Religion and Ethics Forum

General Category => Politics & Current Affairs => Topic started by: Roses on April 03, 2019, 11:48:07 AM

Title: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 03, 2019, 11:48:07 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47798717

Whilst I don't rate Corbyn much, if this story is true it is very wrong indeed. >:(
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 03, 2019, 07:40:50 PM
Let's see what happens with the investigation. But too many in the Tory party have used rhetoric which makes this unsurprising, May, Cameron, Johnson, Javid amongst others.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 03, 2019, 07:44:00 PM
It’s clearly meant to be a joke. It was ill advised to publish it on social media but otherwise, there are far more important things to get outraged about.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 03, 2019, 07:48:39 PM
It’s clearly meant to be a joke. It was ill advised to publish it on social media but otherwise, there are far more important things to get outraged about.
It doesn't work given the army is meant to be apolitical, it doesn't work as it will justify those such as Jo Cox's murderer, it doesn't work given that in the 70s there was reasonably series planning for a coup.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 03, 2019, 08:39:34 PM
It doesn't work given the army is meant to be apolitical,
The army didn't publish this. Some soldiers did.

Quote
it doesn't work as it will justify those such as Jo Cox's murderer
No it won't.  It justifies Jo Cox's murder exactly as much as me having Alex Ferguson's photo taped to my dartboard in the 1990's justifies the murder of any football manager.

Also, what about all of these (https://www.google.com/search?q=margaret+thatcher+effigy&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA6JDQ1rThAhXfWxUIHZ7tC0kQ_AUIDigB&biw=1282&bih=1042)? Are they justifying Jo Cox's murder? No reasonable person would look at any of those photos or the video and then decide it was OK to murder an MP. The BBC clearly agrees with me because they published the whole video on their web site.

Quote
it doesn't work given that in the 70s there was reasonably series planning for a coup.
Really? That is such bollocks. Citation needed, I think.

And if these soldiers were planning a coup, do you honestly think they would publish video of them practising? 
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 03, 2019, 09:19:17 PM
The army didn't publish this. Some soldiers did.
No it won't.  It justifies Jo Cox's murder exactly as much as me having Alex Ferguson's photo taped to my dartboard in the 1990's justifies the murder of any football manager.

Also, what about all of these (https://www.google.com/search?q=margaret+thatcher+effigy&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA6JDQ1rThAhXfWxUIHZ7tC0kQ_AUIDigB&biw=1282&bih=1042)? Are they justifying Jo Cox's murder? No reasonable person would look at any of those photos or the video and then decide it was OK to murder an MP. The BBC clearly agrees with me because they published the whole video on their web site.
Really? That is such bollocks. Citation needed, I think.

And if these soldiers were planning a coup, do you honestly think they would publish video of them practising?

Big money off deal on straw you got there
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 04, 2019, 08:13:08 AM
It’s clearly meant to be a joke. It was ill advised to publish it on social media but otherwise, there are far more important things to get outraged about.


Joke or not it was not funny, those concerned are not fit to serve in our armed services. >:(
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Harrowby Hall on April 04, 2019, 09:10:41 AM
There is no evidence in the video that the soldiers were shooting at the picture of Corbyn. The two scenes hav simply been edited together.

And anyway, if the pattern of bullet holes implied by the black spots on the Corbyn image are anything to go by, the soldiers concerned are incompetent and should be put on trench digging duties.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 04, 2019, 10:38:19 AM
There is no evidence in the video that the soldiers were shooting at the picture of Corbyn. The two scenes hav simply been edited together.

And anyway, if the pattern of bullet holes implied by the black spots on the Corbyn image are anything to go by, the soldiers concerned are incompetent and should be put on trench digging duties.

The MoD have confirmed it as genuine. Your scepticism while useful seems incorrect here.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 04, 2019, 07:44:35 PM
Big money off deal on straw you got there
Just calling something a straw man doesn’t mean that it is.

Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 04, 2019, 07:53:52 PM
Just calling something a straw man doesn’t mean that it is.
No but your post was just filled with straw, given it covered stuff that hasn't been said.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 04, 2019, 07:57:20 PM
There is no evidence in the video that the soldiers were shooting at the picture of Corbyn. The two scenes hav simply been edited together.
I don’t think that matters. Even if it is a fake, somebody still edited together and published it on the Internet. If you think jokes about using photos of politicians as target practice is beyond the pale, it doeasn’t really matter whether the footage is faked or real, the only difference is who gets strung up.
Quote
And anyway, if the pattern of bullet holes implied by the black spots on the Corbyn image are anything to go by, the soldiers concerned are incompetent and should be put on trench digging duties.
You’d be surprised at how inaccurate hand guns are over any sort of distance.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 04, 2019, 08:02:45 PM
No but your post was just filled with straw, given it covered stuff that hasn't been said.
No it wasn’t.

You said

A) the army is apolitical, I said that is irrelevant given it was not published by the army

B) it justifies the murder of Jo Cox, I pointed out that is hogwash given that it’s merely an extension of the person you hate taped to a dartboard joke and also, enacting the violent death of politicians you don’t like is really not a new thing

C) there was a serious attempt at a coup in the 70’s, which is frankly laughable and worthy of the derision I gave it.

 If you want to have an honest discussion, engage with the points instead of just lying about my post..
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Nearly Sane on April 04, 2019, 08:25:11 PM
No it wasn’t.

You said

A) the army is apolitical, I said that is irrelevant given it was not published by the army

B) it justifies the murder of Jo Cox, I pointed out that is hogwash given that it’s merely an extension of the person you hate taped to a dartboard joke and also, enacting the violent death of politicians you don’t like is really not a new thing

C) there was a serious attempt at a coup in the 70’s, which is frankly laughable and worthy of the derision I gave it.

 If you want to have an honest discussion, engage with the points instead of just lying about my post..
Shiny, shiny mirror.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 08, 2019, 06:48:31 PM
Shiny, shiny mirror.
I'll take that as an inability to answer the points in question then.

My original post stands: it’s clearly meant to be a joke. It was ill advised to publish it on social media but otherwise, there are far more important things to get outraged about.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 09, 2019, 09:24:44 AM
I'll take that as an inability to answer the points in question then.

My original post stands: it’s clearly meant to be a joke. It was ill advised to publish it on social media but otherwise, there are far more important things to get outraged about.


Even if it was meant as a joke it was in extremely poor taste, the people responsible should be kicked out of the Army, imo.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 09, 2019, 06:51:15 PM

Even if it was meant as a joke it was in extremely poor taste, the people responsible should be kicked out of the Army, imo.
You'd end people's careers over this? I'd say that is an over reaction.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: ad_orientem on April 09, 2019, 07:12:36 PM
I'll take that as an inability to answer the points in question then.

My original post stands: it’s clearly meant to be a joke. It was ill advised to publish it on social media but otherwise, there are far more important things to get outraged about.

Indeed. No different to pinning a picture of someone you dislike to a dartboard.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 10, 2019, 08:26:31 AM
You'd end people's careers over this? I'd say that is an over reaction.


Yes I most certainly would, it was not funny in the least, it was despicable, they are not fit to serve their Queen and country.  I speak as one who doesn't rate Corbyn in the slightest.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 10, 2019, 08:40:23 AM
Indeed. No different to pinning a picture of someone you dislike to a dartboard.

That is wrong too, you have to be pretty pathetic to do that!
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 10, 2019, 07:11:09 PM

Yes I most certainly would, it was not funny in the least, it was despicable, they are not fit to serve their Queen and country.  I speak as one who doesn't rate Corbyn in the slightest.
You would end a career because they couldn’t judge a joke. I think the world would be a better place if people didn’t rush to judgement quite so quickly.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 11, 2019, 08:21:26 AM
You would end a career because they couldn’t judge a joke. I think the world would be a better place if people didn’t rush to judgement quite so quickly.

We are talking about people in the armed forces, who should be above such disgusting nonsense. There was nothing funny about using Corbyn's image for target practice. It could encourage a terrorist to do the same, only for real. >:(
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Udayana on April 11, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
These were paint-ball guns I think, so not really target practice.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 11, 2019, 11:10:47 AM
These were paint-ball guns I think, so not really target practice.

