant that remark to be taken literally.
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Yes. Ippy has explained above how he feels about Laura Kuenssberg's opinions and would like more impartial journalism - is there such a thing? I've not come across any on either side of the Brexit argument.
He hates her opinions but that's no reason to hate her personally or want her punched.
However I don't think he meant that remark to be taken literally.
Her "Supposedly" impartial reporting
I've not used the word hate in anything I have written on this thread, I particularly used the word I much prefer, "detest".
I've not seen so many misreads of my posts as there are on this particular thread, I'm surprised, we all misread from time to time including myself but this thread takes the ticket.
ippy
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One of the problems here though, ippy, is what you mean by 'impartial'.
Looking at the headlines today an impartial view could be that when all the rhetoric is put to one side the lack of substantive information about the reality of Brexit, along the incompetence of figures in the current government and Tory party, and when taking into account their persistent internal squabbling, suggest that Brexit isn't going well at all and is, put bluntly, a shambolic mess.
Reporting to the effect that Brexit was a great idea that was going swimmingly thanks to our wonderful PM and her competent colleagues would, of course, not be 'impartial' at all: after all, the headlines today confirm that the opposite is the case.
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One of the problems here though, ippy, is what you mean by 'impartial'.
Looking at the headlines today an impartial view could be that when all the rhetoric is put to one side the lack of substantive information about the reality of Brexit, along the incompetence of figures in the current government and Tory party, and when taking into account their persistent internal squabbling, suggest that Brexit isn't going well at all and is, put bluntly, a shambolic mess.
Reporting to the effect that Brexit was a great idea that was going swimmingly thanks to our wonderful PM and her competent colleagues would, of course, not be 'impartial' at all: after all, the headlines today confirm that the opposite is the case.
Of course there'll never be 100% impartiality in media reporting, my objection is more about the various 'reporters' standing in front of the cameras telling us something they like to refer to as "analysis", now that's something I don't expect from any reporter whatever their personal POV, they're there to just report the news, from the horses mouth where possible and then we can draw our own conclusions without some of the likes of Laura K's or any of other 'reporters' most uncalled for "analysis".
Can't remember when but it was two or three months back Laura k was taken off air for some revision about her presentation, something similar to when Jeremy Bowen was censured for his anti Israeli reporting where a fine was given to him as was the BBC its self fined at the same time, about five-seven years back, but of course that was far more serious than Laura K's case.
Regards ippy
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Detest = hate
detest
dɪˈtɛst/Submit
verb
verb: detest; 3rd person present: detests; past tense: detested; past participle: detested; gerund or present participle: detesting
dislike intensely.
"she really did detest his mockery"
synonyms: abhor, hate, loathe, despise, abominate, execrate, regard with disgust, feel disgust for, feel repugnance towards, feel distaste for, shrink from, recoil from, shudder at, be unable to bear, be unable to abide, feel hostility to, feel aversion to, feel animosity to, find intolerable, dislike, disdain, have an aversion to; archaicdisrelish
"I do detest social climbers"
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Of course there'll never be 100% impartiality in media reporting, my objection is more about the various 'reporters' standing in front of the cameras telling us something they like to refer to as "analysis", now that's something I don't expect from any reporter whatever their personal POV, they're there to just report the news, from the horses mouth where possible and then we can draw our own conclusions without some of the likes of Laura K's or any of other 'reporters' most uncalled for "analysis".
Can't remember when but it was two or three months back Laura k was taken off air for some revision about her presentation, something similar to when Jeremy Bowen was censured for his anti Israeli reporting where a fine was given to him as was the BBC its self fined at the same time, about five-seven years back, but of course that was far more serious than Laura K's case.
Regards ippy
She is not a "reporter", but the BBC political editor, i.e. journalist and analyst. Overall, I think she does a great job, despite the slip last year over Corbyn's views on "shoot to kill" responses.
Anyone wanting to prevent people appearing on TV because of their looks deserves censure of some sort.
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Detest = hate
detest
dɪˈtɛst/Submit
verb
verb: detest; 3rd person present: detests; past tense: detested; past participle: detested; gerund or present participle: detesting
dislike intensely.
"she really did detest his mockery"
synonyms: abhor, hate, loathe, despise, abominate, execrate, regard with disgust, feel disgust for, feel repugnance towards, feel distaste for, shrink from, recoil from, shudder at, be unable to bear, be unable to abide, feel hostility to, feel aversion to, feel animosity to, find intolerable, dislike, disdain, have an aversion to; archaicdisrelish
"I do detest social climbers"
I see 'detest' as a softer option and having checked my words before using 'detest', some see that word in the same way that I do and a lot of the misreading of my posts, I suspect, there' a touch of the remoaner being picky, (note the ref to I suspect being picky), of course I might be wrong.
If you look back to the content of my posts on this thread it shouldn't be a surprise to you the amount of times my posts were misread, disliked fine I'll live with that, misread, well why so many misreads?
Regards ippy
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She is not a "reporter", but the BBC political editor, i.e. journalist and analyst. Overall, I think she does a great job, despite the slip last year over Corbyn's views on "shoot to kill" responses.
Anyone wanting to prevent people appearing on TV because of their looks deserves censure of some sort.
I've not made any reference to the looks of anyone reporting the news, nor am I interested in their looks?
Regards ippy
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I've not made any reference to the looks of anyone reporting the news, nor am I interested in their looks?
Regards ippy
He didn't say you did. That bit of Udayana's posts was a general observation.
Detest, hate, loathe, abhor, whatever (they all mean the same), but I didn't think you detested the woman, only her views & I said that.
Neither did I think your original remark about decking her (or whatever word you used), was meant seriously.
So I don't believe I misunderstood you. You may have misunderstood me but who cares?
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He didn't say you did. That bit of Udayana's posts was a general observation.
Detest, hate, loathe, abhor, whatever (they all mean the same), but I didn't think you detested the woman, only her views & I said that.
Neither did I think your original remark about decking her (or whatever word you used), was meant seriously.
So I don't believe I misunderstood you. You may have misunderstood me but who cares?
I was very clear and you were not on your own.
Some dictionaries take the same view as me about the use of 'detest'.
Regards ippy
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I suppose he lost his patients. Ok, ok, I know where the cloakroom is.
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I think "hilarious" might be over-egging it but it's faintly amusing. At least I find it faintly amusing when i talk about punching people I am never going to actually punch.
Having had a friend who was killed by one punch, maybe I find your idea of humour uninteresting.
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Having had a friend who was killed by one punch, maybe I find your idea of humour uninteresting.
What you find uninteresting is your problem.