Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Rhiannon on October 22, 2018, 10:00:47 AM

Title: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 22, 2018, 10:00:47 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/22/tories-identify-mps-vile-language-theresa-may-yvette-cooper

Seriously?
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Aruntraveller on October 22, 2018, 10:05:36 AM
Not sure what you're "seriously" is trying to imply here. Are you incredulous at Cooper's reaction, or is it more that you think it's a non-issue, or is it just that you don't think the Tories would id guilty parties?

FTR, I think the whole way we use language in the political arena is an issue. Although the above wouldn't be my first focus. I think the whole turning the EU into an enemy, and talking in military terms of battles and the like is extremely dangerous.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on October 22, 2018, 10:10:05 AM
Not sure what you're "seriously" is trying to imply here. Are you incredulous at Cooper's reaction, or is it more that you think it's a non-issue, or is it just that you don't think the Tories would id guilty parties?

FTR, I think the whole way we use language in the political arena is an issue. Although the above wouldn't be my first focus. I think the whole turning the EU into an enemy, and talking in military terms of battles and the like is extremely dangerous.
Another example of the failure of the public schools to produce rounded human beings.

Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 22, 2018, 10:13:37 AM
Not sure what you're "seriously" is trying to imply here. Are you incredulous at Cooper's reaction, or is it more that you think it's a non-issue, or is it just that you don't think the Tories would id guilty parties?

FTR, I think the whole way we use language in the political arena is an issue. Although the above wouldn't be my first focus. I think the whole turning the EU into an enemy, and talking in military terms of battles and the like is extremely dangerous.
In the Andrew Marr show we had Amanda Platell condemning rightly the language used about May but then praising her paper's coverage of Davis dressed up as an RAF pilot fighting the 'battle for Britain'.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on October 22, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
In the Andrew Marr show we had Amanda Platell condemning rightly the language used about May but then praising her paper's coverage of Davis dressed up as an RAF pilot fighting the 'battle for Britain'.
He would have to be hoisted into the cockpit like some soporific lethargic Henry the Eighth.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 22, 2018, 10:19:52 AM
Not sure what you're "seriously" is trying to imply here. Are you incredulous at Cooper's reaction, or is it more that you think it's a non-issue, or is it just that you don't think the Tories would id guilty parties?

FTR, I think the whole way we use language in the political arena is an issue. Although the above wouldn't be my first focus. I think the whole turning the EU into an enemy, and talking in military terms of battles and the like is extremely dangerous.

My ‘seriously’ is that I had no idea MPs we’re talking about her like this in the first place. I find it hard to get my head around it tbh. Didn’t know what else to say.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Aruntraveller on October 22, 2018, 10:22:28 AM
My ‘seriously’ is that I had no idea MPs we’re talking about her like this in the first place. I find it hard to get my head around it tbh. Didn’t know what else to say.

Oh ok. And yes it does seem incredible, but as I said elsewhere, here we are and here we go. We are way beyond clusterfuck territory now.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 22, 2018, 10:26:04 AM

Not something restricted to Tories

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/14/labour-mp-jess-phillips-knife-corbyn-vote-loser-general-election
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 22, 2018, 10:41:59 AM
Didn’t McDonnell want to lynch Esther McVey?

Frankly though I don’t know how May find the strength to get out of bed at the moment.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 22, 2018, 10:42:36 AM
Oh ok. And yes it does seem incredible, but as I said elsewhere, here we are and here we go. We are way beyond clusterfuck territory now.

Well we - someone - voted for these people.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 22, 2018, 10:48:54 AM
Didn’t McDonnell want to lynch Esther McVey?

Frankly though I don’t know how May find the strength to get out of bed at the moment.
The McDonnell comment was allegedly reporting some one else speaking, though since he didn't say that he condemned it utterly, doesn't really work as an excuse. He did call her a 'stain on humanity' at the same time. Cooper did say he should have apologised to McVey for his language.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: SusanDoris on October 22, 2018, 01:59:00 PM
Didn’t McDonnell want to lynch Esther McVey?

Frankly though I don’t know how May find the strength to get out of bed at the moment.
Quiet strength of character, long parliamentary experience, and, I hope, the awareness that that long experience will tell her that there is no-one qualified to take her place and to remain calm and steady.

I have today e-mailed my MP (and had a response) to ask him to pass on to Theresa May my support for her.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Steve H on October 22, 2018, 02:02:10 PM
Quiet strength of character, long parliamentary experience, and, I hope, the awareness that that long experience will tell her that there is no-one qualified to take her place and to remain calm and steady.

I have today e-mailed my MP (and had a response) to ask him to pass on to Theresa May my support for her.
Are you serious? She's a bloody disaster!
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 22, 2018, 02:04:20 PM
Are you serious? She's a bloody disaster!

