Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sriram on February 03, 2019, 04:43:40 PM
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Hi everyone,
Just an odd question that came up in my mind as I was discussing the subject with someone. Thought I would ask it here also.
How many of you would like to be a youngster (say 15-20 years old) now. What I mean is, how many would like to be starting their life in today's world as we see it today? If yes, why and if not, why not?
I am not talking about just being young and healthy. All of us would like that. I am referring to starting life in today's world.
Just a question.
Cheers.
Sriram
PS: I am assuming there are no youngsters here. I could be wrong.
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Yes - people are healthier and richer than ever before.
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I am in my second childhood. :D
No I don't think I would like to be a youngster today, especially with the global warming issue looking more calamitous with each decade which passes. :o Today's young people are going to have to work longer than those of my generation, money is likely to be tighter and affording to buy a home of their own much harder to achieve.
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My observation of today’s teenagers from the limited subset that I have known is that they are quite a bit more responsible than in my day as a teenager. That and the fact that going to university in my country now saddles you with a pretty big financial debt whereas, in my day, it was effectively free, makes me think it is no fun being a young person now.
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I don't know how youngsters view the world today, but having lived through the 50's, 60's and 70's, I personally wouldn't like to be starting my life at this time.
The world is too crowded, no cultural moorings, unstable relationships, no sense of belonging, too individualistic, climate change, future uncertain, a feeling of 'what's the use', nothing to look forward to......and many other issues. The few youngsters I interact with seem to share this pessimism in spite of being young.
Growing up, getting a good job, marrying, having children and bringing them up to have a good future.....seems a uphill and thankless task under current circumstances.
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How many of you would like to be a youngster (say 15-20 years old) now. What I mean is, how many would like to be starting their life in today's world as we see it today? If yes, why and if not, why not
I share your pessimism to a large degree, I don't think I would want to be a teenager today. The reality will vary enormously depending on where you are a teenager but the writing on the wall points to an uncertain future in an increasingly hostile world. We are creating a perfect storm with increasing population, increasing per capita energy consumption yet dwindling resources, decreasing biodiversity all to be played out and negotiated in a changed world with changed weather patterns. History will probably see the post war period as a golden period when we recovered from war and blossomed in many ways but our economic models of indefinite growth are unsustainable and it is the future generations that are going to pay the price for our 'business as usual' shortsightedness.
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It is somewhat paradoxical. On the one hand everything is so easy nowadays compared to earlier decades. There is plenty of money, opportunities, global mixing, technology and conveniences.
Maybe things are too easy. A person gets everything ...food, job, sex, comforts, name and fame on social media....very easily. No need to dream, work hard and wait for it.
On the other hand there is this sense of hopelessness. 'What's the use' feeling. Nothing to look forward to.
Religion lent some meaning to life...which guys like yourselves have bludgeoned away. What is left when all the eating and sleeping around is done?!
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It is somewhat paradoxical. On the one hand everything is so easy nowadays compared to earlier decades. There is plenty of money, opportunities, global mixing, technology and conveniences.
Maybe things are too easy. A person gets everything ...food, job, sex, comforts, name and fame on social media....very easily. No need to dream, work hard and wait for it.
On the other hand there is this sense of hopelessness. 'What's the use' feeling. Nothing to look forward to.
Religion lent some meaning to life...which guys like yourselves have bludgeoned away. What is left when all the eating and sleeping around is done?!
Much too pessimistic. I don't see a sense of hopelessness, any more than say 50 years ago.
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On the Today Programme this morning it was said the teenage self esteem is lower than it has ever been before, and many are considering suicide. :o :o
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Much too pessimistic. I don't see a sense of hopelessness, any more than say 50 years ago.
50 years ago, people would have been less inclined to admit to it, stiff upper lip and all that.
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50 years ago, people would have been less inclined to admit to it, stiff upper lip and all that.
1968? Doubt if anyone bothered to ask. Everything was possible .. we've screwed it up since.
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50 years ago, people would have been less inclined to admit to it, stiff upper lip and all that.
