Religion and Ethics Forum
General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Nearly Sane on February 18, 2019, 10:47:59 AM
-
Insert your own adjective for the 7 MPs who have left Labour
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47278902
-
Insert your own adjective for the 7 MPs who have left Labour
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47278902
Talking of which, how is the tory Faragist rebellion going? Is it comparable?
-
Talking of which, how is the tory Faragist rebellion going? Is it comparable?
Given they haven't left, no
-
Given they haven't left, no
I think some these people effectively left months ago. Ummuna may even have represented a bout of constipation.
Good luck to him though and more power since he has eventually if all too late found some cohones.
-
I remember the 'gang of four' stuff doing the same thing to a divided Labour party with an inept leader. The result, unfortunately, was two more Thatcher governments.
-
If Corbyn wasn't such a limp lettuce maybe the Labour Party would have more clout. He hasn't done the party any favours where Brexit is concerned. I wonder if there will be a Leadership challenge?
-
I remember the 'gang of four' stuff doing the same thing to a divided Labour party with an inept leader. The result, unfortunately, was two more Thatcher governments.
Well yes, and then again no. If it hadn't been for the Falklands, it may all have been different.
-
If Corbyn wasn't such a limp lettuce maybe the Labour Party would have more clout. He hasn't done the party any favours where Brexit is concerned. I wonder if there will be a Leadership challenge?
I'm still suspicious of the ''if it wasn't for Corbyn'' tendency.
My take is that many still feel themselves in the middle of the tory turn of the political cycle with Brexit as something which will blow away. Ummuna even feels relaxed enough about it all to form a breakaway party.
-
I don't really get what the 7 will do now. Support austerity?
-
I'm still suspicious of the ''if it wasn't for Corbyn'' tendency.
My take is that many still feel themselves in the middle of the tory turn of the political cycle with Brexit as something which will blow away. Ummuna even feels relaxed enough about it all to form a breakaway party.
While I'm not convinced that a different leader would make that much difference, Corbyn's very low approval ratings cannot be helping. T
-
I don't really get what the 7 will do now. Support austerity?
I don't see that as likely - the driving force seems to be the second vote, and the narrative of anti-Semitism. It's that with Luciana Berger leaving that's going to be the story,
-
One crucial point is if they will stand candidates in marginal seats. It's a happy Tory day.
-
While I'm not convinced that a different leader would make that much difference, Corbyn's very low approval ratings cannot be helping. T
Yes but as we know 'approval' did not help Miliband. The country after all went quite hard antilabour and don't quite see the gravity of Brexit.
On the other hand Jez has looked pretty past it lately and what with the tories, a new leader could turn it round. He can't possibly make 2022 I would have thought.
-
Yes but as we know 'approval' did not help Miliband. The country after all went quite hardly antilabour and don't quite see the gravity of Brexit.
On the other hand Jez has looked pretty past it lately and what with the tories, a new leader could turn it round. He can't possibly make 2022 I would have thought.
But lack of approval is still problematic, and Milliband didn't exactly have high approval, it's just that Corbyn's is currently in the toilet.
-
One crucial point is if they will stand candidates in marginal seats. It's a happy Tory day.
Though we then do have to take into account the new Farage party.
-
But lack of approval is still problematic, and Milliband didn't exactly have high approval, it's just that Corbyn's is currently in the toilet.
Then people are just more honest about Labour than all the cruel voter lying that went on prior to Miliband's demise.
Do you see Corbyn's popularity as a function of Corbyn or on the ingrained opposition to lefties coupled with fucking ignorance about Brexit and the goal of austerity by the voters?
-
And here in the anti racism side, Angela Smith on people with 'funny tinge'
https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeSegalov/status/1097487967730483201
-
I see they have the approval of Katie Hopkins.
-
New name: the Funny Tinge Party. All tints accepted.
-
And politics as performance art continues
https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1097477222737227777
-
Keep seeing the argument that this has decreased the chances of a 2nd referendum, as May will feel emboldened to squeeze her troops, so that they cave in and support her deal. Maybe, too many variables to predict.
