Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Roses on January 27, 2019, 10:47:21 AM
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47015184
Apparently 5% of the British population don't believe the Holocaust happened, and one in 12 think it was exaggerated. I think this is deeply shocking, surely there is enough evidence of one of the most terrible events in human history.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47015184
Apparently 5% of the British population don't believe the Holocaust happened, and one in 12 think it was exaggerated. I think this is deeply shocking, surely there is enough evidence of one the most terrible events in human history.
This is truly horrific, but it was always going to happen.
Even if there were only five Deniers at the end of the War, they teach their children and those children theirs, the number is always going to grow and it is only by education that then number will be reduced and even then there will be the dyed-in-the-wool few who will never change.
It would be interesting to find out how many of those deniers are also abnti-semitic.
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This is truly horrific, but it was always going to happen.
Even if there were only five Deniers at the end of the War, they teach their children and those children theirs, the number is always going to grow and it is only by education that then number will be reduced and even then there will be the dyed-in-the-wool few who will never change.
It would be interesting to find out how many of those deniers are also abnti-semitic.
While correlation doesn't show causation, I suspect in this case the anti semitism drives the denial.
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Besides the Jews there were many others whom the evil Nazis despised, like non whites, homosexuals and people with disabilities, who were exterminated too.
It's important to get the facts right, or you play right into the deniers' hands. Non-whites - specifically black people of African or Afro-Caribbean origin - were second-class citizens in Nazi Germany, but were not severely persecuted just because of their skin colour. I read a few years ago an account by an elderly black German, son of a white German mother and a Jamaican father, who was a child during the Nazi era. He was very annoyed at the time that he wasn't allowed to join the Hitler Youth, but otherwise enjoyed his childhood. (Naturally, when he discovered what the Nazis had been doing in the camps after the war, he was horrified.)
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That the attitudes were widespread. That you can't package it as being about the Nazis, bad guys, men in the black hats.
Agreed. Tragically people with those attitudes are coming to the fore again, and that needs cracking down upon a.s.a.p.
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And after the Allies win they did nothing about the anti-homosexual laws that the Nazis had. And indeed we terrorised Alan Turing to death. To an extent we are all in denial.
Who’s we?
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The generally accepted figure for the number of Jews killed by the Nazis is 6 million. I’ve always thought that this was incontrovertible in the face of the evidence and I really don’t understand why anybody would deny it unless they were anti-Semitic.
However, the Jews were only one of the groups persecuted. The Nazis slaughtered pretty much everybody they didn’t consider to be on a similar level to the white “aryan race”. In fact, their racism was the cause of their downfall. They would never have considered invading Russia if they hadn’t thought of the Slavic peoples (including Russians) as being inferior.
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Who’s we?
You, me, us.
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and were generally left alone provided they were discreet.
What a genteel image you have of 1950's Britain.
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The Romani people of Europe were also targeted by the Nazis for extermination. Between 220,000 and 500,000 were murdered.
What a genteel image you have of 1950's Britain.
Frequently portrayed that way in television drama and films set in that period.
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You, me, us.
but I am not in denial.
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but I am not in denial.
Nor am I
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The Holocaust in Nazi Gemany grew from anti-semitism similar to that being demonstrated in the U K today? The difference is only one of degree?
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The Holocaust in Nazi Gemany grew from anti-semitism similar to that being demonstrated in the U K today?
No.
The antisemitism of Nazi Germany was institutionalised - a part of the state. You don't see anything like that in Britain today. You could say some people are anti semitic but it's only a small number but it is not endemic. Most people in Britain see antisemitism for the nasty thing it is.
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No.
The antisemitism of Nazi Germany was institutionalised - a part of the state. You don't see anything like that in Britain today. You could say some people are anti semitic but it's only a small number but it is not endemic. Most people in Britain see antisemitism for the nasty thing it is.
Although, of course, anyone who criticises Israel in any way must be anti-semitic. (Sarcasm.)
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One doesn't have to be anti-Semitic to criticise Israel, as I often do. Not all Jews approve of the way that country behaves.