I should damn well think so too. Seriously - there's a lot to be said for putting a brave face on things; it does actually help you cope. People who go into too-much-information mode and blub embarrassingly all over the shop get into a tail-spin of depression. Obviously, you can take the stiff-upper-lip too far, but that's true of almost anything that's good in proportion. There's not much danger of it these days, with the fashionable but harmful "don't bottle up your emotions" crap all around us. I'm a firm believer in bottling up the emotions. Emotions are like tomato ketchup: best kept in a bottle and let out in carefully controlled amounts. If you let it all out at once, you just make a godawful mess that's no use to anybody. Emotional diarrhoea is folk-psychology, not real psychology. I think real psychologists recommend a degree of emotional restraint.
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/05/youth-unhappiness-uk-doubles-in-past-10-years
The number of young people in the UK who say they do not believe that life is worth living has doubled in the last decade, amid a sense of overwhelming pressure from social media which is driving feelings of inadequacy, new research suggests.
In 2009, only 9% of 16-25-year-olds disagreed with the statement that “life is really worth living”, but that has now risen to 18%. More than a quarter also disagree that that their life has a sense of purpose, according to a YouGov survey of 2,162 people for the Prince’s Trust, a charity that helps 11 to 30-year-olds into education, training and work. Youth happiness levels have fallen most sharply over the last decade in respect of relationships with friends and emotional health, the survey found, while satisfaction with issues like money and accommodation have remained steady.
Though, it seems to me, it is just wrong to think that life has a purpose and could ever be "worth living" - rather than a series of random events that you can make what you like of.
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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/05/youth-unhappiness-uk-doubles-in-past-10-years
Though, it seems to me, it is just wrong to think that life has a purpose and could ever be "worth living" - rather than a series of random events that you can make what you like of.
It has whatever purpose we give it.
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No. I enjoyed my youth, have very happy memories but also like being in my late fifties. I can't go back, why would I want to? Life is good now, I don't feel much different frankly & don't fear death. Some times are better than others but that's the same for all. My children are enjoying life and I''m glad of that.
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I should damn well think so too. Seriously - there's a lot to be said for putting a brave face on things; it does actually help you cope. People who go into too-much-information mode and blub embarrassingly all over the shop get into a tail-spin of depression. Obviously, you can take the stiff-upper-lip too far, but that's true of almost anything that's good in proportion. There's not much danger of it these days, with the fashionable but harmful "don't bottle up your emotions" crap all around us. I'm a firm believer in bottling up the emotions. Emotions are like tomato ketchup: best kept in a bottle and let out in carefully controlled amounts. If you let it all out at once, you just make a godawful mess that's no use to anybody. Emotional diarrhoea is folk-psychology, not real psychology. I think real psychologists recommend a degree of emotional restraint.
Too many generalizations here for my taste. I worked for 30 years as a psychotherapist, and learned to take each client as is. Recipes don't help.
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I should damn well think so too. Seriously - there's a lot to be said for putting a brave face on things; it does actually help you cope. People who go into too-much-information mode and blub embarrassingly all over the shop get into a tail-spin of depression. Obviously, you can take the stiff-upper-lip too far, but that's true of almost anything that's good in proportion. There's not much danger of it these days, with the fashionable but harmful "don't bottle up your emotions" crap all around us. I'm a firm believer in bottling up the emotions. Emotions are like tomato ketchup: best kept in a bottle and let out in carefully controlled amounts. If you let it all out at once, you just make a godawful mess that's no use to anybody. Emotional diarrhoea is folk-psychology, not real psychology. I think real psychologists recommend a degree of emotional restraint.
Our happiness, or otherwise is largely a matterof perceptions, surely. If I am living in poverty that is only a source of misery because we normally view poverty as a relative thing. We measure ourselves and our hopes and aspirations against those of our peers and we are miserable if we know that others are doing better or that there is a better life to be had. A lot of angst youngsters feel results from social media which means they have a reference group to compare themselves to that is many times larger than in all previous forms of society. I can understand that if you see your peers (apparently) all being glamorous and successful that is going to be a downer.
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Our happiness, or otherwise is largely a matterof perceptions, surely. If I am living in poverty that is only a source of misery because we normally view poverty as a relative thing. We measure ourselves and our hopes and aspirations against those of our peers and we are miserable if we know that others are doing better or that there is a better life to be had. A lot of angst youngsters feel results from social media which means they have a reference group to compare themselves to that is many times larger than in all previous forms of society. I can understand that if you see your peers (apparently) all being glamorous and successful that is going to be a downer.