-
Let's face it a party for Non Tories was never going to work.
-
Well, a party for non-Tories and non-Labour will struggle. Ask Polly Toynbee.
-
Well, a party for non-Tories and non-Labour will struggle. Ask Polly Toynbee.
LOL
-
I remember the 'gang of four' stuff doing the same thing to a divided Labour party with an inept leader. The result, unfortunately, was two more Thatcher governments.
Nope. Not unless you are saying that the Gang of Four might have ousted Michael Foot and been good enough to negate the positive boost that Thatcher gained by beating th Argentine Junta and Arthur Scargill.
-
Insert your own adjective for the 7 MPs who have left Labour
The Secret Seven.
-
Nope. Not unless you are saying that the Gang of Four might have ousted Michael Foot and been good enough to negate the positive boost that Thatcher gained by beating th Argentine Junta and Arthur Scargill.
That argument works for 1983 as Foot was already ensconced as leader. But let's not forget that Foot resigned straight after the 83 election.
So in a game of 'what if' had the Gang of Four not set up the SDP we might have seen David Owen, rather than Neil Kinnock, take over as Labour leader in 83. Had that been the case then perhaps the complexion of the 87 election result might have been significantly different.
-
That argument works for 1983 as Foot was already ensconced as leader. But let's not forget that Foot resigned straight after the 83 election.
So in a game of 'what if' had the Gang of Four not set up the SDP we might have seen David Owen, rather than Neil Kinnock, take over as Labour leader in 83. Had that been the case then perhaps the complexion of the 87 election result might have been significantly different.
Not convinced it would have been that different. Not saying you are wrong but 87 didn't feel that close.
-
Not convinced it would have been that different. Not saying you are wrong but 87 didn't feel that close.
Neither 83 nor 87 were close - but that is in part because the non Tory vote was horribly split.
83:
Conservative - 42.4%
Labour - 27.6%
Alliance - 25.4%
83:
Conservative - 42.2%
Labour - 30.8%
Alliance - 22.6%
David Owen at the time was a very charismatic and effective leader - had he been leader of the Labour party in 87 we might have seen a non tory vote split of more like 40 to 13.
But hey, who knows - it's ancient history, but fun to speculate.
-
Neither 83 nor 87 were close - but that is in part because the non Tory vote was horribly split.
83:
Conservative - 42.4%
Labour - 27.6%
Alliance - 25.4%
83:
Conservative - 42.2%
Labour - 30.8%
Alliance - 22.6%
David Owen at the time was a very charismatic and effective leader - had he been leader of the Labour party in 87 we might have seen a non tory vote split of more like 40 to 13.
But hey, who knows - it's ancient history, but fun to speculate.
Except he lost votes from 83 to 87.
-
Nope. Not unless you are saying that the Gang of Four might have ousted Michael Foot and been good enough to negate the positive boost that Thatcher gained by beating th Argentine Junta and Arthur Scargill.
Much though I loathed Scarghill and McGahey, There were to many negatives involved in defeating them for any rejoicing.
We're still dealing with the negatives in my town.
-
Much though I loathed Scarghill and McGahey, There were to many negatives involved in defeating them for any rejoicing.
We're still dealing with the negatives in my town.
Which is true but overall Thatcher got a boost from beating Galtieri and Scargill which was nothing to do with the SDP
-
Except he lost votes from 83 to 87.
Because we'd gone beyond 'peak' Alliance and Kinnock wasn't Foot. Question is whether Owen would have been more electorally favourable for Labour than Kinnock.
-
Which is true but overall Thatcher got a boost from beating Galtieri and Scargill which was nothing to do with the SDP
Thatcher got a massive boost from the Falklands. She got no boost at all from beating the minors. In fact her lowest polling in the 83-87 electoral cycle was in the summer and autumn of 85 just after she'd 'won' against Scargill.
