Religion and Ethics Forum

Religion and Ethics Discussion => Christian Topic => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on February 15, 2019, 12:08:30 PM

Title: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 15, 2019, 12:08:30 PM
Of course he is


https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-birmingham-47228423
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Roses on February 15, 2019, 12:10:54 PM
Of course he is


https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-birmingham-47228423


Did he put a plaster on the injury? ;D
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: wigginhall on February 15, 2019, 12:11:23 PM
How do they know he cured somebody?
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Gordon on February 15, 2019, 12:17:03 PM
The article says this miracle was verified: using what method would be a reasonable question.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: bluehillside Retd. on February 15, 2019, 12:25:27 PM
There was a piece on this on Today (Radio 4) yesterday I think - from what I heard the RC church has to "confirm" two miracles. I was hoping the interviewer would ask how on earth they'd identify a miracle rather than just an outcome for which no medical explanation was at hand at the time of the event. What too I wondered happens when a probable naturalistic explanation is found long after the miracle had been asserted - a fairly commonplace event I'd have thought as science has discovered more and more over the centuries. Do they go back and kick the saint out of the club or something?   

Bizarre stuff indeed. 
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: SusanDoris on February 15, 2019, 06:07:07 PM
I suppose it is remotely possible that it might make one or two RCs think again about the religious system they are involved in and the associated .dogma.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on February 16, 2019, 10:51:57 AM
I suppose it is remotely possible that it might make one or two RCs think again about the religious system they are involved in and the associated .dogma.
Please excuse me but I think ive spotted a bit of humbuggery you might be at the centre of.

Did you not say that the physicist Reverend Wilkinson is better of out of physics.....presumably because he is religious. And yet here you are pontificating on religion.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Roses on February 18, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
There was a piece on this on Today (Radio 4) yesterday I think - from what I heard the RC church has to "confirm" two miracles. I was hoping the interviewer would ask how on earth they'd identify a miracle rather than just an outcome for which no medical explanation was at hand at the time of the event. What too I wondered happens when a probable naturalistic explanation is found long after the miracle had been asserted - a fairly commonplace event I'd have thought as science has discovered more and more over the centuries. Do they go back and kick the saint out of the club or something?   

Bizarre stuff indeed.

It is impossible to confirm the so called 'miracles'. However, the balance of probability is that they didn't happen.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 18, 2019, 02:42:28 PM
It is impossible to confirm the so called 'miracles'. However, the balance of probability is that they didn't happen.
Probability being a methodologically naturalistic concept means your statement is meaningless.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Roses on February 18, 2019, 03:02:49 PM
Probability being a methodologically naturalistic concept means your statement is meaningless.

Ehhhhhhhhh?
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 18, 2019, 03:21:09 PM
Ehhhhhhhhh?
How we calculate probability of causes is based on an assumption of naturalistic causes. Once you are talking about supernatural causes, the method is worthless, as is the claim about miracles, until a method for evaluating them is provided.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on February 18, 2019, 05:08:37 PM
How we calculate probability of causes is based on an assumption of naturalistic causes. Once you are talking about supernatural causes, the method is worthless, as is the claim about miracles, until a method for evaluating them is provided.
Store that response as you might need to repeat it in another couple of months.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: jeremyp on February 18, 2019, 05:21:04 PM
Ehhhhhhhhh?
Ignore him. He just pressed the nuclear button.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Roses on February 18, 2019, 05:23:48 PM
Ignore him. He just pressed the nuclear button.


Oh dear I thought that bright light was the sun! ;D
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Nearly Sane on February 18, 2019, 06:11:39 PM
Ignore him. He just pressed the nuclear button.
Nope, probability is methodologically naturalistic. You don't understand going nuclear.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Sassy on March 24, 2019, 11:52:25 AM
Of course he is


https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-birmingham-47228423
WHY? What good does making him a saint after death do?

Wasn't he already a saint ? Even a priest?

Philippians 4:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.

1 peter 2:5-6 & 9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices,
acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious:
 and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;
 that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;



What a Croc!   No disrespect to the man but it means nothing does it?   
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Roses on March 24, 2019, 11:55:15 AM
WHY? What good does making him a saint after death do?

Wasn't he already a saint ? Even a priest?

Philippians 4:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.

1 peter 2:5-6 & 9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices,
acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious:
 and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;
 that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;



What a Croc!   No disrespect to the man but it means nothing does it?   


Those verses are meaningless, imo.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: jeremyp on March 26, 2019, 12:02:58 PM
Nope, probability is methodologically naturalistic. You don't understand going nuclear.
You deployed an argument that renders all discussion on the subject meaningless.

Probability, by the way, is a mathematical concept.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Walt Zingmatilder on March 26, 2019, 01:20:47 PM

Those verses are meaningless, imo.
And that edifies us how exactly? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Roses on March 26, 2019, 01:53:16 PM
And that edifies us how exactly? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???


Those verses aren't edifying.
Title: Re: Cardinal Newman - on way to sainthood
Post by: Steve H on May 15, 2019, 10:08:29 AM
Reverend Wilkinson
Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Wilkinson, or Reverend Mr/etc Wilkinson if you want to be very formal, or Reverend John/Jane Wilkinson, or Reverend J.Wilkinson, but NOT REVEREND WILKINSON! "Reverend Surname" is WRONG, no matter how common it has become in these barbaric times.