Happiness is relative. There are many people who feel they were happier when they were relatively poor but aspiring to be rich, then when they were actually rich. Hope and motivation are important for happiness. Something to live and work for. The journey is more important than the destination.
Women were an important source of motivation and happiness for man (and possibly the other way around too). Now I find youngsters feeling apprehensive while dealing with the opposite sex. Perhaps feminism and #MeToo have something to do with it. There is too much thought in it. The spontaneous romance
and relationship seem to be missing.
Family was another source of motivation and happiness. Many youngsters don't even want that sort of commitment.
The state of the planet, of course, doesn't give much hope.
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Now I find youngsters feeling apprehensive while dealing with the opposite sex. Perhaps feminism and #MeToo have something to do with it.
When I was a teenager, feeling apprehensive when dealing with the opposite sex was pretty much the norm. I suspect it was the case in my parents' and grandparents' day too.
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When I was a teenager in the 60s I don't remember having any apprehension around the male of the species. I regarded myself as every bit as equal to them, and expected them to treat me as so.
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When I was a teenager, feeling apprehensive when dealing with the opposite sex was pretty much the norm. I suspect it was the case in my parents' and grandparents' day too.
You're probably right, but I think we are talking about two different reasons for apprehension here.
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Moderator A number of posts have been moved to allow discussion of content raised in reports.
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I think social media puts a lot of pressure on kids in this day and age that wasn't there in my youth, or that of my children. My grandchildren 17, 15, 14, 13 and 10 know the dangers, which have been drummed into them by their parents, and they seem to behave in a sensible way in that regard. In fact they sometimes lecture their ancient old granny about being careful not for fall prey to the scam merchants lying in wait for the elderly on-line. They no doubt think I am too senile to have worked that out for myself. ;D
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Society and the environment we live in are changing so fast that it is impossible to mange them. Bound to end in tears.
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I think I would be ok being a young person in today's environment. I remember feeling lonely and unsure of myself as a teenager as my peers seemed to spend most of their time talking about or obsessing over boys - those they knew or admired from afar, in real life, as well as celebrities - and talking about make-up and parties. I also remember feeling really scared that I wouldn't know how to do my job once I became an adult and had to financially support myself - I felt like I would be completely out of my depth. It didn't help that I didn't know what I wanted to do as a career. Today there are so many more choices career-wise. It's great. And so many more opportunities to try new activities.
Being lonely and unsure of yourself wasn't that bad a feeling and compared to when I was a teenager, today there are so many resources on the internet to answer any questions you might have to help analyse your feelings. Today we talk about stuff like that a lot more - so I think I would have a much better/ healthier/ cheaper coping mechanism today than the coping mechanism I used as a teenager - alcohol.
Easy access to the internet is brilliant for finding out facts and opinions on so many different issues and topics, so that's an improvement from when I was a teenager.
A major downside I can think of for young people today is that everyone is a lot more risk averse, which I think has caused the increase in anxiety that young people seem to experience today, as I think being prevented from risking your life and limbs crushes your spirit.
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I think I would be ok being a young person in today's environment. I remember feeling lonely and unsure of myself as a teenager as my peers seemed to spend most of their time talking about or obsessing over boys - those they knew or admired from afar, in real life, as well as celebrities - and talking about make-up and parties. I also remember feeling really scared that I wouldn't know how to do my job once I became an adult and had to financially support myself - I felt like I would be completely out of my depth. It didn't help that I didn't know what I wanted to do as a career. Today there are so many more choices career-wise. It's great. And so many more opportunities to try new activities.
Being lonely and unsure of yourself wasn't that bad a feeling and compared to when I was a teenager, today there are so many resources on the internet to answer any questions you might have to help analyse your feelings. Today we talk about stuff like that a lot more - so I think I would have a much better/ healthier/ cheaper coping mechanism today than the coping mechanism I used as a teenager - alcohol.
Easy access to the internet is brilliant for finding out facts and opinions on so many different issues and topics, so that's an improvement from when I was a teenager.