That isn't the point at all.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Aruntraveller on April 11, 2019, 11:16:43 AM
We are talking about people in the armed forces, who should be above such disgusting nonsense. There was nothing funny about using Corbyn's image for target practice. It could encourage a terrorist to do the same, only for real. >:(

You talk about people in the army as if they should hold high principles and be above the general level of behaviour in society. 

I think you are not understanfing the  purpose of the armed forces. It is ultimately to protect us, and if necessary by killing. That it should attract some unpleasant characters should hardly be a surprise. Yes the army could perhaps do more to weed them out, but in reality they don't because they prefer to have some hard bastards in there to do the dirty work, rather than someone like me who would run a mile at the first sound of gunshot.

Your last point is just rubbish, terrorists are way ahead of us in imagining new ways to kill us.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 11, 2019, 11:20:47 AM
You talk about people in the army as if they should hold high principles and be above the general level of behaviour in society. 

I think you are not understanfing the  purpose of the armed forces. It is ultimately to protect us, and if necessary by killing. That it should attract some unpleasant characters should hardly be a surprise. Yes the army could perhaps do more to weed them out, but in reality they don't because they prefer to have some hard bastards in there to do the dirty work, rather than someone like me who would run a mile at the first sound of gunshot.

Your last point is just rubbish, terrorists are way ahead of us in imagining new ways to kill us.


I stand by everything I have said, whether you are in agreement with it or not.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Aruntraveller on April 11, 2019, 11:23:03 AM

I stand by everything I have said, whether you are in agreement with it or not.

I am sure you do, in that respect you and Mrs May are very similar.

All I am saying is that you don't seem to realise the reality of the situation.  Soldiers are not paid to be nice. They are paid to kill.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 11, 2019, 11:25:41 AM
I am sure you do, in that respect you and Mrs May are very similar.

All I am saying is that you don't seem to realise the reality of the situation.  Soldiers are not paid to be nice. They are paid to kill.


They are not paid to put up a poster of a British politician as target practice.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Owlswing on April 11, 2019, 12:15:10 PM

You talk about people in the army as if they should hold high principles and be above the general level of behaviour in society. 

I think you are not understanfing the  purpose of the armed forces. It is ultimately to protect us, and if necessary by killing. That it should attract some unpleasant characters should hardly be a surprise. Yes the army could perhaps do more to weed them out, but in reality they don't because they prefer to have some hard bastards in there to do the dirty work, rather than someone like me who would run a mile at the first sound of gunshot.

Your last point is just rubbish, terrorists are way ahead of us in imagining new ways to kill us.


Agreed.

We need hard bastards in the Army to combat the even nastier bastards they will meet when fighting terrorists.

LR - you are bloody luvcky to have any servicemen/women to stand between you and an enemy, considering what the Govenment is doing to the Paras from Northern Ireland.

During the Aden fighting some idiot in the political arena - the far left - who were supporting the terrorists - wanted to charge any soldier who killed a civilian charged with murder until it was pointed that one of the tenets of the communist credo was to hide terrorists with guns and grenades behind women and children to slow the reaction times of the soldiers and make them easier targets.

LR -Note very carefully - fighting a war is NOT a walk in the park on a sunny Sunday - it breeds a fear such as you, sitting comfortably on your backside at home, will never ever, hopefully, feel or understand, but does wonders for your reflexes, if you live long enough that is.

As to the use of Corbyn's picture - he has demonstrated his support for terroists for years - getting shot by paintballs seems a tame way for soldiers to express their disgust for said support! 
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 11, 2019, 12:17:42 PM
We will have to agree to differ.
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: jeremyp on April 12, 2019, 07:28:18 AM
We are talking about people in the armed forces, who should be above such disgusting nonsense.
Also young men in their twenties who naturally lack judgement.
Quote
There was nothing funny about using Corbyn's image for target practice. It could encourage a terrorist to do the same, only for real. >:(
Really?
Title: Re: Using Corbyn for target practice!
Post by: Roses on April 12, 2019, 08:18:43 AM
Also young men in their twenties who naturally lack judgement. Really?


Not all young men in their 20s lack judgement, nor should they, that is NOT an excuse at all.