-
Because we'd gone beyond 'peak' Alliance and Kinnock wasn't Foot. Question is whether Owen would have been more electorally favourable for Labour than Kinnock.
who knows. He didn't gain votes so somehow you argue he would have gained more than Kinnock? And that's assuming he could have been elected to leader of the Labour party.
-
Thatcher got a massive boost from the Falklands. She got no boost at all from beating the minors. In fact her lowest polling in the 83-87 electoral cycle was in the summer and autumn of 85 just after she'd 'won' against Scargill.
I thought the minors were who May was fighting against. The myth of Thatcher gained from the miners' strike. It gave her an addition to what her core vote thought.
-
who knows. He didn't gain votes so somehow you argue he would have gained more than Kinnock?
As Labour leader.
And that's assuming he could have been elected to leader of the Labour party.
True - he may not have done.
-
And here in the anti racism side, Angela Smith on people with 'funny tinge'
https://mobile.twitter.com/MikeSegalov/status/1097487967730483201
Apparently she was responding to Ash Sarkar, another guest on the same programme that uses a panel format, calling her family "pinkish"?!?. Naive - yup, stupid - indeed, but this is a classic case of needing to see the context.
-
It appears that they are not a political party but are in fact a private business. I got this from a blogger I follow elsewhere. He's never supplied false info before (AFAIK) but I haven't verified the allegation elsewhere, yet:
https://tinyurl.com/yy6vszol
They do sound a somewhat unusual, unsuited and incoherent set of politicians from the descriptions given. I post this just for your info.
I can't comment on politics anymore. I just do not understand things political at all.
I spend a lot of time looking at clouds. It is much more rewarding.
-
In other news - on the same day that the Labour party lost Chuka Umunna, Chris Leslie, Luciana Berger et al they have apparently just readmitted Derek Hatton - you couldn't make it up.
-
It appears that they are not a political party ...
True - but they have never claimed to be. Currently they are a group of independent MPs - they are not a political party. In time they may form one, but it is a bit harsh to castigate them for not being something they have never claimed to be.
-
True - but they have never claimed to be. Currently they are a group of independent MPs - they are not a political party. In time they may form one, but it is a bit harsh to castigate them for not being something they have never claimed to be.
As I said, I've given up. Been a labour supporter all my life and I've thrown in the towel. That they are all conspiring to make a complete fuck up of opposition is totally depressing. The breakaway group are as self serving as the rest of the bastards.
I never thought I would get to the stage where I would voice that oft-expressed sentiment of the "common person" but they are all in it for themselves.
We need a revolution and heads on spikes.
-
As I said, I've given up. Been a labour supporter all my life and I've thrown in the towel. That they are all conspiring to make a complete fuck up of opposition is totally depressing. The breakaway group are as self serving as the rest of the bastards.
I never thought I would get to the stage where I would voice that oft-expressed sentiment of the "common person" but they are all in it for themselves.
We need a revolution and heads on spikes.
Then I suggest you don't pay heed to someone who calls themselves Another Angry Voice who comes up with the ludicrous notion that Chris Leslie is a 'hard right austerity fetishist' :o John Redwood -yes, Chris Leslie, not in a million years.
-
Wonder if any tories will join them over the next couple of days as rumours are suggesting.
-
83:
Conservative - 42.4%
Labour - 27.6%
Alliance - 25.4%
The 83 result must be the most clear cut indication of the totally undemocratic nature of our current FPTP 'democratic' system.
Labour gained 27.6% of the vote and won 209 seats in the commons
The Alliance won 25.4% of the vote and won 23 seats in the commons
Does not compute :(
-
More Labour MPs are thinking of joining the seven.
-
But they have Derek Hatton back ;)
-
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/19/brexit-racism-independent-group-gang-of-seven
-
But they have Derek Hatton back ;)
They must be desperate!
-
They must be desperate!
You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/19/the-return-of-king-rat-derek-hatton-marks-a-new-low-for-labour?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR1mIbqONQob4JW7Z0q8bhU_iQ6ZY5BPDL0ED4Q-Ojrq6r1U9BTWhX1AfZo
-
Sure this is will have a big impact...not. The problem with Labour isn't antisemitism or brexit, but that it ceased to be a true labour movement a long time ago.