A major downside I can think of for young people today is that everyone is a lot more risk averse, which I think has caused the increase in anxiety that young people seem to experience today, as I think being prevented from risking your life and limbs crushes your spirit.
That would be great if that was all the kids were using it for, but I suspect using it for that purpose is way down their list of priorities.
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I should damn well think so too. Seriously - there's a lot to be said for putting a brave face on things; it does actually help you cope. People who go into too-much-information mode and blub embarrassingly all over the shop get into a tail-spin of depression. Obviously, you can take the stiff-upper-lip too far, but that's true of almost anything that's good in proportion. There's not much danger of it these days, with the fashionable but harmful "don't bottle up your emotions" crap all around us. I'm a firm believer in bottling up the emotions. Emotions are like tomato ketchup: best kept in a bottle and let out in carefully controlled amounts. If you let it all out at once, you just make a godawful mess that's no use to anybody. Emotional diarrhoea is folk-psychology, not real psychology. I think real psychologists recommend a degree of emotional restraint.
I agree with some parts of what you said and disagree with others depending on the actual circumstances of the individual situation. I don't think generalsiing, as you have done, is helpful. Some people cope much better by bottling up their emotions and others don't. If a person's goal is to get the job done quickly it may be useful to put your emotions on hold but some people think it is as important, or even more important, to enjoy the process of living rather than just be a useful resource to someone by getting the job done quickly.
Some people are a joy to others precisely because they express themselves as this opens up new, previously unknown perspectives and insights for the person listening.
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That would be great if that was all the kids were using it for, but I suspect using it for that purpose is way down their list of priorities.
I can't speak for how other young people use the internet. If I was young today I doubt I would be that interested in social media once the novelty wore off. I curbed my children's addiction to social media by regularly confiscating their phones on the basis it will lead to addiction.
My eldest daughter has been without a smart phone since mid-October 2018. She was careless and it broke so she had to buy herself a £20 Alcatel while at university. She has a laptop and probably spends more time than she should on the internet watching Netflix rather than studying.
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I can't speak for how other young people use the internet. If I was young today I doubt I would be that interested in social media once the novelty wore off. I curbed my children's addiction to social media by regularly confiscating their phones on the basis it will lead to addiction.
My eldest daughter has been without a smart phone since mid-October 2018. She was careless and it broke so she had to buy herself a £20 Alcatel while at university. She has a laptop and probably spends more time than she should on the internet watching Netflix rather than studying.
I would do the same if my children were young today, which would no doubt make me very popular, NOT!
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I would do the same if my children were young today, which would no doubt make me very popular, NOT!
Popular no, but mine aren't stupid - they might lose their tempers sometimes but concede that addiction to anything is not enjoyable and it's been helpful when I've taken the decision out of their hands.
I regularly hear the woes of operating without a smart phone at university from my elder daughter. I agree it must be frustrating but it's an expensive piece of kit so i don't see the point of replacing it as soon as it gets broken. It's problematic partly because her school friends and her friends/ neighbours in Halls at university seem to get their phones replaced as soon as they break them, so she sometimes loses her mind for a while and equates that with love and care.
I think the Twitter storms on the internet are a problem today for young people - it can be hard work and confusing trying to pick through the spin and half-truths and separate fact from fiction. It could leave you unsure what to think or what principles to prioritise and it makes society seem so fractured and divided.
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Popular no, but mine aren't stupid - they might lose their tempers sometimes but concede that addiction to anything is not enjoyable and it's been helpful when I've taken the decision out of their hands.
I regularly hear the woes of operating without a smart phone at university from my elder daughter. I agree it must be frustrating but it's an expensive piece of kit so i don't see the point of replacing it as soon as it gets broken. ...
Sounds OK, as I think the biggest problem is internet addiction. My two took charge of buying their own phones whilst still at school and their lives are dominated by the internet. Nearly everything apart from eating and keeping fit is online.
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Sounds OK, as I think the biggest problem is internet addiction. My two took charge of buying their own phones whilst still at school and their lives are dominated by the internet. Nearly everything apart from eating and keeping fit is online.