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Although, of course, anyone who criticises Israel in any way must be anti-semitic. (Sarcasm.)
That's one of the reasons I posted as I did earler on.
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One doesn't have to be anti-Semitic to criticise Israel, as I often do. Not all Jews approve of the way that country behaves.
Yes. That was my point. I was being sarcastic, because Israel's defenders always accuse critics of being anti-semitic.
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Yes. That was my point. I was being sarcastic, because Israel's defenders always accuse critics of being anti-semitic.
I did get your point, dear.
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No.
The antisemitism of Nazi Germany was institutionalised - a part of the state. You don't see anything like that in Britain today. You could say some people are anti semitic but it's only a small number but it is not endemic. Most people in Britain see antisemitism for the nasty thing it is.
It only became institutionalised after the Nazi's came to power and implemented Hitler's policies - It did not have a public face befotre that?
I don't think so; the Nazi's made use of the public by engineering the public's concept of the Jews as the people who back-stabbed the German Army so that it lost WWI, it was the cause of all Germany's unemployment problems . . .
Yeah - bury your head in the sand, all it needs in the U K is someone who can work the public the waY Hitler and his cronis dd and bingo!
I tru;y hope that that' someone' never appears., I really and truly do!
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It only became institutionalised after the Nazi's came to power and implemented Hitler's policies - It did not have a public face befotre that?
I don't think so; the Nazi's made use of the public by engineering the public's concept of the Jews as the people who back-stabbed the German Army so that it lost WWI, it was the cause of all Germany's unemployment problems . . .
Yeah - bury your head in the sand, all it needs in the U K is someone who can work the public the waY Hitler and his cronis dd and bingo!
I tru;y hope that that' someone' never appears., I really and truly do!
That nasty piece of work, Tommy Robinson, appeals to the very far right UKIP supporters.
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Yes. That was my point. I was being sarcastic, because Israel's defenders always accuse critics of being anti-semitic.
This is false. We recently had a disagreement in which I defended Israel, but I never accused you of being anti Semitic.
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It only became institutionalised after the Nazi's came to power and implemented Hitler's policies - It did not have a public face befotre that?
I don't think so; the Nazi's made use of the public by engineering the public's concept of the Jews as the people who back-stabbed the German Army so that it lost WWI, it was the cause of all Germany's unemployment problems . . .
Yeah - bury your head in the sand, all it needs in the U K is someone who can work the public the waY Hitler and his cronis dd and bingo!
I tru;y hope that that' someone' never appears., I really and truly do!
Nobody said it could never change, but the situation now in the UK was compared to the situation in Nazi Germany. It’s patently absurd to compare modern Britain with Nazi Germany in this way.
We are not even close to gassing the Muslims and I would say there is more antipathy towards them than Jews at the moment.
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This is false. We recently had a disagreement in which I defended Israel, but I never accused you of being anti Semitic.
Well, obviously I was speaking loosely, but they often do so.
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Nobody said it could never change, but the situation now in the UK was compared to the situation in Nazi Germany. It’s patently absurd to compare modern Britain with Nazi Germany in this way.
I'm not sure that that was the comparison being made. The post said about Nazi Germany growing out of antisemitism so surely is saying that antisemitism within society allowed the growth of the Nazis. I don't think antisemitism is as common in Britain today as it was in Germany before the growth of the Nazis yet but it could become so if its not addressed. That surely is part of the Warning From History when it comes to the Nazis.
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I'm not sure that that was the comparison being made. The post said about Nazi Germany growing out of antisemitism so surely is saying that antisemitism within society allowed the growth of the Nazis. I don't think antisemitism is as common in Britain today as it was in Germany before the growth of the Nazis yet but it could become so if its not addressed. That surely is part of the Warning From History when it comes to the Nazis.
Racism in general needs to be addressed in this country.
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Well, obviously I was speaking loosely, but they often do so.
How often? I've seen it done, but my experience is that it happens infrequently. You seem to imply it is a tactic more used than not used.