She might be but she's doing the job she has to do. Talk of being knifed probably isn't helping and like it or not, we need her to be able to function.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Anchorman on October 22, 2018, 02:05:50 PM
I remember studying the antics of some of the nineteenth and early twentieth century so-called 'greats' This is mild by comparison. I do feel a modicum of sympathy for May, even though the situation in which she finds herself is almost entirely of her own making. I could not care less for the Tory party, though.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Robbie on October 22, 2018, 02:10:33 PM
I agree with Susan& Rh. Don't like her politics but that vileness is well out of order. When I read it I thought of schoolboyskids trying to outdo eachother with gory talk, said as much to a colleague who laughed and said, "That's politicians". Doesn't surprise me but doesn't excuse it.

Another example of the failure of the public schools to produce rounded human beings.

What kind of a sweeping statement is that?

Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Roses on October 22, 2018, 02:14:16 PM
I have been disgusted by the remarks made about TM by some of her own party. :o
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Anchorman on October 22, 2018, 02:23:16 PM
I have been disgusted by the remarks made about TM by some of her own party. :o
 



I studied 'Modern Studies' at secondary school.
Our teacher was the daughter of the former (formidable) Labour secretary of State for Scotland, Willie Ross...by that time "Lord Ross of Marnock".
We went o Westminster - as sixteen year olds - to meet some of the 'high heid yins' there.
Ross gave us the tour; when we went up the stairs to the 'strangers gallery' to watch the then 15 minute PMQs, he said.......
Watch oot fer yon B-----ds".
"Who? the opposition (Thatcher was Tory leader....)"
"Naw....thon back-stabbing c----s behind Jim."
Says it all, really.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 22, 2018, 03:00:21 PM
As NS has pointed out though, this is not exclusively a Tory problem.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on October 22, 2018, 10:43:48 PM
So the frustration and bad vibes generated within Conservatism have manifested themselves in violent talk eh?


Unfortunately snobbery prevents them from using terms like F******useless C***.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 23, 2018, 03:04:07 PM
Taking being a Tory wanker to a whole new level.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/23/former-tory-mp-stewart-jackson-urged-to-apologise-for-cretin-jibe-at-boy-with-eu-flag
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 04:02:35 PM
Is that possible?

TBH though I'm a little uncomfortable with the tweet itself, it may well be that the kid is a huge fan of a second vote, but it could also be that it's just something that is seen as good in the family. There were a number of pictures on the protest of very small kids holding signs, and I just get a sense of unease about it. That said, the reaction from different sides on different issues is quite often to suddenly start spluttering about Hitler Youth
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Roses on October 23, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Is that possible?

TBH though I'm a little uncomfortable with the tweet itself, it may well be that the kid is a huge fan of a second vote, but it could also be that it's just something that is seen as good in the family. There were a number of pictures on the protest of very small kids holding signs, and I just get a sense of unease about it. That said, the reaction from different sides on different issues is quite often to suddenly start spluttering about Hitler Youth


You make a good point.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 23, 2018, 05:03:15 PM
Is that possible?

TBH though I'm a little uncomfortable with the tweet itself, it may well be that the kid is a huge fan of a second vote, but it could also be that it's just something that is seen as good in the family. There were a number of pictures on the protest of very small kids holding signs, and I just get a sense of unease about it. That said, the reaction from different sides on different issues is quite often to suddenly start spluttering about Hitler Youth

There’s no excuse for the behaviour of Mr Tory-Wanker, is there? I think in this case kids have been involved in the protests by their parents because Brexit is going to screw up their lives the most. I feel it as a parent and it is horrible. In that sense I don’t see it as any different to taking kids on protects about climate change or environmental damage. Should this particular picture have been shared? I’m no fan of sharenting but the kid is old enough to give consent. Shame it flushed out some of the worst of Brexiters but the worst don’t draw the line at children.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 05:52:17 PM
There’s no excuse for the behaviour of Mr Tory-Wanker, is there? I think in this case kids have been involved in the protests by their parents because Brexit is going to screw up their lives the most. I feel it as a parent and it is horrible. In that sense I don’t see it as any different to taking kids on protects about climate change or environmental damage. Should this particular picture have been shared? I’m no fan of sharenting but the kid is old enough to give consent. Shame it flushed out some of the worst of Brexiters but the worst don’t draw the line at children.

Jackson behaved like an eejit but I don't read it as directed at the kid who isn't old enough to have a twitter account. For the father to be that upset by an unpleasant but in the world of Twitter a mild comment, seems ignorant of what twitter is.

Both sides, as with nearly everything that has 2 sides, have their numpty quotient. It doesn't mean anything about the side's rightness, nor can it be used as a generalisation.

Obviously parents can take tgeir children on protests, and may have to to go on the protest. I just don't like the idea that it validates the opinion, or that it seems to understimate that tge children may be used. Many people voting Brexit did it because they thought it was best for the future of their kids too.

Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 05:55:51 PM
So the frustration and bad vibes generated within Conservatism have manifested themselves in violent talk eh?