Mine don't seem to want to get a job to have the cash to buy their own smart phones - they've just made do with second-hand iPhones when someone got a new phone, which in my case was 2016. They don't seem to mind being forced to take a break from the internet - it's a relief I think - and they end up reading books or socialising, which is what I used to do at their age. Though I didn't really connect with the whole make-up and boy-crazy thing a lot of my friends were going through, which is how both of mine seem to feel now as well.
I like that you can read almost anything on the internet these days and look things up in relation to what you are reading (history, politics, science) while you are reading it. I finally got around to reading War and Peace about 10 years ago - on my PC. I think I would enjoy being young now - there are so many opportunities to expand your horizons and less requirement to conform to any particular culture or lifestyle.
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Here s a link relevant to this thread....
Lot of nonsense of course, but shows how some youngsters are thinking.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154287
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A 27-year-old Indian man plans to sue his parents for giving birth to him without his consent.
Mumbai businessman Raphael Samuel told the BBC that it's wrong to bring children into the world because they then have to put up with lifelong suffering.
"There's no point to humanity. So many people are suffering. If humanity is extinct, Earth and animals would be happier. They'll certainly be better off. Also no human will then suffer. Human existence is totally pointless."
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Something Keith might sympathize with, I guess....
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Here s a link relevant to this thread....
Lot of nonsense of course, but shows how some youngsters are thinking.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154287
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A 27-year-old Indian man plans to sue his parents for giving birth to him without his consent.
Mumbai businessman Raphael Samuel told the BBC that it's wrong to bring children into the world because they then have to put up with lifelong suffering.
"There's no point to humanity. So many people are suffering. If humanity is extinct, Earth and animals would be happier. They'll certainly be better off. Also no human will then suffer. Human existence is totally pointless."
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Something Keith might sympathize with, I guess....
YE GODS! ::)
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It is a bit Keith-y tho' I don't think Keith would go so far as to blame and sue his parents.
I wonder if the guy concerned has had a miserable life so far or an ongoing illness but that wouldn't be his parents' fault & the article doesn't say anything like that. How must they feel. I read what they, and he, said but that doesn't show the depth of feeling.
Depression is a horrible thing. He's only 27, his whole life ahead of him. I wouldn't say that to him of course, I'd be inviting more of the same but what I mean is, in a couple of years he could feel much better, accept life has ups and downs & like most people, make the most of the ups.
Poor soul.
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It is a bit Keith-y tho' I don't think Keith would go so far as to blame and sue his parents.
I wonder if the guy concerned has had a miserable life so far or an ongoing illness but that wouldn't be his parents' fault & the article doesn't say anything like that. How must they feel. I read what they, and he, said but that doesn't show the depth of feeling.
Depression is a horrible thing. He's only 27, his whole life ahead of him. I wouldn't say that to him of course, I'd be inviting more of the same but what I mean is, in a couple of years he could feel much better, accept life has ups and downs & like most people, make the most of the ups.
Poor soul.
I don't think we can say he has depression.
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I don't think we can say he has depression.
Indeed. he could be perfectly happy but want to establish a point of principle.
It would be useful to know how much happiness is enough to make life worth the effort.
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I can't speak for how other young people use the internet. If I was young today I doubt I would be that interested in social media once the novelty wore off.
Ha ha. You might as well say you would not be that interested in using the telephone once the novelty wore off.
I curbed my children's addiction to social media by regularly confiscating their phones on the basis it will lead to addiction.
Good one. Have you heard of the concept of forbidden fruit?
My eldest daughter has been without a smart phone since mid-October 2018. She was careless and it broke so she had to buy herself a £20 Alcatel while at university. She has a laptop and probably spends more time than she should on the internet watching Netflix rather than studying.
And when I was at University I spent more time than I should in the bar rather than studying. I think watching Netflix is more healthy.
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In this context here is an experiment conducted through the 1950's and 60's by John Calhuon. This has been mentioned earlier by ekim.
The youtube video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM
Some articles on the same thing...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/06/19/the-researcher-who-loved-rats-and-fueled-our-doomsday-fears/?utm_term=.2c441a079b92
http://www.returnofkings.com/36915/what-humans-can-learn-from-the-mice-utopia-experiment