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How often? I've seen it done, but my experience is that it happens infrequently. You seem to imply it is a tactic more used than not used.
I've seen it quite a lot.
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Racism in general needs to be addressed in this country.
Yes it does.
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Yes it does.
How do you suggest?
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How do you suggest?
I don't know.
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I don't know.
If there is a particular problem with racism in the UK today, then we shoud look at how that happened and change it?
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If there is a particular problem with racism in the UK today, then we shoud look at how that happened and change it?
Yes we should.
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Just how close is the rampant anti-semitism of the Labour Party to Holocaust denial?
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Just how close is the rampant anti-semitism of the Labour Party to Holocaust denial?
I am not sure that those accused of anti-semitism are necessarily Holocaust deniers.
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I am not sure that those accused of anti-semitism are necessarily Holocaust deniers.
I would agree with that Lr
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Just how close is the rampant anti-semitism of the Labour Party to Holocaust denial?
There is little or no anti-semitism in the Labour party. this is a vile smear by Zionists trying, as ever, to confuse criticism of Israel with anti-semitism, and politicalenemies of Labour, using it as a convenient stick to beat Labour with.
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Well said, Steve. I was going to ask for evidence of "rampant" anti-semitism in Labour.
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Moderator:
A derail discussing homosexuality has been removed, especially since the derail included a post that was reported. We'll review the other posts in the derail to determine whether or not they could comprise a separate thread.
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Whilst I strongly disapprove of the behaviour of the Israeli Government, it is very wrong to tar all Jews with the same brush. Not all Jews are unpleasant Zionists.
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I would agree with that Lr
If I said Black was the opposite of White, you would agree with anyone who did not agree with me!
Talk about predictable!
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If I said Black was the opposite of White, you would agree with anyone who did not agree with me!
Talk about predictable!
Not following. Did you say all anti-semites were holocaust deniers? I can't see that you did. So your point above makes no sense.
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Whilst I strongly disapprove of the behaviour of the Israeli Government, it is very wrong to tar all Jews with the same brush. Not all Jews are unpleasant Zionists.
A Zionist is simply somebody who believes Jews have a right to a homeland in what they call their spiritual home i.e. the Levant. Given that that request has been satisfied, they are effectively just people who do not want Israel to be erased. What is unpleasant about that?
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A Zionist is simply somebody who believes Jews have a right to a homeland in what they call their spiritual home i.e. the Levant. Given that that request has been satisfied, they are effectively just people who do not want Israel to be erased. What is unpleasant about that?
"Unpleasant Zionists" could be seen as a sub-set of all Zionists.
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"Unpleasant Zionists" could be seen as a sub-set of all Zionists.
Practically any sufficiently large group of people has a subset that is unpleasant.
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If I said Black was the opposite of White, you would agree with anyone who did not agree with me!
Talk about predictable!
Mr Owl,
next time you throw your toys out of your pram you'll have to pick 'em up yourself :-*
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Mr Owl,
next time you throw your toys out of your pram you'll have to pick 'em up yourself :-*
If you think that the post to which the above is a response is "throwing my toys out of the pram" you are sorely mistaken and obviously do not know me as well as you sem to think that you do.
When I last DID throw my toys out of the pram I got banned for a period, the length of which I forget, but I learnt that lesson, and you and your posts are not worth getting Moderated again no matter how witty and clever you might think you are.
Just to make sure I don't get Moderated again, any conversation between me and thee ends here!
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If you think that the post to which the above is a response is "throwing my toys out of the pram" you are sorely mistaken and obviously do not know me as well as you sem to think that you do.
When I last DID throw my toys out of the pram I got banned for a period, the length of which I forget, but I learnt that lesson, and you and your posts are not worth getting Moderated again no matter how witty and clever you might think you are.
Just to make sure I don't get Moderated again, any conversation between me and thee ends here!
Mr Owl,
have a nice day sir.
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Mr Owl,
have a nice day sir.
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PS see BIble first thread for an errata to this post!
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Mr Owl,
I have no idea what you are trying to say . Do you want to have another go ?