Unfortunately snobbery prevents them from using terms like F******useless C***.
so you condemn them for being unpleasant in different language to you even though you think you and they agree?
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: jeremyp on October 23, 2018, 06:27:02 PM
Are you serious? She's a bloody disaster!
Actually, given the job she has to do, I think she is doing about as well as anybody could reasonably expect.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Roses on October 23, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Actually, given the job she has to do, I think she is doing about as well as anybody could reasonably expect.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: jeremyp on October 23, 2018, 06:32:34 PM
Is that possible?

TBH though I'm a little uncomfortable with the tweet itself, it may well be that the kid is a huge fan of a second vote, but it could also be that it's just something that is seen as good in the family. There were a number of pictures on the protest of very small kids holding signs, and I just get a sense of unease about it. That said, the reaction from different sides on different issues is quite often to suddenly start spluttering about Hitler Youth

I agree, but I don't think that is a good reason to publicly announce that the tweeter (assume it was to him the insult was directed, not the boy) is a pathetic cretin.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 06:46:42 PM
Actually, given the job she has to do, I think she is doing about as well as anybody could reasonably expect.
Does that include not taking the responsibility for Windrush scandal?
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: jeremyp on October 23, 2018, 06:53:24 PM
Does that include not taking the responsibility for Windrush scandal?
To be honest, I seem to have Brexit tunnel vision and I forgot about that.

She certainly should have done better on Windrush.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 06:57:19 PM
Actually, given the job she has to do, I think she is doing about as well as anybody could reasonably expect.

I am slightly confused though that you posted in reply to jakswan on the Brexit thread

"Does the Brexit thing look like it's going well to you? Can't you agree that, whether or not Brexit is good in principle, what is actually happening is a complete shambles?'

Surely these 2 statements conflict? Has May no responsibility for the 'complete shambles'? If not, are you saying that the 'complete shambles' isn't really a point against jakswan's position because you actually think this is the best the negotiations could go?
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 06:59:07 PM
To be honest, I seem to have Brexit tunnel vision and I forgot about that.

She certainly should have done better on Windrush.
Better than lying and instituting racist policies that msy have resulted in deaths is hardly a high bar.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: jeremyp on October 23, 2018, 07:05:18 PM
I am slightly confused though that you posted in reply to jakswan on the Brexit thread

"Does the Brexit thing look like it's going well to you? Can't you agree that, whether or not Brexit is good in principle, what is actually happening is a complete shambles?'

Surely these 2 statements conflict? Has May no responsibility for the 'complete shambles'? If not, are you saying that the 'complete shambles' isn't really a point against jakswan's position because you actually think this is the best the negotiations could go?
No. The best we could do is stop Brexit altogether at least while we work out what we really want from it. However, Theresa May operates in a particular context and is probably doing about as well as any politician could do given the constraints under which she is working and her innate cowardice (also possessed by all the other politicians, as far as I can tell).
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 07:33:25 PM
No. The best we could do is stop Brexit altogether at least while we work out what we really want from it. However, Theresa May operates in a particular context and is probably doing about as well as any politician could do given the constraints under which she is working and her innate cowardice (also possessed by all the other politicians, as far as I can tell).
So your point is she is a useless coward, and as such she is doing as good as a useless coward would do. Which again just means that as far as you are concerned jakswan should just se this as as good as it was ever going to be.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: jeremyp on October 23, 2018, 07:41:59 PM
So your point is she is a useless coward, and as such she is doing as good as a useless coward would do.
Did I say "useless"?

I think, since you are now manufacturing posts for me that I never made, we should stop here.

Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 07:44:11 PM
Did I say "useless"?

I think, since you are now manufacturing posts for me that I never made, we should stop here.
What do you think she has done that is useful?
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 23, 2018, 08:23:56 PM
I don't know about Jeremy but I think the most useful thing regarding Brexit that she's done is not seriously piss off the rest of Europe. They might not like what is going on but they don't seem to have taken against her personally in a way that may have happened had we a different PM. But that is trying to prove a negative.

Of course she's made a complete screw up of domestic affairs.

Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Nearly Sane on October 23, 2018, 08:27:52 PM
I don't know about Jeremy but I think the most useful thing regarding Brexit that she's done is not seriously piss off the rest of Europe. They might not like what is going on but they don't seem to have taken against her personally in a way that may have happened had we a different PM. But that is trying to prove a negative.

Of course she's made a complete screw up of domestic affairs.
Yeah, I can see that but in some ways surely that is just the constraints, as jeremyp put it, that she is working in. It's easy for Johnson or High to pose because they have no responsibility.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Rhiannon on October 23, 2018, 08:31:23 PM
Yeah, I can see that but in some ways surely that is just the constraints, as jeremyp put it, that she is working in. It's easy for Johnson or High to pose because they have no responsibility.

I dunno, Johnson would have let the mask slip by now. May hasn't.
Title: Re: Theresa May and the lynch mob
Post by: Steve H on October 23, 2018, 10:27:22 PM
Taking being a Tory wanker to a whole new level.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/23/former-tory-mp-stewart-jackson-urged-to-apologise-for-cretin-jibe-at-boy-with-eu-flag
What a big, tough guy - making fun of an 11-year-old kid.