-
And after all why would you care about anti semitism.
-
And after all why would you care about anti semitism.
Eh?
-
Eh?
What do you think about Jewish people?
-
What do you think about Jewish people?
Same as any other people, no one people is inherently better or worse than any other. My opinion of Judaism and Israel, however, aren't very high. So what's your point?
-
Anyway, you haven't addressed my point as to why the Labour party has lost relevance and why any breakaway is irrelevant until they address that point too.
-
Same as any other people, no one people is inherently better or worse than any other. My opinion of Judaism and Israel, however, aren't very high. So what's your point?
Really? Didn't ask about Judaism or Israel. Tell me about what you think about the Rothschilds.
-
Anyway, you haven't addressed my point as to why the Labour party has lost relevance and why any breakaway is irrelevant until they address that point too.
That was an assertion.
-
Really? Didn't ask about Judaism or Israel. Tell me about what you think about the Rothschilds.
Too much money, too much influence. Now, have you actually got a point? If not, move along, pal. I'm not going to take the bait. You're wasting your time.
-
8 now.
-
Too much money, too much influence. Now, have you actually got a point? If not, move along, pal. I'm not going to take the bait. You're wasting your time.
fair enough
-
There are now 11 in the breakaway group, three Tory MPs have joined them, Sarah Wollaston, Heidi Allen and Anna Soubry.
-
I have to say that other than getting publicity I'm failing to se the point of the Indies. I don't understand how you can leave the Labour party, say that you might return, and then work with Tory rebels in the same group.
-
I think some people will be attracted to them, but in elections they will get flattened by FPTP. And maybe the Tories will win next time.
-
I think some people will be attracted to them, but in elections they will get flattened by FPTP. And maybe the Tories will win next time.
Seen some polling which puts them at 14%, which given they aren't a party, and don't have any policies other than having another vote on Brexit is both quite impressive, and a scary comment about UK politics. The predicted outcome on the polling is 364 seats for the Tories.
-
Seen some polling which puts them at 14%, which given they aren't a party, and don't have any policies other than having another vote on Brexit is both quite impressive, and a scary comment about UK politics. The predicted outcome on the polling is 364 seats for the Tories.
well we've all had experience of the polls , to be fair they made a great job of my sisters wet room .
-
well we've all had experience of the polls , to be fair they made a great job of my sisters wet room .
Badum tish. ;D ;D
-
well we've all had experience of the polls , to be fair they made a great job of my sisters wet room .
And to quote Not the Nine O'Clock News 'The only good poll is a deed poll'
-
In other news - on the same day that the Labour party lost Chuka Umunna, Chris Leslie, Luciana Berger et al they have apparently just readmitted Derek Hatton - you couldn't make it up.
But not for long
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-suspended-labour-party-15861929?fbclid=IwAR3NYd1bHQAe4QLMkHVE6wdQumwut7utkmXmsJt6sRPzpDuilfJlBn-veqk
-
Mess of a web page. What was he suspended for?
-
Mess of a web page. What was he suspended for?
Some tweet from 2012.
-
Mess of a web page. What was he suspended for?
Probably for being Derek Hatton...which is as good a reason as any.
-
Probably for being Derek Hatton...which is as good a reason as any.
It is pretty good.
-
I see another Labour MP, Ian Austin, has left the party.
-
Mess of a web page. What was he suspended for?
My Dad’s theory is that he was reinstated because the people who made the decision were not born when he was doing his stuff in Liverpool.
I wasn’t a massive fan of Neil Kinnock but this was magnificent
https://youtu.be/v9d7ahKWcsM
That is true leadership.
-
Clowns to the left, jokers to the right, and idiots in the middle it would seem
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-changeorg-taking-legal-advice-14203807.amp?__twitter_impression=true
-
People's Front of Change Uk
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-change-uk-split-six-16253287